| Banter or Hate? 12:03 - Jul 21 with 3957 views | CovJet |
Dear Swans,
I’m a Wolves fan – I’m coming in peace and hoping you can help me out…
I’m a senior Lecturer at Birmingham City University, writing academic papers as part of my PhD portfolio (Koln University). My research has a focus on the language used by football fans at games – for some people it’s ‘banter’ and for others, it has become a ‘hate crime’. It is a complex, emotive issue and one in which Wolverhampton Wanderers have recently incurred a £100,000 fine from the FA, due to chants aimed at Chelsea fans during the Wolves vs Chelsea game earlier this year.
I want to find out what you think of the language used – I want you to be honest.
The questionnaire is entirely voluntary and completely anonymous. I will only use the data I obtain for academic papers and once complete I will share the data with you on this forum. I have ethical approval granted from Koln University.
I will be comparing your answers with those from supporters of Arsenal, Watford, Plymouth, Ipswich Chelsea, Brighton, Bolton, Cardiff and Newcastle.
The questionnaire should only take you a couple of minutes and I would like to thank you in advance. Here is the link:
https://questionpro.com/t/AX3L
Kind regards,
Peter Evans |  | | |  |
| Banter or Hate? on 16:03 - Jul 21 with 782 views | RhonddaSwans |
| Banter or Hate? on 15:50 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
I may be wrong but didn't the "packet of sweets and a cheeky smile" chant start after accusations were made against a former Cardiff manager? I don't understand why it continued after he'd left really. Seemed a bit stupid to me. |
Dave Jones wasn't it ? | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 16:10 - Jul 21 with 770 views | Scotia |
| Banter or Hate? on 16:03 - Jul 21 by RhonddaSwans |
Dave Jones wasn't it ? |
Think so - think the accusations were dropped though, nothing came of it. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 16:46 - Jul 21 with 737 views | Flashberryjack |
| Banter or Hate? on 15:03 - Jul 21 by Whiterockin |
Sometimes the truth hurts. |
It does, unfortunately you are not allowed to say it these days. |  |
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| Banter or Hate? on 16:56 - Jul 21 with 729 views | Whiterockin |
| Banter or Hate? on 16:46 - Jul 21 by Flashberryjack |
It does, unfortunately you are not allowed to say it these days. |
Fair comment. |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:01 - Jul 21 with 719 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Banter or Hate? on 15:13 - Jul 21 by SullutaCreturned |
What you have to take into account at any time though is context. Without the full context a lot of things could be taken as offensive.
Some people are always ready to take offence. Without being at these places at these times and ony reading the basic information I don't really feel qualified to call it anything besides football fans being dicks.
It's been a long time since I chanted anything at the football that could be taken as either. I am very careful. Even so, I don't take it personally when Englsih fans bleat at us and call us sheep worriers because I'm certain that the vast majority don't actually think it's true. |
A certain unknown proportion like me regard sheep slurs with contempt. Who knows? 10-30% in Wales?. Most of my friends and family do (not football fans) . There has never been a poll. Having seen it close up and personal I cannot accept any Welsh person would not to take offence, It is a basic human condition.
I would think a small minority of African people see no offence in Monkey noise or slurs. Both are highly offensive whatever the context.
Football fans are the same the world over and in countries of low immigration monkey slurs are still found to be amusing and a way to put Western Europeans off their game. Hungary Bulgaria for example. Some English commentators want to see English team withdraw their teams as a lesson and not use the EUFA regulations.
You refer to English fans specifically not Bulgarian or Hungarian or Russian. Is that different? I suspect some fans will accept abuse of the English but not off a Russian. If a Russian called you a sheep botherer would you take it as a joke?
The Welsh football fans wanted to internationalise the abuse. "We know what we are we know what we are we are the Welsh sheep 'shearers' off to Qatar" . Cymru am byth but thank the Lord this rabble got booted out early.
