| Those US Women 15:59 - Jul 31 with 2457 views | Boston |
....who won some recent cup lark, made vociferous complaints about being paid less then their male counterparts. The furor has resulted in the governing body releasing some eyebrow raising stats...a/ the US women were paid $34.1 million last year compared to $26.4 million for the men. Ok says you, they were more successful, but apparently they’ve been paid $8 million more over the last decade and received benefits including medical, dental pensions etc etc, which the gents don’t get. The list goes on, but I have to get back to work. [Post edited 31 Jul 2019 15:59]
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| Those US Women on 16:12 - Jul 31 with 2067 views | Antti_Heinola |
Two sides to every story of course.
The US women's football team has accused its federation of using a "ruse" by saying they earn more than the men's national side.
The US women's team (USWNT) began legal action against the US Soccer Federation (USSF) over equal pay in March, four months before retaining the World Cup.
On Monday, the USSF said the women's team had been paid more than the men's over the last decade.
But a USWNT statement said the numbers were "utterly false".
"This is a sad attempt by USSF to quell the overwhelming tide of support the USWNT has received from everyone from fans to sponsors to the United States Congress," it added.
"The USSF has repeatedly admitted that it does not pay the women equally and that it does not believe the women even deserve to be paid equally."
In an open letter, USSF president Carlos Cordeiro said he had commissioned an "extensive analysis" of US Soccer's "financials" over the last 10 years, which stated:
Women's national team-contracted players have a guaranteed base salary of $100,000, while the men have no guaranteed salary and only get paid for training camps, games and bonuses.
US Soccer also pays WNT-contracted players playing in the National Women's Soccer League a base salary of $67,500-$72,500, while men playing in the MLS receive no pay from US soccer.
WNT-contracted players receive guaranteed benefits, for example health, dental and vision insurance, retirement plan, maternity leave, injury protection, childcare assistance.
Men's national team players get larger bonuses but are guaranteed nothing and receive no benefits.
His letter added that the men's and women's teams have "different pay structures" because each team "chose to negotiate a different compensation package" with US Soccer.
However, the USWNT said it had "refused" its request for an equal compensation structure - calling it the "very definition of gender discrimination".
"The fact is the women's team requested the same compensation structure as the men have, so they would be paid equally for equal performance," the statement continued.
"USSF refused, ordering lower compensation in every category for the women's team in a pay for performance structure.
"That is patently unequal pay. The USSF fact sheet is not a "clarification". It is a ruse. Here is what they cannot deny.
"For every game a man plays on the MNT he makes a higher base salary payment than a woman on the WNT. For every comparable win or tie, his bonus is higher.
"That is the very definition of gender discrimination. For the USSF to believe otherwise is disheartening but it only increases our determination to obtain true equal pay. If the USSF cannot agree to this at the upcoming mediation, we will see them in the court of law and the court of public opinion." |  |
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| Those US Women on 16:26 - Jul 31 with 2024 views | WokingR |
Does anyone really give a toss ? |  | | |
| Those US Women on 16:35 - Jul 31 with 1994 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Those US Women on 16:26 - Jul 31 by WokingR |
Does anyone really give a toss ? |
that's a loaded question. | |
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| Those US Women on 16:38 - Jul 31 with 1972 views | Tonto |
| Those US Women on 16:26 - Jul 31 by WokingR |
Does anyone really give a toss ? |
Yes. Unless of course you are a misogynistic sexist moron.
Not saying you are but we should all give a toss about inequality in every guise. |  |
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| Those US Women on 16:39 - Jul 31 with 1971 views | DavieQPR |
Stop discriminating and make the women play in the mens league. It should either be treated as a different sport and evolve naturally or if they think they are on par then so be it. |  | | |
| Those US Women on 16:43 - Jul 31 with 1956 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Those US Women on 16:39 - Jul 31 by DavieQPR |
Stop discriminating and make the women play in the mens league. It should either be treated as a different sport and evolve naturally or if they think they are on par then so be it. |
Ironically I think the US Women's team make more money and is watched by more people than the men's team, but HASN'T evolved naturally and been reflected in pay etc and that's the issue.
The ultimate indicator of someone's true value to their industry is what happens when it's withdrawn.
Go on strike ladies and see what happens. [Post edited 31 Jul 2019 16:47]
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| Those US Women on 17:21 - Jul 31 with 1849 views | stowmarketrange |
| Those US Women on 16:38 - Jul 31 by Tonto |
Yes. Unless of course you are a misogynistic sexist moron.
Not saying you are but we should all give a toss about inequality in every guise. |
Maybe we can have the same argument about why women tennis players get the same money but do less work than the men do?
I’m totally against discrimination in all forms,but there would be uproar if men kicked up a fuss over that sport. |  | | |
| Those US Women on 17:25 - Jul 31 with 1838 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Those US Women on 17:21 - Jul 31 by stowmarketrange |
Maybe we can have the same argument about why women tennis players get the same money but do less work than the men do?
