| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report 10:15 - Nov 4 with 9850 views | BrynCartwright |
We are all doomed with this idiot in charge at the White House.
This is the single greatest thing I have against the orange buffoon.
His disregard for overwhelming scientific evidence and withdrawal from the Paris accord makes him laughable.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41868878
Discuss
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 19:35 - Nov 6 with 1282 views | whoflungdung |
I ll make this a more concise analysis
No need for scientific stats or analyses as evidence is all around us .
It's not a mirage
Trump shames a great nation |  |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 19:50 - Nov 6 with 1264 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 18:55 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001 |
If you now agree it's about money, why did you attempt to portray climate change as being a falsehood, then agreed with Davillin saying that the UN agreed with Trump etc etc?
As for your questions, the US has reduced most in the 5 and 10 year period to 2015 (the U.K. was second for both time periods incidentally). But the US is still by far the biggest CO2 polluter per capita (over 16t per person, compared with 7.7 t in China, 6.9 t in the EU, and 1.9t in India).
Two countries that have increased the most I imagine are China and India due to their increasing industrialisation but they are still dwarfed by the US (incidentally it was only in 2015 that India emitted more than the US in absolute terms, which given the respective sizes of the countries is pretty astonishing).
Third question. No idea. |
Well done 1.5 out of 3 is not bad, the UK is actually well ahead of the US since 2006, 30% reduction against 12% for the USA, but mostly due to outsourcing our production to China of course and the USA is much higher by tonnage.
It is not just that China & India are increasing, it is the rate of increase that is the worry, the increase was 37% for China & 81% for India, but India (2271Mt) is way below both the USA (5350Mt) and China (9123Mt).
The third answer is of course Germany with their wonderful energywende, since 2014 (749Mt) it has actually increased to 761Mt.
As to the first question, because like Trump and Dav I do believe it is a falsehood. As you can see I look at data, when someone makes a statement that I find questionable I check the actual data. Trump recognised that CC is being used as a wealth distribution method and doesn't want any part of it for the US when he knows it will do nothing to prevent CC.
If you do not believe it is a wealth distribution project why do top members of the UN say it is? | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 19:52 - Nov 6 with 1258 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 19:35 - Nov 6 by whoflungdung |
I ll make this a more concise analysis
No need for scientific stats or analyses as evidence is all around us .
It's not a mirage
Trump shames a great nation |
"evidence is all around us"
What evidence?
Please supply some examples. | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 20:28 - Nov 6 with 1237 views | londonlisa2001 |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 19:50 - Nov 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Well done 1.5 out of 3 is not bad, the UK is actually well ahead of the US since 2006, 30% reduction against 12% for the USA, but mostly due to outsourcing our production to China of course and the USA is much higher by tonnage.
It is not just that China & India are increasing, it is the rate of increase that is the worry, the increase was 37% for China & 81% for India, but India (2271Mt) is way below both the USA (5350Mt) and China (9123Mt).
The third answer is of course Germany with their wonderful energywende, since 2014 (749Mt) it has actually increased to 761Mt.
As to the first question, because like Trump and Dav I do believe it is a falsehood. As you can see I look at data, when someone makes a statement that I find questionable I check the actual data. Trump recognised that CC is being used as a wealth distribution method and doesn't want any part of it for the US when he knows it will do nothing to prevent CC.
If you do not believe it is a wealth distribution project why do top members of the UN say it is? |
Sorry, you're correct - I was quoting coal consumption rather than CO2 for reductions and also India now being higher than the US.
And the CO2 emissions for China and India per head are a fraction of the US as I said. (I just checked and those are CO2 figures rather than coal). Germany per head is 8.9t (again, US is over 16t). They have seen an increase, since over that time they shut a nuclear plant and replaced it with a coal and gas plant. They have also had an issue with solar and wind in 2016 due to the weather. They do not have our wonderful advantage of being surrounded by, what Trump would call, 'big sea, huge sea, big waves, the biggest'.
As for the 'climate change being a falsehood' bit and you know because you look at data, do you honestly believe that you look at more data than scientists who specialise in this? And you understand it more? Do you believe the same of Trump? It's nonsense.
You can't have it both ways - you say to follow the money around climate change, and when it's pointed out the money lies in fossil fuels and no environmental controls, you say that's just putting America first. | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:04 - Nov 6 with 1209 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 20:28 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001 |
Sorry, you're correct - I was quoting coal consumption rather than CO2 for reductions and also India now being higher than the US.
