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Labour have just announced free broadband for all implemented by nationalising part of BT. Just to be fair I do have an interest as I have BT shares bought through a sharesave scheme when I worked for them and also a pension from BT. Am I one of the rich Corbyn is after?
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 23:30]
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:29 - Nov 15 with 1835 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:10 - Nov 15 by stevec
That's interesting Baz, so you have an insight into both the public and private side of work.
Can I ask you, considering public sector basically relies on the taxes of the private sector to pay it's salaries, is it fair that public sector employees can be earning 25% more than their private sector counterparts who's employment depends entirely on themselves and their companies making a profit to cover not only the tax take of the public sector but their very own wages?
You mention you were bored. I heard a story recently from a friend, concerning the civil service possibly from something a year or so ago. Apparently, Michael Gove criticised the civil service for having too many employees with nothing to do and too many holidays. A friend of this friend, more centre than left, expected uproar when someone mentioned this in their open plan office, then someone piped up and said 'actually, he's got a point' to which practically everyone nodded in agreement and laughed.
52 days holiday would be something no one in the private sector could ever dream of. I know many in the Civil Service get an extra hours holiday added for every hour of overtime they work. Be fair, this is insane. It's not wonder the public sector is constantly straining under whichever government are in power, Tory or Labour.
My son told me recently that many of his age group coming out of University with good degrees, initially go into the private sector, realise that the work and effort required only produces a modest salary and are now jumping into the civil service where, as you say, the salaries and holidays outweigh anything the private sector equivalent can offer. Somebody, somewhere still has to pay for this ever mounting crippling public sector bill.
It is also crazy, and quite sad actually, constantly painting the private sector as the villains, an area where 'staying until you retire' isn't even an option of choice.
Not a criticism of you mate, admire the fact you were willing to move out of it for a lesser salary, but surely you must see the potential dangers of Corbyn policy.
While my organisation was publically owned, 90% of its income was from private users. The other 10% came from government subsidies, which ended this year under the Tories resulting in 900 job losses.
When I say I was bored, it wasn’t through lack of workload, it was through doing the same job for six years out of the 12 I was there.
It’s no good attacking others great terms and conditions. Why not change things for yourself? I thought the politics of envy was a left wing trait? Join a Union a change things for yourself, like me and my predecessors did.
I don’t think the Private sector are villains, but I do think charging a profit for thing like Water is a horrendous abuse of something that we literally will die of should it be taken away. You will still have Sainsbury’s, and Netflix, and Amazon, and Sky Sports, and Apple products. I use all of these but just wish they would pay a tax rate that is fair and is higher than the tax rate the cleaner who cleans the office.
The misconception of Corbyn and Labour is that he and it are radical. They really arn’t in comparisons to the majority of western first world economies. Even the tax rises we are proposing will be below Germany’s and other major powers and the nationalisation of Rail is so mainstream in almost every other country.
Think on, read the policy rather than the headline.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:30 - Nov 15 with 1831 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 08:52 - Nov 15 by CiderwithRsie
Some odd stuff on here.
1. A state-owned body installing broadband doesn't control the internet. My internet isn't controlled by QPR_John and his other shareholders just because BT Openreach put in the cables (though it's their fault when the bastard thing goes down or runs at the speed of the BFG)
2. How does nationalising BT Openreach give the NHS any money? (Let alone actual staff)?
I should have said State run "access to" the Internet with a Communist Government .
Punishment slowdown or turnoff for saying the wrong thing ..........
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:38 - Nov 15 with 1810 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:29 - Nov 15 by BazzaInTheLoft
While my organisation was publically owned, 90% of its income was from private users. The other 10% came from government subsidies, which ended this year under the Tories resulting in 900 job losses.
When I say I was bored, it wasn’t through lack of workload, it was through doing the same job for six years out of the 12 I was there.
It’s no good attacking others great terms and conditions. Why not change things for yourself? I thought the politics of envy was a left wing trait? Join a Union a change things for yourself, like me and my predecessors did.
