| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o 18:45 - Jan 28 with 6223 views | SwansIndependent |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 22:57 - Jan 28 with 1092 views | swan_si |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 22:49 - Jan 28 by Dr_Winston |
Martin wants his own particular players. Those who aren't on that list are of no use to him and he'll do whatever he can to make them feel unwelcome.
For all we've chased Ogbene the reality is we've either already got better players at the club, or have ignored and sent back loans who could have done the job instead. |
 what a load of pony, " he'll do whatever he can to make them feel unwelcome " really Dr, you must start or end with ( in my opinion ) otherwise people will think its fact, which of course its not. |  | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 23:49 - Jan 28 with 1021 views | KeithHaynes |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 18:58 - Jan 28 by Dr_Winston |
It's a polite lie these days that players need permission to talk to other clubs. In the vast majority of cases personal terms are agreed long before the fee is. If they don't meet the player themselves it's all done via the agent.
It's a shame. If Whittaker thought he might have a fair chance here under RM perhaps he could have been pursuaded to stay. |
If …
He hasn’t got permission, he or his agent will fall foul of -
> Article 22 of the FIFA Players’ Agents Regulations prohibits a player’s agent from approaching any player who is under contract to a club with the aim of persuading him to terminate his contract prematurely or to violate any obligations stipulated in the employment contract. It shall be presumed, unless established to the contrary, that any players’ agent involved in a contractual breach committed by the player without just cause has induced such breach of contract.
Section C1 of the FA rules, meanwhile, prohibits a player who is under contract, or his agent, from talking to other clubs, or being approached by other clubs, without the consent of the player’s current club <
Of course certain incentives are agreed between agents and clubs to give the player an opportunity ( albeit illegal ) to decide if they want to leave the club. We’ve covered this so many times on here with information from agents directly it’s madness to think otherwise.
As for Whittaker knowing or believing anything that’s just conjecture, especially with a huge wage per week on offer from Rangers, when you look at his wage at Swansea it’s obvious why he wants to leave. And it’s nothing to do with the manager. In fact it’s Swansea City that have put him in this position to go to Rangers and earn far more than he does at the moment.
You may as well say Martin is as equally responsible for that. |  |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 00:59 - Jan 29 with 950 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 23:49 - Jan 28 by KeithHaynes |
If …
He hasn’t got permission, he or his agent will fall foul of -
> Article 22 of the FIFA Players’ Agents Regulations prohibits a player’s agent from approaching any player who is under contract to a club with the aim of persuading him to terminate his contract prematurely or to violate any obligations stipulated in the employment contract. It shall be presumed, unless established to the contrary, that any players’ agent involved in a contractual breach committed by the player without just cause has induced such breach of contract.
Section C1 of the FA rules, meanwhile, prohibits a player who is under contract, or his agent, from talking to other clubs, or being approached by other clubs, without the consent of the player’s current club <
Of course certain incentives are agreed between agents and clubs to give the player an opportunity ( albeit illegal ) to decide if they want to leave the club. We’ve covered this so many times on here with information from agents directly it’s madness to think otherwise.
As for Whittaker knowing or believing anything that’s just conjecture, especially with a huge wage per week on offer from Rangers, when you look at his wage at Swansea it’s obvious why he wants to leave. And it’s nothing to do with the manager. In fact it’s Swansea City that have put him in this position to go to Rangers and earn far more than he does at the moment.
You may as well say Martin is as equally responsible for that. |
Why would Whittaker want to play for a manager who has zero faith in him, let’s be realistic here.
The guy scored a hattrick and was dropped the next game then sent out on loan, he didn’t want to come back. When he was recalled, Martin made it pretty clear he wouldn’t be in his plans.
To think Whitaker doesn’t want to leave due to the manager is clearly incorrect, you don’t need any inside info to tell you that. Any player that does not see eye to eye with the manager regarding their role or future will want to move on, no question about it.
There is more money available at Rangers too of course, which is a happy upside of moving on usually. Anyone in the side can increase their wages if they force a transfer (Ntcham aside). So if that was the case, then everyone would force a transfer.
We have class players that clubs would be queuing up for. Thankfully those that haven’t forced the move don’t feel sufficiently cut off from the squad to do so. [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 7:23]
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 06:10 - Jan 29 with 918 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 23:49 - Jan 28 by KeithHaynes |
If …
He hasn’t got permission, he or his agent will fall foul of -
> Article 22 of the FIFA Players’ Agents Regulations prohibits a player’s agent from approaching any player who is under contract to a club with the aim of persuading him to terminate his contract prematurely or to violate any obligations stipulated in the employment contract. It shall be presumed, unless established to the contrary, that any players’ agent involved in a contractual breach committed by the player without just cause has induced such breach of contract.
