| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch 10:53 - Sep 17 with 36137 views | Darran |
Did any of you hear Jason Price being called a lazy black bastard with sheer regularity?
It's a no from me. [Post edited 17 Sep 2017 17:27]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:24 - Sep 20 with 1042 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:14 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Er....no.
It's nowhere near as simple as you are trying to make out. I cannot comment on the validity of your claim but if, as you say 15 people were around and 5 heard it but 10 didn't, ... they are all witnesses and a jury or credible person would decide who they believe, not e20.
Also, the credibility of each of those witnesses would be brought into question, all 15.
So. If 5 say they did and 10 say they didn't and that is all you had, the chances are the 10 would be believed. These are witness statements and not proof of the event.
Anyway, this thing about any abuse JJ may have received was not heard by me. Not saying it didn't happen as perhaps I was not in earshot of it. Given I was on the NB throughout the 90s I would be in the not heard it camp. Like you said though, doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are just far more who didn't hear it which perhaps makes it less believable.
Not only that, for something that far back memories can play tricks on some people. Perhaps you've become a victim of the Mandela effect? |
It is absolutely as simple as I am observing.
I am not claiming anything. I and others are stating factually what occured. It is not a claim of any kind. Others have said they personally did not hear it, that is proof of nothing other than them not hearing it.
Again, you are incorrect. People that did not hear anything, or did not see anything are not witnesses, as the very fact they witnessed nothing, if they witnessed every comment then they could be - but we all know that it is impossible and location specific, so saying they heard nothing has minimal to no effect on the statements of people that did. "Being around" is neither here nor there. It is the 5 that did hear something that is important, and that is what seems to be annoying so many people here.
I would suggest that time would make people forget rather than make people remember. Your arguments are a little odd, you have taken all reasoning that clearly only backs my side and attempted to claim it for the opposition. I am afraid it does not work like that.
Those that did not hear it, simply did not hear it (some of whom, were not even there). Those that said they did hear it, heard it.
Unless you are telling me the weird bloke that stood on our right game in game out during the 90's didnt exist because 4 of our group of 12 remember him and 8 dont? Someone must have sneaked in while sleeping and planted the same memory in a third of us of the same person. Weird.
Sorry Costa, I know you are part of the group that get all excited when I post and go to all sorts of extremes to take the opposite stance, but there really is nowhere to go on this subject. The primary first hand evidence is heavily weighted in my favour. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 11:29]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:32 - Sep 20 with 1033 views | Darran |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:14 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Er....no.
It's nowhere near as simple as you are trying to make out. I cannot comment on the validity of your claim but if, as you say 15 people were around and 5 heard it but 10 didn't, ... they are all witnesses and a jury or credible person would decide who they believe, not e20.
Also, the credibility of each of those witnesses would be brought into question, all 15.
So. If 5 say they did and 10 say they didn't and that is all you had, the chances are the 10 would be believed. These are witness statements and not proof of the event.
Anyway, this thing about any abuse JJ may have received was not heard by me. Not saying it didn't happen as perhaps I was not in earshot of it. Given I was on the NB throughout the 90s I would be in the not heard it camp. Like you said though, doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are just far more who didn't hear it which perhaps makes it less believable.
Not only that, for something that far back memories can play tricks on some people. Perhaps you've become a victim of the Mandela effect? |
It didn't happen Costa. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:33 - Sep 20 with 1032 views | ItchySphincter |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 09:20 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
There is no blind spot. The people that do remember it on this thread are far more valuable to the event than thise that don't. Most of my mates dont remember the weird bloke that always stood to our right, but there are some that do. Their accounts are far more valuable than the most that dont, they just clearly dont remember or did not notice - to assume he never existed just because they do not recall would be crazy.
How anyone can think they are tuned in to every comment when a thousand strong are shouting at a player is beyond me. I would assume what you hear is largely due to where exactly you were in the North Bank. Can you tell me every sentence shouted by every person at the same time when JJ lost the ball? Clearly not.
There are 4 people on this thread who vividly remember it (and a host of others off this site that do). To suggest they did not, just because you did not is sheer lunacy or extreme revisionist and wishful thinking.
