| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:11 - Jan 8 with 3065 views | Neil_SI |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:01 - Jan 8 by JonDoeman |
Proof is in the pudding , if he'd been solid & assured in his time on the pitch he'd have kept the spot. That is my fear, we're replacing one dodgepot with another . We'll soon see . |
Smithies is a solid and experienced keeper. I've no concerns about him at this level.
He's 25 years old, so a great age, and already has amassed almost 250 appearances and over half of those have been in the Championship. That's around 100 more appearance than Alex McCarthy has made, who is slightly older at 26 years.
To me, it's ridiculous that he's sitting on the bench and that's from all points of view. The club shouldn't be signing players like these at this stage and benching them, and neither should players like these be coming to the club to sit on the bench.
Despite Green's flaws, he is very experienced, having played nearly 550 times and in the Premier League and for England, so maybe they felt it was worth spending time with someone who's been at a level they haven't to learn from them a bit. I still think it's a risk however, as sitting out of action for a season tends to regress goalkeepers quickly. They can't do it for any more than that. |  | |  |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:18 - Jan 8 with 3040 views | Neil_SI |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:03 - Jan 8 by PunteR |
They must think you cant have a £50,000 a week keeper sitting on the bench at QPR.
Agree with you though,Green is arguably the best keeper we've got and i'm not sure Smithies can have too much to complain about as he knew Green still had a contract here,plus he's on better money than he was at Huddersfield..He'll get his chance.
We can't afford Green so i hope this gets sorted. [Post edited 8 Jan 2016 11:11]
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It was actually a big move for Smithies. He's moved away from his hometown club and area for the first time with his family, so maybe they also felt he needed some time to settle in.
A lot of people under-estimate the importance of this, as some people react well and some don't to moving home or area. More often than not, people think this applies to just foreign players, but it doesn't. It's the same for all.
The same could be said of simply travelling to away matches. Some travel better than others, some get far more homesick and miss their family more than others. These things affect performances and the able to maintain focus. Sometimes playing regularly helps with this, sometimes it doesn't. | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:29 - Jan 8 with 3014 views | EastR |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:18 - Jan 8 by Neil_SI |
It was actually a big move for Smithies. He's moved away from his hometown club and area for the first time with his family, so maybe they also felt he needed some time to settle in.
A lot of people under-estimate the importance of this, as some people react well and some don't to moving home or area. More often than not, people think this applies to just foreign players, but it doesn't. It's the same for all.
The same could be said of simply travelling to away matches. Some travel better than others, some get far more homesick and miss their family more than others. These things affect performances and the able to maintain focus. Sometimes playing regularly helps with this, sometimes it doesn't. |
So now we have to add to the excuses that well paid, professional athletes underperform due to lack of fitness, that a night away from home (in a job where 50% of you’re the time executing your job is away) can be the cause of them not giving 100%?
Ah bless them, they need some contract clauses to ensure they tucked in at night too. |  |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:32 - Jan 8 with 3002 views | themodfather |
is this a 30 game execution contract, then im in | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:35 - Jan 8 with 2999 views | Neil_SI |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:29 - Jan 8 by EastR |
So now we have to add to the excuses that well paid, professional athletes underperform due to lack of fitness, that a night away from home (in a job where 50% of you’re the time executing your job is away) can be the cause of them not giving 100%?
Ah bless them, they need some contract clauses to ensure they tucked in at night too. |
The common mistake is to link it to "well paid", it doesn't matter how much or how little you're paid, this affects people regardless of that, in any sport or industry where there is relocation or travel and you spend large amounts of time away from home.
That's why doing due diligence on players before you buy them is important, that you find out about their character, personality and personal circumstances that also extend beyond the player. Perhaps the player's partner might become unsettled that causes external pressure. There are so many basics like this and each company or management team handles them in their own way.
