| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. 02:46 - Oct 27 with 14999 views | stainrods_elbow |
I would urge all of us not to take this lying down. The following mail has gone in from me tonight to the Club/Lee Hoos, and the EFL. I feel there needs to be an official protest from the top of the Club, and fans like me need to see it.
lee.hoos@qpr.co.uk
enquiries@efl.com
Dear Mr Hoos and the EFL,
As an aggrieved QPR supporter and active contributor to the QPR messageboard Loft for Words, which has been unified in its livid disgust this evening, I am writing to you now in conjunction with the above incident this evening. This is the first time I have felt driven to do so in 45 years of following the club re a footballing matter, but it cannot be allowed to pass.
As the QPR manager Mark Warburton made clear in his post-match interview, the decision not to award a legitimate goal to QPR, scored by Charlie Austin, was scandalously wrong in a scenario that was not even remotely close, contributing directly to the club's exit from the competition this evening and ultimately making a mockery of the spectacle. It is likely this goal would have won the game, as it was scored a few minutes before the end of the 90 minutes. Given the magnitude of the error and attached photographic evidence that clearly shows Austin very comfortably onside when the ball was played, the decision to disallow the goal can therefore only be explained by a conspiracy of craven incompetence or else corruption.
It has also been pointed out that, to add insult to injury, a flagrant handball by a Sunderland defender in the build-up to the goal occurred, which could and should also have led to a penalty and a red card, so the laws of the game were also not applied twice over for reasons best known to the incompetent officials.
Please review the attached evidence carefully. I wish to know (i) what action will be taken against the referee Keith Stroud and his offending linesmen Paul Hodskinson and Mark Dwyer, as well as the 4th official John Busby, who, despite having a monitor, apparently also enforced this miscarriage of justice, for effectively bringing the game into disrepute; (ii) what reparation will be made to QPR FC for the loss of gate receipts, sponsorship and associated benefits attached to their failure to progress, and (iii) where and when an official apology will be issued for this injustice that is visible to fans.
Finally, I think it would be very wise that Mr Stroud and his officials are not allocated any game at QPR FC for the foreseeable future, as I think it would be difficult for the Club to guarantee their safety were this to happen.
I look forward to your replies.
Yours sincerely,
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:03 - Oct 27 with 2391 views | PinnerPaul |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 09:23 - Oct 27 by Stanisgod |
I think to call that a " mistake" is pushing it a bit. |
What is it then?
The 3 penalties were 'mistakes' as well - as MW said the players are only human and oh yes, so are the officials. |  | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:05 - Oct 27 with 2383 views | PinnerPaul |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 09:47 - Oct 27 by QPR_John |
I can accept a mistake but this was more than that. There was no excuse, there was no quick movement that in real time could arguably be missed. The linesman did not see what we all saw and what was clearly shown on the photograph for which there is no excuse. I repeat it was not a mistake but either the linesman failed in his most important function and guessed or maybe worse was unaware of the changes to the offside law. |
In other threads and also what I saw and heard last night it was NOT obvious at the time.
The AR doesn't get to see a still image! | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:09 - Oct 27 with 2360 views | QPR_Jim |
He wasn't awful but that's about all I'll say for the Ref. The foul on Dozzell on the half way line near the end typified his performance. Opponents stop us breaking away, Dozzell stops the ball and takes the free kick quickly to try and limit the effect on our breakaway and maintain momentum, the ref stops us and orders him to take it 2 yards further back. What was the point of that if not to only penalise us further for them fouling us? The guys an idiot, it just so happens he's less of an idiot than the linesman. [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 14:10]
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:50 - Oct 27 with 2243 views | R_from_afar |
I can't see that sending letters or mails of complaint will help but hats off to you for making the effort. I didn't like the threatening final section, though.
Here's a thought: Why don't we try reverse psychology and send letters or e-mails praising Stroud and his merry men? Create the perception that he is biased in our favour. I think that is more likely to get the authorities to keep him away from our games.
Another season and another dream lies bleeding...  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:56 - Oct 27 with 2218 views | gazza1 |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:02 - Oct 27 by PinnerPaul |
Why does he get the blame for the incompetence of his assistant?
Have you EVER seen a referee give or overrule an offside like that at ANT game with qualified assistants?
He's not my favourite but he actually had a decent game.
Handball and red card?????????????? What?????!!!!!
