| Nottingham NHS on 19:41 - Jun 24 with 2223 views | Dr_Winston |
There are undoubtedly good people in it, there are undoubtedly plenty of lazy, useless drones and incompetent managers. Unfortunately anything Government run in the UK seems to operate at well below the standard tolerated in the private sector, as we're no doubt about to find out with the railways too.
The NHS's biggest problem is that it has been allowed to become a quasi state religion. Any attempt or even the suggestion of radical reform is met with howls of protest and insinuation that it's going to be replaced by a US style system as if that's the other possible other alternative.
Until we as a nation are prepared to have a grownup conversation about a lumbering, inefficient, massively wasteful state run leviathan, things aren't going to improve. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
|  |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:00 - Jun 24 with 2161 views | pencoedjack |
| Nottingham NHS on 19:41 - Jun 24 by Dr_Winston |
There are undoubtedly good people in it, there are undoubtedly plenty of lazy, useless drones and incompetent managers. Unfortunately anything Government run in the UK seems to operate at well below the standard tolerated in the private sector, as we're no doubt about to find out with the railways too.
The NHS's biggest problem is that it has been allowed to become a quasi state religion. Any attempt or even the suggestion of radical reform is met with howls of protest and insinuation that it's going to be replaced by a US style system as if that's the other possible other alternative.
Until we as a nation are prepared to have a grownup conversation about a lumbering, inefficient, massively wasteful state run leviathan, things aren't going to improve. |
Spot on Dr W |  | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:24 - Jun 24 with 2132 views | jack_lord |
| Nottingham NHS on 19:41 - Jun 24 by Dr_Winston |
There are undoubtedly good people in it, there are undoubtedly plenty of lazy, useless drones and incompetent managers. Unfortunately anything Government run in the UK seems to operate at well below the standard tolerated in the private sector, as we're no doubt about to find out with the railways too.
The NHS's biggest problem is that it has been allowed to become a quasi state religion. Any attempt or even the suggestion of radical reform is met with howls of protest and insinuation that it's going to be replaced by a US style system as if that's the other possible other alternative.
Until we as a nation are prepared to have a grownup conversation about a lumbering, inefficient, massively wasteful state run leviathan, things aren't going to improve. |
I'm not sure that the standard tolerated in the private sector is any better than the public sector any more. I have worked in the private sector for over 25 years and before that, the public sector. Manager's have become lazy in the private sector and also the rules have changed so private sector companies have to tread more carefully with staff.
The NHS has become too big and is not what it was set out to be.
I wouldn't say that it is a massively wasteful entity either. There is plenty of evidence that staff are being worked to the bone and there have been recruitment freezes when departments are literally crying for help. |  |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 09:14 - Jun 25 with 2062 views | Dr_Winston |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:24 - Jun 24 by jack_lord |
I'm not sure that the standard tolerated in the private sector is any better than the public sector any more. I have worked in the private sector for over 25 years and before that, the public sector. Manager's have become lazy in the private sector and also the rules have changed so private sector companies have to tread more carefully with staff.
The NHS has become too big and is not what it was set out to be.
I wouldn't say that it is a massively wasteful entity either. There is plenty of evidence that staff are being worked to the bone and there have been recruitment freezes when departments are literally crying for help. |
I would be amazed if some of the stuff that I've seen over my career would be tolerated in the private sector even now.
The biggest problem as I see it from my own workplace and my experiences of the NHS (and talking to staff) is that managers at the sharp end have very little actual power to affect change, or manage processes. They're the ones that see what happens on a daily basis, but the service is driven from above by people far removed from the coal face working with months, even years old data.
The levels of pointless oversight, spending, time wasted etc as a result of that is massive. Bureaucratic inertia. Make hospitals almost independent. Give them a budget appropriate to their size, and give the person in charge actual power to manage it. Power to hire and fire. Power to just get the leaky window fixed instead of having to raise requests that take months to sort and cost five times more than just getting Joe Bloggs Glazing in. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 09:21 - Jun 25 with 2035 views | Whiterockin |
| Nottingham NHS on 09:14 - Jun 25 by Dr_Winston |
I would be amazed if some of the stuff that I've seen over my career would be tolerated in the private sector even now.
