| Yet again the Torys 20:22 - Sep 7 with 4650 views | max936 |
go back on their promises, Charlatan's the lot of them, up to the Taxpayers to pay for the Torys mates making fortunes over covid, even though they ballsed the job up over PPE and Track and Trace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk- |  |
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| Yet again the Torys on 10:43 - Sep 8 with 786 views | Catullus |
| Yet again the Torys on 10:12 - Sep 8 by max936 |
Hang on a minute Cat, this isn't about Labour, as to what they may have done this or done that, Tory's been in power for ten yrs, so any blame being apportioned to Labour is null and void.
The point is that loads on this THREAD are missing is that Johnson said in his manifesto that NO TAXES and NO NATIONAL INSURANCE contributions would be increased, that was HIS pledge.
I agree that Covid wasn't foreseen, but the mistakes he made the advice he didn't listen to etc all adds up and that's before we get into the contracts given out to the TORY friends for PPE, Track and Trace etc, the wastage of public money as been astronomical. |
No Max, this is about politicians. Starmer has said he doesn't support this but we all know Labour would have raised taxes too.
People suggesting only the tories would have doen this is party blindness. Either taxes go up or the sytem collapses, unless people were told to pay more themselves. Would anybody prefer it if the cap were taken away and a hard working now retired OAP needing social care had to give up ALL their assets when someone who lived their life on benefits would have to pay nothing?
That doesn't mean that Bojo isn't two faced lying C U next tuesday, of course he is but in this case, what did people expect? We all know manifestos are worthless. Getting all high and mighty about this is pointless, how many manifestos are ever rigidly obeyed? |  |
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| Yet again the Torys on 11:07 - Sep 8 with 774 views | max936 |
| Yet again the Torys on 10:43 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
No Max, this is about politicians. Starmer has said he doesn't support this but we all know Labour would have raised taxes too.
People suggesting only the tories would have doen this is party blindness. Either taxes go up or the sytem collapses, unless people were told to pay more themselves. Would anybody prefer it if the cap were taken away and a hard working now retired OAP needing social care had to give up ALL their assets when someone who lived their life on benefits would have to pay nothing?
That doesn't mean that Bojo isn't two faced lying C U next tuesday, of course he is but in this case, what did people expect? We all know manifestos are worthless. Getting all high and mighty about this is pointless, how many manifestos are ever rigidly obeyed? |
Opinions Cat hey, the hypocrisy, cronyism and nepotism etc in this government is unbelievable, their friends have made fortunes off the back of this pandemic and I can imagine all the back slapping the champers and volovants being quaffed in celebrating their jubilation at the rise in their bank accounts, even though most of what they did was a complete ballsup.
Bet Boris and his butties have been to countless dinner parties, off the back of this, little regard has been given to us little people, probably been laughing at the fact that its us who will pay for it all, it turns my guts.
Yet there's posters on this thread whose first line of defence of the Torys is drag labour into the mix, its laughable.
As much has Labour has got wrong when they were in Government and they have, is of no relevance now.
Anyway, quick cuppa and off down to see my Mrs and Lad at the Hossie, [Post edited 8 Sep 2021 11:08]
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| Yet again the Torys on 12:13 - Sep 8 with 743 views | Gwyn737 |
| Yet again the Torys on 08:27 - Sep 8 by felixstowe_jack |
Please explain.
If you earned the figures you quote you would not pay any NI at all |
The figures are what you pay on each amount as you pass through the threshold.