On the original letter the 4th isn't allowed to make decisions or advise based on looking at a monitor - so that's nonsense as well.
As for including the poor bloke (Other AR) on the far side about 80 yards away - well?! |
He was fine last night overall - no worse than most others, I didn't think he was too bad at B'Mouth either.
But hey, we got a lot of 'sheep' posing on this MB. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:59 - Oct 27 with 2209 views | WatfordR |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:05 - Oct 27 by PinnerPaul |
In other threads and also what I saw and heard last night it was NOT obvious at the time.
The AR doesn't get to see a still image! |
I'll be very honest, I almost wish you could come on here and tell us we're all wrong and the lino and ref got it all right, because I don't think I'm going to be able to forget that incident for a long time. Here we are nearly a day later and I've veered between anger and distraught all sodding day.
I take it from your comments that having seen replays you agree the lino is wrong in flagging for offside, but I'm not sure whether you are agreeing on the handball off Albert's shot. It seems clear to me that the defender's arm is away from his side and stops the ball going in, so even in the event that Charlie was offside in scoring, the first infringement is the handball, and a penalty should be given, assuming one of the linesman or the ref has seen it? |  | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:12 - Oct 27 with 2157 views | PinnerPaul |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:59 - Oct 27 by WatfordR |
I'll be very honest, I almost wish you could come on here and tell us we're all wrong and the lino and ref got it all right, because I don't think I'm going to be able to forget that incident for a long time. Here we are nearly a day later and I've veered between anger and distraught all sodding day.
I take it from your comments that having seen replays you agree the lino is wrong in flagging for offside, but I'm not sure whether you are agreeing on the handball off Albert's shot. It seems clear to me that the defender's arm is away from his side and stops the ball going in, so even in the event that Charlie was offside in scoring, the first infringement is the handball, and a penalty should be given, assuming one of the linesman or the ref has seen it? |
Yes I've said about 5 times now it wasn't offside.
Handball - seeing it again, yes it did look like handball, so you're correct if seen, ref would wait, play advantage, award the goal (as he did), then we get the flag, so its offside, no goal, no advantage, penalty and red card.
Both difficult to see in normal time, but both decisions clearly wrong.
This 4th official, corruption, Stroud is useless, threatening repercussions is just silly though. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:19 - Oct 27 with 2134 views | WatfordR |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:12 - Oct 27 by PinnerPaul |
Yes I've said about 5 times now it wasn't offside.
Handball - seeing it again, yes it did look like handball, so you're correct if seen, ref would wait, play advantage, award the goal (as he did), then we get the flag, so its offside, no goal, no advantage, penalty and red card.
Both difficult to see in normal time, but both decisions clearly wrong.
This 4th official, corruption, Stroud is useless, threatening repercussions is just silly though. |
Cheers mate. Sorry, wasn't trying to drag it out of you, but I hadn't seen all your posts on all the threads.
I still find it hard to believe that the lino took all that time to decide all on his own that it was offside. It doesn't seem right, the delay didn't feel right then and doesn't feel right now. I am convinced that a conversation took place first between lino and someone else, and if it wasn't Stroud, it has to be the 4th official. | | | |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:24 - Oct 27 with 2114 views | PinnerPaul |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:19 - Oct 27 by WatfordR |
Cheers mate. Sorry, wasn't trying to drag it out of you, but I hadn't seen all your posts on all the threads.
I still find it hard to believe that the lino took all that time to decide all on his own that it was offside. It doesn't seem right, the delay didn't feel right then and doesn't feel right now. I am convinced that a conversation took place first between lino and someone else, and if it wasn't Stroud, it has to be the 4th official. |
No worries.
Yes I agree, the delay made the decision ever worse.
Albert was much closer to being offside than Charlie - could understand more if he flagged for that.
Signalling the goal just compounded a bad minute for them!
Surprised he did, not many at the top do now - because of VAR I suspect - makes no difference, obviously, ref can change his mind until play is restarted. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:46 - Oct 27 with 2012 views | Stanisgod |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:03 - Oct 27 by PinnerPaul |
What is it then?