Section C1 of the FA rules, meanwhile, prohibits a player who is under contract, or his agent, from talking to other clubs, or being approached by other clubs, without the consent of the player’s current club <
Of course certain incentives are agreed between agents and clubs to give the player an opportunity ( albeit illegal ) to decide if they want to leave the club. We’ve covered this so many times on here with information from agents directly it’s madness to think otherwise.
As for Whittaker knowing or believing anything that’s just conjecture, especially with a huge wage per week on offer from Rangers, when you look at his wage at Swansea it’s obvious why he wants to leave. And it’s nothing to do with the manager. In fact it’s Swansea City that have put him in this position to go to Rangers and earn far more than he does at the moment.
You may as well say Martin is as equally responsible for that. |
Let’s be honest here.
Obafemi didn’t turn up the day after the last transfer window because the club didn’t accept Burnleys offer.
Paterson threw a wobbler when the club announced he’d played enough games to trigger an extra year.
If Whittaker plays last week, he can’t go to Rangers.
Absolutely no doubt there have been fall outs and arguments since then, but those are the reasons they refused to play.
We can argue another manager wouldn’t have sent Whittaker on loan, but in those scenarios I’d think we’d see a similar outcome whoever was in charge. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:33 - Jan 29 with 867 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 06:10 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
Let’s be honest here.
Obafemi didn’t turn up the day after the last transfer window because the club didn’t accept Burnleys offer.
Paterson threw a wobbler when the club announced he’d played enough games to trigger an extra year.
If Whittaker plays last week, he can’t go to Rangers.
Absolutely no doubt there have been fall outs and arguments since then, but those are the reasons they refused to play.
We can argue another manager wouldn’t have sent Whittaker on loan, but in those scenarios I’d think we’d see a similar outcome whoever was in charge. |
“ We can argue another manager wouldn’t have sent Whittaker on loan, but in those scenarios I’d think we’d see a similar outcome whoever was in charge.”
…. And wouldn’t have benched Obafemi for no apparent reason (long before Burnley) and when he knocked on the gaffers door to find out why, was told to “run more”, no more elaboration than that. Bemused is the word I was told. He was ignored in training, no structure there to improve, no guidance and isolated in almost every aspect. He then deleted everything Swans related from his socials after a while.
Pato suffered the same fate after he threw his wobbly due to the contract situation. Pato is the most popular guy in the dressing room I’m told, holds huge influence over the team and a massive clash of ego between him and Russ. So while the initial conflict was due to the contract, since then it’s been handled awfully by the manager. They have had multiple blow ups.
Same goes for all these players. While Russell may not instigate it, he ensures it spirals to a point where players refuse to even want to play for him. Piroe had the treatment immediately and was sent to train on his own because he spoke up about Russell’s instructions.
This is why other managers have had the odd fall out with a player, but have never had so many revolt like that or refuse to play.
I don’t blame Whittaker at all. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:41 - Jan 29 with 880 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:33 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
“ We can argue another manager wouldn’t have sent Whittaker on loan, but in those scenarios I’d think we’d see a similar outcome whoever was in charge.”
…. And wouldn’t have benched Obafemi for no apparent reason (long before Burnley) and when he knocked on the gaffers door to find out why, was told to “run more”, no more elaboration than that. Bemused is the word I was told. He was ignored in training, no structure there to improve, no guidance and isolated in almost every aspect. He then deleted everything Swans related from his socials after a while.
Pato suffered the same fate after he threw his wobbly due to the contract situation. Pato is the most popular guy in the dressing room I’m told, holds huge influence over the team and a massive clash of ego between him and Russ. So while the initial conflict was due to the contract, since then it’s been handled awfully by the manager. They have had multiple blow ups.
Same goes for all these players. While Russell may not instigate it, he ensures it spirals to a point where players refuse to even want to play for him. Piroe had the treatment immediately and was sent to train on his own because he spoke up about Russell’s instructions.
This is why other managers have had the odd fall out with a player, but have never had so many revolt like that or refuse to play.
I don’t blame Whittaker at all. |
At least we’ve agreed that all three refused to play for the club for reasons beyond Martins control.
I don’t blame Whittaker either. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:46 - Jan 29 with 849 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:41 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
At least we’ve agreed that all three refused to play for the club for reasons beyond Martins control.
