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The terrorist threat in the UK on 17:08 - May 29 by londonlisa2001
Sorry, what response do you want me to have?
Islam has an appalling attitude towards gay people. As it does to women. As it does to many, many other things. So do other religions. Hopefully this will change. UK society at large, as it becomes more secular has moved away from believing in this shit. Religious leaders as a whole have not. I hope that as the Moslem population becomes more secular they will also move away from it. This is less likely to happen in areas where Moslems are less 'mixed' into the rest of our society and are less metropolitan in outlook.
That would also be the case of other sections of our society. As an example, the stuff routinely said on here about gay people would be largely unacceptable in London in my experience.
For the avoidance of any doubt. Any discrimination whatsoever against gay people is utterly abhorrent. I don't think anyone would be surprised to read me saying that as I've said it over and over again.
Thanks for the response, Lisa.
But a lot of shifting and deflecting there. Just call a spade a spade, please?
The numbers would look far worse if they were taken from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or Yemen, etc.
And other religions don't compare. You brought up Westboro, which is 50 people at the most. That's the type of false equivalency that ISIS and other extremists are depending on people like you to bring up.
"We're just as bad!! It's all our fault they think and act like this!!"
No it's not. They have the capability to think for themselves and they CHOOSE not to. The problem is in Islam and it's inherent fundamentalism, and that is the only truth here.
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The terrorist threat in the UK on 17:24 - May 29 with 1793 views
The terrorist threat in the UK on 11:56 - May 29 by londonlisa2001
Owen Jones doesn't cow to the attitude of Islamic extremists towards gay people though does he.
He just doesn't assume that ordinary Moslems hold the same views.
And I can't bear Owen Jones by the way.
Jones hardly speaks out about it, does he? Same as his beloved Venezuela, who have an appalling record of human right abuses to both homosexuals and journalists.
The terrorist threat in the UK on 17:14 - May 29 by londonlisa2001
What - other than the response I've posted you mean?
Thinking I'm an apologist for islam's views about gay people is pretty funny it must be said.
Posted at the same time as your response. And I edited it.
You made yourself the apologist by saying you have "two gay Muslim friends" or whatever and that somehow disproves actual facts about Islam's view on homosexuality.
The terrorist threat in the UK on 17:21 - May 29 by Nirvana
Thanks for the response, Lisa.
But a lot of shifting and deflecting there. Just call a spade a spade, please?
The numbers would look far worse if they were taken from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or Yemen, etc.
And other religions don't compare. You brought up Westboro, which is 50 people at the most. That's the type of false equivalency that ISIS and other extremists are depending on people like you to bring up.
"We're just as bad!! It's all our fault they think and act like this!!"
No it's not. They have the capability to think for themselves and they CHOOSE not to. The problem is in Islam and it's inherent fundamentalism, and that is the only truth here.
I said "Islam has an appalling attitude towards gay people. As it does to women. As it does to many, many other things." How is that not calling a spade a spade?
And I didn't say Westboro was equivalent - I said that gay people don't agree with their views either.
And yes the numbers would look awful in Saudi, or Yemen or Pakistan. What do you think they would look like in Russia? Or Africa? What about the Caribbean?
The problem is religion imposing its views on society. That's true of all religions. But in the U.K., many people from a Christian background (including me), take little or no notice. The only point I make about the Moslem community is that they don't all take notice of their religion either.
I bet if you did a survey of the Moslem community they would all or nearly all say they disapprove of alcohol. But guess what. A lot of them drink.
The Moslem people I know personally, are really no different to anyone else in terms of their views on being gay or anything else.
And at no point have I said that ANYTHING is our fault, so don't try to twist stuff.
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The terrorist threat in the UK on 17:50 - May 29 with 1742 views
The terrorist threat in the UK on 17:32 - May 29 by londonlisa2001
I said "Islam has an appalling attitude towards gay people. As it does to women. As it does to many, many other things." How is that not calling a spade a spade?
And I didn't say Westboro was equivalent - I said that gay people don't agree with their views either.
