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I touched upon it un my summary on the matchday thread and stated it was the same when he took over at MK Dons.
4 reds in his first 5 games.
Same with the individual errors. These aren't unlucky, they were present at MK Dons too, its the product of the system and how he gets the players to play. Creates huge pressure on the team and any indiscipline gets magnified.
Some will be a product of the system and the positions players are forced into in order to try and save situations and others will be the indiscipline created by the frustration of these poor performances.
But coincidence it is not.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
In part possibly but noting we haven’t suddenly change our style it’s a combination of that plus the higher press we are getting as teams recognise they can put our very tight passing in our half under pressure & RM’s push for intensity from our players.
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Coincidence or ?, on 09:11 - Feb 9 with 1395 views
I believe it is a product of the system we play. If we look over the previous games then it doesn't look so alarming but teams know how we play and adapt their game. It could be argued that Bennett's was harsh but decision was a product of the system. I though he did so well to scramble and save the goal. It could be argued the ball crossed the line anyway and would he have been sent off then?
Lord_Jack increasingly detached from the riches of kicking a ball
I watched on the red button, so no replays, and a poor whispering commentator.
The last 2 reds indiscipline!! my ar$e!
I would go for the or? I don't think weve had the best from officials since the Luton away game.
Most of our troubles seem to come from our own making , loose passes, last night we switched style as called for by some.
Things are not right for some reason, from 80 possession game to last nigh looking like an under 8 side at times, , but hey ho that's football , its a strange period, and its Martins test for sure.
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Coincidence or ?, on 10:08 - Feb 9 with 1318 views
Downes lack of control when he was on a yellow (another discussion if he should have been pulled by RM) justified.
Manning second yellow for a dangerous tackle, I thought he was watching the ball and about to play it when the player cut across him and it certainly was not to the head. Referee conned, not justified.
Bennett the ball was deflected onto his arm, could have gone either way, why did the ref change a yellow to a red? undecided.
My thoughts, obliviously I stand to be corrected.
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Coincidence or ?, on 10:12 - Feb 9 with 1302 views
Downes lack of control when he was on a yellow (another discussion if he should have been pulled by RM) justified.
Manning second yellow for a dangerous tackle, I thought he was watching the ball and about to play it when the player cut across him and it certainly was not to the head. Referee conned, not justified.
Bennett the ball was deflected onto his arm, could have gone either way, why did the ref change a yellow to a red? undecided.
My thoughts, obliviously I stand to be corrected.
Two of those red's were a joke. Downes is probably right though the ref was gunning for that.
Lord_Jack increasingly detached from the riches of kicking a ball
I'm swaying towards that, would we then be having this discussion?
The problem is though, we are giving the referee a decision to make. We put ourselves under pressure, try silly passes as per management instruction and we get into trouble. We either concede silly goals or get silly cards, sometimes both.
The risk is far outweighing the benefits and we aren't improving, we have gone backwards. Whether or not referees have it in for us, cheat or are just useless, we give them a decision to make and we usually get punished.
Players are under pressure from the time our keeper collects the ball which then winds it’s way around players who have to fall back to collect the ball. When opposition put them under pressure they crack,which is why playing as we do is dumb beyond belief.
Downes is not a defender and never will be . The lad is our best player and stuck at left back to receive a ball from keeper who then strokes it 10 yards .
Players are under pressure from the time our keeper collects the ball which then winds it’s way around players who have to fall back to collect the ball. When opposition put them under pressure they crack,which is why playing as we do is dumb beyond belief.
Downes is not a defender and never will be . The lad is our best player and stuck at left back to receive a ball from keeper who then strokes it 10 yards .
It's the pointless passing that gets me. Why does grimes so often come back 10 yards to get the ball just to pass it straight back to whoever gave it to him, that person then has no room because Grimes is 6 ft away with oppo players closing down so he turns and passes it sideways or backwards, we get penned in and make mistakes. Rinse, repeat ad nauseam.
Better to try the 50/50 ball for our forward to chase and at least make the oppo start their attack from 70 yards out than to gift them possession 25 yards out. I think Piroe must be sick f making runs and the pass not being attempted. Obafemi has pace but we don't use it. it's pointless possession, pointless passing which is translating into far too many pointless games.
Any improvements we had seen, any steps forward have just vanished. Confidence must be affected.
Coincidence or ?, on 17:59 - Feb 10 by KeithHaynes
Retain possession, it’s the future of football.
Yes, if you have the players capable. Until or unless the club has the millions to spend on such players we need to play a style that won't get us relegated.