I’m totally against discrimination in all forms,but there would be uproar if men kicked up a fuss over that sport. |
there's already a debate about it, but, to be honest, they should shorten mens matches to 3 sets (as it is in most tournaments outside the slams) - it's fkin interminable. Plus, if they stopped wiping their foreheads with a ruddy great towel after every two-shot rally, they could shave an hour off any game. Also, stop bloody resting all the time. how about a sit down every 30 mins instead of every 6 minutes? The nonsense in tennis, honestly. | |
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| Those US Women on 17:31 - Jul 31 with 1823 views | stowmarketrange |
| Those US Women on 17:25 - Jul 31 by Antti_Heinola |
there's already a debate about it, but, to be honest, they should shorten mens matches to 3 sets (as it is in most tournaments outside the slams) - it's fkin interminable. Plus, if they stopped wiping their foreheads with a ruddy great towel after every two-shot rally, they could shave an hour off any game. Also, stop bloody resting all the time. how about a sit down every 30 mins instead of every 6 minutes? The nonsense in tennis, honestly. |
I say the same to my Mrs,who loves tennis.She says that they play for 4 hours+,but the average footballer runs as much in 90 mins as they do in over twice the time.
Bunch of pansies. | | | |
| Those US Women on 19:34 - Jul 31 with 1664 views | essextaxiboy |
In the US the women can probably attract bigger " soccer" sponsors than the men. It's a different stream from American Football and Baseball partners .. |  | | |
| Those US Women on 21:22 - Jul 31 with 1553 views | MrSheen |
They’re arguing at cross-purposes. The women are paid more by the FA than the men, because they are directly employed and assigned to clubs like English cricketers on central contracts. The men are employed by their clubs and paid appearance money by the FA. This includes success bonuses that are higher in theory than the women can earn, but the men are playing in their World Cup which is a complete bonanza (and which they won’t ever win). The men get additional pay from their clubs, but they play in front of average attendances over 20,000, while the women play before 6,000. The men have a broadcast deal. The women’s league doesn’t. It might not always be the case that journeymen get more than the world’s best women players, but it’s not the fault of their FA. |  | | |
| Those US Women on 22:06 - Jul 31 with 1497 views | Boston |
Does quality or the standard of play matter in this question? The truth is that the women's US team would lose to every male college side in the country, they'd probably lose to every boys high school team as well, I've even read of them losing (convincingly),to boys U15's. | |
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| Those US Women on 22:31 - Jul 31 with 1445 views | kensalriser |
| Those US Women on 22:06 - Jul 31 by Boston |
Does quality or the standard of play matter in this question? The truth is that the women's US team would lose to every male college side in the country, they'd probably lose to every boys high school team as well, I've even read of them losing (convincingly),to boys U15's. |
Not really. In the end, it's all about how big the audience is. |  |
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| Those US Women on 08:00 - Aug 1 with 1276 views | GroveR |
| Those US Women on 22:31 - Jul 31 by kensalriser |
Not really. In the end, it's all about how big the audience is. |
Never mind the quality, feel the width. |  | | |
| Those US Women on 09:12 - Aug 1 with 1212 views | nix |
| Those US Women on 22:06 - Jul 31 by Boston |
Does quality or the standard of play matter in this question? The truth is that the women's US team would lose to every male college side in the country, they'd probably lose to every boys high school team as well, I've even read of them losing (convincingly),to boys U15's. |
Not quite sure what you're saying here. So because you're not at the same level as another league, you might as well give up? This explains out fan base then. We're not exactly going to beat Barcelona, Real Madrid or Man City but it doesn't mean we're not playing football or aren't worth watching.
If you want to go to the 'women wouldn't beat men' echo chamber, you'd definitely fine a home in Reddit. Do you think women aren't aware of this? Do you think that the people who enjoy women's football don't realise it's not the same quality and physicality? We all know that men are faster, stronger, have greater stamina. And your point is we should just give up then? Don't you have a sister, girlfriend, daughter, female friend? Do you really want none of them to have any sporting opportunities? If so, that's pretty crap.
Jo Konta is never going to beat an average professional men's player but I'd a million times prefer to see her play than Opelka vs Isner. Power isn't everything. And women's football will improve in quality like women's tennis has since Francoise Durr used to play patball serves and still get into Wimbledon. As the coaching and opportunities improve, so will the sport. In the same way as women in comedy used to be non existent when no women did it apart from Jo Brand but I' find Roisin Connaughty, Ashling Bee and Phoebe Waller Bridge funnier than Jim Davidson. Things change. Women will never beat men at sport. But so what? |  | | |
| Those US Women on 10:35 - Aug 1 with 1168 views | GroveR |
| Those US Women on 09:12 - Aug 1 by nix |
Not quite sure what you're saying here. So because you're not at the same level as another league, you might as well give up? This explains out fan base then. We're not exactly going to beat Barcelona, Real Madrid or Man City but it doesn't mean we're not playing football or aren't worth watching.