It's always about understanding and reducing risk. These things may well have been an accepted risk and under consideration for someone like Smithies, so a slow introduction may well be fine. But professional players are only human in the end. [Post edited 8 Jan 2016 11:35]
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:37 - Jan 8 with 2994 views | Jamie |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:01 - Jan 8 by JonDoeman |
Proof is in the pudding , if he'd been solid & assured in his time on the pitch he'd have kept the spot. That is my fear, we're replacing one dodgepot with another . We'll soon see . |
Kidding yourself there Jonny. Green has the name, and would've been back in regardless. | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:45 - Jan 8 with 2975 views | Neil_SI |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:35 - Jan 8 by Neil_SI |
The common mistake is to link it to "well paid", it doesn't matter how much or how little you're paid, this affects people regardless of that, in any sport or industry where there is relocation or travel and you spend large amounts of time away from home.
That's why doing due diligence on players before you buy them is important, that you find out about their character, personality and personal circumstances that also extend beyond the player. Perhaps the player's partner might become unsettled that causes external pressure. There are so many basics like this and each company or management team handles them in their own way.
It's always about understanding and reducing risk. These things may well have been an accepted risk and under consideration for someone like Smithies, so a slow introduction may well be fine. But professional players are only human in the end. [Post edited 8 Jan 2016 11:35]
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Here's a good example.
A wonderfully talented player; Dennis Bergkamp.
He developed a fear of flying after some of his friends died in a plane crash. That led to him never getting on a plane again and made him unavailable for a lot of European away matches, or caused him to travel for hours and days on end by land and sea to reach locations.
What did Arsenal do about this?
Some clubs would have bowed over and accepted it as is. It's Dennis Bergkamp after all, one of the World's best players. Arsenal did accept and understand the players problems, and because there was no resolution, they negotiated a reduction in his salary in his contract because he would miss those matches.
My impression from Bergkamp was that this irritated him, especially after the number of years of service he gave the club. But they were a strong board and had a clear platform for what is and isn't acceptable to them. And either he bought into that, or he would be not be there.
For another player, he might have left and chased more money and gone to a place where they'd have let that pass. But some players also care about their careers before money and Arsenal was the best platform and environment for Bergkamp - so he signed and stayed.
That's what you want QPR to be. A club where people come to and see a structure and think to themselves... "well it's not quite what I want, or this other club pays more, but I really want to play here because it's better for my career." | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:47 - Jan 8 with 2968 views | PinnerPaul |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 10:02 - Jan 8 by daveB |
If Green was playing well people would be going mad that we are letting his contract run down. Everyone has the hump about QPR at the moment so every slightly negative thing is going to be exaggerated. |
Exactly, even those that want Smihies to play are now fretting "What happens if he gets injured"
Its getting a bit silly now | | | |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:56 - Jan 8 with 2952 views | SuffolkHoop |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:47 - Jan 8 by PinnerPaul |
Exactly, even those that want Smihies to play are now fretting "What happens if he gets injured"
Its getting a bit silly now |
I'm not fretting at all. If Smithies gets injured we can either loan someone short term or play one of the kids in goal. We don't need Green. |  | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 12:01 - Jan 8 with 2940 views | EastR |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:45 - Jan 8 by Neil_SI |
Here's a good example.
A wonderfully talented player; Dennis Bergkamp.
He developed a fear of flying after some of his friends died in a plane crash. That led to him never getting on a plane again and made him unavailable for a lot of European away matches, or caused him to travel for hours and days on end by land and sea to reach locations.
What did Arsenal do about this?
Some clubs would have bowed over and accepted it as is. It's Dennis Bergkamp after all, one of the World's best players. Arsenal did accept and understand the players problems, and because there was no resolution, they negotiated a reduction in his salary in his contract because he would miss those matches.
My impression from Bergkamp was that this irritated him, especially after the number of years of service he gave the club. But they were a strong board and had a clear platform for what is and isn't acceptable to them. And either he bought into that, or he would be not be there.
For another player, he might have left and chased more money and gone to a place where they'd have let that pass. But some players also care about their careers before money and Arsenal was the best platform and environment for Bergkamp - so he signed and stayed.
That's what you want QPR to be. A club where people come to and see a structure and think to themselves... "well it's not quite what I want, or this other club pays more, but I really want to play here because it's better for my career." |
Bergkamp’s fear of flying existed before he signed for Arsenal, and it wasn’t as a consequence of the death of any friend, it was from an experience at the World Cup with Holland.