And the CO2 emissions for China and India per head are a fraction of the US as I said. (I just checked and those are CO2 figures rather than coal). Germany per head is 8.9t (again, US is over 16t). They have seen an increase, since over that time they shut a nuclear plant and replaced it with a coal and gas plant. They have also had an issue with solar and wind in 2016 due to the weather. They do not have our wonderful advantage of being surrounded by, what Trump would call, 'big sea, huge sea, big waves, the biggest'.
As for the 'climate change being a falsehood' bit and you know because you look at data, do you honestly believe that you look at more data than scientists who specialise in this? And you understand it more? Do you believe the same of Trump? It's nonsense.
You can't have it both ways - you say to follow the money around climate change, and when it's pointed out the money lies in fossil fuels and no environmental controls, you say that's just putting America first. |
OK, you fully believe the Scientist I get that and am a nobody i get that as well, but as well as data the information that I read is not compiled by "nobodies".
But let me ask you this, do you believe that 2015 & 2016 were the hottest years on record? | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:19 - Nov 6 with 1201 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 20:28 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001 |
Sorry, you're correct - I was quoting coal consumption rather than CO2 for reductions and also India now being higher than the US.
And the CO2 emissions for China and India per head are a fraction of the US as I said. (I just checked and those are CO2 figures rather than coal). Germany per head is 8.9t (again, US is over 16t). They have seen an increase, since over that time they shut a nuclear plant and replaced it with a coal and gas plant. They have also had an issue with solar and wind in 2016 due to the weather. They do not have our wonderful advantage of being surrounded by, what Trump would call, 'big sea, huge sea, big waves, the biggest'.
As for the 'climate change being a falsehood' bit and you know because you look at data, do you honestly believe that you look at more data than scientists who specialise in this? And you understand it more? Do you believe the same of Trump? It's nonsense.
You can't have it both ways - you say to follow the money around climate change, and when it's pointed out the money lies in fossil fuels and no environmental controls, you say that's just putting America first. |
What is with the "no environmental controls", when have I ever said no environmental controls.
The problem with the world concentrating so much effort, time and money on Climate means that there are many Environmental Problems that are not being addressed at all or inadequately.
I lived through the London smogs of the 60s and 70s, so I have a great appreciation of correctly applied environmental controls.
Which is one of the reasons I get so angry about burning wood in cities again especially in smoke free zones. | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:20 - Nov 6 with 1200 views | BrynCartwright |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:04 - Nov 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
OK, you fully believe the Scientist I get that and am a nobody i get that as well, but as well as data the information that I read is not compiled by "nobodies".
But let me ask you this, do you believe that 2015 & 2016 were the hottest years on record? |
Hey feller...happy days...
Read this and weep....
Your kids and grand kids and great grand kids and great, great kids are gonna curse you and your opinions.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/2017-hottest-year-on-record-el-nino-no-
Denying this problem will ultimately destroy homo sapiens.
Got any solutions? | |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:48 - Nov 6 with 1189 views | londonlisa2001 |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:04 - Nov 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
OK, you fully believe the Scientist I get that and am a nobody i get that as well, but as well as data the information that I read is not compiled by "nobodies".
But let me ask you this, do you believe that 2015 & 2016 were the hottest years on record? |
I didn't say you were a nobody. I also don't think that. I would quite genuinely never be so appallingly rude and judgemental. In fact, the only person that has been routinely personally criticised for stupidity on this thread (apart from Trump), is me. By both you and Davillin.
But, yes. I do believe scientists. I tend to believe people who are expert in matters that I am not.
I also believe that you have a genuine interest in the topic and have researched the matter quite extensively. However, I also believe that your opinion is, to some extent at least, influenced by your political persuasion. As is Davillin's.
I believe that global warming or climate change is cyclical. The Earth warms and cools. Always has done. But I also believe that we, as a species, are speeding that process up to previously unimaginable levels. And we have to stop. Otherwise it's all over. | | | |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 22:08 - Nov 6 with 1170 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Would you like me to bore you with the details of why that is not true?
Because I can if you like. | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 22:11 - Nov 6 with 1167 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:48 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001 |
I didn't say you were a nobody. I also don't think that. I would quite genuinely never be so appallingly rude and judgemental. In fact, the only person that has been routinely personally criticised for stupidity on this thread (apart from Trump), is me. By both you and Davillin.