Ethnic slurs are ethnic slurs and bestiality is as bad as it gets. It is laugh or cry humour like Sala, Munich or Hillsborough. All are extremely bad taste and unacceptable for varying percentages of people.
I have noted Swansea city FC have stopped talking about "zero tolerance" . This may be because the club does not want the consequences of dealing with sheep themed racial / ethnic slurs. Stopping games and issuing warning in line with the regulations. Brush it under the carpet like the WRU did with Aparthied Rugby. Lets have a statue for the guy that played white skin only sport.
The club and the club fans perhaps are well prepared to accept a level of ethnic slurs which only offend a small percentage of football fans (like me). Welsh, African Asians Travellers should all treated with respect. Swansea it seems to me has had more racial ethnic slurs than most mostly from away fans. A comfortable home for the morons perhaps.
When some posters get on their high horse over racial / ethnic slurs i think what an hypocrites who call me 'a snowflake'.
This is historic gas lighting and cowardice. It is for "know your place" Welsh people. "Uncle Toms " in US parlance. Of course many are not particular proud of the Welsh heritage. This is another reason not to confront in your face abuse. [Post edited 21 Jul 2023 17:04]
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| Banter or Hate? on 17:17 - Jul 21 with 709 views | Scotia |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:01 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
A certain unknown proportion like me regard sheep slurs with contempt. Who knows? 10-30% in Wales?. Most of my friends and family do (not football fans) . There has never been a poll. Having seen it close up and personal I cannot accept any Welsh person would not to take offence, It is a basic human condition.
I would think a small minority of African people see no offence in Monkey noise or slurs. Both are highly offensive whatever the context.
Football fans are the same the world over and in countries of low immigration monkey slurs are still found to be amusing and a way to put Western Europeans off their game. Hungary Bulgaria for example. Some English commentators want to see English team withdraw their teams as a lesson and not use the EUFA regulations.
You refer to English fans specifically not Bulgarian or Hungarian or Russian. Is that different? I suspect some fans will accept abuse of the English but not off a Russian. If a Russian called you a sheep botherer would you take it as a joke?
The Welsh football fans wanted to internationalise the abuse. "We know what we are we know what we are we are the Welsh sheep 'shearers' off to Qatar" . Cymru am byth but thank the Lord this rabble got booted out early.
Ethnic slurs are ethnic slurs and bestiality is as bad as it gets. It is laugh or cry humour like Sala, Munich or Hillsborough. All are extremely bad taste and unacceptable for varying percentages of people.
I have noted Swansea city FC have stopped talking about "zero tolerance" . This may be because the club does not want the consequences of dealing with sheep themed racial / ethnic slurs. Stopping games and issuing warning in line with the regulations. Brush it under the carpet like the WRU did with Aparthied Rugby. Lets have a statue for the guy that played white skin only sport.
The club and the club fans perhaps are well prepared to accept a level of ethnic slurs which only offend a small percentage of football fans (like me). Welsh, African Asians Travellers should all treated with respect. Swansea it seems to me has had more racial ethnic slurs than most mostly from away fans. A comfortable home for the morons perhaps.
When some posters get on their high horse over racial / ethnic slurs i think what an hypocrites who call me 'a snowflake'.
This is historic gas lighting and cowardice. It is for "know your place" Welsh people. "Uncle Toms " in US parlance. Of course many are not particular proud of the Welsh heritage. This is another reason not to confront in your face abuse. [Post edited 21 Jul 2023 17:04]
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There is no comparison between making sheep noises to Welsh person and monkey noises to a black person. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:29 - Jul 21 with 684 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:17 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
There is no comparison between making sheep noises to Welsh person and monkey noises to a black person. |
There is a comparison and i just made it. Filthy ethnic abuse is not defined by skin colour alone. Wales in particular has trouble with this. Welsh rugby players who played 'white only' rugby have never apologised and are still feted. There is a lazy logic deficit.