I don’t blame Whittaker either. |
I didn’t agree that.
Martin could have prevented all of them getting to that stage. Without much effort at all. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:57 - Jan 29 with 868 views | SullutaCreturned |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 00:59 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why would Whittaker want to play for a manager who has zero faith in him, let’s be realistic here.
The guy scored a hattrick and was dropped the next game then sent out on loan, he didn’t want to come back. When he was recalled, Martin made it pretty clear he wouldn’t be in his plans.
To think Whitaker doesn’t want to leave due to the manager is clearly incorrect, you don’t need any inside info to tell you that. Any player that does not see eye to eye with the manager regarding their role or future will want to move on, no question about it.
There is more money available at Rangers too of course, which is a happy upside of moving on usually. Anyone in the side can increase their wages if they force a transfer (Ntcham aside). So if that was the case, then everyone would force a transfer.
We have class players that clubs would be queuing up for. Thankfully those that haven’t forced the move don’t feel sufficiently cut off from the squad to do so. [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 7:23]
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That third paragraph, Ill throw jay Fulton at you. he was sidelined, left out and in n doubt Martin didnt want him but even so he refused a chance to leave and instead worked hard and convinced Martin to change his mind.
I'm not saying Martin has handled things well, I'm a bit of a critic, even so it's not ALL his fault. How the players themselves have behaved also has to be looked at, as do their agents. | | | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:04 - Jan 29 with 865 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:57 - Jan 29 by SullutaCreturned |
That third paragraph, Ill throw jay Fulton at you. he was sidelined, left out and in n doubt Martin didnt want him but even so he refused a chance to leave and instead worked hard and convinced Martin to change his mind.
I'm not saying Martin has handled things well, I'm a bit of a critic, even so it's not ALL his fault. How the players themselves have behaved also has to be looked at, as do their agents. |
This is exactly it. I happen to think he’s a limited manager and that the way this season has panned out for everyone else, we’d be comfortably in the playoffs, possibly threatening Sheffield United under Potter or Cooper.
I don’t agree with the witch-hunt or the need to spin doctor any possible situation to make him look worse than he is. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:27 - Jan 29 with 829 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:57 - Jan 29 by SullutaCreturned |
That third paragraph, Ill throw jay Fulton at you. he was sidelined, left out and in n doubt Martin didnt want him but even so he refused a chance to leave and instead worked hard and convinced Martin to change his mind.
I'm not saying Martin has handled things well, I'm a bit of a critic, even so it's not ALL his fault. How the players themselves have behaved also has to be looked at, as do their agents. |
Indeed and that’s to Jays credit.
But we are a middling club, we can’t afford to have millions of pounds worth of players not playing due to avoidable disputes. Man management is the managers remit.
Nobody is saying it’s all Martins fault, but people have alluded to it being all the players fault.
I’m adding the realistic balance, all to blame and completely avoidable. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:31 - Jan 29 with 822 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:04 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
This is exactly it. I happen to think he’s a limited manager and that the way this season has panned out for everyone else, we’d be comfortably in the playoffs, possibly threatening Sheffield United under Potter or Cooper.
I don’t agree with the witch-hunt or the need to spin doctor any possible situation to make him look worse than he is. |
I don’t see a witch hunt or any spin, it’s becoming a popular accusation but I’m never seeing one.
Is an average position of 14th good performance?
Is it sensible to suggest all parties are to blame here?
So how is that spin and a witch-hunt? It’s just because it opposes the narrative that Martin is a messiah on the field and the poor victim off it. [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 8:33]
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:38 - Jan 29 with 838 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:31 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t see a witch hunt or any spin, it’s becoming a popular accusation but I’m never seeing one.
Is an average position of 14th good performance?
Is it sensible to suggest all parties are to blame here?
So how is that spin and a witch-hunt? It’s just because it opposes the narrative that Martin is a messiah on the field and the poor victim off it. [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 8:33]
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I bet Vetchonian and OHL don’t either.
No it’s not. My previous post clearly states I think we’d be doing better under either of our post relegation managers.
Yes, absolutely. I’ve never suggested Martin is faultless. May have been on this thread or another, but in the last couple of days I’ve said his approach to players not in his plans seems more Mourinho than Redknapp. Mourinho isn’t meant as a compliment in this context. At the sane time, he isn’t the reason those three refused to play.
The narrative that he is a messiah is just as ludicrous. He’s average. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:42 - Jan 29 with 811 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:38 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
I bet Vetchonian and OHL don’t either.
