| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? 08:45 - Nov 28 with 1792 views | SwansIndependent |
The correct way to dissect and apply some critical thought above.
Twitter below.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 09:02 - Nov 28 with 1751 views | Dr_Winston |
Martin has a number of questions to answer over the Obafemi/Whittaker situation. Neither have looked unfit in any of the games that they've played, but both have continually been overlooked in favour of the (let's face it, we all realise it now) just not good enough Liam Cullen.
Whittaker scored a hat trick against Plymouth in the League Cup. Cullen started the next game. If you were a young footballer, would that motivate you? Wages are irrelevant. It was a bad piece of man management and it's continuing.
To be honest I'm slightly sympathetic to their cause. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 09:42 - Nov 28 with 1688 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 09:02 - Nov 28 by Dr_Winston |
Martin has a number of questions to answer over the Obafemi/Whittaker situation. Neither have looked unfit in any of the games that they've played, but both have continually been overlooked in favour of the (let's face it, we all realise it now) just not good enough Liam Cullen.
Whittaker scored a hat trick against Plymouth in the League Cup. Cullen started the next game. If you were a young footballer, would that motivate you? Wages are irrelevant. It was a bad piece of man management and it's continuing.
To be honest I'm slightly sympathetic to their cause. |
Aye he blames it on fitness and conditioning and yet there other players who can’t last the full 90 and are blowing out their arse after 20 minutes playing 3 games a week. | | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 10:30 - Nov 28 with 1593 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 09:42 - Nov 28 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
Aye he blames it on fitness and conditioning and yet there other players who can’t last the full 90 and are blowing out their arse after 20 minutes playing 3 games a week. |
Manning is far better as a left sided centre half than a wing back. Was Bidwell really that tired? I 100% agree (as everyone is now sick of hearing no doubt) about the Grimes illusion and how it mesmerises all the managers he plays for. His limitations stood out like a sore thumb yesterday and his lack of leadership was blaring in the extreme. Rhys Williams badly needed coaxing through that game and he never got it. Two out of the back three were targeted and Reading did it well most of the game.
Maybe it’s the smack in the chops we needed to wake us up a bit. The play offs are well achievable but we must start filling those gaping holes that Keith mentions in his article or it’s mid table at best this season. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 10:55 - Nov 28 with 1552 views | vetchonian |
well given that many were stating they would expect nothing more than mid table I guess many fans will be happy.
I am cautious of posting for fear of being branded negative or pining for Cooper...but as this article states the time for questions is here.
Maybe Martin lacks the managerial maturity to deal with certain situations.
what are these teaching and training methods that it seems only two players
have issue with?
Whittaker
As Doc W States Martin's handling of Whittaker is questionable...dropping himafter scoring a hat trick for Cullen who has contributed what...in all walks of life this would prompt a reaction from the one feeling wronged. imagine you put in a good performance at work yet you are overlooked for someone who tries hard but rarely achieves.
our defence is still not right given we have talent such as Cabango and Cooperwhy the rush to use loaned.. we have Manning Bennet Cabango Cooper as well as Naughton capable of playing in a back 3 yet we still went for William's.
I am not convinced of Naughton playing in the centre fine on the right or left of a back 3 and he could still be used as the outlet from Hamer in that position allowing Bennet or Cabango to sit in the middle. Our current set up has been exposed several times yet our manager is reluctant to change the arrangement just the supporting personnel.
We purport to want to play attractive attacking football but in reality the philosophy is possesion and trying to wear down the opposition...we did seem to get mixing it bit of late we have reverted. Blackpool kept us in our own half by playing a high back line and compressing our Space happy for us to keep the ball passing it sideways and backwards.they were happy to push up and leave space behind knowing we would not be looking to dink a ball over the top behind them but would look to work it out to the wing backs who they always kept well marked....pires and laird first penalty hours resulted from ball played through to space this caught Blackpoolmout.
maybe our coaching team and DoF need to sit and review some videos see what has been working and what has not. Maybe these nonconformj g players need some one to one conversations rather than being publically humiliated. | |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 11:27 - Nov 28 with 1502 views | 3swan |
Excellent words Keith. There does seem to be more than one or two issues bubbling away. As you say we understand the change in tactics, but blind faith in some players to the exclusion of others had to be questioned. I posted in another thread that some players are robotic and not relaxed in games. It seems more of being drummed into playing to the style than seeing what's in front of them. No meant as a criticism but some players will never be at ease in this system. As supporters we are allowed to question and expect progress, whilst some things are improving it is blatantly obvious that the simple silly mistakes aren't being eradicated | | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 11:39 - Nov 28 with 1488 views | dobjack2 |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 09:02 - Nov 28 by Dr_Winston |
Martin has a number of questions to answer over the Obafemi/Whittaker situation. Neither have looked unfit in any of the games that they've played, but both have continually been overlooked in favour of the (let's face it, we all realise it now) just not good enough Liam Cullen.
