| April Jones 08:17 - Dec 16 with 2741 views | Brynmill_Jack |
A quite harrowing programmer was shown last night about the events around the disappearance of April (around ten years ago) , the search for her which took almost 6 months, the criminal investigation and the conviction of Mark Bridger on all counts for her abduction, murder and his perversion of the course of justice to try to hide his actions. Her body was never found.
In a way I wished I hadn’t watched it but hearing the facts around Bridger, his failure to admit to anything to help ease the suffering of her family and wider community (despite the forensic evidence) was sickening.
The judge gave him a lifetime in prison with no parole (the most the law could give). I am against capital punishment on the premise of the mistaken identity problem but I’d gladly have allowed an exception in this case.
Full marks to the police who had a very complicated investigation to conduct and with great diligence carefully constructed a water tight case (as it turned out) with great support from an Italian forensics team who had the unenviable task of microscopically examining bone fragments from Bridger’s fire to see if they were pork bones (as bridger claimed) or human - which they were found to be.
I still can’t get my head around how dark someone’s mind becomes to even consider this kind of heinous and frankly evil crime. I hope every day is a horror in jail for him but that won’t give him any sense of the terror he subjected that little girl to. |  |
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| April Jones on 20:18 - Dec 16 with 660 views | shingle |
So if a scumbag is found guilty and the evidence is so overwhelming that there is no doubt whatsoever that the scumbag has committing the crime of lets say killing a child or any other despicable act and he then refuses to tell where the body is, why can he not then be tortured until he does reveal is it down to human rights or something else. [Post edited 16 Dec 2022 20:19]
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| April Jones on 20:25 - Dec 16 with 648 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 20:18 - Dec 16 by shingle |
So if a scumbag is found guilty and the evidence is so overwhelming that there is no doubt whatsoever that the scumbag has committing the crime of lets say killing a child or any other despicable act and he then refuses to tell where the body is, why can he not then be tortured until he does reveal is it down to human rights or something else. [Post edited 16 Dec 2022 20:19]
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You are seriously asking why British police are not allowed to torture someone ? Not really sure I can answer that |  | | |
| April Jones on 20:30 - Dec 16 with 635 views | onehunglow |
| April Jones on 20:25 - Dec 16 by Sirjohnalot |
You are seriously asking why British police are not allowed to torture someone ? Not really sure I can answer that |
He's a bit of a one is Shings. | |
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| April Jones on 11:31 - Dec 17 with 575 views | Scotia |
I used to sit behind the prosecution barrister involved in Mark Bridger's trial in the Liberty.
She's a big swans fan. | | | |
| April Jones on 13:13 - Dec 17 with 545 views | onehunglow |
| April Jones on 11:31 - Dec 17 by Scotia |
I used to sit behind the prosecution barrister involved in Mark Bridger's trial in the Liberty.