No it’s not. My previous post clearly states I think we’d be doing better under either of our post relegation managers.
Yes, absolutely. I’ve never suggested Martin is faultless. May have been on this thread or another, but in the last couple of days I’ve said his approach to players not in his plans seems more Mourinho than Redknapp. Mourinho isn’t meant as a compliment in this context. At the sane time, he isn’t the reason those three refused to play.
The narrative that he is a messiah is just as ludicrous. He’s average. |
What they think is of no consequence to the point I make.
Direct me to one. You seem to be suggesting that making the obvious point that all parties are to blame is “a witch hunt”. I have no idea where you are seeing that.
You have just admitted he isn’t good enough on the pitch and he also shoulders some of the blame off it.
So what are you saying that’s different to what o said then, you appear to agree with me… unless you are accusing yourself of this strange witch hunt too?
Or was it a throw away comment without much substance? They happen quite often on here unfortunately. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:58 - Jan 29 with 810 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:42 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
What they think is of no consequence to the point I make.
Direct me to one. You seem to be suggesting that making the obvious point that all parties are to blame is “a witch hunt”. I have no idea where you are seeing that.
You have just admitted he isn’t good enough on the pitch and he also shoulders some of the blame off it.
So what are you saying that’s different to what o said then, you appear to agree with me… unless you are accusing yourself of this strange witch hunt too?
Or was it a throw away comment without much substance? They happen quite often on here unfortunately. |
There’s nothing to admit is there. I’m calling it as I see it without an agenda.
I don’t think he’ll be poached or sacked anytime soon but wouldn’t be at all disappointed if he was.
Three players refused to play for the club, not the manager. One was stropping because he didn’t get a move to a club likely to be promoted, one was stropping because he wanted to renegotiate his contract, not trigger an extension due to the form he was in, the third wouldn’t get a move to a much bigger club if he played for us.
Suggesting they are refusing to play for Russell Martin rather than refusing to play for Swansea City is blatant spin doctoring. It’s like me having a pay dispute with my employer. It’s not my line managers fault, even if I may subsequently argue with him. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 09:02 - Jan 29 with 775 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:58 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
There’s nothing to admit is there. I’m calling it as I see it without an agenda.
I don’t think he’ll be poached or sacked anytime soon but wouldn’t be at all disappointed if he was.
Three players refused to play for the club, not the manager. One was stropping because he didn’t get a move to a club likely to be promoted, one was stropping because he wanted to renegotiate his contract, not trigger an extension due to the form he was in, the third wouldn’t get a move to a much bigger club if he played for us.
Suggesting they are refusing to play for Russell Martin rather than refusing to play for Swansea City is blatant spin doctoring. It’s like me having a pay dispute with my employer. It’s not my line managers fault, even if I may subsequently argue with him. |
Again, you appear to be saying the same things as me, but suggesting everyone barring you has an agenda (which is rich after the spin you used to put on all things Cooper)…
They refused to play for Russell Martin, fact. As a result, they also refused to play for the club.
Had there been a different manager who treated them with respect and de-escalated their prima-donna behavioural traits that are often packaged with modern players, then I have no doubt each one would be playing for Swansea and not refusing to play.
So that’s the manager, not the club.
I’m not sure how that can be argued. Do you really think Whittaker would be forcing a move if Russ had brought him back (or better still didn’t shun him after scoring a hattrick) and said he wants to integrate him into being a key player for us? Zero chance.
He can earn what he would in Scotland here if he performed, but he knows he has no chance under Russ.
It’s nothing like your office example.
Pato threw his toys out of the pram due to the contract issues, he then spent the next 8 months arguing with Russell Martin who treated him like dirt as a result. Feel free to put that into an office framework, it will still be the same outcome.
You are confusing the reason for the first dispute, with Russell’s attitude in escalating it to a point where they refuse to play, or argue so much Russell freezes them out.
You have said they are all to blame, yet trying to back away from it to start another tiresome “let’s argue with Dr P” borefest.
Make your mind up, he’s either blamless for it or he isn’t.
You say he’s not blameless in it… then accuse people of having an agenda for pointing out where that blame quite obviously lays. [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 9:11]
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 09:34 - Jan 29 with 716 views | vetchonian |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:38 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
I bet Vetchonian and OHL don’t either.
No it’s not. My previous post clearly states I think we’d be doing better under either of our post relegation managers.
