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The Countdown begins. 23:28 - Nov 10 with 402078 viewspikeypaul



https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190329T23&p0=1336&msg=Democr

1:19 pm today was the exact mid point from when the result that the Great British public had decided to leave the EU and the time 11pm March 29th 2019 that Democracy will be delivered.

Happy days.
[Post edited 25 Jun 17:01]

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Poll: Next major war involving UK against a super power ?

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The Countdown begins. on 03:47 - Nov 26 with 553 viewsmajorraglan

I believe a lot of the people who voted for Brexit did so primarily because they had had enough of immigration, the images of the jungle, refugees/asylum seekers, the arrival of migrant workers from Eastern Europe, terrorism and extremism, articles in the press, stories of sexual abuse, pressure on housing and costs rising and information in the press. In general people were cheesed off with their lot after reading about the above and also the impact of austerity, and thought it was a good opportunity to give the politicians something to think about. Cameron et al misjudged the mood of the people and the rest is history.

The people have been lied to repeatedly by both sides and some of our politicians have been very nieve. There’s a lot being said about Teresa May’s deal which is unpopular with the majority politicians for different reasons, I do though think a lot of the politicians thought it would be easy to strike a deal when it clearly wasn’t. May’s deal has a lot of faults, but it does deliver what a large number of people want in that it will enable manufactures to access the single market whilst simultaneously limiting immigration. I cant see the Labour party forcing a General Election nor can I see the Tories “committing political suicide” with some kind of large rebellion which opens the door to Corbyn. As unpalatable as it may seem to some I think the current deal may go through if it becomes a straight choice between this and no deal.
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The Countdown begins. on 07:53 - Nov 26 with 522 viewsKilkennyjack

The Countdown begins. on 03:47 - Nov 26 by majorraglan

I believe a lot of the people who voted for Brexit did so primarily because they had had enough of immigration, the images of the jungle, refugees/asylum seekers, the arrival of migrant workers from Eastern Europe, terrorism and extremism, articles in the press, stories of sexual abuse, pressure on housing and costs rising and information in the press. In general people were cheesed off with their lot after reading about the above and also the impact of austerity, and thought it was a good opportunity to give the politicians something to think about. Cameron et al misjudged the mood of the people and the rest is history.

The people have been lied to repeatedly by both sides and some of our politicians have been very nieve. There’s a lot being said about Teresa May’s deal which is unpopular with the majority politicians for different reasons, I do though think a lot of the politicians thought it would be easy to strike a deal when it clearly wasn’t. May’s deal has a lot of faults, but it does deliver what a large number of people want in that it will enable manufactures to access the single market whilst simultaneously limiting immigration. I cant see the Labour party forcing a General Election nor can I see the Tories “committing political suicide” with some kind of large rebellion which opens the door to Corbyn. As unpalatable as it may seem to some I think the current deal may go through if it becomes a straight choice between this and no deal.


It has 2 chances of going through.
No chance and a slim chance - and slim just left town ...

Only the Leave side have been found guilty of criminal activity.

May will fall soon and then what ?
EU saying no other deal.

So its crash out, or remain - and time is ticking.

Get Wales out of here, smash this Tory brexit.

‘Beware of the risen people’ ........🍀🇮🇪 💚 YesCymru 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

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The Countdown begins. on 08:37 - Nov 26 with 512 viewspikeypaul

123 AFLI

SIUYRL

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Poll: Next major war involving UK against a super power ?

-1
The Countdown begins. on 09:02 - Nov 26 with 493 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 07:53 - Nov 26 by Kilkennyjack

It has 2 chances of going through.
No chance and a slim chance - and slim just left town ...

Only the Leave side have been found guilty of criminal activity.

May will fall soon and then what ?
EU saying no other deal.

So its crash out, or remain - and time is ticking.

Get Wales out of here, smash this Tory brexit.


Only leve broke the rules eh, really?

https://www.ft.com/content/2f91721d-9512-3c2a-9e0f-4453897183c8

Besides, until they are charged by the police/CPS and taken to court they are still only the accused and they are challenging the electoral commission.

Politicians still aren't being honest, on either side. I don't think the deal will get through either, there's too much opposition on all sides. I would have said vote it through if we could have changed the exit clause but (and specially after what Macron said yesterday) I wouldn't now. We could be legally tied in forever.