The 3 penalties were 'mistakes' as well - as MW said the players are only human and oh yes, so are the officials. |
Incompetance is the same as a mistake then is it? |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:49 - Oct 27 with 1997 views | PinnerPaul |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:46 - Oct 27 by Stanisgod |
Incompetance is the same as a mistake then is it? |
Semantics - does it matter if you call the penalty misses and/or the offside/handball 'misses' incompetence or a mistake - both apply to both I think. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:57 - Oct 27 with 1966 views | WatfordR |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:46 - Oct 27 by Stanisgod |
Incompetance is the same as a mistake then is it? |
I don't have any sympathy with the lino here. It's not like he's even having to move off the spot to view the whole incident. The shot in and saved, Albert's shot, the handball, Charlie's header, all along a fairly narrow line of view which simply has to be observed.
I know he only gets one go at it, but it wasn't really that difficult a decision to observe and get right. And everything that was there to be observed, he got wrong. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 16:05 - Oct 27 with 1930 views | PinnerPaul |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 15:19 - Oct 27 by WatfordR |
Cheers mate. Sorry, wasn't trying to drag it out of you, but I hadn't seen all your posts on all the threads.
I still find it hard to believe that the lino took all that time to decide all on his own that it was offside. It doesn't seem right, the delay didn't feel right then and doesn't feel right now. I am convinced that a conversation took place first between lino and someone else, and if it wasn't Stroud, it has to be the 4th official. |
Totally agree, it doesn't look 'right' but neither does the 4th official making the decision - at least to me - we'll never know will we.
Don't want to appear rude to anyone, but I'm a fan 1st and foremost so like everyone else gutted we lost when we had a perfectly good goal disallowed, so not going to comment anymore, said everything I wanted to say now, on several threads. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 16:11 - Oct 27 with 1912 views | WatfordR |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 16:05 - Oct 27 by PinnerPaul |
Totally agree, it doesn't look 'right' but neither does the 4th official making the decision - at least to me - we'll never know will we.
Don't want to appear rude to anyone, but I'm a fan 1st and foremost so like everyone else gutted we lost when we had a perfectly good goal disallowed, so not going to comment anymore, said everything I wanted to say now, on several threads. |
Appreciate your input Paul, was looking forward to hearing your thoughts all morning. Cheers! | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 16:19 - Oct 27 with 1881 views | Northernr |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 14:03 - Oct 27 by PinnerPaul |
What is it then?
The 3 penalties were 'mistakes' as well - as MW said the players are only human and oh yes, so are the officials. |
If the best explanation we've got for that last night is this tired old refereeing fall back that "players make mistakes as well you know" then let's have the same accountability.
Mark Warburton might have got the team selection wrong last night, he had to give an interview after the match (several interviews) where people could hold him to account for that. Managers get the sack, frequently, often very harshly.
The players that missed the penalties will have to give interviews where people can ask them about it. They get dropped, they get released.
The referee? They make mistakes, nothing happens. We've no idea even what decision they reached last night, how they got to it, why the delay, why no penalty for the handball, and they don't have to tell us. No interview, no post match, nothing from the assessor or the match rep. Referees never get fired, they rarely get demoted, they never speak, they never explain. There is no accountability. Keith Stroud made an absolute complete mess of Swansea v Hull. What happened next? They gave Bournemouth QPR, the biggest game of the midweek list, that Tuesday. Even the catastrophe he oversaw at newcastle the other year, which should have seen him dismissed, only saw him sat out for a couple of weeks. This linesman is back on Saturday and Tuesday - he's got Coventry v Swansea and then Sheff Utd Blackpool. Keith has Peterborough Huddersfield. Nothing ever happens.
You want to play the 'referees make mistakes just like the players and managers' card that's fine. Let's have them held to the same standards in every way. Let's have some demotions and sackings. Let's have them come out afterwards and explain themselves like the managers and players have to.
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 16:27 - Oct 27 with 1855 views | WatfordR |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 16:19 - Oct 27 by Northernr |
If the best explanation we've got for that last night is this tired old refereeing fall back that "players make mistakes as well you know" then let's have the same accountability.
Mark Warburton might have got the team selection wrong last night, he had to give an interview after the match (several interviews) where people could hold him to account for that. Managers get the sack, frequently, often very harshly.
The players that missed the penalties will have to give interviews where people can ask them about it. They get dropped, they get released.