She's a big swans fan. |
Another barrister  | |
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| April Jones on 18:10 - Dec 17 with 522 views | shingle |
| April Jones on 20:25 - Dec 16 by Sirjohnalot |
You are seriously asking why British police are not allowed to torture someone ? Not really sure I can answer that |
Well if that someone is 100% guilty and there is no doubt whatsoever he committed the crime how do you get that someone to reveal where he has put the body, the hell parents will go through for the rest of there lives unable to find some sort of closure because the pig who murdered there child does not want to reveal where the body is, so how does the system get them to confess because obviously a lot of the time the system fails miserably in that respect, it seems to be a case of oh well we questioned him and he can not to be asked to tell us anything so lets put him back in his warm cell sort out whatever medication he needs and prepare his dinner. | | | |
| April Jones on 18:13 - Dec 17 with 520 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| April Jones on 18:10 - Dec 17 by shingle |
Well if that someone is 100% guilty and there is no doubt whatsoever he committed the crime how do you get that someone to reveal where he has put the body, the hell parents will go through for the rest of there lives unable to find some sort of closure because the pig who murdered there child does not want to reveal where the body is, so how does the system get them to confess because obviously a lot of the time the system fails miserably in that respect, it seems to be a case of oh well we questioned him and he can not to be asked to tell us anything so lets put him back in his warm cell sort out whatever medication he needs and prepare his dinner. |
Torture is a bit strong but I believe there should be a system where uncooperative prisoners should have any privileges removed. Nice cold empty cell with bread and water on the menu. Poo bucket only gets emptied once a week. That sort of thing. |  |
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| April Jones on 18:19 - Dec 17 with 508 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 18:10 - Dec 17 by shingle |
Well if that someone is 100% guilty and there is no doubt whatsoever he committed the crime how do you get that someone to reveal where he has put the body, the hell parents will go through for the rest of there lives unable to find some sort of closure because the pig who murdered there child does not want to reveal where the body is, so how does the system get them to confess because obviously a lot of the time the system fails miserably in that respect, it seems to be a case of oh well we questioned him and he can not to be asked to tell us anything so lets put him back in his warm cell sort out whatever medication he needs and prepare his dinner. |
But that applies to everyone who is convicted. The jury has to be ‘sure’ in every case. Juries, sometimes get it wrong.
Using your rationale, the Birmingham 6 would have been tortured to find the location of other IRA bombs. You would have tortured innocent people.
Also we have signed the Geneva Convention against torture.
Where do you draw the line ? What about standard police questioning ? Again the Birmingham 6 were beaten up by the police and gave false confessions. | | | |
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| April Jones on 18:20 - Dec 17 with 507 views | onehunglow |
| April Jones on 18:13 - Dec 17 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Torture is a bit strong but I believe there should be a system where uncooperative prisoners should have any privileges removed. Nice cold empty cell with bread and water on the menu. Poo bucket only gets emptied once a week. That sort of thing. |
Had a good chum who worked at Walton Jail.
The prisoners food was far better than that served to staff.
No comment | |
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| April Jones on 18:24 - Dec 17 with 506 views | shingle |
| April Jones on 18:13 - Dec 17 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Torture is a bit strong but I believe there should be a system where uncooperative prisoners should have any privileges removed. Nice cold empty cell with bread and water on the menu. Poo bucket only gets emptied once a week. That sort of thing. |
Well that would be a start i suppose making there life as miserable as possible, so maybe John can tell us why it just seems acceptable why more pressure is not put on these vile creatures, why is it a case of oh well they do not want to tell so there you go. | | | |
| April Jones on 18:29 - Dec 17 with 496 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 18:24 - Dec 17 by shingle |
Well that would be a start i suppose making there life as miserable as possible, so maybe John can tell us why it just seems acceptable why more pressure is not put on these vile creatures, why is it a case of oh well they do not want to tell so there you go. |
I’ve answered above matey | | | |
| April Jones on 18:29 - Dec 17 with 496 views | shingle |
| April Jones on 18:19 - Dec 17 by Sirjohnalot |
But that applies to everyone who is convicted. The jury has to be ‘sure’ in every case. Juries, sometimes get it wrong.
Using your rationale, the Birmingham 6 would have been tortured to find the location of other IRA bombs. You would have tortured innocent people.
Also we have signed the Geneva Convention against torture.
Where do you draw the line ? What about standard police questioning ? Again the Birmingham 6 were beaten up by the police and gave false confessions. |
See your point but the evidence today is far more conclusive than back in the days of the Birmingham six no one could ever be absolutely certain then, but today in many cases they can be absolutely certain. | | | |
| April Jones on 18:39 - Dec 17 with 480 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 18:29 - Dec 17 by shingle |
See your point but the evidence today is far more conclusive than back in the days of the Birmingham six no one could ever be absolutely certain then, but today in many cases they can be absolutely certain. |
But don’t you see, the conclusion then was they could be absolutely certain. They were sure that the dna found on their hands was from the Semtex, it only emerged later that the same substance was from the playing cards they were using earlier in the day.