I'd like to have seen it weighted. [Post edited 8 Sep 2021 14:59]
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| Yet again the Torys on 12:19 - Sep 8 with 742 views | Boundy |
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum anyone who thought that all the furlough money which was handed over and gleefully accepted ( and there were quite a few who I'm sure will be squealing loudly because of the NI raises but were quite happy to screw the tax payer over when accepting it but still working) thought that that money would have to be paid back in one form or another is naive in the extreme . taxpayers always have and always will bear the brunt of our" betters" financial decisions , so I'm afraid its a case of sucking it up . Had PPI, no worries the Banks will pay up ( but the interest on your money of which they make they're vast profits form will more than cover the"penalties" imposed ) | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Yet again the Torys on 13:33 - Sep 8 with 708 views | Flashberryjack |
| Yet again the Torys on 12:19 - Sep 8 by Boundy |
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum anyone who thought that all the furlough money which was handed over and gleefully accepted ( and there were quite a few who I'm sure will be squealing loudly because of the NI raises but were quite happy to screw the tax payer over when accepting it but still working) thought that that money would have to be paid back in one form or another is naive in the extreme . taxpayers always have and always will bear the brunt of our" betters" financial decisions , so I'm afraid its a case of sucking it up . Had PPI, no worries the Banks will pay up ( but the interest on your money of which they make they're vast profits form will more than cover the"penalties" imposed ) |
Where the hell did people think the money was coming from, maybe if Diane Abbott was in charge, she would have sorted our financial problems out without raising taxes. |  |
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| Yet again the Torys on 13:51 - Sep 8 with 698 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Yet again the Torys on 13:33 - Sep 8 by Flashberryjack |
Where the hell did people think the money was coming from, maybe if Diane Abbott was in charge, she would have sorted our financial problems out without raising taxes. |
Diane wants to raise a levy on anyone with assets of more than £5M. The trouble is those assets will get redistributed. If I had £5M+ my kids would get a million each. |  |
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| Yet again the Torys on 13:52 - Sep 8 with 697 views | Catullus |
| Yet again the Torys on 13:33 - Sep 8 by Flashberryjack |
Where the hell did people think the money was coming from, maybe if Diane Abbott was in charge, she would have sorted our financial problems out without raising taxes. |
Exactly my point. Whoever was in government, they would have to have done some kind of furlough scheme and taxes would have to have gone up afterwards to help pay the bill.
My gripe with this is that Bojo has gone about it the wrong way, it shouldn't be on NI but otherwise, did people really think there wouldn't have been some kind of money grab?
Social care took a hammering this last 18 months. Maybe the answer is to stop dumping our families in care homes and look after them more ourselves? Obviously there will be those who need the 24 hour care, who can't be looked after at home but there will be a lot who can. | |
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| Yet again the Torys on 14:57 - Sep 8 with 686 views | monmouth |
COVID meant there had to be tax rises. I just think they’ve chosen the wrong one and, not surprisingly have no real plan. This won’t address social care inane shape or form. Simply fills the NHS hole from COVID at best. Worst government in my lifetime and, by god, that’s saying something. |  |
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| Yet again the Torys on 15:27 - Sep 8 with 675 views | Boundy |
| Yet again the Torys on 14:57 - Sep 8 by monmouth |
COVID meant there had to be tax rises. I just think they’ve chosen the wrong one and, not surprisingly have no real plan. This won’t address social care inane shape or form. Simply fills the NHS hole from COVID at best. Worst government in my lifetime and, by god, that’s saying something. |
and we've had some shockers but this one has to rank as one of if not worse in living memory ., beyond reproach at times. but that's what you get without a credible opposition party(ies) | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Yet again the Torys on 15:34 - Sep 8 with 669 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Yet again the Torys on 13:33 - Sep 8 by Flashberryjack |
Where the hell did people think the money was coming from, maybe if Diane Abbott was in charge, she would have sorted our financial problems out without raising taxes. |
Yes it was always going to happen, so why throw money at Tory pals track and trace for example ?
This huge amount of money should not have been squandered.
In May last year NHS Test and Trace (NHST&T) was set up with a budget of £22 billion. Since then it has been allocated £15 billion more: totalling £37 billion over two years.
The Tory NI is worth … The 1.25 percentage point increase is expected to raise about £12bn which, in the early years.
So …a Track and Trace that was a third smaller would have also covered the cost of Social Care.
For a German comparison, a very crude estimate would therefore suggest that this has cost the federal government of Germany roughly €972 million, or around £834 million. Many times less than Johnson and Dido billed us for.
Stay woke people. |  |
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| Yet again the Torys on 16:56 - Sep 8 with 659 views | max936 |
| Yet again the Torys on 14:57 - Sep 8 by monmouth |
COVID meant there had to be tax rises. I just think they’ve chosen the wrong one and, not surprisingly have no real plan. This won’t address social care inane shape or form. Simply fills the NHS hole from COVID at best. Worst government in my lifetime and, by god, that’s saying something. |
Spot on Monny, everything seems to get done on a wing and a prayer. | |
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| Yet again the Torys on 17:41 - Sep 8 with 640 views | controversial_jack |
This is what the people of this country voted for, this and Brexit. They have got what they deserve. They need to just suck it up and stop whinging. | | | |
| Yet again the Torys on 18:10 - Sep 8 with 627 views | ThurrockJack92 |
| Yet again the Torys on 13:52 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
Exactly my point. Whoever was in government, they would have to have done some kind of furlough scheme and taxes would have to have gone up afterwards to help pay the bill.
