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Their 2nd goal 08:47 - Jul 23 with 2151 viewsMelakaRanger

Our two defenders were totally lightweight at the touchline when the WBA player got the ball and headed goalwards.

Even worse was the reaction of Amos when the player broke away with the ball. He stopped, had a 'I give up moment' and then a few seconds later decided to start playing again. In my mind any player that reacts that way shouldn't be in the team. Loose the ball? Then flipping well try and get it back. Dont stop, have a strop and let the guy get away.

If you watch 'good teams' this just doesn't happen. loose the ball, then they fight immediately to win it back.

Amos isnt the only one guilty of this in our team but it was noticable yesterday.

I know we have a number of lightweights/barely Championship quality players in our team. I get that. I understand our situation but 'giving up' even for a few seconds is not acceptable , whatever your skill level.

Hopefully thats the last we see of him. His heart and fight is not in W12
[Post edited 23 Jul 2020 8:49]
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Their 2nd goal on 08:54 - Jul 23 with 2120 viewstraininvain

Very similar to our first goal last night. Not sure if WBA qualify as a good team but it happened to them too!
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Their 2nd goal on 09:02 - Jul 23 with 2081 viewsenfieldargh

Thought that was pi$$ poor.

Osi Kakay has shown fantastic promise since lock down but he does get caught out.

For their first goal he(well I think it was him) stepped up out of the line leaving 2 on 1.

Think he is a quick learner and will only get better, solves one full back position I hope

Amos and Cameron poor tonight and Ilias seemed to have lost his first touch last night. THink he needs this close season break

captains fantastic
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Their 2nd goal on 09:08 - Jul 23 with 2049 viewsPaddyhoops

My sentiments exactly inregards regards to Amos.
Lazy and unprofessional!!
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Their 2nd goal on 09:17 - Jul 23 with 1988 viewsslmrstid

It was a poor goal to concede, and Lumley went to ground too early on the cross too...

BUT...lets be fair it was also a sublime bit of skill from the WBA player to shuffle the ball round two players and break free. We used to love seeing Adel do that to other players, and when Eze does similar we go wild about what a wonderful skillful player he is (which he is of course!)

So I think in some respects, you just have to give a bit of credit to the West Brom player for wizarding his way through them. Plenty of other Championship players would try that and trip up over themselves.
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Their 2nd goal on 09:18 - Jul 23 with 1983 viewsted_hendrix

There was a spell in the second half when I thought we were gonna get a right old pasting here, we were all over the place.

My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.

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Their 2nd goal on 13:01 - Jul 23 with 1774 viewsNov77

Their 2nd goal on 09:18 - Jul 23 by ted_hendrix

There was a spell in the second half when I thought we were gonna get a right old pasting here, we were all over the place.


I do wish warburton Would take our defensive deficiencies more seriously.

Manning was probably most at fault for the second goal, all the play is in front of him, he’s looking across the line, he sees Masterson get drawn in to mark someone, leaving the man free behind him but makes absolutely no effort to cover, he doesn’t get within five yards of him when he scores.
Lumley’s effort was pretty poor too.

Reluctant to have a go at Kakay as he’s young and making his way, but he stepped out and abandoned his position for the first goal, though Ball let his man run in behind him. Kakay was also the one standing in ‘no mans land’ and playing them onside when their guy went through one on one, even though he missed.

It’s such basic stuff, yet warburton has shown no sign that he’s on top of it as we make the same errors every week.

All he ever talks about is the chances we create and how we have to take them , he always brushes off questions about our defending or makes lame excuses like on Saturday about the opposition being taller than us.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2020 13:02]

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Their 2nd goal on 13:03 - Jul 23 with 1763 viewsNorthernr

Yeh, Kakay and Amos, powderpuff, and usually Kakay smashes people, but just watch fcking Manning on the wide shot. What on earth is he doing?
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Their 2nd goal on 13:17 - Jul 23 with 1718 viewsMick_S

Their 2nd goal on 13:03 - Jul 23 by Northernr

Yeh, Kakay and Amos, powderpuff, and usually Kakay smashes people, but just watch fcking Manning on the wide shot. What on earth is he doing?


Ball watching. The only defence I have for him here is that he surely did not expect our two to lose that challenge.

Did I ever mention that I was in Minder?

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Their 2nd goal on 13:25 - Jul 23 with 1680 viewsBrianMcCarthy

Their 2nd goal on 13:17 - Jul 23 by Mick_S

Ball watching. The only defence I have for him here is that he surely did not expect our two to lose that challenge.


There's no defence for it, Mick. He does it regularly and he's often seen just trotting back. It's just lazy, and unless he sorts that out it will cost him in his career.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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Their 2nd goal on 13:49 - Jul 23 with 1598 viewsMyke

Their 2nd goal on 13:03 - Jul 23 by Northernr

Yeh, Kakay and Amos, powderpuff, and usually Kakay smashes people, but just watch fcking Manning on the wide shot. What on earth is he doing?