I think the EU have been very stupid indidting on that clause because if we crash out it will be bad for everybody. There was no common sense or pragmatism involved, just self serving ideology. The UK has made many concessions and the EU didn't have to force this clause in, unless they really wanted a no deal all along.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 09:14 - Nov 26 with 489 viewskarnataka

The Countdown begins. on 17:17 - Nov 25 by longlostjack

I dislike Blair with a passion but what he argued this morning made logical sense. The Brexiteers see the deal as a sell out and not what they voted for. The Remainers, myself included, see it as a deal that is worse than what we have now. There has to be a second (binding) referendum now that we have the facts.


No referendum can be binding. It is a constitutional principle that a referendum can only be advisory and has been since the first referendum in 1975. The result can only become binding if ratified by an Act of Parliament. The result of the 2016 referendum was only advisory however, in 2017 an Act of Parliament was passed that we would leave the EU. As for another referendum, we can't just have one because it can only take place as the result of another Act of Parliament following a Parliamentary vote on whether or not to have one.
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The Countdown begins. on 09:21 - Nov 26 with 487 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 17:24 - Nov 25 by Batterseajack

Do you even bother to check anything before typing?

NATO was setup to counter the Russian threat. EU is setup so that nations which have historically been warring with each other have closer economic ties so that was becomes unthinkable and non-profitable


I am very well aware of what NATO is and I shall ask, do you really think an organisation set up as a trading bloc (allegedly) has kept the peace or is it possible a military organisation that has 29 members (including previous aggressors Italy and Germany) has kept the peace?

Or do you think that if a threat of war existed the aggressor was more likely to listen to the EU or to NATO?
Does the EU stop Russia or is it NATO?

NATO wasn't just set up to counter the USSR but also because of the other communist threats across Europe.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 10:12 - Nov 26 with 459 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 09:21 - Nov 26 by Catullus

I am very well aware of what NATO is and I shall ask, do you really think an organisation set up as a trading bloc (allegedly) has kept the peace or is it possible a military organisation that has 29 members (including previous aggressors Italy and Germany) has kept the peace?

Or do you think that if a threat of war existed the aggressor was more likely to listen to the EU or to NATO?
Does the EU stop Russia or is it NATO?

NATO wasn't just set up to counter the USSR but also because of the other communist threats across Europe.


I was responding to your "indeed is is" comment about Cypress being a member of the EU, yet it didn't stop it being invaded by Turkey. Turkish invasion. Cypress joined the EU in 2004, Turkey invaded it in 1974!

There have been many "I'll join in if you get invaded pacts" in the past, and it has proven to not stop wars. Look at WW1, WW2 for example. And i agree with you, NATO is setup to stop communist expansion. But it doesn;t deal with threats from countries within western Europe.

The EU was specifically setup with the aim of ending frequent wars in western Europe and to allow countries to better cooperate with each other so that they no longer have to fight for territories and natural resources. It takes away the reason to fight each other.

Your question:
Or do you think that if a threat of war existed the aggressor was more likely to listen to the EU or to NATO?
Depends who the aggressor is. If the aggressor is from within the EU, they would take a massive economic hit which would put them off. Fact remains, there hasn't been an aggressor in western Europe since the formation of the EU.
If the aggressor is Russia, its a NATO issue and brings the Americans to the party. Hasn't stopped Russia invading Ukraine or Georgia though.
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The Countdown begins. on 10:55 - Nov 26 with 433 viewsHighjack

War in Western Europe stopped because the 2 wars of the early to mid 19th century were so horrific, so devastating and so painful that there’s been absolutely zero desire to go through all that again.

To attribute peace in Europe to the E.U. is moronic at best, but that pretty much sums up the arguments of a lot of remainers.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: After dumping Leanne, who is Trampie’s latest crush?

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The Countdown begins. on 11:00 - Nov 26 with 428 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 10:55 - Nov 26 by Highjack

War in Western Europe stopped because the 2 wars of the early to mid 19th century were so horrific, so devastating and so painful that there’s been absolutely zero desire to go through all that again.

To attribute peace in Europe to the E.U. is moronic at best, but that pretty much sums up the arguments of a lot of remainers.


WW1 was horrific, painful and devastating, but it didn't stop WW2.
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The Countdown begins. on 11:49 - Nov 26 with 401 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 11:00 - Nov 26 by Batterseajack

WW1 was horrific, painful and devastating, but it didn't stop WW2.


If only Germany had entered into a trade agreement with Poland. Lebensraum and the final solution might have been put on the back burner if they could export Volkswagens tariff free.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: After dumping Leanne, who is Trampie’s latest crush?

