| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o 18:45 - Jan 28 with 6845 views | SwansIndependent |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:58 - Jan 29 with 1665 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:51 - Jan 29 by onehunglow |
It depends on how one judges abuse
IMO,there most certainly is albeit far more subtle than hitherto. |
Correct, there was a barbed and personal nature to the debate from 247 the second he realised he couldn’t put a decent point forward.
All misdirection, bringing up other posters that have nothing to do with me, bringing up accusations of agendas and witch hunts… all the while agreeing with me.
He said Martin isn’t blameless for this, but then slags of people who discuss where that blame is.
Obafemi does not like Martin, Martin does not like Obafemi - Obafemi refused to play in order to get away from that situation and now is ON LOAN to another Championship club.
Cry about it all you like that it’s nothing to do with Martin, however the truth will be completely absent. |  |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:08 - Jan 29 with 1676 views | onehunglow |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:58 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Correct, there was a barbed and personal nature to the debate from 247 the second he realised he couldn’t put a decent point forward.
All misdirection, bringing up other posters that have nothing to do with me, bringing up accusations of agendas and witch hunts… all the while agreeing with me.
He said Martin isn’t blameless for this, but then slags of people who discuss where that blame is.
Obafemi does not like Martin, Martin does not like Obafemi - Obafemi refused to play in order to get away from that situation and now is ON LOAN to another Championship club.
Cry about it all you like that it’s nothing to do with Martin, however the truth will be completely absent. |
I have tried to be always honest about my posting most of which is done when annoyed,upset or irritated. Often sheer angry. It’s what sport is about. Emotion and passion . I have both in spades. It doesn’t help if one is rather arrogant ,like me.
[Post edited 29 Jan 2023 11:10]
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:22 - Jan 29 with 1670 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:43 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
“ There are a few on here and I’m sure on every other forum and social media, who will stick their flag in the sand and only ever highlight whichever suits the opinion they formed on day one, be that positive or negative.”
Like you did with Steve Cooper?
How can you make a conclusion like that based on a manager who has pretty much had no success. Who do you think would criticise him if we made the play offs for example?
I know I wouldn’t for one.
You appear to be attacking people characters instead of debating the points at hand. |
I said Steve Cooper was touting himself about after the playoff final. I said I didn’t like the football and I didn’t like the way he blamed players after bad performances. Ironically, Russell Martin is sometimes guilty of that and I don’t like it from him either.
I also said, he was gettting the best out of the players he had and that on the balance of it, I wasn’t overly bothered either way, but if I had to pick I’d want him to stay (between the playoff final and him going). Further to that, later in the following season I said he was playing better football with Forest than he had with us and that was a credit to him as it showed he was playing the appropriate football for the players he had.
We’re three points off the playoffs and he gets it in spades on here. I’m not arguing with that at all. I think we’d be comfortably third under Potter or Coopet.
That’s a separate issue to pointing out no one refused to play for him as an individual | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:28 - Jan 29 with 1585 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:22 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
I said Steve Cooper was touting himself about after the playoff final. I said I didn’t like the football and I didn’t like the way he blamed players after bad performances. Ironically, Russell Martin is sometimes guilty of that and I don’t like it from him either.
I also said, he was gettting the best out of the players he had and that on the balance of it, I wasn’t overly bothered either way, but if I had to pick I’d want him to stay (between the playoff final and him going). Further to that, later in the following season I said he was playing better football with Forest than he had with us and that was a credit to him as it showed he was playing the appropriate football for the players he had.
We’re three points off the playoffs and he gets it in spades on here. I’m not arguing with that at all. I think we’d be comfortably third under Potter or Coopet.
That’s a separate issue to pointing out no one refused to play for him as an individual |
You did, yes. I know.
But that was based on nothing wasn’t it, as we established after several hours/days of debate. You twisted the situation because you didn’t like him. You acknowledged that both Rodgers and Potter wanted to move to bigger clubs yet refused to treat the situations the same.
3 points of the playoffs is another twisting of reality, yes we are technically but it is not the situation you are trying to portray. We are 12th and should we beat Brum next week we will probably still be 3 points (and a heap of GD) behind the play offs.
Of course they refused to play for him as an individual. On another thread you acknowledged he ostracised them… well that’s why they want to leave and that’s why they are forcing it.
Rocket science it ain’t. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:47 - Jan 29 with 1600 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:58 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Correct, there was a barbed and personal nature to the debate from 247 the second he realised he couldn’t put a decent point forward.
All misdirection, bringing up other posters that have nothing to do with me, bringing up accusations of agendas and witch hunts… all the while agreeing with me.
He said Martin isn’t blameless for this, but then slags of people who discuss where that blame is.