Verdicts are still being overturned today, I had a rape case overturned last year due to the cps refusing to disclose evidence which later cleared my client. In your scenario , he would have been tortured.
Witnesses including the police, do lie in court. Some officers just want a conviction. They’re convinced someone in guilty, and that’s it.
You say today , in ‘many cases’ people are certain. How do your know the person you’re torturing isn’t one of those who are not guilty ? Answer is, you don’t | | | |
| April Jones on 18:48 - Dec 17 with 470 views | KeithHaynes |
| April Jones on 18:39 - Dec 17 by Sirjohnalot |
But don’t you see, the conclusion then was they could be absolutely certain. They were sure that the dna found on their hands was from the Semtex, it only emerged later that the same substance was from the playing cards they were using earlier in the day.
Verdicts are still being overturned today, I had a rape case overturned last year due to the cps refusing to disclose evidence which later cleared my client. In your scenario , he would have been tortured.
Witnesses including the police, do lie in court. Some officers just want a conviction. They’re convinced someone in guilty, and that’s it.
You say today , in ‘many cases’ people are certain. How do your know the person you’re torturing isn’t one of those who are not guilty ? Answer is, you don’t |
The sad thing is John a simple ‘investigative mindset’ not only proving the offence but also disproving it in the inquiry would set aside many prejudices.
Disproving an offence with the information and evidence at hand should always be the starting point, then work from there.
There’s a lost generation of police who can’t ‘always’ do that.
Remove the personal belief and manage the information you have is hard for some officers. |  |
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| April Jones on 18:52 - Dec 17 with 463 views | shingle |
| April Jones on 18:39 - Dec 17 by Sirjohnalot |
But don’t you see, the conclusion then was they could be absolutely certain. They were sure that the dna found on their hands was from the Semtex, it only emerged later that the same substance was from the playing cards they were using earlier in the day.
Verdicts are still being overturned today, I had a rape case overturned last year due to the cps refusing to disclose evidence which later cleared my client. In your scenario , he would have been tortured.
Witnesses including the police, do lie in court. Some officers just want a conviction. They’re convinced someone in guilty, and that’s it.
You say today , in ‘many cases’ people are certain. How do your know the person you’re torturing isn’t one of those who are not guilty ? Answer is, you don’t |
So that means we do not really know for certain if the likes of Hindley, Huntley, Brady and West etc did in fact commit the crimes they were accused of.  | | | |
| April Jones on 18:57 - Dec 17 with 447 views | KeithHaynes |
| April Jones on 18:13 - Dec 17 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Torture is a bit strong but I believe there should be a system where uncooperative prisoners should have any privileges removed. Nice cold empty cell with bread and water on the menu. Poo bucket only gets emptied once a week. That sort of thing. |
Here in jail if you don’t have someone to pay whilst in jail for food, clothes, sanitary stuff, your pretty knackered. The basics are very much that. Same though within the health system, in fact it’s exactly the same. You need friends or family to bring in decent food and the usual basics everyone expects day to day.
If not you have to rely on charitable stuff.
That’s not to say the health system is bad it’s very good.
I think ablutions in both cases are pretty much standard mind 😂 | |
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| April Jones on 18:58 - Dec 17 with 443 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 18:52 - Dec 17 by shingle |
So that means we do not really know for certain if the likes of Hindley, Huntley, Brady and West etc did in fact commit the crimes they were accused of. |
Let me put it another way.
There’s a new law allowing authorities to torture people so they can find out wheee bodies are. It works and we find out where they are giving families peace. 99 families are helped
You are convicted of murdering and hiding a child’s body somewhere in the Brecon Beacons. You are innocent. Should you be tortured ? | | | |
| April Jones on 19:02 - Dec 17 with 429 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 18:48 - Dec 17 by KeithHaynes |
The sad thing is John a simple ‘investigative mindset’ not only proving the offence but also disproving it in the inquiry would set aside many prejudices.