And yes the numbers would look awful in Saudi, or Yemen or Pakistan. What do you think they would look like in Russia? Or Africa? What about the Caribbean?
The problem is religion imposing its views on society. That's true of all religions. But in the U.K., many people from a Christian background (including me), take little or no notice. The only point I make about the Moslem community is that they don't all take notice of their religion either.
I bet if you did a survey of the Moslem community they would all or nearly all say they disapprove of alcohol. But guess what. A lot of them drink.
The Moslem people I know personally, are really no different to anyone else in terms of their views on being gay or anything else.
And at no point have I said that ANYTHING is our fault, so don't try to twist stuff.
As facts will show views on homosexuality, their requisite punishments, and the difference in global scale between Islam and any other religion has no comparison. And you do keep saying they are equivalent. They aren't in any way.
Fundamentalism in religion is of course the underlying issue, but it's far more prevalent in Islam and a brief search on Google will confirm that with facts.
And Islam's problems are far more than just homophobia. Look it up if you'd like, but I know you won't.
You have Muslim friends? That's great. So do I. They are either Westerners who don't know sshitt about the homeland, or they are immigrants. The vast majority of Muslim immigrants I know are actually ffukkingg ecstatic they don't have to live in Bangladesh or Iran or Indonesia, etc.
Do you know why? Because those ffukkingg countries are nightmares, and the reason is their strict interpretations of Islam. But that doesn't mean they don't also hold views I find deplorable.
That is my point and always will be. Not all Muslims are bad. But Islam needs to have an enlightenment. Until then, this is the reality.
The terrorist threat in the UK on 17:50 - May 29 by Nirvana
As facts will show views on homosexuality, their requisite punishments, and the difference in global scale between Islam and any other religion has no comparison. And you do keep saying they are equivalent. They aren't in any way.
Fundamentalism in religion is of course the underlying issue, but it's far more prevalent in Islam and a brief search on Google will confirm that with facts.
And Islam's problems are far more than just homophobia. Look it up if you'd like, but I know you won't.
You have Muslim friends? That's great. So do I. They are either Westerners who don't know sshitt about the homeland, or they are immigrants. The vast majority of Muslim immigrants I know are actually ffukkingg ecstatic they don't have to live in Bangladesh or Iran or Indonesia, etc.
Do you know why? Because those ffukkingg countries are nightmares, and the reason is their strict interpretations of Islam. But that doesn't mean they don't also hold views I find deplorable.
That is my point and always will be. Not all Muslims are bad. But Islam needs to have an enlightenment. Until then, this is the reality.
What on earth are you talking about?
I've said Islam has abhorrent views on many things. You saying that Moslems you know are Westernised backs up exactly what I've said, and the only thing I've said. Which is that Moslems don't all agree with all their religious teachings. In the same way as every other religious group doesn't.
Yet everyone is happy to say that's the case for Christians, or Jews, or others, but assumes all Moslems agree with all their teaching. It's double standards.
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The terrorist threat in the UK on 18:15 - May 29 with 1701 views
The terrorist threat in the UK on 18:01 - May 29 by londonlisa2001
What on earth are you talking about?
I've said Islam has abhorrent views on many things. You saying that Moslems you know are Westernised backs up exactly what I've said, and the only thing I've said. Which is that Moslems don't all agree with all their religious teachings. In the same way as every other religious group doesn't.
Yet everyone is happy to say that's the case for Christians, or Jews, or others, but assumes all Moslems agree with all their teaching. It's double standards.
And, cue the hysterics. Last post on this as you continue to evade the content of my posts to suit your agenda.
I did not say anyone was Westernized. I said Westerners. Meaning they were born in the West and have only known that way of life. And I also said immigrants, meaning people not from the West who immigrate there. Simple stuff really.
(edit: And I only know Muslims who have successfully assimilated into Western culture. There are far more who do not. Their views are more controversial than the ones I know, for sure.)
No, all MUSLIMS do not universally agree with every single thing as everyone else. But they are far more uniform in thought and action than other religions, and those are the facts. Again, look it up when you have the time. Like right now.