Obafemi does not like Martin, Martin does not like Obafemi - Obafemi refused to play in order to get away from that situation and now is ON LOAN to another Championship club.
Cry about it all you like that it’s nothing to do with Martin, however the truth will be completely absent. |
There’s nothing barbed or personal unless you’re interpreting me telling you to grow up after a sarcastic comment that way.
And please stop diverting from the point. I’m not pretending there are no issues between Obafemi, Paterson and Martin. Clearly there are. It’s not up for debate.
I’m simply pointing out the reason both refused to play for us when they did.
Not accepting Burnleys bid isn’t Martins fault. Not giving an improved contract isn’t Martins fault. These are the reasons they refused to play.
Don’t try to twist it into me saying there’s no issue between them or he hasn’t washed his hands of them.
No need for capitals. You’re arguing points I haven’t made. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:59 - Jan 29 with 1521 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:47 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
There’s nothing barbed or personal unless you’re interpreting me telling you to grow up after a sarcastic comment that way.
And please stop diverting from the point. I’m not pretending there are no issues between Obafemi, Paterson and Martin. Clearly there are. It’s not up for debate.
I’m simply pointing out the reason both refused to play for us when they did.
Not accepting Burnleys bid isn’t Martins fault. Not giving an improved contract isn’t Martins fault. These are the reasons they refused to play.
Don’t try to twist it into me saying there’s no issue between them or he hasn’t washed his hands of them.
No need for capitals. You’re arguing points I haven’t made. |
You are suggesting people have an agenda, based on nothing. Which lets be fair is the usual basis for your comments.
You did that to provoke, not to debate. Why are you pretending otherwise.
You keep saying the same things. You recognise there are issues between these players and Martin, but you aren’t accepting that it’s one of the main reasons they will want to leave… it’s bizarre.
No, that’s the reasons YOU think he refused to play. The astute among us will have noticed he was dropped PRIOR to refusing to play.
He fell out with Martin weeks before Burnley came in for him again. I’ve told you in detail what happened and the conversations that were had when Obafemi questioned him on it.
Obafemi absolutely eventually refused to play… that was to force a move to get away from the toxic relationship Martin heavily contributed to.
These are facts. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 13:10 - Jan 29 with 1400 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 13:07 - Jan 29 by KeithHaynes |
These are players who threw their teddies out the pram who deserve nothing but contempt.
This is our club and our clubs jersey.
He’s a complete prat. |
Agree completely, except for Whittaker who did exactly as I would have done.
Martin however could have stopped all three from happening if he handled the situation better, unfortunately his man management skills are as bad as his predictions of opposition eventually stopping running. I’m still waiting.
No issue in laying blame at the players in question, it’s those that refuse to also lay blame with the manager is my point.
They are all stubborn, petulant idiots that put themselves before the club. This won’t be the last players he will publicly fall out with, not by a long chalk. [Post edited 29 Jan 2023 13:12]
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 14:16 - Jan 29 with 1391 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:59 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
You are suggesting people have an agenda, based on nothing. Which lets be fair is the usual basis for your comments.
You did that to provoke, not to debate. Why are you pretending otherwise.
You keep saying the same things. You recognise there are issues between these players and Martin, but you aren’t accepting that it’s one of the main reasons they will want to leave… it’s bizarre.
No, that’s the reasons YOU think he refused to play. The astute among us will have noticed he was dropped PRIOR to refusing to play.
He fell out with Martin weeks before Burnley came in for him again. I’ve told you in detail what happened and the conversations that were had when Obafemi questioned him on it.
Obafemi absolutely eventually refused to play… that was to force a move to get away from the toxic relationship Martin heavily contributed to.
These are facts. |
As I’ve said on the other thread, he started every game from the start of the season until deadline day, where he came off the bench. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 14:37 - Jan 29 with 1343 views | lifelong |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 11:08 - Jan 29 by onehunglow |
I have tried to be always honest about my posting most of which is done when annoyed,upset or irritated. Often sheer angry. It’s what sport is about. Emotion and passion . I have both in spades. It doesn’t help if one is rather arrogant ,like me.
[Post edited 29 Jan 2023 11:10]
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You’ll have me shedding a tear in my green tea now. |  | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 14:47 - Jan 29 with 1330 views | KeithHaynes |
Do a Peter Odemwingie.
Big car park at Rangers to hide in. |  |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:21 - Jan 29 with 1273 views | dobjack2 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 14:47 - Jan 29 by KeithHaynes |
Do a Peter Odemwingie.
Big car park at Rangers to hide in. |
Don't give his agent ideas. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:38 - Jan 29 with 1232 views | SullutaCreturned |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:29 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
No.
I’m not suggesting everyone bar me has an agenda at all. You’ve made that up.