My gripe with this is that Bojo has gone about it the wrong way, it shouldn't be on NI but otherwise, did people really think there wouldn't have been some kind of money grab?
Social care took a hammering this last 18 months. Maybe the answer is to stop dumping our families in care homes and look after them more ourselves? Obviously there will be those who need the 24 hour care, who can't be looked after at home but there will be a lot who can. |
I could stomach an increase in taxes to pay for social care if it went hand in hand with a full review of the industry. It apparently costs several thousands a month to provide but the people actually providing the care are amongst the most poorly paid in our society, this suggest a lot of unnecessary bloat or people exploiting the industry to make undue profits... |  | | |
| Yet again the Torys on 18:55 - Sep 8 with 605 views | Boundy |
| Yet again the Torys on 18:10 - Sep 8 by ThurrockJack92 |
I could stomach an increase in taxes to pay for social care if it went hand in hand with a full review of the industry. It apparently costs several thousands a month to provide but the people actually providing the care are amongst the most poorly paid in our society, this suggest a lot of unnecessary bloat or people exploiting the industry to make undue profits... |
I do find it difficult to believe that Care home owners feel they're paupers , knowing how much is charged every month for the care of an elderly person in relation to the pay rate to those who actually do the caring then it doesn't add up. The elderly have free health care so no charge there , food and drink limited amounts consumed in general , they provide their own clothes and in a lot of case bedding , in my experience due to the loss of personal items the laundry/clothing is taken home by relatives .My mother in law costs for 3 years in a council run home came to over 120k for 4 years before she passed leaving a fraction of an estate to leave the family .I realise I'm generalising but that's my personal experience of how it works . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Yet again the Torys on 19:33 - Sep 8 with 593 views | Catullus |
| Yet again the Torys on 18:10 - Sep 8 by ThurrockJack92 |
I could stomach an increase in taxes to pay for social care if it went hand in hand with a full review of the industry. It apparently costs several thousands a month to provide but the people actually providing the care are amongst the most poorly paid in our society, this suggest a lot of unnecessary bloat or people exploiting the industry to make undue profits... |
That's how I feel. A friend of mine works in a care home and it's not much more than minimum wage but the residents pay tens of thousands a year for care, it can be £1000 per week. It seems to be quite a profitable business.
I suppose for perspective I should say a day in an NHS bed costs £400 so £2800 per week. You'd need a break down of costs to see how a care home compares.
Of course socila care isn't just about care homes, it's also about caring for people in their owm homes in which case maybe families should do more for those we call our loved ones? | |
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| Yet again the Torys on 20:58 - Sep 8 with 572 views | Fireboy2 |
| Yet again the Torys on 19:33 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
That's how I feel. A friend of mine works in a care home and it's not much more than minimum wage but the residents pay tens of thousands a year for care, it can be £1000 per week. It seems to be quite a profitable business.
I suppose for perspective I should say a day in an NHS bed costs £400 so £2800 per week. You'd need a break down of costs to see how a care home compares.
Of course socila care isn't just about care homes, it's also about caring for people in their owm homes in which case maybe families should do more for those we call our loved ones? |
Your last paragraph resonated with me Cat.
It's how we used to look after our elders until we became selfish. |  | | |
| Yet again the Torys on 21:07 - Sep 8 with 568 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Yet again the Torys on 19:33 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
That's how I feel. A friend of mine works in a care home and it's not much more than minimum wage but the residents pay tens of thousands a year for care, it can be £1000 per week. It seems to be quite a profitable business.
I suppose for perspective I should say a day in an NHS bed costs £400 so £2800 per week. You'd need a break down of costs to see how a care home compares.
Of course socila care isn't just about care homes, it's also about caring for people in their owm homes in which case maybe families should do more for those we call our loved ones? |
And many families do just that …. until the person needs medical care that only the care homes can provide. These are unsung, but often heroic multi generational attempts to do whatever is needed 24x7x365.
