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Remoaner,losers . 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1470186 viewspikeypaul

OUT AND FECKING LOVING IT suck it up remoaners



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 30 Jun 10:44]

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The wait was well worth it. on 16:58 - Jun 15 with 676 viewsCatullus

The wait was well worth it. on 14:37 - Jun 15 by Kilkennyjack

I call bollox on this.

PM Blair said that in his 9 years as PM ,there was not one decision that the EU ‘made’ his take.

EU was good thing and UK will rejoin within a decade. Absolutely nailed on.
Although we may have a free Scotland and a free Ireland by then of course.


So the red Tory Tony Bliar is suddenly a beacon of truth?

Short memories when it suits,

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/09/ten-things-chilcot-reveals-about

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The wait was well worth it. on 17:00 - Jun 15 with 675 viewsJango

The wait was well worth it. on 16:39 - Jun 15 by vetchonian

thats one reason and I understand where you are coming from...but is that all?

Don't you think the big companies will find a way around this anyway?


Yeh that was my main reason for voting leave. I don’t for one minute think it will be the disaster some on the remain side will have us believe and I don’t think it will the sunlit uplands that some on the leave side think it will be. I think it will be somewhere in the middle.
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The wait was well worth it. on 18:36 - Jun 15 with 630 viewsmajorraglan

The wait was well worth it. on 16:39 - Jun 15 by vetchonian

thats one reason and I understand where you are coming from...but is that all?

Don't you think the big companies will find a way around this anyway?


You have a point. Freedom of movement is a major issue for lots of people and the prospect of it being curtailed was a major attraction for lots of voters, but it remains to be seen what will happen. As has been highlighted, the NHS relies heavily on overseas staff and we are now in a position where we are gong outside the EU to bring in seasonal workers from places like the Ukraine to make up the shortfall. Our tourism and care home industries rely on EU citizens ( primarily from Eastern Europe).
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The wait was well worth it. on 19:21 - Jun 15 with 610 viewsLeonWasGod

The wait was well worth it. on 10:18 - Jun 15 by Catullus

Those subsidies are/were wrong though and they came from the EU, the EU was/is paying farmers not to grow food, why? Was it to keep prices up by any chance?
The thing about brexit is, in the UK us UK voters can force change. We aren't big enough and strong enout to force the Eu to change, I think Cameron proved that. France and Germany hold the power there.
Maybe now we've had the clown prince for PM more people will sit up and take notice, if we get the governments we deserve lets make ourselves deserving of something better.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/brexit-leaving-eu-farming-


France and Germany hold the power now, but we genuinely made that a big three.

Who's going to sit up and take notice? People have been pointing out what he's like for years, but others couldn't see through his bull. Many still can't. This "clown prince" is synonymous with Brexit. He defines the stupidity of the whole episode. He wouldn't be in the position he's in without it. Coronavirus hasn't revealed anything new about his or his cabinet's incompetence.

If people think Johnson is making a mess of this, they'd do well to reevaluate their thinking about other things he's been involved in.
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The wait was well worth it. on 19:45 - Jun 15 with 600 viewsCatullus

The wait was well worth it. on 19:21 - Jun 15 by LeonWasGod

France and Germany hold the power now, but we genuinely made that a big three.

Who's going to sit up and take notice? People have been pointing out what he's like for years, but others couldn't see through his bull. Many still can't. This "clown prince" is synonymous with Brexit. He defines the stupidity of the whole episode. He wouldn't be in the position he's in without it. Coronavirus hasn't revealed anything new about his or his cabinet's incompetence.

If people think Johnson is making a mess of this, they'd do well to reevaluate their thinking about other things he's been involved in.


Sometimes, Leon, just sometimes you have to hit absolutely rock bottom before you can start to climb back up.

When you say we were part of the big three, ok I won't argue but, when decisions were being made, if France and Germany wanted it we couldn't stop them. We had very little real influence. Germany has been very busy making sure she is protected. Macron too sided with Merkel at almost every turn because he is a federalist, he wants the EU to take more powers away from member states,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/emmanuel-macron-sets-out-10-year-v

Remember cameron going to the Eu with a wishlist, he got next to nothing but came back saying he'd got what he wanted. It was that kind of BS that drove people toards leave.