A possible solution to this ‘awayphobia’ could be that, as part of the pre contract process, prospective signings could be accommodated in the local Travelodge for a night. If they don’t emerge quivering wrecks for breakfast, sign them up. | |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 12:06 - Jan 8 with 2924 views | SuffolkHoop |
We live in the UK not Australia. Even if/when QPR are playing in Middlesborough or Plymouth or Carlisle they still aren't exactly far away from home! | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 12:16 - Jan 8 with 2906 views | Neil_SI |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 12:01 - Jan 8 by EastR |
Bergkamp’s fear of flying existed before he signed for Arsenal, and it wasn’t as a consequence of the death of any friend, it was from an experience at the World Cup with Holland.
A possible solution to this ‘awayphobia’ could be that, as part of the pre contract process, prospective signings could be accommodated in the local Travelodge for a night. If they don’t emerge quivering wrecks for breakfast, sign them up. |
Oops yeah. That's right regarding his decision not to fly. I was thinking about someone else regarding the reason, sorry. But that wasn't really the point, the point was he didn't want to fly and he accepted the consequences and Arsenal made sure they put a reduction in somewhere because of it.
I've just seen this in all walks of life, from "normal" jobs to football. When I coached the QPR Ladies, there was a player in the first-team, one of the best players, who could not travel to away matches because of how homesick it made her and that she didn't travel well.
And that was generally just 'day' travel. The resources were not there to really do any overnight stays for away matches. So as a consequence she missed many away games and was often left behind and being used in home games.
So it happens. The players and staff were all incredibly supportive and understanding and did a lot to try and help her progress on a personal level to try and overcome the problem. In the end she fell out of the game, which is a shame as she had the ability to have a long career at the highest level and in my opinion had the potential to play for England.
It's just more of a problem than people realise. [Post edited 8 Jan 2016 12:17]
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 12:38 - Jan 8 with 2862 views | simmo |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:01 - Jan 8 by JonDoeman |
Proof is in the pudding , if he'd been solid & assured in his time on the pitch he'd have kept the spot. That is my fear, we're replacing one dodgepot with another . We'll soon see . |
That's not true. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 13:22 - Jan 8 with 2804 views | A40Bosh |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:29 - Jan 8 by EastR |
So now we have to add to the excuses that well paid, professional athletes underperform due to lack of fitness, that a night away from home (in a job where 50% of you’re the time executing your job is away) can be the cause of them not giving 100%?
Ah bless them, they need some contract clauses to ensure they tucked in at night too. |
"can be the cause of them not giving 100%? "
This is the flaw in your counter argument to Neil. There is a difference in "not giving" and "not being effective". Some of these players ARE "giving 100%" in terms of the "effort" they are at least trying to put in, but the outside factors mean that the quality of their game is affected and having bad games is seen as a lack of effort rather than things just not coming off. |  |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 13:27 - Jan 8 with 2796 views | Jamie |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:47 - Jan 8 by PinnerPaul |
Exactly, even those that want Smihies to play are now fretting "What happens if he gets injured"
Its getting a bit silly now |
Whilst acknowledging your personal desire to portray QPR as a shining bastion of intelligent and profitable corporate administration, do you not see even the most minute issue in the club apparently having decided that this would be Green's last contract, and signing his younger replacement, letting him play right up to the clause kicks in and thus meaning that anything other than Smithies being available to play every game from now on, means throwing a kid in, or chucking even more money away on a short term replacement. | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 14:02 - Jan 8 with 2386 views | Hunterhoop |
Ultimately, Green is barely fulfilling the very basics of a professional goalkeeper at present, the idea that we should even consider extending his contract, whatever the reason/cause for it, is laughable.
He has made few, if any, notable saves all season, been responsible for a handful of disastrous clangers, can barely reach the half way line with his kicks, is clearly instilling little confidence in his back 4 (look at reactions of teammates at recent goals) and is 35 with a body gradually breaking down (on good authority from within the club). From what I've heard he also knows full well he is making lots of mistakes and his body is knackered.