The referee? They make mistakes, nothing happens. We've no idea even what decision they reached last night, how they got to it, why the delay, why no penalty for the handball, and they don't have to tell us. No interview, no post match, nothing from the assessor or the match rep. Referees never get fired, they rarely get demoted, they never speak, they never explain. There is no accountability. Keith Stroud made an absolute complete mess of Swansea v Hull. What happened next? They gave Bournemouth QPR, the biggest game of the midweek list, that Tuesday. Even the catastrophe he oversaw at newcastle the other year, which should have seen him dismissed, only saw him sat out for a couple of weeks. This linesman is back on Saturday and Tuesday - he's got Coventry v Swansea and then Sheff Utd Blackpool. Keith has Peterborough Huddersfield. Nothing ever happens.
You want to play the 'referees make mistakes just like the players and managers' card that's fine. Let's have them held to the same standards in every way. Let's have some demotions and sackings. Let's have them come out afterwards and explain themselves like the managers and players have to.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Made that point last night. The game's a spectacle, it's televised, the officials have made a decision that's now a matter of record, it's plain wrong to me that they should be able to fade off into the night without accounting for that decision.
What is of course, slightly different is managers watching their team get spaffed 5-0 at home, and they'll always have a reason for that and it won't be their fault - we're missing players, we didn't get the breaks, we've had a midweek game where the other lot didn't etc etc.
For refs and linos, that decision last night can't be blamed on anyone or anything else but themselves. But heaven forbid anyone in football might be forced to face TV cameras and take responsibility for anything. That's not what it's all about. Apparently. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 17:06 - Oct 27 with 1730 views | FredManRave |
This is my biggest frustration about it all. The fact that you never get to hear their justifications or version of events for their actions and I genuinely don't understand why.
I realise it wouldn't change anything but it might make them more accountable for their actions?! [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 17:07]
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 18:03 - Oct 27 with 1628 views | VancouverHoop |
The referee? They make mistakes, nothing happens. We've no idea even what decision they reached last night, how they got to it, why the delay, why no penalty for the handball, and they don't have to tell us. No interview, no post match, nothing from the assessor or the match rep. Referees never get fired, they rarely get demoted, they never speak, they never explain.
That's true of every single sport I can think of though. And there's a reason for it. If officials were grilled publicly on a regular basis they'd – consciously or not – start giving the crowd the decisions it wanted. Their impartiality is suspected, by someone, in almost every match they adjudicate. But their in-game authority has to trump everything else, otherwise the sport just wouldn't work. Players try and get inside their head during a match as it is, if the press started doing it as well we may as well turn the whole affair into pro=wrestling. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 18:15 - Oct 27 with 1583 views | TGRRRSSS |
If this was the Sunday tea time Sky game in Premier League, Lino and Stroud (How often is he involved in these debacles) they would be destroygin them, but I guess with VAR they have a safety net, arguably that safety net is a problem when as last might there is none.
Anyone think Lino was asleep and simply guessed in some kind of panic?
Though surely as home team a panic would surely be likely to leave the goal as stood... |  | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 18:52 - Oct 27 with 1534 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 07:46 - Oct 27 by s1cRanger |
Nothing will happen with this especially if you start threatening peoples safety. Let's concentrate on the league and trying to get into the playoffs I say. A few duff results recently but having fewer games to play and a Jan transfer window might strengthen us to push on a little (I hope). |
Just for the record, I wasn't actually threatening anybody's safety, and anyone who wants to argue I'll bum in the gob. (Only joking!) I'd say my letter was/is pretty civilised in the circumstances.
I'd also say the violation that Stroud and his sorry shower dished out to our club and the whole credibility of the game last night rather outdoes any mention I might make of him potentially finding himself in a bit of bother in W12 should he be stupid enough to reappear any time soon. If people have a problem with that, that's fine by me. I'm not a violent person myself, but wouldn't lose too much sleep if he had a mishap after last night's fiasco.
The club should take it up with the EFL in no uncertain terms, and fill us in as fans on the otucome. Going forwards, I won't watch any QPR game that has Stroud or that dipstick linesman anywhere near it, and might just take a break from watching us full stop for a while now - sadly for me. | |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:09 - Oct 27 with 1466 views | Northernr |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 18:03 - Oct 27 by VancouverHoop |
The referee? They make mistakes, nothing happens. We've no idea even what decision they reached last night, how they got to it, why the delay, why no penalty for the handball, and they don't have to tell us. No interview, no post match, nothing from the assessor or the match rep. Referees never get fired, they rarely get demoted, they never speak, they never explain.