I take serious offence at my ethnic group being accused of bestially. In my opinion there is something not right with any Welsh person that does not. If I accused any other ethnic group of this I would expect a kicking. I would never do this of course.
You it appears are more tolerant of sheep slurs onto Welsh people and monkey slurs onto Africans. You 'de facto' do not agree with a "zero tolerance" approach. I am keeping a close eye on Swansea city announcements.
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| Banter or Hate? on 17:29 - Jul 21 with 686 views | Scotia |
| Banter or Hate? on 15:13 - Jul 21 by SullutaCreturned |
What you have to take into account at any time though is context. Without the full context a lot of things could be taken as offensive.
Some people are always ready to take offence. Without being at these places at these times and ony reading the basic information I don't really feel qualified to call it anything besides football fans being dicks.
It's been a long time since I chanted anything at the football that could be taken as either. I am very careful. Even so, I don't take it personally when Englsih fans bleat at us and call us sheep worriers because I'm certain that the vast majority don't actually think it's true. |
This is the point. I've never had carnal relations with a sheep, at least not that I remember. I don't care if anyone calls me a sheep shagger because I'm not. | | | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 17:43 - Jul 21 with 668 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:29 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
This is the point. I've never had carnal relations with a sheep, at least not that I remember. I don't care if anyone calls me a sheep shagger because I'm not. |
Africans are not monkeys either. Let me know if it a free for all. You cannot pick and chose who is offended. I tell you, me and my friends and family are offended. Some black people laugh off monkey chants. You have no logic.
History is history. I live in the present. | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 17:46 - Jul 21 with 658 views | Whiterockin |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:29 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
This is the point. I've never had carnal relations with a sheep, at least not that I remember. I don't care if anyone calls me a sheep shagger because I'm not. |
I feel the same. But if I was I might feel uneasy. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:57 - Jul 21 with 634 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:46 - Jul 21 by Whiterockin |
I feel the same. But if I was I might feel uneasy. |
Welsh people are afraid to defend themselves. It is sad.
Making a joke out of it a is a defence mechanism to avoid a lot of unpalatable circumstances such a violence and injury at one end of the spectrum and the Swansea games being temporarily suspended on the other.
In the USA the certain old black men took the abuse as part of life or their heritage and advised acceptance. They were called "Uncle Toms". | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 18:03 - Jul 21 with 628 views | Scotia |
| Banter or Hate? on 17:29 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
There is a comparison and i just made it. Filthy ethnic abuse is not defined by skin colour alone. Wales in particular has trouble with this. Welsh rugby players who played 'white only' rugby have never apologised and are still feted. There is a lazy logic deficit.
I take serious offence at my ethnic group being accused of bestially. In my opinion there is something not right with any Welsh person that does not. If I accused any other ethnic group of this I would expect a kicking. I would never do this of course.
You it appears are more tolerant of sheep slurs onto Welsh people and monkey slurs onto Africans. You 'de facto' do not agree with a "zero tolerance" approach. I am keeping a close eye on Swansea city announcements.
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I know you made it and it's wrong, if you can't see why it's wrong you're part of the problem.
I don't care about any Welsh person being called a sheep shagger, it doesn't bother me at all. I would think the name caller is a bit pathetic but that's about it. I've lived in England and heard it plenty of times.
Genetically black people appear black and have monkey chants directed at them and Bananas thrown at them for that reason. They are called monkeys because of their appearance.
I don't look like a sheep shagger, do you? | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 18:10 - Jul 21 with 617 views | swan_si |
| Banter or Hate? on 18:03 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
I know you made it and it's wrong, if you can't see why it's wrong you're part of the problem.
I don't care about any Welsh person being called a sheep shagger, it doesn't bother me at all. I would think the name caller is a bit pathetic but that's about it. I've lived in England and heard it plenty of times.
Genetically black people appear black and have monkey chants directed at them and Bananas thrown at them for that reason. They are called monkeys because of their appearance.