Whittaker scored a hat trick against Plymouth in the League Cup. Cullen started the next game. If you were a young footballer, would that motivate you? Wages are irrelevant. It was a bad piece of man management and it's continuing.
To be honest I'm slightly sympathetic to their cause. |
Whittaker was frustrated with a lack of game time at Derby. Realistically he is behind Piroe, Cullen and Obafemi. Whether fans believe he should be In that position or whatever the reasons are that he is in that position that is the case. The lack of game time must be extremely frustrating for him on top how he felt at Derby and his loan move to Lincoln breaking down at the last minute. Needed that loan move and game time IMHO.
Obafemi- attitude rumours have never really left him. It would be sad if this was true for his sake let alone the club's investment in him. Whatever the reasons behind his absence it's not doing the team any good and need to be sorted.
Fulton is clearly off in January and we appear to be pretending that he has already gone. Must be way off match fitness now.
A number of big issues for the management team coming up. | | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 11:40 - Nov 28 with 1487 views | NotLoyal |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 10:55 - Nov 28 by vetchonian |
well given that many were stating they would expect nothing more than mid table I guess many fans will be happy.
I am cautious of posting for fear of being branded negative or pining for Cooper...but as this article states the time for questions is here.
Maybe Martin lacks the managerial maturity to deal with certain situations.
what are these teaching and training methods that it seems only two players
have issue with?
Whittaker
As Doc W States Martin's handling of Whittaker is questionable...dropping himafter scoring a hat trick for Cullen who has contributed what...in all walks of life this would prompt a reaction from the one feeling wronged. imagine you put in a good performance at work yet you are overlooked for someone who tries hard but rarely achieves.
our defence is still not right given we have talent such as Cabango and Cooperwhy the rush to use loaned.. we have Manning Bennet Cabango Cooper as well as Naughton capable of playing in a back 3 yet we still went for William's.
I am not convinced of Naughton playing in the centre fine on the right or left of a back 3 and he could still be used as the outlet from Hamer in that position allowing Bennet or Cabango to sit in the middle. Our current set up has been exposed several times yet our manager is reluctant to change the arrangement just the supporting personnel.
We purport to want to play attractive attacking football but in reality the philosophy is possesion and trying to wear down the opposition...we did seem to get mixing it bit of late we have reverted. Blackpool kept us in our own half by playing a high back line and compressing our Space happy for us to keep the ball passing it sideways and backwards.they were happy to push up and leave space behind knowing we would not be looking to dink a ball over the top behind them but would look to work it out to the wing backs who they always kept well marked....pires and laird first penalty hours resulted from ball played through to space this caught Blackpoolmout.
maybe our coaching team and DoF need to sit and review some videos see what has been working and what has not. Maybe these nonconformj g players need some one to one conversations rather than being publically humiliated. |
That's a lot of words for fear of being branded negative. The continuous mantra of negativity in the past few months against the manager was and is unacceptable. That's the issue, not being able to discuss and debate a point of view without swiping at others. Even I get that. |  |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 11:54 - Nov 28 with 1461 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Seeing us pass and pass and pass around the defence and two defensive midfielders (4th and 5th centre backs) with no purpose, before Ntcham or somebody else finally gets the ball and completely abandons Martinball by trying to take someone on or shooting from 25 yards, continues to make me laugh.
Especially as it appears most of our chances are created when someone finally abandons Martinball and tries something else.
I can't think of many examples where we've dragged players out of position and actually worked our way behind an opponent's defence through a period of possession. The Barnsley goal is a beautiful example of this. 32+ passes before Ntcham has had enough, and Piroe blasts a highly speculative shot from 25 yards. |  |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:15 - Nov 28 with 1441 views | nantywatcher |
Do not agree with too much of the OP (and would be rather gutted with myself if I did.) So many positives from yesterday - the 2 goals were well crafted, the disallowed Piroe goal was superbly created, the moves in the second half that carved open their defence to be thwarted by goal mouth scrambles showed top class creativity.