-1
The Countdown begins. on 11:56 - Nov 26 with 395 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 03:47 - Nov 26 by majorraglan

I believe a lot of the people who voted for Brexit did so primarily because they had had enough of immigration, the images of the jungle, refugees/asylum seekers, the arrival of migrant workers from Eastern Europe, terrorism and extremism, articles in the press, stories of sexual abuse, pressure on housing and costs rising and information in the press. In general people were cheesed off with their lot after reading about the above and also the impact of austerity, and thought it was a good opportunity to give the politicians something to think about. Cameron et al misjudged the mood of the people and the rest is history.

The people have been lied to repeatedly by both sides and some of our politicians have been very nieve. There’s a lot being said about Teresa May’s deal which is unpopular with the majority politicians for different reasons, I do though think a lot of the politicians thought it would be easy to strike a deal when it clearly wasn’t. May’s deal has a lot of faults, but it does deliver what a large number of people want in that it will enable manufactures to access the single market whilst simultaneously limiting immigration. I cant see the Labour party forcing a General Election nor can I see the Tories “committing political suicide” with some kind of large rebellion which opens the door to Corbyn. As unpalatable as it may seem to some I think the current deal may go through if it becomes a straight choice between this and no deal.


As Barnsley Brexit man wisely said the day after the referendum,

"The movement of people in Europe, fair enough"

Yet May sees ending Freedom of Movement for EU citizens as the one big plus of Brexit.

Someone on this thread stated that the ending of illegal immigration was a reason for voting leave, despite having the stupidity of that argument pointed out to them, I'm still not sure they get it.

Just don't call leave voters, stupid!


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The Countdown begins. on 12:15 - Nov 26 with 384 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 11:49 - Nov 26 by Highjack

If only Germany had entered into a trade agreement with Poland. Lebensraum and the final solution might have been put on the back burner if they could export Volkswagens tariff free.


If only the victors of WW1 didn't continue the blockade and economic hardship on Germany after WW1 which meant starving German citizens, then there wouldn't have been the rise in hard right in Germany which led to the justification of Lebensraum and the final solution.
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The Countdown begins. on 12:46 - Nov 26 with 362 viewskarnataka

The Countdown begins. on 10:55 - Nov 26 by Highjack

War in Western Europe stopped because the 2 wars of the early to mid 19th century were so horrific, so devastating and so painful that there’s been absolutely zero desire to go through all that again.

To attribute peace in Europe to the E.U. is moronic at best, but that pretty much sums up the arguments of a lot of remainers.


I had to read that a couple of times before I could make sense of it but eventually figured out that you meant "early to mid 20th century" yes?

Maybe the intention of the formation of the EU was not to bring peace but it is an historical fact that many of the EU members such as the English, Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, Austrians, Hungarians, etc have previously spent centuries battering each other in various combinations but no longer do.
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The Countdown begins. on 13:00 - Nov 26 with 347 viewsJango

The Countdown begins. on 12:46 - Nov 26 by karnataka

I had to read that a couple of times before I could make sense of it but eventually figured out that you meant "early to mid 20th century" yes?

Maybe the intention of the formation of the EU was not to bring peace but it is an historical fact that many of the EU members such as the English, Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, Austrians, Hungarians, etc have previously spent centuries battering each other in various combinations but no longer do.


You could say the same about many other countries that are not in the EU
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The Countdown begins. on 13:01 - Nov 26 with 343 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 12:46 - Nov 26 by karnataka

I had to read that a couple of times before I could make sense of it but eventually figured out that you meant "early to mid 20th century" yes?

Maybe the intention of the formation of the EU was not to bring peace but it is an historical fact that many of the EU members such as the English, Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, Austrians, Hungarians, etc have previously spent centuries battering each other in various combinations but no longer do.


The intention was very much to bring peace.

One of the stated aims of the Schuman declaration was to make war between member states impossible.

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The Countdown begins. on 13:09 - Nov 26 with 332 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 12:46 - Nov 26 by karnataka

I had to read that a couple of times before I could make sense of it but eventually figured out that you meant "early to mid 20th century" yes?

Maybe the intention of the formation of the EU was not to bring peace but it is an historical fact that many of the EU members such as the English, Germans, French, Italians, Spanish, Austrians, Hungarians, etc have previously spent centuries battering each other in various combinations but no longer do.


Yes, bit of a typo. I was only 100 years out, but the Napoleonic wars were a bitch too.
[Post edited 26 Nov 13:10]

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: After dumping Leanne, who is Trampie’s latest crush?

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The Countdown begins. on 13:19 - Nov 26 with 322 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 13:09 - Nov 26 by Highjack

Yes, bit of a typo. I was only 100 years out, but the Napoleonic wars were a bitch too.
[Post edited 26 Nov 13:10]


Waterloo, where the Prussians came to our rescue.