I say again, not hearing something is not proof an event did not occur, it just means you did not hear it. Hearing something is however. He was abused on almost a game by game basis, some of this racist. Now choose not to believe - fine. State you did not personally hear - fine.
But neither of those change the fact that it did and that many as a result heard it. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 9:26]
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You change your tune more often than Dave Lee Travis. |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:33 - Sep 20 with 1031 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:32 - Sep 20 by Darran |
It didn't happen Costa. |
Yes we all made up the same memory to trick the bloke in the center stand.
Such great fun we are. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:35 - Sep 20 with 1028 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:33 - Sep 20 by ItchySphincter |
You change your tune more often than Dave Lee Travis. |
Or you change your level of comprehension?
My posts have not waivered and most certainly will not. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:44 - Sep 20 with 1010 views | ItchySphincter |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:35 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
Or you change your level of comprehension?
My posts have not waivered and most certainly will not. |
It's all disingenuous with you. You'll never be pinned down because you'll argue semantics but at the end of the day you've used two threads in an attempt to label our fans as racist when it's clear that you have attempted to make a generalised claim based on a players race, which my little friend is racist. Your attempts to poison the well are clearly not working sheriff. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:55 - Sep 20 with 1000 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:44 - Sep 20 by ItchySphincter |
It's all disingenuous with you. You'll never be pinned down because you'll argue semantics but at the end of the day you've used two threads in an attempt to label our fans as racist when it's clear that you have attempted to make a generalised claim based on a players race, which my little friend is racist. Your attempts to poison the well are clearly not working sheriff. |
You can call me all the names under the sun my good man, it changes nothing. I have not attempted to do anything. I, like others before me and probably many after, simply noted that there seems to be a clear correlation between skin colour and abuse aimed at effort.
If you don't like this/disagree/dont want to face it - then that is fine by me. But what has been said by mysekf and others is first hand factual information. I am afraid you will just have to lump it, regardless of its palatability. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:57 - Sep 20 with 997 views | Darran |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:55 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
You can call me all the names under the sun my good man, it changes nothing. I have not attempted to do anything. I, like others before me and probably many after, simply noted that there seems to be a clear correlation between skin colour and abuse aimed at effort.
If you don't like this/disagree/dont want to face it - then that is fine by me. But what has been said by mysekf and others is first hand factual information. I am afraid you will just have to lump it, regardless of its palatability. |
Yeah but nobody else has said they heard Jason Price being called a lazy black bastard with sheer regularity. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:59 - Sep 20 with 995 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:57 - Sep 20 by Darran |
Yeah but nobody else has said they heard Jason Price being called a lazy black bastard with sheer regularity. |
I said he was abused with sheer regularity, some of which was racist. That is very different to what you twisted it to.
And on that subject, you did not read the very first reply then? Or the second. Or the one that quoted the first reply and said "this"? Or the person I asked if it happened and he said "it absolutely did"?
Selective reading can be fun I guess. But not entirely helpful. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 12:00]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 12:02 - Sep 20 with 986 views | Darran |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:59 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
I said he was abused with sheer regularity, some of which was racist. That is very different to what you twisted it to.
And on that subject, you did not read the very first reply then? Or the second. Or the one that quoted the first reply and said "this"? Or the person I asked if it happened and he said "it absolutely did"?
Selective reading can be fun I guess. But not entirely helpful. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 12:00]
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Didn't happen. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 12:03 - Sep 20 with 984 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 12:02 - Sep 20 by Darran |
Didn't happen. |
Yes we all made it up to trick you.
Guffaw. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 13:22 - Sep 20 with 928 views | 1462jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 21:04 - Sep 17 by Dan_Swan |
Dar,
I've been a season ticket holder for 22 Seasons, I stood on the North bank not too far from the gantry, but towards the noisy lot. I went to many, many away games during that time and I cannot recall any abuse like what you've mentioned. |
He received Abuse as did other swans players as for racial ? Not that I remember |  | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 13:25 - Sep 20 with 925 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:24 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
It is absolutely as simple as I am observing.
I am not claiming anything. I and others are stating factually what occured. It is not a claim of any kind. Others have said they personally did not hear it, that is proof of nothing other than them not hearing it.