But, yes. I do believe scientists. I tend to believe people who are expert in matters that I am not.
I also believe that you have a genuine interest in the topic and have researched the matter quite extensively. However, I also believe that your opinion is, to some extent at least, influenced by your political persuasion. As is Davillin's.
I believe that global warming or climate change is cyclical. The Earth warms and cools. Always has done. But I also believe that we, as a species, are speeding that process up to previously unimaginable levels. And we have to stop. Otherwise it's all over. |
Then why don't you believe the Scientists from 1998 and 1999?
Were they lying, or totally incompetent then or are they exagerating now?
By the most of them are the same Scientists. [Post edited 6 Nov 2017 22:12]
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 23:24 - Nov 6 with 1140 views | Davillin |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:48 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001 |
I didn't say you were a nobody. I also don't think that. I would quite genuinely never be so appallingly rude and judgemental. In fact, the only person that has been routinely personally criticised for stupidity on this thread (apart from Trump), is me. By both you and Davillin.
But, yes. I do believe scientists. I tend to believe people who are expert in matters that I am not.
I also believe that you have a genuine interest in the topic and have researched the matter quite extensively. However, I also believe that your opinion is, to some extent at least, influenced by your political persuasion. As is Davillin's.
I believe that global warming or climate change is cyclical. The Earth warms and cools. Always has done. But I also believe that we, as a species, are speeding that process up to previously unimaginable levels. And we have to stop. Otherwise it's all over. |
"Stupid" and all forms of the word are not in my use-vocabulary.
Frankly, no-one on PlanetSwans has ever been more rude to or about me than you have. I think I'll just ignore you and your posts for a while again, probably until I forget again. |  |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 23:28 - Nov 6 with 1140 views | jack_lord |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 21:04 - Nov 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
OK, you fully believe the Scientist I get that and am a nobody i get that as well, but as well as data the information that I read is not compiled by "nobodies".
But let me ask you this, do you believe that 2015 & 2016 were the hottest years on record? |
The recent “pause” in global warming has ended following three years in which temperature records have been successively broken, the Met Office has said.
The idea of a slowing in the rate of warming has been controversial with some arguing it was little more than a statistical blip.
In a statement on its website, the Met Office said it had established that the world’s climate warmed more slowly between 1999 and 2014 than it had done previously, but the last few years had seen a return to the more rapid rate. |  |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 23:46 - Nov 6 with 1132 views | londonlisa2001 |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 23:24 - Nov 6 by Davillin |
"Stupid" and all forms of the word are not in my use-vocabulary.
Frankly, no-one on PlanetSwans has ever been more rude to or about me than you have. I think I'll just ignore you and your posts for a while again, probably until I forget again. |
"you strongly advise me of the futility of changing her mind, but you continue to try. So I'll return the favour -- don't waste your time trying to change her mind.
As I read her posts, i see in my mind's eye all of the cliché-ridden arguments of the rest of the know-it-all crowd who get everything they "know" from a biased media who get everything they "know" from a biased bunch of slaves to government subsidies and their need to retain their sinecures.
Remember this, Dad. We cannot defeat the cliché; and we cannot defeat the closed mind. Both existing side-by-side in the same brain can withstand the truth as no other can."
I'm sorry, the 'her' you so rudely referred to must have been another then.
I have NEVER been rude to you. Try to find an example. I have criticised and disagreed with your opinions, as have many others. But I have never been anywhere approaching as rude to you as the reverse.
Ignore me, don't ignore me. You mistake me for someone who gives a sh*t. If you remain unable to have discussions with people who don't share your views without flouncing if you are made to look inept, then you are frankly not worth conversing with anyway. Good day to you. | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 01:57 - Nov 7 with 1104 views | LeonWasGod |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 22:41 - Nov 4 by A_Fans_Dad |
Dav, it is very odd how some brains work, that they can believe mutually exclusive things at the same time.
Still as they say "we are not alone", there are many thousands who are fighting the corruption.
I don't know if you are aware of the work by Jennifer Marohasy a Scientist in Australia, she is highlighting the corruption in their BOM.
The latest 2 she has come up with is them limiting low temperatures, by removing them at source and using 1 second readings from AWS electonic Temp Sensors to include high temperature spikes to obtain record breaking highs.