It's important to remember that Manning is not a defender. He was signed as a winger, which is where he played all his football for Galway. It is no surprise, therefore, that he is much more effective going forward than defending as he has proven at both ends in the last two games alone. He does not 'think' like a defender, ie positional awareness, spotting potential danger early and reacting to it etc. This is partly his fault, as he should have learned more over the course of the season, but also the blame lies with the coaching staff. If he makes these errors during matches, then you can be sure he is making them in training too, so why haven't they worked on it with him? To me, it is symptomatic of Warburton's overall blase, Kevin Keeganesque attitude to defending, which to be fair, we have heard about going right back to his Brentford days. His attempts to solve our defending from set-pieces has been negligible and had haunted us right up to the Millwall game when, despite the attention of THREE players, Hutchinson headed in effortlessly and they really should have had an equaliser. It's not good enough to say it is hard to defend against players taller than you. it's about determination, awareness and technique. You won't win them all of course, but it is possible to concede a lot less goals than we do, with a bit of coaching.
I'm a big fan of Warburton, I think he has fully fulfilled his remit - and then some - this season. But without a doubt, defending is our achilles heel and it needs to be seriously addressed before we go again. Constantly shuffling around the personnel won't solve the problem, if the players who do take the pitch haven't been told and shown, exactly what is expected of them.
With regard to Manning, if he joins West Ham, or anyone else for that matter, as a left back, then they are going to be in trouble. If they play him as a wing back with a quality left-sided CB to cover in behind him and coach him on the pitch, then he could do very well. If he stays, then we would be wiser to see his long term future as someone competing to replace BOS or Eze on the left. Whether Wallace is the solution to LB is another matter, but we will certainly need some older heads in defence next season, if Kakay and Masterson become regulars.
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Their 2nd goal on 14:22 - Jul 23 with 1485 viewsDavieQPR

The trouble, I believe, with Amos is he thinks that being a Spurs player he is Premiership and this is only the Championship. Needs to change that attitude and put in more effort or he is going to land up none of these.
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Their 2nd goal on 14:25 - Jul 23 with 1471 viewscharmr

Have to agree about the lack of any organization and basic defensive principles for the goals and in general last night.

I’m a fan of Warburtons style. I fear If he doesn’t get some help to fix/coach the defense it might cost him his job.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2020 14:26]
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Their 2nd goal on 14:26 - Jul 23 with 1469 viewsWatford_Ranger

Their 2nd goal on 14:22 - Jul 23 by DavieQPR

The trouble, I believe, with Amos is he thinks that being a Spurs player he is Premiership and this is only the Championship. Needs to change that attitude and put in more effort or he is going to land up none of these.


The marginally wealthier man’s Sean Goss.
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Their 2nd goal on 15:44 - Jul 23 with 1356 viewsgobbles

Amos did a lot of getting close to the player yesterday, but then when the player moved after passing the ball, he didn't bother to track him. Been really disappointed with Amos this season.
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Their 2nd goal on 15:57 - Jul 23 with 1333 viewsfrancisbowles

I like Amos, think he has good ability and has played quite well recently. BUT one thing that he does frequently is pause after a mistake. That look he has, it's like it was going well but another mistake. He needs to get a 'tiger in his tank' and fight back after losing possession.

Manning as well, often seen trotting back when the opposition is in behind him.
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Their 2nd goal on 16:19 - Jul 23 with 1287 viewsgazza1

Amos did ok last night, he is going to make errors that cost goals, etc and that is why he being loaned out from Spurs - nothing wrong with his attitude imho.

I thought Kakay, who has been outstanding the last few games, showed a few weaknesses last night but in his defence he has played a lot of game time in the last few weeks. I got my wish by giving him 1st team games andfrom what I have seen he has every chance of making the right side defender his very own.

There is mention of Manning in this thread too......he has done a lot better recently but he has got a lot of limitations when defending. Great goal last night and Saturday.

Sadly, it has cleared up in my mind that Oteh and Shodipo are not good enough at this level - Conference maybe at best.

I still have my doubts if Samual will make a Premiership winger so I would take the £5 million with add-ons asap.

Lastly Eze, top drawer last night, stunning goal after a great diagonal ball from Barbet who also done well overall since lockdown stopped. (Can you imagine our last years captain pinging a ball like that!!).
[Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:22]
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Their 2nd goal on 16:30 - Jul 23 with 1264 viewskernowhoop

It is not especially perceptive to say that we have a problem with the defence. The 'goals against' figure tells us that. But, solving the problem is another matter. Inexperienced players from the Under-23 squad? No sign that the answer lies there. Recruitment? We have done some of that (Rangell, Wallace), but, with limited success. Someone with the experience and command of e.g. Richard Dunne? Who might that be and how much would we have to pay? Specialist defence coaching? Is there an obvious person who could provide that and would it be successful with the players that we have?

I could envisage an improvement coming from better planning against set-pieces. That probably requires neither big bucks, nor rocket science. But, I have little confidence that we can do much more, unless we get a very big fee for Eze and a central defender - perhaps cast-off from the Premier League - is recruited.