The biggest problem as I see it from my own workplace and my experiences of the NHS (and talking to staff) is that managers at the sharp end have very little actual power to affect change, or manage processes. They're the ones that see what happens on a daily basis, but the service is driven from above by people far removed from the coal face working with months, even years old data.
The levels of pointless oversight, spending, time wasted etc as a result of that is massive. Bureaucratic inertia. Make hospitals almost independent. Give them a budget appropriate to their size, and give the person in charge actual power to manage it. Power to hire and fire. Power to just get the leaky window fixed instead of having to raise requests that take months to sort and cost five times more than just getting Joe Bloggs Glazing in. |
From my experience the private sector promote someone to bring value to the company, increase efficiency and profitability. While those in the public sector promote someone they would feel most comfortable working with. |  | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:01 - Jun 25 with 1986 views | jack_lord |
| Nottingham NHS on 09:21 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
From my experience the private sector promote someone to bring value to the company, increase efficiency and profitability. While those in the public sector promote someone they would feel most comfortable working with. |
Personal experience does dictate viewpoints. I am leaving my job mainly because of management failure. We have gone through 3 managers and 2 head of operations in under three years. The latest one is doomed to fail but that choice was a promote through the company because he was more familiar with the processes. His ability shows he is struggling already. The previous manager was useless beyond compare but at least they had a way to remove him. He came in with all the right words and a CV that suggested he could do exactly that. The head of operations basically hid from anything but took credit when anything positive happened.
My previous company, for 15 years saw a lot of what I would expect in the public sector with people getting promoted because they were "in" with the senior staff but, of course, went through 6 managers in the last ten years. Each trying to put their stamp on things but ultimately nothing changed. The biggest difference is that sickness is not tolerated in many private organisations. | |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:02 - Jun 25 with 1985 views | controversial_jack |
| Nottingham NHS on 09:21 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
From my experience the private sector promote someone to bring value to the company, increase efficiency and profitability. While those in the public sector promote someone they would feel most comfortable working with. |
You obviously haven't worked for multi national companies. The waste and inefficiency can be staggering. They pay top whack for every service. Big companies have layers and layers of managers, supervisors too. i'm speaking from 45 years of working for those companies, while Mrs CJ works for the NHS
The NHS , has a much lower ratio of managers to staff than almost any private company.
With respect, your experience is either limited, possibly, you have read it somewhere ,or you are talking nonsense |  | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:13 - Jun 25 with 1975 views | Dr_Winston |
| Nottingham NHS on 09:21 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
From my experience the private sector promote someone to bring value to the company, increase efficiency and profitability. While those in the public sector promote someone they would feel most comfortable working with. |
Public sector promotion and recruitment , other than for specific, mostly technical roles, does not actually require any proof of achievement. As long as you fill the form in correctly, or give the right answers at interview, you're fine. Nobody ever checks whether or not what you claim to have done you actually did.
I know for a fact of several people who got promotions using entirely fictional examples, and one who actually used an example that someone on the interview panel (my old boss) did himself. When he queried this, he was told to just score it as if he hadn't.
It's a game, and one I've never much been interested in playing. I would have gone a lot further career wise if I had. [Post edited 25 Jun 10:14]
| |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Nottingham NHS on 10:28 - Jun 25 with 1946 views | Whiterockin |
I expected to touch a couple of nerves. Denial is also a major trait in the public sector management, it is everyone else's fault but not mine. | | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 11:52 - Jun 25 with 1916 views | Gwyn737 |
I think both things are true.
The NHS is unsustainable and in need massive root and branch reform. I've also no doubt that it has it's fait share of rubbish staff/managers.
It's also true that compared to large private companies ot has far fewer managers. | | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 12:32 - Jun 25 with 1895 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:28 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
I expected to touch a couple of nerves. Denial is also a major trait in the public sector management, it is everyone else's fault but not mine. |
A few years ago, managing a project in a medium sized Local Authority, I remarked to the HR Director on the number if staff who were clearly underperforming. The response was that as a Local Authority there is a responsibility to employ people from across the community. I pushed back once asking about the responsibility to the tax payer but it was obvious that I was pushing a door marked pull.