Again, you are incorrect. People that did not hear anything, or did not see anything are not witnesses, as the very fact they witnessed nothing, if they witnessed every comment then they could be - but we all know that it is impossible and location specific, so saying they heard nothing has minimal to no effect on the statements of people that did. "Being around" is neither here nor there. It is the 5 that did hear something that is important, and that is what seems to be annoying so many people here.
I would suggest that time would make people forget rather than make people remember. Your arguments are a little odd, you have taken all reasoning that clearly only backs my side and attempted to claim it for the opposition. I am afraid it does not work like that.
Those that did not hear it, simply did not hear it (some of whom, were not even there). Those that said they did hear it, heard it.
Unless you are telling me the weird bloke that stood on our right game in game out during the 90's didnt exist because 4 of our group of 12 remember him and 8 dont? Someone must have sneaked in while sleeping and planted the same memory in a third of us of the same person. Weird.
Sorry Costa, I know you are part of the group that get all excited when I post and go to all sorts of extremes to take the opposite stance, but there really is nowhere to go on this subject. The primary first hand evidence is heavily weighted in my favour. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 11:29]
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No I'm not, you are in your understanding but as you are what you are you have minimal chance to understand, or grow.
I will giv you 1 example. If you and I are standing in a bar and someone claims to have been racially abused. You heard it and I didn't. Just because I didn't hear it it does not mean that it happened. Equally the opposite is true. So, both are witnesses where one heard and one didn't. In fact, I have been in that exact position as a member of a jury.
I, unlike you haven't claimed it did or didn't happen. You are dul aren't you.
I am not a psychologist/pyschiatrist so wouldn't like to comment on how or what people may remeber given the arrow of time.
How do you know those that didn't hear it were not there? Perhaps you were not there?
I didn't stand next to you (thankfully) in the 90s.
I'm not even going to try and explain the rest of the obvious to you cos I honestly don't think you have the mental capacity to understand it.
There are a number of things that get me excited , goergous women, fine food and wine, good conversation, good ideas, watching my children grow up, the med, and successfully running my own business and buying my hacienda was pretty exciting too. Note your not on that list. I will admit though, You are occasionally entertaining in a way. |  | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:01 - Sep 20 with 892 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 13:25 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
No I'm not, you are in your understanding but as you are what you are you have minimal chance to understand, or grow.
I will giv you 1 example. If you and I are standing in a bar and someone claims to have been racially abused. You heard it and I didn't. Just because I didn't hear it it does not mean that it happened. Equally the opposite is true. So, both are witnesses where one heard and one didn't. In fact, I have been in that exact position as a member of a jury.
I, unlike you haven't claimed it did or didn't happen. You are dul aren't you.
I am not a psychologist/pyschiatrist so wouldn't like to comment on how or what people may remeber given the arrow of time.
How do you know those that didn't hear it were not there? Perhaps you were not there?
I didn't stand next to you (thankfully) in the 90s.
I'm not even going to try and explain the rest of the obvious to you cos I honestly don't think you have the mental capacity to understand it.
There are a number of things that get me excited , goergous women, fine food and wine, good conversation, good ideas, watching my children grow up, the med, and successfully running my own business and buying my hacienda was pretty exciting too. Note your not on that list. I will admit though, You are occasionally entertaining in a way. |
Your example is awful. In your bar scenario my word would be far more valuable as I (and others) clearly heard something and you did not, my complaint would be upheld, especially if others have exactly the same story regardless of those who did not hear the comment.
When the announcer announces the goal - I, like others, often dont hear it. Those that did however are always happy to help on that matter, the fact they heard it and I did not would never lead me to be so naive to think it did not get announced, common sense would lead me to believe I simply did not hear it. Me not hearing it pales into insignificance in terms of evidence when others did hear it.
If you remove that and put it to our actual scenario with thousands of voices shouting different things at once, the people that did not hear specific things (that others clearly did) is even more irrelevant - as it is entirely reasonable that not everybody will hear the same areas of voices, in fact it is something that is almost unavoidable and incredibly probable.