If the owners are happy to see a relegation then it's their choice. Right now we don't look in much danger but if they can't afford the players Martin needs next season there could be problems. I don't see Piroe wanting to stay, or a few others, if we are clearly going nowhere.
Yes, if you have the players capable. Until or unless the club has the millions to spend on such players we need to play a style that won't get us relegated.
If the owners are happy to see a relegation then it's their choice. Right now we don't look in much danger but if they can't afford the players Martin needs next season there could be problems. I don't see Piroe wanting to stay, or a few others, if we are clearly going nowhere.
We won’t go down, but I’ll say it now, we may make the playoffs 😉😲
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
It's the pointless passing that gets me. Why does grimes so often come back 10 yards to get the ball just to pass it straight back to whoever gave it to him, that person then has no room because Grimes is 6 ft away with oppo players closing down so he turns and passes it sideways or backwards, we get penned in and make mistakes. Rinse, repeat ad nauseam.
Better to try the 50/50 ball for our forward to chase and at least make the oppo start their attack from 70 yards out than to gift them possession 25 yards out. I think Piroe must be sick f making runs and the pass not being attempted. Obafemi has pace but we don't use it. it's pointless possession, pointless passing which is translating into far too many pointless games.
Any improvements we had seen, any steps forward have just vanished. Confidence must be affected.
If people actually watch we will see a keeper passing left then receiving it right in front of his goalmouth. He then strokes it forward to Grime who has ran backwards to receive the ball;he then kicks it wide and then its either a throw in to the opposition or we lose the ball and they attack. Why?
In midfield Grime receives the ball and exchanges passes as a matter of habit. No point in simply passing the ball 2 yards to get it back and repeat.
All other clubs can see this apart from our fans.
It aint funny.. Martin says they are not fit enough to play the way he wants to which the obvious answer is don't;play to your strengths .Drop Grimes,make Downes captain and shove him midfield .Also abandon forever Koey Smith.
If people actually watch we will see a keeper passing left then receiving it right in front of his goalmouth. He then strokes it forward to Grime who has ran backwards to receive the ball;he then kicks it wide and then its either a throw in to the opposition or we lose the ball and they attack. Why?
In midfield Grime receives the ball and exchanges passes as a matter of habit. No point in simply passing the ball 2 yards to get it back and repeat.
All other clubs can see this apart from our fans.
It aint funny.. Martin says they are not fit enough to play the way he wants to which the obvious answer is don't;play to your strengths .Drop Grimes,make Downes captain and shove him midfield .Also abandon forever Koey Smith.
Grime 😂 you kill me.
A great believer in taking anything you like to wherever you want to.
It is a myth that you need man city players on big wages to play possession based football. Brendan played at the back with De Vries Taylor Tate Monk Williams Rangel and Gower and Allen in midfield. Pressure what pressure?
They got t roughed up a few ties away at Derby and Burnley I recall but that took g huge effort by them . I recall Stan Tennant and Phil Brown reflecting on victories by massive workrate that cannot be repeated too often.
Martin is at the same place Brendan was at Reading and Watford. He left Watford and got sacked by Reading.
Leon Brittan and Kristian O'Leary have seen it all and compare the two eras of Brendan ? Martinez and Martin. Leon's perspective as head of football under Birch would be instructive.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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Coincidence or ?, on 22:29 - Feb 10 with 857 views
Coincidence or ?, on 18:55 - Feb 10 by ReslovenSwan1
It is a myth that you need man city players on big wages to play possession based football. Brendan played at the back with De Vries Taylor Tate Monk Williams Rangel and Gower and Allen in midfield. Pressure what pressure?
They got t roughed up a few ties away at Derby and Burnley I recall but that took g huge effort by them . I recall Stan Tennant and Phil Brown reflecting on victories by massive workrate that cannot be repeated too often.
Martin is at the same place Brendan was at Reading and Watford. He left Watford and got sacked by Reading.
Leon Brittan and Kristian O'Leary have seen it all and compare the two eras of Brendan ? Martinez and Martin. Leon's perspective as head of football under Birch would be instructive.
It isn’t a myth because nobody has claimed that.
A local under 11’s can play possession football. You don’t need to be world class to do so.
But playing Brendan and Martinez’ football is a world away from what we are playing under Martin. That does cross the territory to needing a Busquets in midfield to quickly move the ball on and maybe a Ramos in defence.
We used to get in the region of 58% possession under Rodgers, we bet 70% under Martin. Under Rodgers we utilised out balls and wingers meaning the opposition couldn’t commit to the press (a key equaliser at this level) because they would know that the likes of Sinclair or Dyer would be moving into the space left and Williams would ping a long ball out to one of them and we would score in seconds.