On the bench, we have a 25yr old keeper, with over 250 professional games under his belt (100 at this level), who should, if he follows the same career trajectory as most keepers, be entering his peak playing period in the next 5 years. The bloke has moved from his boyhood club to be here and he's moved his family down. He's also on a significantly lower salary.
It is an absolute no brainer. Unless injured, Smithies should be started every game between now and the end of the season.
If we decide then that we "want" to offer Green an extension (god knows why), we still can. If we think Smithies is a bust, we will have given him a fair go and can try to sign someone else. If we're happy with him, we'll have got his confidence up, filled a key position in the spine of the team for next year an reduced our salary bill for the season after.
Why even risk being contractually obligated to extend Green's contract? It is utterly stupid to consider it.
At present, on current form, I think there are very likely to be only a handful of worse keepers in the Champ or League 1 than Green. Smithies cannot be much worse, if worse at all than Green, so there is materially no risk.
It is a no brainer. |  | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 15:18 - Jan 8 with 2319 views | FredManRave |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 12:01 - Jan 8 by EastR |
Bergkamp’s fear of flying existed before he signed for Arsenal, and it wasn’t as a consequence of the death of any friend, it was from an experience at the World Cup with Holland.
A possible solution to this ‘awayphobia’ could be that, as part of the pre contract process, prospective signings could be accommodated in the local Travelodge for a night. If they don’t emerge quivering wrecks for breakfast, sign them up. |
I'm surprised that Usain Bolt can even complete 100 metres outside of Jamaica. |  |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 16:28 - Jan 8 with 2244 views | PinnerPaul |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 13:27 - Jan 8 by Jamie |
Whilst acknowledging your personal desire to portray QPR as a shining bastion of intelligent and profitable corporate administration, do you not see even the most minute issue in the club apparently having decided that this would be Green's last contract, and signing his younger replacement, letting him play right up to the clause kicks in and thus meaning that anything other than Smithies being available to play every game from now on, means throwing a kid in, or chucking even more money away on a short term replacement. |
If we had played Smithies from the 1st game, Green would have left anyway! | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 16:29 - Jan 8 with 2239 views | Harbour |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 14:02 - Jan 8 by Hunterhoop |
Ultimately, Green is barely fulfilling the very basics of a professional goalkeeper at present, the idea that we should even consider extending his contract, whatever the reason/cause for it, is laughable.
He has made few, if any, notable saves all season, been responsible for a handful of disastrous clangers, can barely reach the half way line with his kicks, is clearly instilling little confidence in his back 4 (look at reactions of teammates at recent goals) and is 35 with a body gradually breaking down (on good authority from within the club). From what I've heard he also knows full well he is making lots of mistakes and his body is knackered.
On the bench, we have a 25yr old keeper, with over 250 professional games under his belt (100 at this level), who should, if he follows the same career trajectory as most keepers, be entering his peak playing period in the next 5 years. The bloke has moved from his boyhood club to be here and he's moved his family down. He's also on a significantly lower salary.
It is an absolute no brainer. Unless injured, Smithies should be started every game between now and the end of the season.
If we decide then that we "want" to offer Green an extension (god knows why), we still can. If we think Smithies is a bust, we will have given him a fair go and can try to sign someone else. If we're happy with him, we'll have got his confidence up, filled a key position in the spine of the team for next year an reduced our salary bill for the season after.
Why even risk being contractually obligated to extend Green's contract? It is utterly stupid to consider it.
At present, on current form, I think there are very likely to be only a handful of worse keepers in the Champ or League 1 than Green. Smithies cannot be much worse, if worse at all than Green, so there is materially no risk.
It is a no brainer. |
Agree with this...overall Green has been good for us ...however the last 2 seasons he has regressed two many mistakes, does not deal with crosses, awful kicking...the idea we extend his contract is laughable....we are going to be in the championship for a few years...lets get smithies playing and line up a back for him and let green go,,, | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 16:59 - Jan 8 with 2199 views | terryb |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 11:35 - Jan 8 by Neil_SI |
The common mistake is to link it to "well paid", it doesn't matter how much or how little you're paid, this affects people regardless of that, in any sport or industry where there is relocation or travel and you spend large amounts of time away from home.