Any thoughts?
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Their 2nd goal on 16:36 - Jul 23 with 1247 viewsfrancisbowles

Their 2nd goal on 16:30 - Jul 23 by kernowhoop

It is not especially perceptive to say that we have a problem with the defence. The 'goals against' figure tells us that. But, solving the problem is another matter. Inexperienced players from the Under-23 squad? No sign that the answer lies there. Recruitment? We have done some of that (Rangell, Wallace), but, with limited success. Someone with the experience and command of e.g. Richard Dunne? Who might that be and how much would we have to pay? Specialist defence coaching? Is there an obvious person who could provide that and would it be successful with the players that we have?

I could envisage an improvement coming from better planning against set-pieces. That probably requires neither big bucks, nor rocket science. But, I have little confidence that we can do much more, unless we get a very big fee for Eze and a central defender - perhaps cast-off from the Premier League - is recruited.

Any thoughts?


Got to stop risky and unnecessary tackles within crossing range of our goal and boot it out for a throw instead of risking a corner.
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Their 2nd goal on 16:44 - Jul 23 with 1220 viewsgobbles

Their 2nd goal on 16:19 - Jul 23 by gazza1

Amos did ok last night, he is going to make errors that cost goals, etc and that is why he being loaned out from Spurs - nothing wrong with his attitude imho.

I thought Kakay, who has been outstanding the last few games, showed a few weaknesses last night but in his defence he has played a lot of game time in the last few weeks. I got my wish by giving him 1st team games andfrom what I have seen he has every chance of making the right side defender his very own.

There is mention of Manning in this thread too......he has done a lot better recently but he has got a lot of limitations when defending. Great goal last night and Saturday.

Sadly, it has cleared up in my mind that Oteh and Shodipo are not good enough at this level - Conference maybe at best.

I still have my doubts if Samual will make a Premiership winger so I would take the £5 million with add-ons asap.

Lastly Eze, top drawer last night, stunning goal after a great diagonal ball from Barbet who also done well overall since lockdown stopped. (Can you imagine our last years captain pinging a ball like that!!).
[Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:22]


Say what you like about year's captain, but he could win a header, especially when defending a corner
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Their 2nd goal on 16:45 - Jul 23 with 1215 viewstimcocking

Was as bad as it gets, the second goal.

Also, don't really want to point it out, but Lumley did quite poorly for the first to be honest, you could have got a widescreen tv through his legs let alone a football. Then of course he spilled one later on, almost went in. Luckily, doesn't matter, but for anybody counting it's a couple more in the dodgy column.

How about Eze's goal, though? Amazing. Brilliant.
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Their 2nd goal on 16:53 - Jul 23 with 1208 viewsBrianMcCarthy

Their 2nd goal on 16:45 - Jul 23 by timcocking

Was as bad as it gets, the second goal.

Also, don't really want to point it out, but Lumley did quite poorly for the first to be honest, you could have got a widescreen tv through his legs let alone a football. Then of course he spilled one later on, almost went in. Luckily, doesn't matter, but for anybody counting it's a couple more in the dodgy column.

How about Eze's goal, though? Amazing. Brilliant.


I thought he was bang on for the first. Feet were shoulder width apart which is correct and the shot was mishit. Bad spill later on alright. Apart from that spill I thought he had another good game.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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Their 2nd goal on 16:54 - Jul 23 with 1206 viewsSouthallRanger

The men getting beaten on the wing is one thing. The man totally unmarked in the box was the poorest thing about that goal
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Their 2nd goal on 17:17 - Jul 23 with 1165 viewsgazza1

Their 2nd goal on 16:44 - Jul 23 by gobbles

Say what you like about year's captain, but he could win a header, especially when defending a corner


I cant tell you about what headers the Captain won....what I can say is that we conceded 71 goals in the league last season which is higher than every team apart from 3!!! Defenders, now, have a lot more to do than just heading from corners, they need to be able to pass the ball.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2020 17:17]
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Their 2nd goal on 17:50 - Jul 23 with 1111 viewsParkRoyalR

Their 2nd goal on 13:25 - Jul 23 by BrianMcCarthy

There's no defence for it, Mick. He does it regularly and he's often seen just trotting back. It's just lazy, and unless he sorts that out it will cost him in his career.


I watched Bidwell do likewise for 3 seasons - at least Manning is creating - don't think it's laziness or playing for himself and not the team as per Bidwell - just think Manning is prone to ball-watching and Barbet seems prone to same and they very easily lose inside runners.
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Their 2nd goal on 18:01 - Jul 23 with 1098 viewsBrianMcCarthy

Their 2nd goal on 17:50 - Jul 23 by ParkRoyalR

I watched Bidwell do likewise for 3 seasons - at least Manning is creating - don't think it's laziness or playing for himself and not the team as per Bidwell - just think Manning is prone to ball-watching and Barbet seems prone to same and they very easily lose inside runners.


I've no problem with most of his game, ParkRoyal, he's a fine player and still learning. What I'm talking about are the instances where they break in behind him and rather than haring back to fight for second ball or rebounds he just trots back. That's just unacceptable and I don't respect it.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
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