That same HR Director when pushed on the training and development plan said that she was not going to spend time and energy developing people who will just leave, there was no response when I asked about the impact of running and organisation full of people who were under trained.
Compare that to an insurance company I worked at, where the stated approach was to develop people to meet the requirements of their current and next role. The HR Director there understood the value of getting a reputation for producing capable people regardless of whether people stayed or left. |  |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 12:40 - Jun 25 with 1882 views | Whiterockin |
| Nottingham NHS on 12:32 - Jun 25 by JACKMANANDBOY |
A few years ago, managing a project in a medium sized Local Authority, I remarked to the HR Director on the number if staff who were clearly underperforming. The response was that as a Local Authority there is a responsibility to employ people from across the community. I pushed back once asking about the responsibility to the tax payer but it was obvious that I was pushing a door marked pull.
That same HR Director when pushed on the training and development plan said that she was not going to spend time and energy developing people who will just leave, there was no response when I asked about the impact of running and organisation full of people who were under trained.
Compare that to an insurance company I worked at, where the stated approach was to develop people to meet the requirements of their current and next role. The HR Director there understood the value of getting a reputation for producing capable people regardless of whether people stayed or left. |
Management in the public sector will probably wrongly disagree with you. Nice and easy, comfortable life, no confrontation and collect your guaranteed pay cheque is the mantra. | | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 12:53 - Jun 25 with 1873 views | Dr_Winston |
| Nottingham NHS on 12:40 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
Management in the public sector will probably wrongly disagree with you. Nice and easy, comfortable life, no confrontation and collect your guaranteed pay cheque is the mantra. |
Some do get just as frustrated, but receive little or no support from above in dealing with the worst cases so in the end tend not to bother. It's just not worth the hassle.
So a lot of people get moved sideways. One person I'm aware of has changed jobs at least a dozen times because line managers end up pleading with the dept to move her. She's like a game of pass the parcel that nobody wants to win. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:00 - Jun 25 with 1863 views | Whiterockin |
| Nottingham NHS on 12:53 - Jun 25 by Dr_Winston |
Some do get just as frustrated, but receive little or no support from above in dealing with the worst cases so in the end tend not to bother. It's just not worth the hassle.
So a lot of people get moved sideways. One person I'm aware of has changed jobs at least a dozen times because line managers end up pleading with the dept to move her. She's like a game of pass the parcel that nobody wants to win. |
Public or private sector. | | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:15 - Jun 25 with 1848 views | onehunglow |
| Nottingham NHS on 12:32 - Jun 25 by JACKMANANDBOY |
A few years ago, managing a project in a medium sized Local Authority, I remarked to the HR Director on the number if staff who were clearly underperforming. The response was that as a Local Authority there is a responsibility to employ people from across the community. I pushed back once asking about the responsibility to the tax payer but it was obvious that I was pushing a door marked pull.
That same HR Director when pushed on the training and development plan said that she was not going to spend time and energy developing people who will just leave, there was no response when I asked about the impact of running and organisation full of people who were under trained.
Compare that to an insurance company I worked at, where the stated approach was to develop people to meet the requirements of their current and next role. The HR Director there understood the value of getting a reputation for producing capable people regardless of whether people stayed or left. |
I read community and switch off | |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:31 - Jun 25 with 1838 views | Dr_Winston |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:00 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
Public or private sector. |
Public. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:52 - Jun 25 with 1812 views | Whiterockin |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:31 - Jun 25 by Dr_Winston |
Public. |
Do you agree in the private sector she would probably be gone, after the correct process had been followed. | | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 14:21 - Jun 25 with 1800 views | Dr_Winston |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:52 - Jun 25 by Whiterockin |
Do you agree in the private sector she would probably be gone, after the correct process had been followed. |
I would hope so, but am getting the impression maybe not. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 21:54 - Jun 25 with 1724 views | jack_lord |
| Nottingham NHS on 14:21 - Jun 25 by Dr_Winston |
I would hope so, but am getting the impression maybe not. |
I think it is a bit of both. I know a medical secretary who was actually ok at the job but was never there. Used the sickness triggers to a magical extent. When she was cornered, she went off sick and got a new job in another dept who were oblivious to her sick record. The dept she was working in were delighted but now that employee is doing exactly the same in another NHS dept. They just can't get rid of her because she plays the system perfectly.