Using 1 second reedings is against the procedures of the WMO of course. [Post edited 4 Nov 2017 22:43]
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Jennifer Marohasy is one of a small group of climate sceptics in Australia linked to the Institute of Public Affairs, an organisation heavily sponsored by the oil industry. She's a highly controversial figure over there, appears to be a bit of a maverick selling her services to industries with an interest in the relaxation of environmental controls. The collaborator in her latest paper fraudulently claim membership of a university well after he had left. She's been heavily criticised (rightly) in the past for very selective sampling of data to prove a point and her general understing of physical climatic processes (she's not a climatologist).
Maybe she's right and everyone else is wrong, but I'd look very carefully at anything coming from her. |  | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 07:43 - Nov 7 with 1073 views | Gowerjack |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 20:30 - Nov 4 by Davillin |
Dad, you strongly advise me of the futility of changing her mind, but you continue to try. So I'll return the favour -- don't waste your time trying to change her mind.
As I read her posts, i see in my mind's eye all of the cliché-ridden arguments of the rest of the know-it-all crowd who get everything they "know" from a biased media who get everything they "know" from a biased bunch of slaves to government subsidies and their need to retain their sinecures.
Remember this, Dad. We cannot defeat the cliché; and we cannot defeat the closed mind. Both existing side-by-side in the same brain can withstand the truth as no other can.
I reverse-advise you on this, too -- find consolation with me in knowing the truth.
And this: There is a small coterie on here who try to win arguments by changing the subject, or by avoiding it, or by mis-quoting you, or re-creating their opponents' arguments as straw men for them, and then attacking that; and they are quite good at it. |
Dav
Your third paragraph illustrates your absolute lack of self awareness. |  |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 07:59 - Nov 7 with 1071 views | E20Jack |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 17:14 - Nov 4 by londonlisa2001 |
Follow the money?
Why are Trump and his merry band of morons are desperate to deny climate change? They don't want the world to move away from its dependence on coal and oil that's why. Because the entire military focus and associated financial strength of the US has been based on control of fossil fuels. After all. When was the last time a country invaded another to control their wind?
As an aside, by 'rackful of imitation scientists', I assume the poster means the 13 US federal agencies that have collaborated on this project. |
It reaches far beyond that.
The meat industry for example is responsible for emitting more greenhouse gasses and deforestation than the global transport industry combined. But the industry is worth billions. Government is run essentially by corporations. The meat and dairy industry is one of the most vile and disgusting things inflicted on this planet for a multitude of reasons. If every human on the planet became more economical with energy, water and recycling for example - it would be a drop in the ocean for what these government backed industries cause. The population are not really the issue, the industries profiting from criminal and ill advised consumption are.
Go vegan folks. [Post edited 7 Nov 2017 8:03]
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 09:39 - Nov 7 with 1042 views | Highjack |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 07:59 - Nov 7 by E20Jack |
It reaches far beyond that.
The meat industry for example is responsible for emitting more greenhouse gasses and deforestation than the global transport industry combined. But the industry is worth billions. Government is run essentially by corporations. The meat and dairy industry is one of the most vile and disgusting things inflicted on this planet for a multitude of reasons. If every human on the planet became more economical with energy, water and recycling for example - it would be a drop in the ocean for what these government backed industries cause. The population are not really the issue, the industries profiting from criminal and ill advised consumption are.
Go vegan folks. [Post edited 7 Nov 2017 8:03]
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F uck that. Meat tastes too good. |  |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 09:58 - Nov 7 with 1034 views | Humpty |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 19:50 - Nov 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Well done 1.5 out of 3 is not bad, the UK is actually well ahead of the US since 2006, 30% reduction against 12% for the USA, but mostly due to outsourcing our production to China of course and the USA is much higher by tonnage.
It is not just that China & India are increasing, it is the rate of increase that is the worry, the increase was 37% for China & 81% for India, but India (2271Mt) is way below both the USA (5350Mt) and China (9123Mt).
The third answer is of course Germany with their wonderful energywende, since 2014 (749Mt) it has actually increased to 761Mt.
As to the first question, because like Trump and Dav I do believe it is a falsehood. As you can see I look at data, when someone makes a statement that I find questionable I check the actual data. Trump recognised that CC is being used as a wealth distribution method and doesn't want any part of it for the US when he knows it will do nothing to prevent CC.
If you do not believe it is a wealth distribution project why do top members of the UN say it is? |
Could you explain the bit about top members of the UN saying it is a wealth distribution project?
That would seem a very silly thing to do. |  | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 10:08 - Nov 7 with 1028 views | trampie |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 23:46 - Nov 6 by londonlisa2001 |
"you strongly advise me of the futility of changing her mind, but you continue to try. So I'll return the favour -- don't waste your time trying to change her mind.