Yes, absolutely. I’ve never suggested Martin is faultless. May have been on this thread or another, but in the last couple of days I’ve said his approach to players not in his plans seems more Mourinho than Redknapp. Mourinho isn’t meant as a compliment in this context. At the sane time, he isn’t the reason those three refused to play.
The narrative that he is a messiah is just as ludicrous. He’s average. |
your last paragraph is spot on..
No witch hunt from me but I agree I'm probably one of his biggest critics and have been from early doors . Why because I couldn't see how the football was better than we had been seeing and it wasted delivering any results....18 months on what has changed?
There is on this site particularly an over enthusiastic support of our manager and to.me it seems by many he should be immune from critique......whilst on PS there is far more dissent towards him.
You are right he is a bang average manager personally I dont believe he will ever develop any more than mid table mediocrity and I believe this squad is capable of some that's my opinion no witch hunt..I think he has personal traits which will hamper his success and development as a manager again these are my opinions [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 9:38]
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:01 - Jan 29 with 673 views | onehunglow |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 08:38 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
I bet Vetchonian and OHL don’t either.
No it’s not. My previous post clearly states I think we’d be doing better under either of our post relegation managers.
Yes, absolutely. I’ve never suggested Martin is faultless. May have been on this thread or another, but in the last couple of days I’ve said his approach to players not in his plans seems more Mourinho than Redknapp. Mourinho isn’t meant as a compliment in this context. At the sane time, he isn’t the reason those three refused to play.
The narrative that he is a messiah is just as ludicrous. He’s average. |
Don’t bet.
It kills
PRnassus and I are independent minded so no love in with us as is the case with many on here
He is dead right on many football matters and the abuse he gets is from those who are up Martins backside .
We look like making millions on two forwards yet a goalkeeper seems down the list
Maybe last day again.
Well run not
Well coached ? | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:06 - Jan 29 with 668 views | onehunglow |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 09:34 - Jan 29 by vetchonian |
your last paragraph is spot on..
No witch hunt from me but I agree I'm probably one of his biggest critics and have been from early doors . Why because I couldn't see how the football was better than we had been seeing and it wasted delivering any results....18 months on what has changed?
There is on this site particularly an over enthusiastic support of our manager and to.me it seems by many he should be immune from critique......whilst on PS there is far more dissent towards him.
You are right he is a bang average manager personally I dont believe he will ever develop any more than mid table mediocrity and I believe this squad is capable of some that's my opinion no witch hunt..I think he has personal traits which will hamper his success and development as a manager again these are my opinions [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 9:38]
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His popularity is not bang average on here though.
Considering he has won nowt nor even had a decent cup run makes it all the more incredible
Compared to the insouciance shown towards ,say Sousa, it is hard to work out our fan base at times
We could have built with Whittaker and should have recalled Joseph . Both could have been “ coached” .
We re talking about a coach who paid good money for Fishervto come to our club though, a keeper whom most dread to see between the sticks as the coming weeks will evidence
Witches got burned | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:29 - Jan 29 with 634 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 09:02 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Again, you appear to be saying the same things as me, but suggesting everyone barring you has an agenda (which is rich after the spin you used to put on all things Cooper)…
They refused to play for Russell Martin, fact. As a result, they also refused to play for the club.
Had there been a different manager who treated them with respect and de-escalated their prima-donna behavioural traits that are often packaged with modern players, then I have no doubt each one would be playing for Swansea and not refusing to play.
So that’s the manager, not the club.
I’m not sure how that can be argued. Do you really think Whittaker would be forcing a move if Russ had brought him back (or better still didn’t shun him after scoring a hattrick) and said he wants to integrate him into being a key player for us? Zero chance.
He can earn what he would in Scotland here if he performed, but he knows he has no chance under Russ.
It’s nothing like your office example.
Pato threw his toys out of the pram due to the contract issues, he then spent the next 8 months arguing with Russell Martin who treated him like dirt as a result. Feel free to put that into an office framework, it will still be the same outcome.
You are confusing the reason for the first dispute, with Russell’s attitude in escalating it to a point where they refuse to play, or argue so much Russell freezes them out.
You have said they are all to blame, yet trying to back away from it to start another tiresome “let’s argue with Dr P” borefest.
Make your mind up, he’s either blamless for it or he isn’t.
You say he’s not blameless in it… then accuse people of having an agenda for pointing out where that blame quite obviously lays. [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 9:11]
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No.
I’m not suggesting everyone bar me has an agenda at all. You’ve made that up.
Two refused to play because they wanted moves, one because he wanted a better contract. We can go round as many circles as you like. They are club not Russell Martin issues and he is not the reason they refused to play for the club. Claiming otherwise is spin doctoring.