Respect ✊ðŸ¾. | |
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| Yet again the Torys on 21:09 - Sep 8 with 566 views | Kilkennyjack |
Strange innit … | |
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| Yet again the Torys on 21:16 - Sep 8 with 564 views | ItchySphincter |
| Yet again the Torys on 13:33 - Sep 8 by Flashberryjack |
Where the hell did people think the money was coming from, maybe if Diane Abbott was in charge, she would have sorted our financial problems out without raising taxes. |
Tories would have said they weren’t raising taxes, only evil socialists do that. |  |
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| Yet again the Torys on 22:04 - Sep 8 with 542 views | Flashberryjack |
| Yet again the Torys on 21:16 - Sep 8 by ItchySphincter |
Tories would have said they weren’t raising taxes, only evil socialists do that. |
Yeah, of course. | |
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| Yet again the Torys on 22:29 - Sep 8 with 532 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Yet again the Torys on 13:33 - Sep 8 by Flashberryjack |
Where the hell did people think the money was coming from, maybe if Diane Abbott was in charge, she would have sorted our financial problems out without raising taxes. |
There had to be a tax rise.
However, national insurance is a regressive taxation (not by definition, it is due to the structure of it). It unfairly hits those lower down the income ladder. In addition, it is not charged on, for example, rental income (big Tory support) and interest. So those who generate their income from large savings and property will not get hit. In addition, it means that the the care costs of the rich are, in effect, being paid for by lower earners rather than by the rich and their children or other beneficiaries of their estate when they die.
I’m not being funny, but anyone earning less than £50k ish per year who defends this is genuinely unaware of the reality. It is almost directly the reverse of taxing the rich to pay for the poor.
Diane Abbott would, of course, never have been in charge of any taxation rises as she was shadow Home Secretary rather than shadow chancellor. | | | |
| Yet again the Torys on 22:34 - Sep 8 with 528 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Yet again the Torys on 10:43 - Sep 8 by Catullus |
No Max, this is about politicians. Starmer has said he doesn't support this but we all know Labour would have raised taxes too.
People suggesting only the tories would have doen this is party blindness. Either taxes go up or the sytem collapses, unless people were told to pay more themselves. Would anybody prefer it if the cap were taken away and a hard working now retired OAP needing social care had to give up ALL their assets when someone who lived their life on benefits would have to pay nothing?
That doesn't mean that Bojo isn't two faced lying C U next tuesday, of course he is but in this case, what did people expect? We all know manifestos are worthless. Getting all high and mighty about this is pointless, how many manifestos are ever rigidly obeyed? |
Not NI they wouldn’t. It’s a spectacularly Tory tax. Hits the least well off the hardest. Doesn’t impact those living on interest and a large property portfolio. Means the lower earners pay for the care costs of the rich so their kids’ inheritance is not affected. | | | |
| Yet again the Torys on 22:50 - Sep 8 with 524 views | controversial_jack |
| Yet again the Torys on 22:34 - Sep 8 by londonlisa2001 |
Not NI they wouldn’t. It’s a spectacularly Tory tax. Hits the least well off the hardest. Doesn’t impact those living on interest and a large property portfolio. Means the lower earners pay for the care costs of the rich so their kids’ inheritance is not affected. |
You don't pay Ni if you earn below £184 a week and retired ppl don't pay any at all | | | |
| Yet again the Torys on 23:01 - Sep 8 with 517 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| Yet again the Torys on 10:12 - Sep 8 by max936 |
Hang on a minute Cat, this isn't about Labour, as to what they may have done this or done that, Tory's been in power for ten yrs, so any blame being apportioned to Labour is null and void.
The point is that loads on this THREAD are missing is that Johnson said in his manifesto that NO TAXES and NO NATIONAL INSURANCE contributions would be increased, that was HIS pledge.
I agree that Covid wasn't foreseen, but the mistakes he made the advice he didn't listen to etc all adds up and that's before we get into the contracts given out to the TORY friends for PPE, Track and Trace etc, the wastage of public money as been astronomical. |
You can't argue for more taxes and more spending at every election and then complain when taxing and spending goes up can you.
Can you?
Oh you can can't you. You can be totally incoherent as long as you support the Left, it's fine. |  |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
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| Yet again the Torys on 23:07 - Sep 8 with 515 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Yet again the Torys on 22:50 - Sep 8 by controversial_jack |
You don't pay Ni if you earn below £184 a week and retired ppl don't pay any at all |
And?
It still hits the lower paid the most which is what I said.
You’re right that it doesn’t kick in for earnings up to the primary threshold. Anyone in a full time job is above that.
Retired people will pay the 1.25%. | | | |
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