I don’t think the Private sector are villains, but I do think charging a profit for thing like Water is a horrendous abuse of something that we literally will die of should it be taken away. You will still have Sainsbury’s, and Netflix, and Amazon, and Sky Sports, and Apple products. I use all of these but just wish they would pay a tax rate that is fair and is higher than the tax rate the cleaner who cleans the office.
The misconception of Corbyn and Labour is that he and it are radical. They really arn’t in comparisons to the majority of western first world economies. Even the tax rises we are proposing will be below Germany’s and other major powers and the nationalisation of Rail is so mainstream in almost every other country.
Think on, read the policy rather than the headline.
"charging a profit for thing like Water is a horrendous abuse of something that we literally will die of should it be taken away."
Should we nationalise all the supermarkets as well then? We'd die without food, after all.
I'd argue that not having any clothes would be pretty impractical (to say the least), so on the same lines that Corbyn has used regarding the necessity of the internet, I would say it is rather a necessity that we all have clothes we can wear... nationalise all clothing shops/brands I say.
And spending billions re-nationalising Royal Mail.. why? have you not been getting your post since it was privatised? I certainly have. In fact I haven't noticed a blind bit of difference. It is textbook ideology I'm afraid.
Where does this end?
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:42 - Nov 15 with 1804 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:28 - Nov 15 by ridethewave
Well on point 1, you're entirely missing the point. That parliament arbitrarily decide what price to pay for a publicly listed share, is not legal. It will be caught up in years worth of legal challenges, rendering the entire policy pointless anyway. There's actually no point in debating any of this, as such.
I suggest you read about the crowding out effect. It has never created jobs, quite the opposite. Trust me, I studied this stuff for years, which I can confidentially say Jeremy Corbny and Jon Mcdonnell haven't done.
Their cost estimates are being debunked from every commentator going, as they are not accounting for the decrease in profits resulting from giving away the very service they make a profit on for free. They are not accounting for the underfunded pension that will suddenly become the state's liability.
I won't get into a debate about Portugal, other than to say that most economists would not consider it a particular success story on a number of very key issues, and that, most importantly, our two countries are totally incomparable. We could copy and paste news articles all day long, there are plenty arguing the opposite of the one you've posted, but I'll let you read them.
The things you have said just arn’t true.
The process of nationalisation and compensation has happened numerous times even in the last nine years by Parliament and wasn’t challenged successfully a single time in any court or held up by legal bureaucracy.
There maybe other articles arguing that Portugal is a disaster, but none of them backed up by the UN or World Bank.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:47 - Nov 15 with 1795 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:38 - Nov 15 by ridethewave
"charging a profit for thing like Water is a horrendous abuse of something that we literally will die of should it be taken away."
Should we nationalise all the supermarkets as well then? We'd die without food, after all.
I'd argue that not having any clothes would be pretty impractical (to say the least), so on the same lines that Corbyn has used regarding the necessity of the internet, I would say it is rather a necessity that we all have clothes we can wear... nationalise all clothing shops/brands I say.
And spending billions re-nationalising Royal Mail.. why? have you not been getting your post since it was privatised? I certainly have. In fact I haven't noticed a blind bit of difference. It is textbook ideology I'm afraid.
Where does this end?
You obviously don’t know me very well if you think I’d argue against nationalising supermarkets 😆
And yes, plenty of people don’t get post now, and those that do pay more for it.
Free your chains mate. Let’s leave it there as I have avoided doing my Unionised and non private sector job all morning arguing the toss with you.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:47 - Nov 15 with 1794 views
I read an article recently where a group of people from a cross section of society were given a blind test in terms of Party Policies. They were given a whole host of questions covering many aspects and then a multiple choice of answers for each which were all genuine policies from different parties.
The end result is that, unsurprisingly, most people want the core basics in life.... good health service, schools, amenities, transportation etc.
Why can't we just focus on that rather than all the unbelievable infantile bickering that goes on from supposed intelligent adults.
