| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again 18:25 - Dec 11 with 2111 views | SwansIndependent |
Just simply awful Swansea, click above.
Twitter below.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:37 - Dec 11 with 1643 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
At what point will the blame shift from the individual defenders to the person deciding to play defenders out of position?
It's as if Martin saw the praise that Potter has received for converting Dan Burns into a full back and is trying to replicate that here.
Unfortunately, our players are not talented enough to play out of position. Many struggle at this level playing even in their "best" positions after all. |  |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:38 - Dec 11 with 1636 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:37 - Dec 11 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
At what point will the blame shift from the individual defenders to the person deciding to play defenders out of position?
It's as if Martin saw the praise that Potter has received for converting Dan Burns into a full back and is trying to replicate that here.
Unfortunately, our players are not talented enough to play out of position. Many struggle at this level playing even in their "best" positions after all. |
Absolutely agree. |  |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:49 - Dec 11 with 1599 views | 3swan |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:38 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
Absolutely agree. |
Wanting to play his style yes. Wanting to play his style with the wrong players no. You just don't implement a style and be oblivious to the repeating mistakes due to players not being comfortable. He also has a responsibility to the fans in giving them a performance that gets results. | | | |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:53 - Dec 11 with 1581 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:49 - Dec 11 by 3swan |
Wanting to play his style yes. Wanting to play his style with the wrong players no. You just don't implement a style and be oblivious to the repeating mistakes due to players not being comfortable. He also has a responsibility to the fans in giving them a performance that gets results. |
It is annoying he is learning his trade at our expense at times. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 19:00 - Dec 11 with 1561 views | 3swan |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:53 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
It is annoying he is learning his trade at our expense at times. |
Only time will tell if he is learning his trade or being stubborn or who is ego driven. It is more than frustrating seeing mistakes time and time again. It's a result based business and if in training we don't play at temp we can't expect much more in games [Post edited 11 Dec 2021 19:01]
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:01 - Dec 11 with 1387 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:37 - Dec 11 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
At what point will the blame shift from the individual defenders to the person deciding to play defenders out of position?
It's as if Martin saw the praise that Potter has received for converting Dan Burns into a full back and is trying to replicate that here.
Unfortunately, our players are not talented enough to play out of position. Many struggle at this level playing even in their "best" positions after all. |
It is pitifully obvious.
I am genuinely staggered Martin has any support right now.
Players are uncomfortable clearly.Williams was expoed lat week,Cabango today but these are not bad players but made to look bad by this coach.
We would not have conceded any today had we had two centre halves playing where they should -in the centre.
Downes right now is being scorched and ruined ;a great young talent wasted. Today,to protect him,Martin should have hooked him.He didnt and that should show just how bad a judge he is. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:09 - Dec 11 with 1378 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:01 - Dec 11 by onehunglow |
It is pitifully obvious.
I am genuinely staggered Martin has any support right now.
Players are uncomfortable clearly.Williams was expoed lat week,Cabango today but these are not bad players but made to look bad by this coach.
We would not have conceded any today had we had two centre halves playing where they should -in the centre.
Downes right now is being scorched and ruined ;a great young talent wasted. Today,to protect him,Martin should have hooked him.He didnt and that should show just how bad a judge he is. |
Isn’t good at the moment, but this continual anti Martin theme doesn't mean anything, he is going nowhere. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:24 - Dec 11 with 1311 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:09 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
Isn’t good at the moment, but this continual anti Martin theme doesn't mean anything, he is going nowhere. |
You never know.
Lose the next 6 games and he will and that COULD happen.
We cannot go on like this and Martin should admit it and change it. The player are there to make a decent team.
All this Martin love is getting us nowhere. It looks rather creepy as there is no obvious reason for such love.
Jesus,to think of the crepe Paolo Sousa had. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:24 - Dec 11 with 1323 views | dobjack2 |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:09 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
Isn’t good at the moment, but this continual anti Martin theme doesn't mean anything, he is going nowhere. |
Appointing Martin signalled part of an overhaul of everything at the club. His style of playing is not a quick fix and those behind the scenes know that. | | | |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:35 - Dec 11 with 1286 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:24 - Dec 11 by dobjack2 |
Appointing Martin signalled part of an overhaul of everything at the club. His style of playing is not a quick fix and those behind the scenes know that. |
And the style is what you are seeing now. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:40 - Dec 11 with 1286 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:24 - Dec 11 by onehunglow |
You never know.
Lose the next 6 games and he will and that COULD happen.
We cannot go on like this and Martin should admit it and change it. The player are there to make a decent team.
All this Martin love is getting us nowhere. It looks rather creepy as there is no obvious reason for such love.
Jesus,to think of the crepe Paolo Sousa had. |
We won’t lose the next six games, but I’m telling you now, if he did he wouldn’t be sacked. We have accept it. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:58 - Dec 11 with 1238 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:40 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
We won’t lose the next six games, but I’m telling you now, if he did he wouldn’t be sacked. We have accept it. |
Right now,I agree and disagree with everything.