I don't look like a sheep shagger, do you? |
Maybe colour has nothing to do with it, I'm sure Gareth Bale received the same abuse. |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 19:10 - Jul 21 with 563 views | Scotia |
| Banter or Hate? on 18:10 - Jul 21 by swan_si |
Maybe colour has nothing to do with it, I'm sure Gareth Bale received the same abuse. |
Have Ash Williams, Hal Robson - Kanu or Ethan Ampadu ever been called a sheep shagger by a eastern European football crowd?
Or Joe Allen. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 19:14 - Jul 21 with 553 views | Treforys_Jack |
Another thread hijacked and ruined. I'm sure the trust must be mentioned in their somewhere. |  | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 19:47 - Jul 21 with 540 views | max936 |
| Banter or Hate? on 19:14 - Jul 21 by Treforys_Jack |
Another thread hijacked and ruined. I'm sure the trust must be mentioned in their somewhere. |
Ignore Treforys it works believe me, oh the Joys! |  |
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| Banter or Hate? on 20:01 - Jul 21 with 525 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Banter or Hate? on 18:03 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
I know you made it and it's wrong, if you can't see why it's wrong you're part of the problem.
I don't care about any Welsh person being called a sheep shagger, it doesn't bother me at all. I would think the name caller is a bit pathetic but that's about it. I've lived in England and heard it plenty of times.
Genetically black people appear black and have monkey chants directed at them and Bananas thrown at them for that reason. They are called monkeys because of their appearance.
I don't look like a sheep shagger, do you? |
I am not part of the problem I am 'zero tolerant'. You are not 'zero tolerant'. I tell you that me and mine are grossly offended. You defend Black people and Pakistani's but not Welsh people like me.
The club last season claimed to be "zero tolerant of ALL racial and ethnic slurs". They do not live by their words. They may have changed their wording. Watch out for the wording next time.
The law regards Sheep slurs as "racially aggravated disorderly conduct". It is illegal but the South Wales constabulary do not enforce it as they want an easy life. I will give examples if required.
Sheep slurs suggest a serious mental condition. This defective mental condition is linked to the genetics of Welsh people is a an ethnic slur and applied to me and possibly you. It is related to genetics or defects of the brain not skin pigmentation.
If you say that is OK then why should I be concerned about any one else. Pakistanis are concerned about the abbreviation of their name. This is because they were harassed and worse by people using that name in the past. In itself the name is not is not insulting. It has connotations.
The joke phase has long past. It is out of the military barrack rooms and into political correct polite society. If Sheep slurs are acceptable then so are monkey slurs. One is, one is not in your case.
Why can fans abuse me with impunity but face jail sentences for other ethnic group abuse. It is the same filth. I saw bananas thrown black players in the Vetch 1980s. Most fans seemed to love it. We have moved on thank god. Someway to go however. It is logic.
People are rightly concerned about Africans Pakistanis and LGBT+ people. The culprits also go after the Welsh and too many on here like to give them a free pass and engage with them. The Welsh football team fans adopt their slurs as a badge of honour and attempt to internationalise it. Shameful low lives.
You were not brave enough to confront t your English taunts in England. It is not easy. Once a got to a certain age I have confront this humour calling it an ethnic slur.
On one occasion I did not as it would have involved me being seriously beaten by a younger stronger far right odd ball with a tatoo on his neck and bug eyes suggesting hallucinatory drugs. This was the job of the SW Constabulary who were MIA. | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 20:03 - Jul 21 with 518 views | Whiterockin |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:01 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am not part of the problem I am 'zero tolerant'. You are not 'zero tolerant'. I tell you that me and mine are grossly offended. You defend Black people and Pakistani's but not Welsh people like me.
The club last season claimed to be "zero tolerant of ALL racial and ethnic slurs". They do not live by their words. They may have changed their wording. Watch out for the wording next time.
The law regards Sheep slurs as "racially aggravated disorderly conduct". It is illegal but the South Wales constabulary do not enforce it as they want an easy life. I will give examples if required.