The problem with modern politics is it's become so extreme due to the social network world we live in. Say you're in favour of Labour and your're branded a 'socialist' (as though that's an extreme, which it's not) or if you're Tory you are fascist, anti-immigration etc.
It's all down to populist voting and I bet most people don't even know what each parties manifesto actually is.
BJ on BBC Breakfast this morning had to be repeatedly asked to stop going on about Labour and just answer the questions about his party and himself. It seems to me that's what election campaigning is about,from all Parties.... destroy the opposition rather than focus on your own merits.
Sick of the lot of them.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:50 - Nov 15 with 1780 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:47 - Nov 15 by Juzzie
I read an article recently where a group of people from a cross section of society were given a blind test in terms of Party Policies. They were given a whole host of questions covering many aspects and then a multiple choice of answers for each which were all genuine policies from different parties.
The end result is that, unsurprisingly, most people want the core basics in life.... good health service, schools, amenities, transportation etc.
Why can't we just focus on that rather than all the unbelievable infantile bickering that goes on from supposed intelligent adults.
The problem with modern politics is it's become so extreme due to the social network world we live in. Say you're in favour of Labour and your're branded a 'socialist' (as though that's an extreme, which it's not) or if you're Tory you are fascist, anti-immigration etc.
It's all down to populist voting and I bet most people don't even know what each parties manifesto actually is.
BJ on BBC Breakfast this morning had to be repeatedly asked to stop going on about Labour and just answer the questions about his party and himself. It seems to me that's what election campaigning is about,from all Parties.... destroy the opposition rather than focus on your own merits.
Sick of the lot of them.
Is this the one you mean?
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:56 - Nov 15 with 1759 views
Hardly anyone on here has a good word to say about this idea. Has nobody thought about those poor 3rd generation benefits families. With free broadband they can now apply for more grants whilst sat in the warm comfort of their council provided accommodation.
Spend the money on getting vulnerable kids off the street. Cracking down on knife crime.
Baz I admire your conviction but it aint gonna happen, free broadband or a corbinista government.
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 11:30 - Nov 15 by MrSheen
Why is fibre to the home so necessary? UK scores very well for speed and data downloads despite the lack of that fibre final connection. Other European markets are cable TV strongholds, which provides the last bit, whereas the UK relies more on satellite. 5G will be a cheaper last mile connection to a fibre backbone in a couple of years anyway.
I mean, it's about providing the infra-structure for the fourth industrial revolution, laying the groundwork for the future economy. Like building the rail roads, or the motor-way system.
Honest prediction. The FT will come out for Labour at this election. The Tories have been playing politics on easy-mode for too long and it's made them complacent. British conservatism has just run out of ideas. They aren't offering anything. Labour have an actual vision for the country, and if you look past the terrible standard of news reporting on what parties are offering, it's not only credible but it's _exciting_ -- a vision for a better country that will be nice to live in. Imagine!
[Post edited 15 Nov 2019 13:59]
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:05 - Nov 15 with 1735 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:50 - Nov 15 by BazzaInTheLoft
Is this the one you mean?
Not that one but it illustrates the same thing. People willing to vote on the personality of probably just a few people (which are probably take up 99% of the media's time) rather than just looking at the whole party and it's policies.
I did a quick google and found some links to blind tests..... I challenge people to take the test!
Well I for one am looking forward to filling out forms for my one hour of internet time a month. Internet use will need to be rationed to ensure fairness of course.
We'll have to use the new Corbynator 1000 that will be standard issue, clearly the best and most advanced computer in the world:
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:22 - Nov 15 with 1710 views
It's going to be really funny for some of you to look back at this and wonder how you could have been so opposed to universal provision of high speed broadband.
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:47 - Nov 15 with 1677 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:22 - Nov 15 by FDC
It's going to be really funny for some of you to look back at this and wonder how you could have been so opposed to universal provision of high speed broadband.