My head is cabbaged with it all. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:59 - Dec 11 with 1246 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:40 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
We won’t lose the next six games, but I’m telling you now, if he did he wouldn’t be sacked. We have accept it. |
Like I’ve already said he messed the defence up just not to include Bidwell (who may or may not be leaving. Surely just play your best 11 as needed and worry about that later |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 21:00 - Dec 11 with 1227 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:59 - Dec 11 by Brynmill_Jack |
Like I’ve already said he messed the defence up just not to include Bidwell (who may or may not be leaving. Surely just play your best 11 as needed and worry about that later |
Pick the best players available is always the best | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 21:03 - Dec 11 with 1235 views | KeithHaynes |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:59 - Dec 11 by Brynmill_Jack |
Like I’ve already said he messed the defence up just not to include Bidwell (who may or may not be leaving. Surely just play your best 11 as needed and worry about that later |
The fact Bidwell is leaving, and since that’s been an issue has caused us huge Problems. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 22:48 - Dec 11 with 1130 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:24 - Dec 11 by dobjack2 |
Appointing Martin signalled part of an overhaul of everything at the club. His style of playing is not a quick fix and those behind the scenes know that. |
But when has his style ever worked? Let's be sensible here.
To me the style seems utterly senseless. So we go to his history to see if it has been a success elsewhere, to know what we are working towards.
We have a 19th and a 13th place finish for MK Dons in League 1, who are now top 10 since a new manager has come in and changed it.
We now find ourselves 16th approaching Xmas.
What we are getting seems to be what its all about, there is no evidence to suggest what we are doing reaps any rewards at all. Is there?
If I am wrong and missing something then tell me. |  |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 22:54 - Dec 11 with 1125 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:24 - Dec 11 by dobjack2 |
Appointing Martin signalled part of an overhaul of everything at the club. His style of playing is not a quick fix and those behind the scenes know that. |
His style of play is not proven. It isn't as if we know we have go go through a tough teething period before everything "clicks", such as Guardiola's first few years at Man City.
Russell Martin has not proven his style of play can be successful. It wasn't at MK Dons and it is not here.
How long do we wait for the "fix" before we move on? I'd like to think that providing we show consistent signs of improvement, he would be allowed multiple seasons. However, I don't particularly think we have improved much at all since the truly woeful first game of the season. All that has changed is that we no longer try to play triangles in our 6 yard box with the goalkeeper.
If anything, it has gotten worse. I don't recall him playing centre backs at full back during the first few weeks. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 00:16 - Dec 12 with 1060 views | Fireboy2 |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 18:37 - Dec 11 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
At what point will the blame shift from the individual defenders to the person deciding to play defenders out of position?
It's as if Martin saw the praise that Potter has received for converting Dan Burns into a full back and is trying to replicate that here.
Unfortunately, our players are not talented enough to play out of position. Many struggle at this level playing even in their "best" positions after all. |
Our? This is a swansea city forum not a yernited one young man. |  | | |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 02:19 - Dec 12 with 1015 views | dobjack2 |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 22:54 - Dec 11 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
His style of play is not proven. It isn't as if we know we have go go through a tough teething period before everything "clicks", such as Guardiola's first few years at Man City.
Russell Martin has not proven his style of play can be successful. It wasn't at MK Dons and it is not here.
How long do we wait for the "fix" before we move on? I'd like to think that providing we show consistent signs of improvement, he would be allowed multiple seasons. However, I don't particularly think we have improved much at all since the truly woeful first game of the season. All that has changed is that we no longer try to play triangles in our 6 yard box with the goalkeeper.
If anything, it has gotten worse. I don't recall him playing centre backs at full back during the first few weeks. |
Martin hasnt invented the style of 3 centre backs and pushed forward wing backs. For it to work effectively the outside centre backs need to be mobile and agile and the central man to be both strong in the air and able to bring the ball out.
If the outside centre backs aren't mobile enough fast counters on the outside when we lose the ball are devastating and if the central man loses position it looks awful. It's a system that either works well or falls apart and we have seen both. I also believe the system works best when the ball is moved progressively and quickly through the midfield. Slowing it down allows the opposition to move back into shape.
Opposition coaches know the strengths and weaknesses of this system. I believe the biggest weakness is where an outside centre back does not have the skill set to deal with fast counters.
Clearly some of the players at his disposal can't adapt to what Martin wants. The squad needs both trimming and strengthening without splashing the cash we don't have. That requires both clever work in the transfer market and time.