Two refused to play because they wanted moves, one because he wanted a better contract. We can go round as many circles as you like. They are club not Russell Martin issues and he is not the reason they refused to play for the club. Claiming otherwise is spin doctoring.
There is nothing contradictory about me pointing that out whilst agreeing with you that he’s not a very good manager. |
For what it's worth, I largely agree with you. Obafemi wanted the move and it wasn't Martin who turned down the offer from Burnley. Pato wanted a pay rise, again something out of Martins hands. They then refused to play which led to the argument with Martin.
I can blame Martin for what happened with Piroe and I think he's handled Whittaker badly too. I also dont like his habit for throwing players under the bus after poor performances. He doesn't take the blame for things that are clearly his fault. Take Abdullai, Martin played him out of position. A young, inexperienced player, out of position who made a mistake that led to a goal I believe, he should never have been playing right back and that was martin's fault but he pit it all on the kid. Poor man management, he should have been trying to gee the kid up not sucking what was left of his confidence away.
Martin is a bang average manager with a big ego, he refuses to accept he's wrong and keeps repeating mistakes. I also do not understand some of the praise he gets on here, he's definitely a naughty boy! | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:45 - Jan 29 with 1202 views | swan_si |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:38 - Jan 29 by SullutaCreturned |
For what it's worth, I largely agree with you. Obafemi wanted the move and it wasn't Martin who turned down the offer from Burnley. Pato wanted a pay rise, again something out of Martins hands. They then refused to play which led to the argument with Martin.
I can blame Martin for what happened with Piroe and I think he's handled Whittaker badly too. I also dont like his habit for throwing players under the bus after poor performances. He doesn't take the blame for things that are clearly his fault. Take Abdullai, Martin played him out of position. A young, inexperienced player, out of position who made a mistake that led to a goal I believe, he should never have been playing right back and that was martin's fault but he pit it all on the kid. Poor man management, he should have been trying to gee the kid up not sucking what was left of his confidence away.
Martin is a bang average manager with a big ego, he refuses to accept he's wrong and keeps repeating mistakes. I also do not understand some of the praise he gets on here, he's definitely a naughty boy! |
Out of interest, what happened with Piroe? |  | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:47 - Jan 29 with 1199 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:38 - Jan 29 by SullutaCreturned |
For what it's worth, I largely agree with you. Obafemi wanted the move and it wasn't Martin who turned down the offer from Burnley. Pato wanted a pay rise, again something out of Martins hands. They then refused to play which led to the argument with Martin.
I can blame Martin for what happened with Piroe and I think he's handled Whittaker badly too. I also dont like his habit for throwing players under the bus after poor performances. He doesn't take the blame for things that are clearly his fault. Take Abdullai, Martin played him out of position. A young, inexperienced player, out of position who made a mistake that led to a goal I believe, he should never have been playing right back and that was martin's fault but he pit it all on the kid. Poor man management, he should have been trying to gee the kid up not sucking what was left of his confidence away.
Martin is a bang average manager with a big ego, he refuses to accept he's wrong and keeps repeating mistakes. I also do not understand some of the praise he gets on here, he's definitely a naughty boy! |
Can’t argue with any if that. Just because he’s not the reason players refused to play or want to leave, doesn’t make him a good football or man manager.
You could add Congreve to the middle paragraph. Came into the side towards the end of last season. Started this season, a few positional errors and he’s subbed early on then not heard of for half a season. I’d disagree on Whittaker. Had there been no Rangers interest, he may well have come back here and did what Ollie Cooper did after his loan spell. Neither were ready for the first team before the loans.
Agree with the last paragraph, though I’d add I also can’t understand some of the criticism he gets for things that aren’t his fault. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:54 - Jan 29 with 1183 views | STID2017 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 10:33 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
There’s no abuse here. I just don’t agree at all that those players refused to play because of him.
If we make millions on two forwards and don’t strengthen adequately, Russell Martin will be even more disappointed than you are. |
Careful not to get too sucked in mate.
Else some may accuse you of abuse or being inflammatory and report you, calling for you to be banned.
Not worth the effort mate
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 16:30 - Jan 29 with 1127 views | Luther27 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 19:25 - Jan 28 by guthrieintherain |
It's a joke really not as if we forced him to sign a 4 year contract
If we were a club with financial clout would stick all these super brats in the youth team and let them stew. |
Agree with that. It sickens me as a football supporter to see players acting like this and not just at Championship level either. Not long ago clubs were pleading poverty during Covid….how many times did ex players like Shearer say football was nothing without the supporters. Some players have quickly forgotten that. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 19:02 - Jan 29 with 1037 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 14:16 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
As I’ve said on the other thread, he started every game from the start of the season until deadline day, where he came off the bench. |
What point are you making? If you refuse to play, you don’t go on the bench… and play.