As I read her posts, i see in my mind's eye all of the cliché-ridden arguments of the rest of the know-it-all crowd who get everything they "know" from a biased media who get everything they "know" from a biased bunch of slaves to government subsidies and their need to retain their sinecures.
Remember this, Dad. We cannot defeat the cliché; and we cannot defeat the closed mind. Both existing side-by-side in the same brain can withstand the truth as no other can."
I'm sorry, the 'her' you so rudely referred to must have been another then.
I have NEVER been rude to you. Try to find an example. I have criticised and disagreed with your opinions, as have many others. But I have never been anywhere approaching as rude to you as the reverse.
Ignore me, don't ignore me. You mistake me for someone who gives a sh*t. If you remain unable to have discussions with people who don't share your views without flouncing if you are made to look inept, then you are frankly not worth conversing with anyway. Good day to you. |
That is very true Lisa, Dav is unable to have a discussion with people who don't share his views without him flouncing. |  |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 10:17 - Nov 7 with 1024 views | Highjack |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 22:11 - Nov 6 by A_Fans_Dad |
Then why don't you believe the Scientists from 1998 and 1999?
Were they lying, or totally incompetent then or are they exagerating now?
By the most of them are the same Scientists. [Post edited 6 Nov 2017 22:12]
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Their data would have been a lot more limited back then, now we have better connectivity, more advanced satellites, more weather stations so nearly every part of the globe can be measured every second of every day.
It is a relatively new science. We've only been able to measure the global temperature accurately for a few short years. The consensus is that the average temperature has been rising since the industrial revolution and the population boom that came later, but how do they know accurately what the average temperature of the earth was in the 1700's?
There will certainly be records of weather in Britain, Europe etc, but how do you work out the global average when most of the worlds temperatures wouldn't have been recorded accurately?
Is it safe science to directly compare the extensive data we have today to the less comprehensive limited information to what we had before the industrial revolution? | |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 10:24 - Nov 7 with 1018 views | Humpty |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 10:17 - Nov 7 by Highjack |
Their data would have been a lot more limited back then, now we have better connectivity, more advanced satellites, more weather stations so nearly every part of the globe can be measured every second of every day.
It is a relatively new science. We've only been able to measure the global temperature accurately for a few short years. The consensus is that the average temperature has been rising since the industrial revolution and the population boom that came later, but how do they know accurately what the average temperature of the earth was in the 1700's?
There will certainly be records of weather in Britain, Europe etc, but how do you work out the global average when most of the worlds temperatures wouldn't have been recorded accurately?
Is it safe science to directly compare the extensive data we have today to the less comprehensive limited information to what we had before the industrial revolution? |
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/mar/07/past-climate-temperature-pro | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 11:35 - Nov 7 with 991 views | Highjack |
"Indirect temperature measurements and anecdotal evidence from diarists" can not be anywhere near as accurate as the data we have now.
I'm not saying it's not happening at all, it almost certainly is, and I have no doubt that human activity is making it worse. But the work that has been done so far has been based on a very tiny sample of time, and there is a giant black hole of data behind it that we can't access so it should be treated with caution scientifically speaking. | |
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| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 12:06 - Nov 7 with 979 views | londonlisa2001 |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 10:08 - Nov 7 by trampie |
That is very true Lisa, Dav is unable to have a discussion with people who don't share his views without him flouncing. |
In fairness Tramp, we have argued on many, many occasions, and one of the things you never ever do is flounce. You may be the least flouncy person on this site. | | | |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 12:08 - Nov 7 with 978 views | londonlisa2001 |
| White House downplaying US manmade climate change report on 07:59 - Nov 7 by E20Jack |
It reaches far beyond that.
The meat industry for example is responsible for emitting more greenhouse gasses and deforestation than the global transport industry combined. But the industry is worth billions. Government is run essentially by corporations. The meat and dairy industry is one of the most vile and disgusting things inflicted on this planet for a multitude of reasons. If every human on the planet became more economical with energy, water and recycling for example - it would be a drop in the ocean for what these government backed industries cause. The population are not really the issue, the industries profiting from criminal and ill advised consumption are.
Go vegan folks. [Post edited 7 Nov 2017 8:03]
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I know. I was going to mention the beef industry when deforestation came up, but I was losing the will to live! | | | |
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