Disproving an offence with the information and evidence at hand should always be the starting point, then work from there.
There’s a lost generation of police who can’t ‘always’ do that.
Remove the personal belief and manage the information you have is hard for some officers. |
Number of officers I cross examine and ask them if they investigated an alibi given to them by defendant in an interview or whether they checked cctv near by where they said they were, and they look at me blankly, some even say ‘that’s not my job ‘ | | | |
| April Jones on 19:07 - Dec 17 with 418 views | trampie |
| April Jones on 19:02 - Dec 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Number of officers I cross examine and ask them if they investigated an alibi given to them by defendant in an interview or whether they checked cctv near by where they said they were, and they look at me blankly, some even say ‘that’s not my job ‘ |
The police on the whole seem absolutely hopeless. |  |
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| April Jones on 19:10 - Dec 17 with 401 views | trampie |
| April Jones on 18:29 - Dec 17 by shingle |
See your point but the evidence today is far more conclusive than back in the days of the Birmingham six no one could ever be absolutely certain then, but today in many cases they can be absolutely certain. |
They knew they were innocent and done a number on them. | |
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| April Jones on 19:11 - Dec 17 with 399 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 19:07 - Dec 17 by trampie |
The police on the whole seem absolutely hopeless. |
Not at all. I worked with and against some incredibly dedicated and brave people. They’re in a minority | | | |
| April Jones on 19:14 - Dec 17 with 391 views | KeithHaynes |
| April Jones on 19:02 - Dec 17 by Sirjohnalot |
Number of officers I cross examine and ask them if they investigated an alibi given to them by defendant in an interview or whether they checked cctv near by where they said they were, and they look at me blankly, some even say ‘that’s not my job ‘ |
That’s the rub John, everything from the investigation to the information is the job of the officer in the case. Especially in serious cases. Don’t get me going on undisclosed material, that still must be one of the biggest gifts for a defence barrister.
It’s the knowledge of the law which defeats a number of police.
Can you imagine losing a case because the father of a baby decapitated his son ?
That’s what should drive the police in any inquiry. As I said, apply the investigative mindset from the core investigative doctrine and you can’t go wrong, you will always be seen as unbiased and transparent.
Ego needs leaving at the office door. | |
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| April Jones on 19:22 - Dec 17 with 382 views | Sirjohnalot |
| April Jones on 19:14 - Dec 17 by KeithHaynes |
That’s the rub John, everything from the investigation to the information is the job of the officer in the case. Especially in serious cases. Don’t get me going on undisclosed material, that still must be one of the biggest gifts for a defence barrister.
It’s the knowledge of the law which defeats a number of police.
Can you imagine losing a case because the father of a baby decapitated his son ?
That’s what should drive the police in any inquiry. As I said, apply the investigative mindset from the core investigative doctrine and you can’t go wrong, you will always be seen as unbiased and transparent.
Ego needs leaving at the office door. |
I’ve said to many officers in training I’ve given. If you’re asked a pointing to whether you’ve made n error, and it’s correct, admit it or if you agree with the defence counsel, say you do. Jurors accept errors, if a police officer lies, it’s game over | | | |
| April Jones on 19:25 - Dec 17 with 374 views | KeithHaynes |
| April Jones on 19:22 - Dec 17 by Sirjohnalot |
I’ve said to many officers in training I’ve given. If you’re asked a pointing to whether you’ve made n error, and it’s correct, admit it or if you agree with the defence counsel, say you do. Jurors accept errors, if a police officer lies, it’s game over |
Exactly, admit your error, make a note in your diary or PNB, address how you managed it and record those details as well.
Bullet proof policing mate. | |
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| April Jones on 19:30 - Dec 17 with 355 views | trampie |
| April Jones on 19:25 - Dec 17 by KeithHaynes |
Exactly, admit your error, make a note in your diary or PNB, address how you managed it and record those details as well.
Bullet proof policing mate. |
What if you lose your diary and can't remember where you were for a few hours ? | |
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