What you are saying doesn’t make sense.
He was dropped, refused to play after Martin acted the way he did.
Obafemi then tried to force a move. That simple. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 19:05 - Jan 29 with 1029 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:47 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
Can’t argue with any if that. Just because he’s not the reason players refused to play or want to leave, doesn’t make him a good football or man manager.
You could add Congreve to the middle paragraph. Came into the side towards the end of last season. Started this season, a few positional errors and he’s subbed early on then not heard of for half a season. I’d disagree on Whittaker. Had there been no Rangers interest, he may well have come back here and did what Ollie Cooper did after his loan spell. Neither were ready for the first team before the loans.
Agree with the last paragraph, though I’d add I also can’t understand some of the criticism he gets for things that aren’t his fault. |
He is the reason, as explained.
Who is Pato trying to force a move to then? His contract was sorted ages ago. You seem to be ignoring that one. They hate each other is the answer.
Whittaker isn’t playing because Martin won’t use him. That’s down to Martin.
Obafemi wanted to move, pushed the nuclear button after Martin dropped him as I taught you. | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 19:07 - Jan 29 with 1026 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 15:54 - Jan 29 by STID2017 |
Careful not to get too sucked in mate.
Else some may accuse you of abuse or being inflammatory and report you, calling for you to be banned.
Not worth the effort mate
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I don’t report anyone, because I refuse to ignore anyone.
Otherwise you end up in situations like you where you pretend to ignore someone and talk about them more than any other subject… | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 19:38 - Jan 29 with 1001 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 19:02 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
What point are you making? If you refuse to play, you don’t go on the bench… and play.
What you are saying doesn’t make sense.
He was dropped, refused to play after Martin acted the way he did.
Obafemi then tried to force a move. That simple. |
The point I’m making is he didn’t refuse to play. He was quite happy to, under Russell Martin, right up to the minute he didn’t get his move.
Are you now suggesting he refused to play because Martin benched him for one game? | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 21:33 - Jan 29 with 898 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 19:38 - Jan 29 by jack247 |
The point I’m making is he didn’t refuse to play. He was quite happy to, under Russell Martin, right up to the minute he didn’t get his move.
Are you now suggesting he refused to play because Martin benched him for one game? |
Where are you getting 1 game from?
I showed you the screenshot of his action, I’ve also gone into detail regarding the conversations had around that time.
The circled area is where he was dropped by Martin and given the explanation “run more”.
The red area is where he refused to play anymore and forced the move.
Which part are you struggling with?
He didn’t refuse to play at the first transfer window if that’s what you are suggesting, it was a mutual decision. The window was already closed, what would be the point in refusing to play?
You aren’t thinking this through in your quest to create a narrative. Especially funny when you are doing it against someone who actually knows what happened… | |
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| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:24 - Jan 30 with 781 views | jack247 |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 21:33 - Jan 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
Where are you getting 1 game from?
I showed you the screenshot of his action, I’ve also gone into detail regarding the conversations had around that time.
The circled area is where he was dropped by Martin and given the explanation “run more”.
The red area is where he refused to play anymore and forced the move.
Which part are you struggling with?
He didn’t refuse to play at the first transfer window if that’s what you are suggesting, it was a mutual decision. The window was already closed, what would be the point in refusing to play?
You aren’t thinking this through in your quest to create a narrative. Especially funny when you are doing it against someone who actually knows what happened… |
There’s absolutely no narrative, on my part at least. I’m not absolutely desperate to paint Russell Martin in a positive or negative light.
Obafemi didn’t turn up immediately after the transfer window. I’m sure you already know that. That’s not a mutual decision.
Agree with the phrase ‘forced the move’ though. | | | |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:50 - Jan 30 with 763 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| ** Whittaker agrees personal terms with Rangers but Swansea City won’t budge o on 07:24 - Jan 30 by jack247 |
There’s absolutely no narrative, on my part at least. I’m not absolutely desperate to paint Russell Martin in a positive or negative light.
Obafemi didn’t turn up immediately after the transfer window. I’m sure you already know that. That’s not a mutual decision.
Agree with the phrase ‘forced the move’ though. |
There certainly is a narrative, it’s one to blame players and make Martin out to be the innocent party in all this.
Largely, in your case, because I’m representing the opposite.
It was a mutual decision to take time off on the first transfer window. Your argument is that he tried to force a move by not playing AFTER deadline day. Makes no sense.
On the second transfer window he was dropped by Martin and given no real direction as to why. After weeks of this, he refused to play to force the move Martin pushed him into by his awful man management.
These are the facts. Facts you don’t appear to like very much… but facts all the same. | |
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