Whittaker - and his magic hat trick. He was garbage in the game against Plymouth and should never have been subbed long before he scored. A bit like Patto - he scores some lovely goals but football is about more than that and he is by in large a liability in anything that resembles a battle. Laird is awful at defending and recently just as bad in his attacking role. Bennett is not a first team player. I, for one, liked the look of Williams in the second half- well worth persevering with. Naughton has been superb the last few games and probably feels worse than anyone about his under hit pass. Such a pity about Fulton being an outcast because with him in the set up I could still see a play off position at the end of the season (we would be there now if we had the two home wins we should have had in the last week!) | | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:21 - Nov 28 with 1412 views | NotLoyal |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:15 - Nov 28 by nantywatcher |
Do not agree with too much of the OP (and would be rather gutted with myself if I did.) So many positives from yesterday - the 2 goals were well crafted, the disallowed Piroe goal was superbly created, the moves in the second half that carved open their defence to be thwarted by goal mouth scrambles showed top class creativity.
Whittaker - and his magic hat trick. He was garbage in the game against Plymouth and should never have been subbed long before he scored. A bit like Patto - he scores some lovely goals but football is about more than that and he is by in large a liability in anything that resembles a battle. Laird is awful at defending and recently just as bad in his attacking role. Bennett is not a first team player. I, for one, liked the look of Williams in the second half- well worth persevering with. Naughton has been superb the last few games and probably feels worse than anyone about his under hit pass. Such a pity about Fulton being an outcast because with him in the set up I could still see a play off position at the end of the season (we would be there now if we had the two home wins we should have had in the last week!) |
You agree then the exclusion of players who could change the gabecis OK? That's the point I took from it.
Nothing more.
However you then agree with the op on laird, Bennett etc. Did you read it 😂 [Post edited 28 Nov 2021 12:25]
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:39 - Nov 28 with 1382 views | KeithHaynes |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:15 - Nov 28 by nantywatcher |
Do not agree with too much of the OP (and would be rather gutted with myself if I did.) So many positives from yesterday - the 2 goals were well crafted, the disallowed Piroe goal was superbly created, the moves in the second half that carved open their defence to be thwarted by goal mouth scrambles showed top class creativity.
Whittaker - and his magic hat trick. He was garbage in the game against Plymouth and should never have been subbed long before he scored. A bit like Patto - he scores some lovely goals but football is about more than that and he is by in large a liability in anything that resembles a battle. Laird is awful at defending and recently just as bad in his attacking role. Bennett is not a first team player. I, for one, liked the look of Williams in the second half- well worth persevering with. Naughton has been superb the last few games and probably feels worse than anyone about his under hit pass. Such a pity about Fulton being an outcast because with him in the set up I could still see a play off position at the end of the season (we would be there now if we had the two home wins we should have had in the last week!) |
Good assessment, we agree on many things, they are obvious thing though, I hope Martin can manage it properly. You are right with the chances created but as Martin said there was no conviction to convert them. |  |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:57 - Nov 28 with 1360 views | nantywatcher |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:21 - Nov 28 by NotLoyal |
You agree then the exclusion of players who could change the gabecis OK? That's the point I took from it.
Nothing more.
However you then agree with the op on laird, Bennett etc. Did you read it 😂 [Post edited 28 Nov 2021 12:25]
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I'm a big fan of Fulton - he would be in my starting line up every time. Whittaker and Obefemi have nothing about them to inspire me having any faith in them. Two diabolical linesman decisions cost us an attractive win. I'm still not in the Martin fan club, but I can fully understand how he would feel gutted at coming away with nothing yesterday. Sometimes in football you get a good kicking you don't deserve. | | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 13:13 - Nov 28 with 1348 views | nantywatcher |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:39 - Nov 28 by KeithHaynes |
Good assessment, we agree on many things, they are obvious thing though, I hope Martin can manage it properly. You are right with the chances created but as Martin said there was no conviction to convert them. |
December's fixture list is quite brutal - Martin needs to get his positive head on from tomorrow morning first thing if we want to stay in the top half of the table for January 2022. | | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 17:24 - Nov 28 with 1250 views | vetchonian |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 11:40 - Nov 28 by NotLoyal |
That's a lot of words for fear of being branded negative. The continuous mantra of negativity in the past few months against the manager was and is unacceptable. That's the issue, not being able to discuss and debate a point of view without swiping at others. Even I get that. |
what ?
Just because some of us have not like others fawned over the manager but questioned tactics style of play which which were delivering neither entertainment or results thars negative?
My posts are always objective and never have "personal " swipes...many have posted last season and this about our previous manager with name calling....