Leon used to have all the time in the world to move the attack on because it was far too dangerous to press us, we were incisive, direct and purposeful.
You can’t call this “possession football” and suggest it is remotely similar. This is 95% short passing, refusal to go long, no width everything through a central position. To do that when you are under severe pressure as the opponents know you won’t expose the space they leave by going direct/long - you need some world class ball players in there.
That’s just the way it is.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
It's the pointless passing that gets me. Why does grimes so often come back 10 yards to get the ball just to pass it straight back to whoever gave it to him, that person then has no room because Grimes is 6 ft away with oppo players closing down so he turns and passes it sideways or backwards, we get penned in and make mistakes. Rinse, repeat ad nauseam.
Better to try the 50/50 ball for our forward to chase and at least make the oppo start their attack from 70 yards out than to gift them possession 25 yards out. I think Piroe must be sick f making runs and the pass not being attempted. Obafemi has pace but we don't use it. it's pointless possession, pointless passing which is translating into far too many pointless games.
Any improvements we had seen, any steps forward have just vanished. Confidence must be affected.
So true why RM can't see this is beyond belief
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Coincidence or ?, on 12:37 - Feb 11 with 719 views
Coincidence or ?, on 18:18 - Feb 10 by KeithHaynes
We won’t go down, but I’ll say it now, we may make the playoffs 😉😲
That is extremely hopeful to say the least.
I just read the link comparing Rodgers and Laudrup, what is annoying is, a pundit once accused Swansea of passing for the sake of passing, that most of our passes were along the back line which is why we made so many passes. Yet what happened under Rodgers (that was criticised) pales into insignificance compared to Russell Martins system.
Under Rodgers we used width and when the chance came we moved quickly, our wingers were free to cross or cut inside. Yet under Martin we push wing backs so high up they can't defend, we have no pace and we don't put many crosses in. We inevitably choose to keep possession and pass backwards rather than try a more risky pass. Only Pato really tries crossing but often not from out wide, more from inside right or left than from the wings. That's because we never get in behind oppo defences.
Any pace we have has been nullified. Any attacking intent has been replaced by caution and any bravado we had has been replaced by fear of making mistakes which, ironically, leads to making mistakes.
Martin says we are not fit enough to play his way after 6 months here yet still he persists with something he admits we cannot do.
We are only 11 points off the play offs, it should be possible but not while we are so slow, predictable and easy to beat even for mediocre teams.
I've looked now and the truth about this weekend is, we should beat, and need to beat Bristol. Failure this weekend will really see the pressure ramp up.
I just read the link comparing Rodgers and Laudrup, what is annoying is, a pundit once accused Swansea of passing for the sake of passing, that most of our passes were along the back line which is why we made so many passes. Yet what happened under Rodgers (that was criticised) pales into insignificance compared to Russell Martins system.
Under Rodgers we used width and when the chance came we moved quickly, our wingers were free to cross or cut inside. Yet under Martin we push wing backs so high up they can't defend, we have no pace and we don't put many crosses in. We inevitably choose to keep possession and pass backwards rather than try a more risky pass. Only Pato really tries crossing but often not from out wide, more from inside right or left than from the wings. That's because we never get in behind oppo defences.
Any pace we have has been nullified. Any attacking intent has been replaced by caution and any bravado we had has been replaced by fear of making mistakes which, ironically, leads to making mistakes.
Martin says we are not fit enough to play his way after 6 months here yet still he persists with something he admits we cannot do.
We are only 11 points off the play offs, it should be possible but not while we are so slow, predictable and easy to beat even for mediocre teams.
I've looked now and the truth about this weekend is, we should beat, and need to beat Bristol. Failure this weekend will really see the pressure ramp up.
What is it 8-9 games before the derby? and we have some tough fixtures before that, he has too sort it out soon , or hes heading for a storm.
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Coincidence or ?, on 14:23 - Feb 11 with 684 views
Coincidence or ?, on 13:29 - Feb 11 by swan65split
What is it 8-9 games before the derby? and we have some tough fixtures before that, he has too sort it out soon , or hes heading for a storm.
Yes think the next ten games could be crucial Hopefully he will take heed and change things about otherwise he could indeed be facing a barrage of abuse
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
Yes think the next ten games could be crucial Hopefully he will take heed and change things about otherwise he could indeed be facing a barrage of abuse
Hes got about 3 games ?? to get us going again. hopefully fitness and the signings start to click.
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