And the things they think and act on are far more controversial and "abhorrent" than other religions, it's not even close. Name another religion that has entire armies willing to fight and die for it. You can't, because there aren't any.
I'd suggest you take a trip to Bangladesh or Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. It would be a crime for you to walk around without a burka, to drive a car, to be in public without your male guardian, and ffukkingg so much more that I'll let you look up.
Enjoy your evening, Lisa, I hope the weather is lovely in London.
[Post edited 29 May 2017 18:24]
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The terrorist threat in the UK on 18:17 - May 29 with 1695 views
Such a complicated issue, you feel like saying deport all muslims, that is my gut feeling! (which of course will never happen)... But what can you do? Perhaps I have been misled in what I have read, but I do feel as if they are really trying to make Europe like the middle east.. And the funny thing anyone here, who would chastise me for these comments, you do not have the answer..
libera nos a malo
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The terrorist threat in the UK on 20:16 - May 29 with 1547 views
The terrorist threat in the UK on 20:03 - May 29 by Jack123
Such a complicated issue, you feel like saying deport all muslims, that is my gut feeling! (which of course will never happen)... But what can you do? Perhaps I have been misled in what I have read, but I do feel as if they are really trying to make Europe like the middle east.. And the funny thing anyone here, who would chastise me for these comments, you do not have the answer..
Three things need to be done IMHO
None of which will be, of course.
1. Change UK and US foreign policy to be non-interventionist 2. Ban faith schools.
and lastly..
3. Stop all Muslim immigration, This may limit the muslim population to 20% otherwise the UK will be a muslim majority country within a couple of generations (all things being equal).
The terrorist threat in the UK on 18:15 - May 29 by Nirvana
And, cue the hysterics. Last post on this as you continue to evade the content of my posts to suit your agenda.
I did not say anyone was Westernized. I said Westerners. Meaning they were born in the West and have only known that way of life. And I also said immigrants, meaning people not from the West who immigrate there. Simple stuff really.
(edit: And I only know Muslims who have successfully assimilated into Western culture. There are far more who do not. Their views are more controversial than the ones I know, for sure.)
No, all MUSLIMS do not universally agree with every single thing as everyone else. But they are far more uniform in thought and action than other religions, and those are the facts. Again, look it up when you have the time. Like right now.
And the things they think and act on are far more controversial and "abhorrent" than other religions, it's not even close. Name another religion that has entire armies willing to fight and die for it. You can't, because there aren't any.
I'd suggest you take a trip to Bangladesh or Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. It would be a crime for you to walk around without a burka, to drive a car, to be in public without your male guardian, and ffukkingg so much more that I'll let you look up.
Enjoy your evening, Lisa, I hope the weather is lovely in London.
[Post edited 29 May 2017 18:24]
Yes, any understanding of Islam will give you a window to the thinking.
Christianity is a faith, islam is a 'way of life'
We all know people who go to Church on a Sunday, you might do yourselves or read the Bible, say their prayers etc. The huge difference with Islam is that it pervades right through their lives in everything.
i.e. it isn't very flexible, it's not modernised in anyway in fact most islamic scholars will say this is a strength that it hasnt reformed since the 7th Century where as other faiths have constantly evolved.
We are in for years of problems and I really don't know whether we'll see an end to it for literally decades, this is a fight we should not be involved with but we've imported problems for some inexplicable reason.
[Post edited 29 May 2017 22:17]
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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The terrorist threat in the UK on 22:18 - May 29 with 1451 views
The terrorist threat in the UK on 20:16 - May 29 by dailew
Three things need to be done IMHO
None of which will be, of course.
1. Change UK and US foreign policy to be non-interventionist 2. Ban faith schools.
and lastly..
3. Stop all Muslim immigration, This may limit the muslim population to 20% otherwise the UK will be a muslim majority country within a couple of generations (all things being equal).
Faith schools were absolutely fine, in fact many parents love them for their academic success - pretty sad indictment if we have to do that
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
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The terrorist threat in the UK on 22:19 - May 29 with 1447 views
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