We were led to believe the German car industry was going to do the same over the brexit talks.

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The Countdown begins. on 13:23 - Nov 26 with 311 viewskarnataka

The Countdown begins. on 13:01 - Nov 26 by sherpajacob

The intention was very much to bring peace.

One of the stated aims of the Schuman declaration was to make war between member states impossible.


Sorry, yes, I phrased my reply to Highjack very poorly. I am aware of the anti-war aims relating to the formation of the ECSC in 1950 which led to various European Communities in different guises until it became formally known as the EU in 1993
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The Countdown begins. on 13:25 - Nov 26 with 310 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 12:15 - Nov 26 by Batterseajack

If only the victors of WW1 didn't continue the blockade and economic hardship on Germany after WW1 which meant starving German citizens, then there wouldn't have been the rise in hard right in Germany which led to the justification of Lebensraum and the final solution.


Do you think a free trading area run by a committee in Brussels would have reversed the heartache of Versailles?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: After dumping Leanne, who is Trampie’s latest crush?

0
The Countdown begins. on 13:27 - Nov 26 with 308 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 13:00 - Nov 26 by Jango

You could say the same about many other countries that are not in the EU


Yes what he is referring to is just pure coincidence.

We haven’t had a war in Western Europe since Harry Corbett started presenting the Sooty show, so therefore Sooty is the cause of peace in Europe.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: After dumping Leanne, who is Trampie’s latest crush?

0
The Countdown begins. on 13:46 - Nov 26 with 298 viewsLeonWasGod

The Countdown begins. on 13:25 - Nov 26 by Highjack

Do you think a free trading area run by a committee in Brussels would have reversed the heartache of Versailles?


Safe to say, if we were all loyal EU citizens like this one there wouldn't be any fighting. Well, maybe some handbags and eyeball scratching at Accessorize's new year sale.

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The Countdown begins. on 13:48 - Nov 26 with 294 viewskarnataka

The Countdown begins. on 13:00 - Nov 26 by Jango

You could say the same about many other countries that are not in the EU


Enlighten me.
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The Countdown begins. on 13:56 - Nov 26 with 281 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 13:48 - Nov 26 by karnataka

Enlighten me.


Japan and Korea have been knocking seven shades of shyt into each other for millennia. But there’s been peace since 1953. Perhaps the E.U. is responsible for this as well?

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: After dumping Leanne, who is Trampie’s latest crush?

0
The Countdown begins. on 15:53 - Nov 26 with 236 viewsCatullus

The Countdown begins. on 10:12 - Nov 26 by Batterseajack

I was responding to your "indeed is is" comment about Cypress being a member of the EU, yet it didn't stop it being invaded by Turkey. Turkish invasion. Cypress joined the EU in 2004, Turkey invaded it in 1974!

There have been many "I'll join in if you get invaded pacts" in the past, and it has proven to not stop wars. Look at WW1, WW2 for example. And i agree with you, NATO is setup to stop communist expansion. But it doesn;t deal with threats from countries within western Europe.

The EU was specifically setup with the aim of ending frequent wars in western Europe and to allow countries to better cooperate with each other so that they no longer have to fight for territories and natural resources. It takes away the reason to fight each other.

Your question:
Or do you think that if a threat of war existed the aggressor was more likely to listen to the EU or to NATO?
Depends who the aggressor is. If the aggressor is from within the EU, they would take a massive economic hit which would put them off. Fact remains, there hasn't been an aggressor in western Europe since the formation of the EU.
If the aggressor is Russia, its a NATO issue and brings the Americans to the party. Hasn't stopped Russia invading Ukraine or Georgia though.


Cyprus is a member of the EU. It wasn't me who said anything about any invasion.

The EU was allegedly set up as a trading bloc, unless you are agreeing that everybody was lied to way back then?

Russia has had heavy sanctions imposed for it's transgressions but Putin doesn't cave so easily and as always in these things it's the ordinary people who pay the price of these sanctions.
It's like austerity here, the rich didn't suffer but the poor certainly did. To the people in charge politics is just a game and the ordinary people don't really count.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
Blog: In, Out, in, out........

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The Countdown begins. on 16:26 - Nov 26 with 217 viewskarnataka

The Countdown begins. on 13:56 - Nov 26 by Highjack

Japan and Korea have been knocking seven shades of shyt into each other for millennia. But there’s been peace since 1953. Perhaps the E.U. is responsible for this as well?


Sorry, I thought we were discussing European countries, I know I was. I think the Japanese have more reason than any other nationality on the planet to make sure they never get involved in another war.
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