Maybe there are some fans who look at certain things
differently and are not swayed just by us being seen to be passing the ball.Yes some posters may have a strange style and way of promoting their arguement but why cant some of us criticise when things are wrong ? | |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:32 - Nov 29 with 1020 views | YouBackJastard |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 11:54 - Nov 28 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Seeing us pass and pass and pass around the defence and two defensive midfielders (4th and 5th centre backs) with no purpose, before Ntcham or somebody else finally gets the ball and completely abandons Martinball by trying to take someone on or shooting from 25 yards, continues to make me laugh.
Especially as it appears most of our chances are created when someone finally abandons Martinball and tries something else.
I can't think of many examples where we've dragged players out of position and actually worked our way behind an opponent's defence through a period of possession. The Barnsley goal is a beautiful example of this. 32+ passes before Ntcham has had enough, and Piroe blasts a highly speculative shot from 25 yards. |
When we concede it’s all Martin’s fault and when we score it’s players abandoning Martinball, Jesus Christ | | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:58 - Nov 29 with 1009 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 17:24 - Nov 28 by vetchonian |
what ?
Just because some of us have not like others fawned over the manager but questioned tactics style of play which which were delivering neither entertainment or results thars negative?
My posts are always objective and never have "personal " swipes...many have posted last season and this about our previous manager with name calling....
Maybe there are some fans who look at certain things
differently and are not swayed just by us being seen to be passing the ball.Yes some posters may have a strange style and way of promoting their arguement but why cant some of us criticise when things are wrong ? |
Dear me you've been trying to slag the manager from the start, and it's all about Cooper who you couldn't help bring up in your first post and again in your second.
He's gone, and will never be back. |  | | |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 13:07 - Nov 29 with 990 views | vetchonian |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:58 - Nov 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
Dear me you've been trying to slag the manager from the start, and it's all about Cooper who you couldn't help bring up in your first post and again in your second.
He's gone, and will never be back. |
Well maybe you and the others who are so obseessed by him can get over him.
Ive not tried to diss the manager from the beginning, I have been critical of the obsession with possesion and the way many on here had a rose tinted view of what was happening.
You miss the point ...it seems it was ok to criticise our previous manager but when any critique is offered over MArtin it is all deemed as negative. I get worked up due to the inconsitency not because its about Cooper....
I have praised MArtin when it is due...but for me the jury is still out.... | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 13:07 - Nov 29 with 990 views | vetchonian |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 12:58 - Nov 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
Dear me you've been trying to slag the manager from the start, and it's all about Cooper who you couldn't help bring up in your first post and again in your second.
He's gone, and will never be back. |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 13:45 - Nov 29 with 955 views | KeithHaynes |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 13:07 - Nov 29 by vetchonian |
Well maybe you and the others who are so obseessed by him can get over him.
Ive not tried to diss the manager from the beginning, I have been critical of the obsession with possesion and the way many on here had a rose tinted view of what was happening.
You miss the point ...it seems it was ok to criticise our previous manager but when any critique is offered over MArtin it is all deemed as negative. I get worked up due to the inconsitency not because its about Cooper....
I have praised MArtin when it is due...but for me the jury is still out.... |
My self and David Cornish have criticised him over the past three or four days, haven’t received any issues other than a decent debate around the discussion points. | |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 14:52 - Nov 29 with 928 views | vetchonian |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 13:45 - Nov 29 by KeithHaynes |
My self and David Cornish have criticised him over the past three or four days, haven’t received any issues other than a decent debate around the discussion points. |
And that is what this forum should be about Keith good decent debate ,objective without any personal insults etc
The opinions of football fans will often differ as I have said I have witnessed this as those who sit around me will have a different view of the game players etc....we see that here and it has been seen at other clubs recently ....Morrison at Cardiff having a go back at those who booed the team off v Hull despite him trying to improve thier style of play....the Brighton fans booing on Saturday desoite them playing some good football and being 8th......football fans eh! | |
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| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 17:58 - Nov 29 with 882 views | KeithHaynes |
| It was shockingly awful, and where are the missing players, Fulton included ? on 14:52 - Nov 29 by vetchonian |
And that is what this forum should be about Keith good decent debate ,objective without any personal insults etc
The opinions of football fans will often differ as I have said I have witnessed this as those who sit around me will have a different view of the game players etc....we see that here and it has been seen at other clubs recently ....Morrison at Cardiff having a go back at those who booed the team off v Hull despite him trying to improve thier style of play....the Brighton fans booing on Saturday desoite them playing some good football and being 8th......football fans eh! |
And I think we are getting there, I see loads of healthy chat on here 👠| |
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