Sheep slurs suggest a serious mental condition. This defective mental condition is linked to the genetics of Welsh people is a an ethnic slur and applied to me and possibly you. It is related to genetics or defects of the brain not skin pigmentation.
If you say that is OK then why should I be concerned about any one else. Pakistanis are concerned about the abbreviation of their name. This is because they were harassed and worse by people using that name in the past. In itself the name is not is not insulting. It has connotations.
The joke phase has long past. It is out of the military barrack rooms and into political correct polite society. If Sheep slurs are acceptable then so are monkey slurs. One is, one is not in your case.
Why can fans abuse me with impunity but face jail sentences for other ethnic group abuse. It is the same filth. I saw bananas thrown black players in the Vetch 1980s. Most fans seemed to love it. We have moved on thank god. Someway to go however. It is logic.
People are rightly concerned about Africans Pakistanis and LGBT+ people. The culprits also go after the Welsh and too many on here like to give them a free pass and engage with them. The Welsh football team fans adopt their slurs as a badge of honour and attempt to internationalise it. Shameful low lives.
You were not brave enough to confront t your English taunts in England. It is not easy. Once a got to a certain age I have confront this humour calling it an ethnic slur.
On one occasion I did not as it would have involved me being seriously beaten by a younger stronger far right odd ball with a tatoo on his neck and bug eyes suggesting hallucinatory drugs. This was the job of the SW Constabulary who were MIA. |
Just pointing out that you could be black and Welsh. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:08 - Jul 21 with 506 views | Gwyn737 |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:03 - Jul 21 by Whiterockin |
Just pointing out that you could be black and Welsh. |
Not according to Resolven.
Red hair and fair skin to be ethnically Welsh according to him. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:18 - Jul 21 with 489 views | Scotia |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:01 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am not part of the problem I am 'zero tolerant'. You are not 'zero tolerant'. I tell you that me and mine are grossly offended. You defend Black people and Pakistani's but not Welsh people like me.
The club last season claimed to be "zero tolerant of ALL racial and ethnic slurs". They do not live by their words. They may have changed their wording. Watch out for the wording next time.
The law regards Sheep slurs as "racially aggravated disorderly conduct". It is illegal but the South Wales constabulary do not enforce it as they want an easy life. I will give examples if required.
Sheep slurs suggest a serious mental condition. This defective mental condition is linked to the genetics of Welsh people is a an ethnic slur and applied to me and possibly you. It is related to genetics or defects of the brain not skin pigmentation.
If you say that is OK then why should I be concerned about any one else. Pakistanis are concerned about the abbreviation of their name. This is because they were harassed and worse by people using that name in the past. In itself the name is not is not insulting. It has connotations.
The joke phase has long past. It is out of the military barrack rooms and into political correct polite society. If Sheep slurs are acceptable then so are monkey slurs. One is, one is not in your case.
Why can fans abuse me with impunity but face jail sentences for other ethnic group abuse. It is the same filth. I saw bananas thrown black players in the Vetch 1980s. Most fans seemed to love it. We have moved on thank god. Someway to go however. It is logic.
People are rightly concerned about Africans Pakistanis and LGBT+ people. The culprits also go after the Welsh and too many on here like to give them a free pass and engage with them. The Welsh football team fans adopt their slurs as a badge of honour and attempt to internationalise it. Shameful low lives.
You were not brave enough to confront t your English taunts in England. It is not easy. Once a got to a certain age I have confront this humour calling it an ethnic slur.
On one occasion I did not as it would have involved me being seriously beaten by a younger stronger far right odd ball with a tatoo on his neck and bug eyes suggesting hallucinatory drugs. This was the job of the SW Constabulary who were MIA. |
You're obviously not zero tolerant though are you?
You seem to think that an African being compared to a monkey due to his appearance and ethnicity is comparable to a Welsh person being accused of an activity they've never undertaken.