If you want to go to the 'women wouldn't beat men' echo chamber, you'd definitely fine a home in Reddit. Do you think women aren't aware of this? Do you think that the people who enjoy women's football don't realise it's not the same quality and physicality? We all know that men are faster, stronger, have greater stamina. And your point is we should just give up then? Don't you have a sister, girlfriend, daughter, female friend? Do you really want none of them to have any sporting opportunities? If so, that's pretty crap.
Jo Konta is never going to beat an average professional men's player but I'd a million times prefer to see her play than Opelka vs Isner. Power isn't everything. And women's football will improve in quality like women's tennis has since Francoise Durr used to play patball serves and still get into Wimbledon. As the coaching and opportunities improve, so will the sport. In the same way as women in comedy used to be non existent when no women did it apart from Jo Brand but I' find Roisin Connaughty, Ashling Bee and Phoebe Waller Bridge funnier than Jim Davidson. Things change. Women will never beat men at sport. But so what? |
I find cancer funnier than Jim Davidson. | | | |
| Those US Women on 11:32 - Aug 1 with 1139 views | 1MoreBrightonR |
Yeah, i think what makes a lot of the usual counter arguments fail in the US is that from a commercial and on the pitch point of view, the womens team is more succesful than the men's in quite a few ways...sponsorship, attendances, clothing sales etc so the money is there. In the UK, when games get a few thousand to them, arguing the player should get the same as premier league players is pretty complicated. | | | |
| Those US Women on 12:18 - Aug 1 with 1100 views | Clive_Anderson |
We're heading for endless debates about sexism in football now.
The best solution would be to have separate associations for men's and women's football to avoid this. | | | |
| Those US Women on 12:59 - Aug 1 with 1047 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Those US Women on 12:18 - Aug 1 by Clive_Anderson |
We're heading for endless debates about sexism in football now.
The best solution would be to have separate associations for men's and women's football to avoid this. |
How? | | | |
| Those US Women on 13:26 - Aug 1 with 1013 views | Clive_Anderson |
Men's FA and FIFA administer the men's game and separate bodies for the women's game.
Women feel that they are't getting a fair deal from the combined bodies due to sexism. | | | |
| Those US Women on 14:03 - Aug 1 with 954 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Those US Women on 13:26 - Aug 1 by Clive_Anderson |
Men's FA and FIFA administer the men's game and separate bodies for the women's game.
Women feel that they are't getting a fair deal from the combined bodies due to sexism. |
I still don't understand how this would make them feel less underpaid?
You either feel you have a fair deal or you don't? | | | |
| Those US Women on 14:10 - Aug 1 with 937 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Those US Women on 14:03 - Aug 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I still don't understand how this would make them feel less underpaid?
You either feel you have a fair deal or you don't? |
Oh right.
Well if a woman feels underpaid compared to a man in their company they can claim sexism. If they are underpaid compared to someone in a different company then they can't.
Also presumably if they feel a mixed governing body can't give them a fair deal, then a body set up purely for women will do a better job. Everyone is happy. | | | |
| Those US Women on 14:19 - Aug 1 with 923 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Those US Women on 14:10 - Aug 1 by Clive_Anderson |
Oh right.
Well if a woman feels underpaid compared to a man in their company they can claim sexism. If they are underpaid compared to someone in a different company then they can't.
Also presumably if they feel a mixed governing body can't give them a fair deal, then a body set up purely for women will do a better job. Everyone is happy. |
That's not a solution it's the insertion of a barrier against better pay. It's just a gag.
Your second sentence makes more sense. I think the threat of losing their primary income stream would force US Soccer into coughing up. | | | |
| Those US Women on 14:33 - Aug 1 with 905 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Those US Women on 14:19 - Aug 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
That's not a solution it's the insertion of a barrier against better pay. It's just a gag.
Your second sentence makes more sense. I think the threat of losing their primary income stream would force US Soccer into coughing up. |
I don't know, it just might be nice to be able to watch football without politics and accusations of sexism flying about every 5 minutes like in tennis. We're already called racist most of the time as it is.
The men have more leverage for pay as their clubs are their main employers, so they can tell the national team to get stuffed if they don't like the pay conditions. It's more economics rather than sexism | | | |
| Those US Women on 14:59 - Aug 1 with 866 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Those US Women on 14:33 - Aug 1 by Clive_Anderson |
I don't know, it just might be nice to be able to watch football without politics and accusations of sexism flying about every 5 minutes like in tennis. We're already called racist most of the time as it is.
The men have more leverage for pay as their clubs are their main employers, so they can tell the national team to get stuffed if they don't like the pay conditions. It's more economics rather than sexism |
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it Clive? Is listening to a bit of TV coverage on the matter really any skin off your nose? We all have the right to fight for better pay and conditions, it just so happens they are subject to media scrutiny more than say West Midlands Council workers.
This wouldn't be a problem under Communism*
*That was a wind up by the way. Sort of. | | | |
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