I have a colleague who under performs compared to the rest of the team and maximises his sick time. He has been approached but nothing has happened and he has been working with us for over five years.
I think things are changing in the private sector because HR and companies have to tread very carefully with employees and it costs so much to find and train a capable replacement. I had that conversation this week with the top technical guy in my company. I was flattered because he said to me it is going to be hard to replace a good one but I said that even the bad ones are hard to replace. | |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:25 - Jun 26 with 1671 views | union_jack |
| Nottingham NHS on 13:31 - Jun 25 by Dr_Winston |
Public. |
People like that usually get promoted out of the job😡 |  |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:58 - Jun 26 with 1651 views | Gwyn737 |
So let me get this straight. Public servants are rubbish and private companies are amazing, right?
We've got some ways of comparing, haven't we?
I assume the management of water, the railways, BT, the energy companies and British Waterways have done and are doing a wonderful job that we're all satified with. Why else would they get bonus because if they weren't doing a job, they'd be Immediately sacked, wouldn't they? | | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 14:08 - Jun 26 with 1613 views | onehunglow |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:58 - Jun 26 by Gwyn737 |
So let me get this straight. Public servants are rubbish and private companies are amazing, right?
We've got some ways of comparing, haven't we?
I assume the management of water, the railways, BT, the energy companies and British Waterways have done and are doing a wonderful job that we're all satified with. Why else would they get bonus because if they weren't doing a job, they'd be Immediately sacked, wouldn't they? |
Well, many nationalised industries were horrifically managed and no wonder they were privatised
I’d say there’s good and bad in most o dusters and business
When I worked in the retail sector senior management were brutal and bullying
In policing the accelerated promotion degree in drama merchants were beyond description but unless they were caught with fingers on till were promoted to Superintendent within ten years
Absolute madness
I’m so glad to have made enough money to pack in worl relatively early to look after my missus | |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:14 - Jun 26 with 1534 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Nottingham NHS on 10:58 - Jun 26 by Gwyn737 |
So let me get this straight. Public servants are rubbish and private companies are amazing, right?
We've got some ways of comparing, haven't we?
I assume the management of water, the railways, BT, the energy companies and British Waterways have done and are doing a wonderful job that we're all satified with. Why else would they get bonus because if they weren't doing a job, they'd be Immediately sacked, wouldn't they? |
My experience is that the private sector is quick to act sometimes without due diligence but it moves quickly. Too much pressure to deliver on financials distorts companies without good systematic approaches.
Public sector, slow to act all the checks and balances can stifle performance and leads to inertia that becomes an organisational norm.
Strangely the public sector is less keen on learning from others and best practice whereas 'know how' is valued are sought after in the private sector. | |
| |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:17 - Jun 26 with 1533 views | Gwyn737 |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:14 - Jun 26 by JACKMANANDBOY |
My experience is that the private sector is quick to act sometimes without due diligence but it moves quickly. Too much pressure to deliver on financials distorts companies without good systematic approaches.
Public sector, slow to act all the checks and balances can stifle performance and leads to inertia that becomes an organisational norm.
Strangely the public sector is less keen on learning from others and best practice whereas 'know how' is valued are sought after in the private sector. |
I agree with most of that.
I’d add that some of the issues in the public sector are down to hyper accountability which is counter productive. | | | |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:48 - Jun 26 with 1517 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Nottingham NHS on 22:17 - Jun 26 by Gwyn737 |
I agree with most of that.
I’d add that some of the issues in the public sector are down to hyper accountability which is counter productive. |
Yes, managing projects in the public sector sometimes feels like an exercise in identifying every risk at project initiation, in the private sector it feels like you have stand up for having a robust plan rather than just doing stuff.
I'd say I've seen some really skillful front line practitioners in the public sector, duty managers in child protection are the best example. In the private sector some of the people in technical roles are unbelievably good, I met an aerodynamic specialist at BAe on a course, I'd flown in to Glasgow and I said when I think about the weight of as plane it sometimes feels like getting plane in the air is a risk. At lunch he drew me some calculations that indicated that getting a commercial plane n the air does not have much margin | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.