That's true of every single sport I can think of though. And there's a reason for it. If officials were grilled publicly on a regular basis they'd – consciously or not – start giving the crowd the decisions it wanted. Their impartiality is suspected, by someone, in almost every match they adjudicate. But their in-game authority has to trump everything else, otherwise the sport just wouldn't work. Players try and get inside their head during a match as it is, if the press started doing it as well we may as well turn the whole affair into pro=wrestling. |
It's a good point, and I think you're probably right, and I'm just still bloody raging.
I'd refer back to Mark Halsey's podcast with Nedum though as a final point. He said he felt it would be helpful if somebody - the assessor, or a representative - was put up afterwards to speak to the media and explain the thinking behind controversial incidents. Tp have something like that last night, and nobody still has the fogiest idea who gave what and why, seems weird and wrong. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:32 - Oct 27 with 1375 views | PlanetHonneywood |
UN
New York
Dear Secretary General,
I take this opportunity to extend the best wishes of Queens Park Rangers fans around the world.
No doubt you have seen Charlie’s goal - and it was a f.....g goal - that was disallowed by that c..t Keith Stroud and the blind w....r that was running the line in the match against Sunderland.
What a f.....g joke and I have no doubt you and your colleagues must have been well p1ssed off.
Therefore, just as the UN was mobilised twice to rout the Iraqis in 1991 and eventually, in 2006, we must ask the UN to take similar action to rectify this heinous injustice, and it be done expeditiously before the quarter final draw.
I propose the EFL be blacklisted as a terrorist organisation; that the assets of that c..t Stroud and his w....r lino be seized, and Sunderland be subject to air strikes; until the Rangers are reinstated into the League Cup.
When you stood for the role of UN Secretary General, you did so on a simple platform: no more injustice! Now is the time to man-up and bring the light of justice to this effing travesty.
Yours sincerely
Planethonneywood
cc Presidents Joe Biden, Vladimir Putin, Emmanuel Macron; General Secretary Xi; HM Queen Elizabeth II; Chancellor Merkel; MBS; and Marcus Rashford M.B.E. |  |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:36 - Oct 27 with 1357 views | Stanisgod |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 16:19 - Oct 27 by Northernr |
If the best explanation we've got for that last night is this tired old refereeing fall back that "players make mistakes as well you know" then let's have the same accountability.
Mark Warburton might have got the team selection wrong last night, he had to give an interview after the match (several interviews) where people could hold him to account for that. Managers get the sack, frequently, often very harshly.
The players that missed the penalties will have to give interviews where people can ask them about it. They get dropped, they get released.
The referee? They make mistakes, nothing happens. We've no idea even what decision they reached last night, how they got to it, why the delay, why no penalty for the handball, and they don't have to tell us. No interview, no post match, nothing from the assessor or the match rep. Referees never get fired, they rarely get demoted, they never speak, they never explain. There is no accountability. Keith Stroud made an absolute complete mess of Swansea v Hull. What happened next? They gave Bournemouth QPR, the biggest game of the midweek list, that Tuesday. Even the catastrophe he oversaw at newcastle the other year, which should have seen him dismissed, only saw him sat out for a couple of weeks. This linesman is back on Saturday and Tuesday - he's got Coventry v Swansea and then Sheff Utd Blackpool. Keith has Peterborough Huddersfield. Nothing ever happens.
You want to play the 'referees make mistakes just like the players and managers' card that's fine. Let's have them held to the same standards in every way. Let's have some demotions and sackings. Let's have them come out afterwards and explain themselves like the managers and players have to.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
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| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 20:36 - Oct 27 with 1209 views | themodfather |
1999 arsenal v sheff urd, 1-1 and with a blades player dowm injured, arsenal player kanu took a quick throw to overmars, many blades players were distracted as their man down etc, overmars scores and celebrates, the goal was given and stood as no rule broken, steve bruce and co argued for 8 mins but goal stood and arseanl won. however with the "contraversy" arsenal manager Wenger decided it was not in the spirit of the game and he offered a replay. top bloke. even with his bad eyes he saw something wrong and acted on it.
now our "GOAL" was ONSIDE, their player even HANDLED it so even if ruled off, it was, there is the penalty and red card to be considered . "sportsmanship" and "spirit of the game" the game in "disrepute" over poor officiating and there is my case, m'lud. so we get a points deduction, heavy fine and are banned from all cups. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 20:47 - Oct 27 with 1183 views | VancouverHoop |
Burnley v Spurs last night. Also not a penalty...
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