You have not claimed it did or did not happen simply because you cannot. You did not hear anything. I did, so I can.. As can others.
I can claim certain people were not there simply because they said so.
We can agree to disagree regarding your excitment when I post, but your post history and content also disagrees with you. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 14:21]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:10 - Sep 20 with 883 views | costalotta |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:01 - Sep 20 by E20Jack |
Your example is awful. In your bar scenario my word would be far more valuable as I (and others) clearly heard something and you did not, my complaint would be upheld, especially if others have exactly the same story regardless of those who did not hear the comment.
When the announcer announces the goal - I, like others, often dont hear it. Those that did however are always happy to help on that matter, the fact they heard it and I did not would never lead me to be so naive to think it did not get announced, common sense would lead me to believe I simply did not hear it. Me not hearing it pales into insignificance in terms of evidence when others did hear it.
If you remove that and put it to our actual scenario with thousands of voices shouting different things at once, the people that did not hear specific things (that others clearly did) is even more irrelevant - as it is entirely reasonable that not everybody will hear the same areas of voices, in fact it is something that is almost unavoidable and incredibly probable.
You have not claimed it did or did not happen simply because you cannot. You did not hear anything. I did, so I can.. As can others.
I can claim certain people were not there simply because they said so.
We can agree to disagree regarding your excitment when I post, but your post history and content also disagrees with you. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 14:21]
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Spectacularly missed the point of the example. Everything you've ur wrote is nothing more than a hot air.
#menounderstand | | | |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:15 - Sep 20 with 879 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:10 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Spectacularly missed the point of the example. Everything you've ur wrote is nothing more than a hot air.
#menounderstand |
Did not miss the point in the slightest. Disagreeing with it is not missing the point, it is saying that it is a stupid and irrelevant point.
The rest of the post furthers how my view is correct. Which understandably you chose to avoid.
Wise move. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:18 - Sep 20 with 872 views | Darran |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:10 - Sep 20 by costalotta |
Spectacularly missed the point of the example. Everything you've ur wrote is nothing more than a hot air.
#menounderstand |
Ignore him Costa it didn't happen and that's that. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:19 - Sep 20 with 871 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:18 - Sep 20 by Darran |
Ignore him Costa it didn't happen and that's that. |
Yes we all made it up to trick you.
What larks. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:21 - Sep 20 with 867 views | Ebo |
I never heard anyone calling JJ anything but I do recall one odious individual who was constantly on Willy Guerets case. He got a slap off me and someone else though once he started using the 'N' word. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 14:25]
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:24 - Sep 20 with 863 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:21 - Sep 20 by Ebo |
I never heard anyone calling JJ anything but I do recall one odious individual who was constantly on Willy Guerets case. He got a slap off me and someone else though once he started using the 'N' word. [Post edited 20 Sep 2017 14:25]
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I like many others also undoubtedly did not hear the racist abuse toward Willy Gueret either.
but certainly don't doubt what you say.
Vile. | |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:34 - Sep 20 with 849 views | SoberBaker |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 11:57 - Sep 20 by Darran |
Yeah but nobody else has said they heard Jason Price being called a lazy black bastard with sheer regularity. |
I did. One of the group of lads I used to go down with was at it just about every game. Home or away. At first, his obsession with giving Price $hit was funny, then it became tiresome.
I could name him but for obvious reasons I won't.
Oh and the old fella that used to stand by my old man wouldn't shy away from giving some of our 'tanned' players an absolute gobfull either. |  |
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| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:41 - Sep 20 with 835 views | E20Jack |
| Serious question for people that went to the Vetch on 14:34 - Sep 20 by SoberBaker |
I did. One of the group of lads I used to go down with was at it just about every game. Home or away. At first, his obsession with giving Price $hit was funny, then it became tiresome.
I could name him but for obvious reasons I won't.
Oh and the old fella that used to stand by my old man wouldn't shy away from giving some of our 'tanned' players an absolute gobfull either. |
Dont be silly, apparently those that heard such things imagined it. Apparently our fans never racially a use our own, the fact it has come to light that Price and Gueret have openly been is irrelevant. Now where is that big brush and that carpet? | |
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