There is nothing contradictory about me pointing that out whilst agreeing with you that he’s not a very good manager. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:33 - Jan 29 with 621 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:01 - Jan 29 by onehunglow |
Don’t bet.
It kills
PRnassus and I are independent minded so no love in with us as is the case with many on here
He is dead right on many football matters and the abuse he gets is from those who are up Martins backside .
We look like making millions on two forwards yet a goalkeeper seems down the list
Maybe last day again.
Well run not
Well coached ? |
There’s no abuse here. I just don’t agree at all that those players refused to play because of him.
If we make millions on two forwards and don’t strengthen adequately, Russell Martin will be even more disappointed than you are. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:36 - Jan 29 with 597 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:29 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
No.
I’m not suggesting everyone bar me has an agenda at all. You’ve made that up.
Two refused to play because they wanted moves, one because he wanted a better contract. We can go round as many circles as you like. They are club not Russell Martin issues and he is not the reason they refused to play for the club. Claiming otherwise is spin doctoring.
There is nothing contradictory about me pointing that out whilst agreeing with you that he’s not a very good manager. |
Of course they are Martin issues, pretending they are not is spin doctoring.
As I’ve said, you seem stuck on the initial reason for the dispute. That escalated to them not being in the side due to Martin.
There is no debate about this, I’m telling you for a fact. You can choose to not believe me if you like, but as I said, it’s not advisable. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:39 - Jan 29 with 590 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:33 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
There’s no abuse here. I just don’t agree at all that those players refused to play because of him.
If we make millions on two forwards and don’t strengthen adequately, Russell Martin will be even more disappointed than you are. |
Spin doctoring and agenda, they are very aggressive accusations based on absolutely nothing at all.
It’s nothing to agree or disagree with. Obafemi, Pato and Whitaker would all be playing for Swansea regularly now if it wasn’t for Russell’s reactions to their situations.
That’s simply how it is: | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:40 - Jan 29 with 597 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 09:34 - Jan 29 by vetchonian |
your last paragraph is spot on..
No witch hunt from me but I agree I'm probably one of his biggest critics and have been from early doors . Why because I couldn't see how the football was better than we had been seeing and it wasted delivering any results....18 months on what has changed?
There is on this site particularly an over enthusiastic support of our manager and to.me it seems by many he should be immune from critique......whilst on PS there is far more dissent towards him.
You are right he is a bang average manager personally I dont believe he will ever develop any more than mid table mediocrity and I believe this squad is capable of some that's my opinion no witch hunt..I think he has personal traits which will hamper his success and development as a manager again these are my opinions [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 9:38]
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Fair post.
If he does something well, praise. If he does something badly, criticise.
There are a few on here and I’m sure on every other forum and social media, who will stick their flag in the sand and only ever highlight whichever suits the opinion they formed on day one, be that positive or negative.
I’ve changed my mind on him twice. Barring him getting us to and actually winning the playoffs, I don’t see me changing it again.
If the owners want someone who can plod along, increasing players values so we raise substantially more than we spend on players, therefore balancing the books, he’s doing a decent job. If they genuinely want promotion, there are much better options. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:43 - Jan 29 with 584 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:40 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
Fair post.
If he does something well, praise. If he does something badly, criticise.
There are a few on here and I’m sure on every other forum and social media, who will stick their flag in the sand and only ever highlight whichever suits the opinion they formed on day one, be that positive or negative.
I’ve changed my mind on him twice. Barring him getting us to and actually winning the playoffs, I don’t see me changing it again.
If the owners want someone who can plod along, increasing players values so we raise substantially more than we spend on players, therefore balancing the books, he’s doing a decent job. If they genuinely want promotion, there are much better options. |
“ There are a few on here and I’m sure on every other forum and social media, who will stick their flag in the sand and only ever highlight whichever suits the opinion they formed on day one, be that positive or negative.”
Like you did with Steve Cooper?
How can you make a conclusion like that based on a manager who has pretty much had no success. Who do you think would criticise him if we made the play offs for example?
I know I wouldn’t for one.
You appear to be attacking people characters instead of debating the points at hand. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:51 - Jan 29 with 553 views | onehunglow |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:33 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
There’s no abuse here. I just don’t agree at all that those players refused to play because of him.
If we make millions on two forwards and don’t strengthen adequately, Russell Martin will be even more disappointed than you are. |
It depends on how one judges abuse
IMO,there most certainly is albeit far more subtle than hitherto. | |
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