Yeah but I'll be doing it much more quickly and efficiently using my privately owned 5G
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:09 - Nov 15 with 1662 views
I won't be voting as I live in a safe Labour seat and my vote counts for nothing unlike in the referendum.
Voted Labour most of my life apart from for Blair, now they won't stand by the referendum result and the 3 legged donkey made up of JC, DA and J Mc would be a bigger disaster than even the tories.
I'm not against nationalisation of power and water but this internet. damn stupid.
LD's LOL would sell their soul to the devil for a few seats and we all saw what happened with them in the coalition, truly dreadful party.
Been digging into the economics of Labour's broadband plan. What's amazing - at least to me - is how much money you save simply by avoiding the costs of competition
According to the govt's own figures, providers fighting for the same customers adds £6.2bn to the total cost
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 15:40 - Nov 15 by FDC
Useful thread here from Sky News' technology bod
Been digging into the economics of Labour's broadband plan. What's amazing - at least to me - is how much money you save simply by avoiding the costs of competition
According to the govt's own figures, providers fighting for the same customers adds £6.2bn to the total cost
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 14:47 - Nov 15 by BuckR
Yeah but I'll be doing it much more quickly and efficiently using my privately owned 5G
Assuming you live in a major city where 5G is available....
Isn't the point of this policy to give everyone in the country a minimum level of broadband access that isn't there at the moment for people who don't live in major cities and towns. And many of these places don't get 4G coverage either.
Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:19 - Nov 15 with 1546 views
Strip away the partisan political stuff and the reality is that privatised utilities work erratically, expensively, and with minimal room for innovation. Was interesting seeing British Rail mentioned as an example of a terrible nationalised utility —Â not sure how many regular users of the privatised rail services in this country would back privatising it again knowing what we know now about the results.
Worth bearing in mind that the BT Tower itself was built as a then groundbreaking technological advance as part of a nationally owned utility - the GPO — at a time in the 60s when the country still took *genuine* pride in itself and invested in its own infrastructure as a result.
Feels like we have a similar choice now.
If the goal is for Britain to be a *real* competitive power economically in the 21st century, then you do it by having an educated, informed workforce and giving professional tools like online access to as many people as possible.
Of course, if the real goal is to leave the usual people in power and doom the next generation to humping boxes and driving rickshaws, then yes, leave it in the hands of people like John Malone, American owner of Virgin Media.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2019 16:28]
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:31 - Nov 15 with 1527 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:56 - Nov 15 by headhoops
Hardly anyone on here has a good word to say about this idea. Has nobody thought about those poor 3rd generation benefits families. With free broadband they can now apply for more grants whilst sat in the warm comfort of their council provided accommodation.
Spend the money on getting vulnerable kids off the street. Cracking down on knife crime.
Baz I admire your conviction but it aint gonna happen, free broadband or a corbinista government.
Not really a representative sample of people on here either to know either way. (Unless I'm missing all the people under 50?)
Pretty grim to see council housing equated with being lazy. Might want to keep that to yourself next time you're walking past people's homes on the White City to get to the football.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2019 16:46]
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:47 - Nov 15 with 1484 views
Yes like that only more personal. Access to certain websites denied or speed slowed down or withdrawn as punishment for protest etc and knock on the door at midnight for anti government online chat ... You make my point actually , you found this on the web ,with state control it would be buried
[Post edited 15 Nov 2019 16:49]
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Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 16:49 - Nov 15 with 1475 views
Government controlling the Internet - a good or bad thing discuss on 13:22 - Nov 15 by DavieQPR
Anther stupid ill thought out policy from the so called Labour Party. The cost of purchasing the shares and meeting Pension costs, which is paid for out of Broadband profits, would be in the region of £100m. Plus almost every Pension Fund holds shares in BT that would be devalued. Taxing Google, Amazon and E bay for this amount would not sit lightly with the US as they are all American companies. Thought that money was going to the NHS anyway.
Surely Amazon, Google, Ebay etc (all American) stand to benefit most from this? So why shouldn’t they contribute?
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