I was brave enough to challenge the comments I faced, I laughed them off because that's what they deserve. If I was gay or disabled and they'd taken the Mick out of that aspect perhaps I wouldn't have been able to laugh it off.
You've also assumed that they were English, zero tolerance hey? | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:27 - Jul 21 with 472 views | swan_si |
| Banter or Hate? on 19:10 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
Have Ash Williams, Hal Robson - Kanu or Ethan Ampadu ever been called a sheep shagger by a eastern European football crowd?
Or Joe Allen. |
I don't know, your point is? | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:29 - Jul 21 with 471 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:18 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
You're obviously not zero tolerant though are you?
You seem to think that an African being compared to a monkey due to his appearance and ethnicity is comparable to a Welsh person being accused of an activity they've never undertaken.
I was brave enough to challenge the comments I faced, I laughed them off because that's what they deserve. If I was gay or disabled and they'd taken the Mick out of that aspect perhaps I wouldn't have been able to laugh it off.
You've also assumed that they were English, zero tolerance hey? |
The abuse is almost always English unfortunately in my experience. When insulted some men laugh it off and some men do not. I doubt you were brave enough to to call them pathetic which you have don on a Welsh forum based in Wales.
The darts player Gerwyn Price is insulted continuously in the darts by drunks. I sympathise with him.
It should not happen in this day and age Sky sport turned the volume down so as the British public could not see how their underclasses behave. Sky sports went in hard on the Bulgarian FA officials who gave an apology. No action on the darts Gerwyn call himself "G" should not have a feisty attitude. He told the crowd of 4000 they were 'pathetic'. Brave man and patriot. | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 20:30 - Jul 21 with 471 views | Whiterockin |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:18 - Jul 21 by Scotia |
You're obviously not zero tolerant though are you?
You seem to think that an African being compared to a monkey due to his appearance and ethnicity is comparable to a Welsh person being accused of an activity they've never undertaken.
I was brave enough to challenge the comments I faced, I laughed them off because that's what they deserve. If I was gay or disabled and they'd taken the Mick out of that aspect perhaps I wouldn't have been able to laugh it off.
You've also assumed that they were English, zero tolerance hey? |
Exactly the point I made earlier but it went straight over the idiots head and he thought it was a joke. We laugh off the accusation because we all know it is false. If someone tries to degrade you regarding appearance, disability, gender or LGBT then that is discrimination. Simple for anyone with any sense. | | | |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:30 - Jul 21 with 471 views | onehunglow |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:29 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The abuse is almost always English unfortunately in my experience. When insulted some men laugh it off and some men do not. I doubt you were brave enough to to call them pathetic which you have don on a Welsh forum based in Wales.
The darts player Gerwyn Price is insulted continuously in the darts by drunks. I sympathise with him.
It should not happen in this day and age Sky sport turned the volume down so as the British public could not see how their underclasses behave. Sky sports went in hard on the Bulgarian FA officials who gave an apology. No action on the darts Gerwyn call himself "G" should not have a feisty attitude. He told the crowd of 4000 they were 'pathetic'. Brave man and patriot. |
Price gives the impression of being a g shyte | |
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| Banter or Hate? on 20:36 - Jul 21 with 456 views | Gwyn737 |
| Banter or Hate? on 20:29 - Jul 21 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The abuse is almost always English unfortunately in my experience. When insulted some men laugh it off and some men do not. I doubt you were brave enough to to call them pathetic which you have don on a Welsh forum based in Wales.
The darts player Gerwyn Price is insulted continuously in the darts by drunks. I sympathise with him.
It should not happen in this day and age Sky sport turned the volume down so as the British public could not see how their underclasses behave. Sky sports went in hard on the Bulgarian FA officials who gave an apology. No action on the darts Gerwyn call himself "G" should not have a feisty attitude. He told the crowd of 4000 they were 'pathetic'. Brave man and patriot. |
Jonny Clayton playing now on sky.
No sheep chants.
Why? | | | |
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