That's why doing due diligence on players before you buy them is important, that you find out about their character, personality and personal circumstances that also extend beyond the player. Perhaps the player's partner might become unsettled that causes external pressure. There are so many basics like this and each company or management team handles them in their own way.
It's always about understanding and reducing risk. These things may well have been an accepted risk and under consideration for someone like Smithies, so a slow introduction may well be fine. But professional players are only human in the end. [Post edited 8 Jan 2016 11:35]
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Now come on Neil!
Queens Park Rangers carrying out due diligence before signing players? The theory is excellent but in practice...? | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 17:12 - Jan 8 with 2186 views | Jamie |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 16:28 - Jan 8 by PinnerPaul |
If we had played Smithies from the 1st game, Green would have left anyway! |
Eh? We tried to give him away again this summer to keep McCarthy. No biters. | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 17:13 - Jan 8 with 2182 views | FredManRave |
The latest according to The Standard;
QPR have told Rob Green he will be dropped to the bench if he does not secure a transfer away from Loftus Road this month.
The goalkeeper will automatically earn an extension on his deal, which expires at the end of the season, should he play just five more times.
The 35-year-old has a clause written into his contract, which is worth around £40,000 a week, that he is guaranteed to get another one on the same terms when he reaches 30 games this campaign.
Green has already made 25 appearances and while Rangers have huge respect for the role he has played since joining from West Ham on a free transfer in 2012, they do not want to continue to pay his large wages, especially as they are unlikely to win promotion from the Championship this season.
He has been encouraged to find another club before the window closes on February 1 or face the prospect of spending the rest of the season watching from the sidelines.
Alex Smithies, who has made only four appearances after joining from Huddersfield for £1.5million last summer on a far smaller salary, will become the club’s new first-choice keeper. QPR are determined to lower expenditure and have been gradually selling all their highest earners since being relegated from the Premier League last May.
Green did try to secure a move last summer and held talks with West Ham, only for talks to collapse.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/qpr-transfer-news-rob-green-told-he-ll- | |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 17:47 - Jan 8 with 2161 views | SuffolkHoop |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 17:13 - Jan 8 by FredManRave |
The latest according to The Standard;
QPR have told Rob Green he will be dropped to the bench if he does not secure a transfer away from Loftus Road this month.
The goalkeeper will automatically earn an extension on his deal, which expires at the end of the season, should he play just five more times.
The 35-year-old has a clause written into his contract, which is worth around £40,000 a week, that he is guaranteed to get another one on the same terms when he reaches 30 games this campaign.
Green has already made 25 appearances and while Rangers have huge respect for the role he has played since joining from West Ham on a free transfer in 2012, they do not want to continue to pay his large wages, especially as they are unlikely to win promotion from the Championship this season.
He has been encouraged to find another club before the window closes on February 1 or face the prospect of spending the rest of the season watching from the sidelines.
Alex Smithies, who has made only four appearances after joining from Huddersfield for £1.5million last summer on a far smaller salary, will become the club’s new first-choice keeper. QPR are determined to lower expenditure and have been gradually selling all their highest earners since being relegated from the Premier League last May.
Green did try to secure a move last summer and held talks with West Ham, only for talks to collapse.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/qpr-transfer-news-rob-green-told-he-ll- |
"Green did try to secure a move last summer and held talks with West Ham, only for talks to collapse."
How hard was he trying? Did he lower his wage demands? | | | |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 18:06 - Jan 8 with 2132 views | TheBlob |
Maybe we can finally go and sign Bentley. |  |
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| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 19:08 - Jan 8 with 2038 views | EastR |
| Green Contract extension if he plays 30 Games on 13:22 - Jan 8 by A40Bosh |
"can be the cause of them not giving 100%? "
This is the flaw in your counter argument to Neil. There is a difference in "not giving" and "not being effective". Some of these players ARE "giving 100%" in terms of the "effort" they are at least trying to put in, but the outside factors mean that the quality of their game is affected and having bad games is seen as a lack of effort rather than things just not coming off. |
No, its definitely because they've not got their soothers | |
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