Too many fans want instant success. Whilst I can see what Martin wants to do he needs at least 2 windows to reshape the squad. I'll judge him this time next year. | | | |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 02:25 - Dec 12 with 1005 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 02:19 - Dec 12 by dobjack2 |
Martin hasnt invented the style of 3 centre backs and pushed forward wing backs. For it to work effectively the outside centre backs need to be mobile and agile and the central man to be both strong in the air and able to bring the ball out.
If the outside centre backs aren't mobile enough fast counters on the outside when we lose the ball are devastating and if the central man loses position it looks awful. It's a system that either works well or falls apart and we have seen both. I also believe the system works best when the ball is moved progressively and quickly through the midfield. Slowing it down allows the opposition to move back into shape.
Opposition coaches know the strengths and weaknesses of this system. I believe the biggest weakness is where an outside centre back does not have the skill set to deal with fast counters.
Clearly some of the players at his disposal can't adapt to what Martin wants. The squad needs both trimming and strengthening without splashing the cash we don't have. That requires both clever work in the transfer market and time.
Too many fans want instant success. Whilst I can see what Martin wants to do he needs at least 2 windows to reshape the squad. I'll judge him this time next year. |
Nothing to do with instant success. It is about approaching it smartly... If we don't have the players to play this system then it is madness to do it.
Manage the situation and adapt until we have the players required, it is literally his job. So instant success has nothing to do with it.
Would you enter a marathon with a broken leg? Or would you adapt your plan until you have tools to be able to do it?
By continuing despite knowing you aren't fit enough to do it may well cause the long term plan serious damage. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 2:30]
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 06:23 - Dec 12 with 970 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 20:59 - Dec 11 by Brynmill_Jack |
Like I’ve already said he messed the defence up just not to include Bidwell (who may or may not be leaving. Surely just play your best 11 as needed and worry about that later |
Best 11 in their best positions is a basic of team selection. Playing too many players out of position is a recipe for disaster. Why is he also playing two midfielders in the centre of defence?
Grimes and Downes should be playing in front of a proper back four.
Martin seems stubborn refusing to play centre backs as centre backs. His not selection of Fulton is also a worry. | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 10:02 - Dec 12 with 878 views | dobjack2 |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 02:25 - Dec 12 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nothing to do with instant success. It is about approaching it smartly... If we don't have the players to play this system then it is madness to do it.
Manage the situation and adapt until we have the players required, it is literally his job. So instant success has nothing to do with it.
Would you enter a marathon with a broken leg? Or would you adapt your plan until you have tools to be able to do it?
By continuing despite knowing you aren't fit enough to do it may well cause the long term plan serious damage. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 2:30]
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We'll disagree then about whether this is about instant success.
Martin wants to play a system and is coaching and developing players to play it. Some will develop into it, others won't. Those that won't will eventually leave.
Your broken leg analogy is a bit silly. Martin has had to find out who is capable of playing the way he wants in real games as he had no pre-season with them. Each marathon starts with a single step and training and work to build up to a marathon.
We will need to wheel and deal over the next couple of windows to get players with the specific skill sets he is after. That is going to be a tough ask with but we need a good window in January.
This season is almost certainly a reset season unless we can transform the side in one window, which is unlikely. Therefore this time next year will give us a better idea of whether Martin will succeed here. | | | |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 15:15 - Dec 12 with 821 views | max936 |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 02:19 - Dec 12 by dobjack2 |
Martin hasnt invented the style of 3 centre backs and pushed forward wing backs. For it to work effectively the outside centre backs need to be mobile and agile and the central man to be both strong in the air and able to bring the ball out.
If the outside centre backs aren't mobile enough fast counters on the outside when we lose the ball are devastating and if the central man loses position it looks awful. It's a system that either works well or falls apart and we have seen both. I also believe the system works best when the ball is moved progressively and quickly through the midfield. Slowing it down allows the opposition to move back into shape.
Opposition coaches know the strengths and weaknesses of this system. I believe the biggest weakness is where an outside centre back does not have the skill set to deal with fast counters.
Clearly some of the players at his disposal can't adapt to what Martin wants. The squad needs both trimming and strengthening without splashing the cash we don't have. That requires both clever work in the transfer market and time.
Too many fans want instant success. Whilst I can see what Martin wants to do he needs at least 2 windows to reshape the squad. I'll judge him this time next year. |
He could well have the next two windows, but he's unlikely to get the players who can play his idealistic way, we won't have the funds to buy those players he craves for, those players are out of our budget. |  |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 15:19 - Dec 12 with 806 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 00:16 - Dec 12 by Fireboy2 |
Our? This is a swansea city forum not a yernited one young man. |
Yep.OURS
Your point is what .? | |
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| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 15:20 - Dec 12 with 803 views | onehunglow |
| Swansea City exposed after suicidal defending yet again on 15:15 - Dec 12 by max936 |
He could well have the next two windows, but he's unlikely to get the players who can play his idealistic way, we won't have the funds to buy those players he craves for, those players are out of our budget. |
Which just about buggers up his project.
We are where we are | |
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