Back to today, well this last week anyway. Apparently Barnier has been telling the EU council they have to be willing to compromise but first to say no was Macron, he won't shift unless the UK gives unfettered access to UK fishing grounds. They all want different things, they all expect us to cave so they can protect their own countries. Portugal has been having a meltdon at the prospect of losing UK tourists. Spain wants us to habe over Gibraltar and calls us colonialist but will they hand their overseas territories back?

The EU isn't united on one subject besides the UK has to give up everything if we want a trade deal.
Germany has revolted against the EU over the ECB, energy policy and state aid for Lufthansa.

They are trying to protect themselves individually not negotiate a fair deal for everyone.

Still, we'll see what happens.
.

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The wait was well worth it. on 08:38 - Jun 16 with 548 viewsvetchonian

The wait was well worth it. on 17:00 - Jun 15 by Jango

Yeh that was my main reason for voting leave. I don’t for one minute think it will be the disaster some on the remain side will have us believe and I don’t think it will the sunlit uplands that some on the leave side think it will be. I think it will be somewhere in the middle.


I wish I shared your optimism on this but Im not so sure it will work out well for us. I certainly dont trust our current government and worry about the erosion of things such as worker rights,working hours directive,etc.
I am also sure many jobs will be lost as companies move to the EU to avoid tariffs etc....already seeing it with my employer...

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The wait was well worth it. on 09:12 - Jun 16 with 533 viewsCatullus

The wait was well worth it. on 08:38 - Jun 16 by vetchonian

I wish I shared your optimism on this but Im not so sure it will work out well for us. I certainly dont trust our current government and worry about the erosion of things such as worker rights,working hours directive,etc.
I am also sure many jobs will be lost as companies move to the EU to avoid tariffs etc....already seeing it with my employer...


It mut be good news then that the EU has changed tack a bit and apparently now wants accelerated talks to find a deal.
It would crucify many on here if Bojo turned out to be right! There's always a first time fo everything.

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The wait was well worth it. on 10:56 - Jun 16 with 519 viewssherpajacob

I think one of 2 things will happen.

1) We will leave without a deal, or

2) Johnson will cave in to the EU, as he did over the WA and Northern Ireland. We will get BINO, effectively EFTA/EEA quasi membership, and in SM/CU Free trade area subject to EU rules. Gove will spin it as we have left EU political structure and can diverge from their rules whenever we want because we are sovereign (always have been). Faragists will be incandescent, but the reply to them will be. You know what you voted for - "to leave the EU" and we've done that"

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The wait was well worth it. on 11:04 - Jun 16 with 513 viewschad

The wait was well worth it. on 19:21 - Jun 15 by LeonWasGod

France and Germany hold the power now, but we genuinely made that a big three.

Who's going to sit up and take notice? People have been pointing out what he's like for years, but others couldn't see through his bull. Many still can't. This "clown prince" is synonymous with Brexit. He defines the stupidity of the whole episode. He wouldn't be in the position he's in without it. Coronavirus hasn't revealed anything new about his or his cabinet's incompetence.

If people think Johnson is making a mess of this, they'd do well to reevaluate their thinking about other things he's been involved in.


I am not sure how to put this because it has been pointed out again and again and I am unsure if people don’t want to see it, or just cannot.

Perhaps read your own post back and imagine if it were reversed, to be dismissive of the stupidity of remain, and indicating you had been taken in by slimy politicians who had lots to gain from remaining. (Say Labour’s previous smart lying barrister Blair for e.g. who loves the EU and milks it, or the current one who sneakily tried to force remain on the country, and his almost unanimously strongly pro remain shadow cabinet, and its large cluster of legal elite, who love people movement as it generally ups their vote share and dilutes nationalism). Would you then think your post a fair and balanced assessment? Or would you think it insulting, ignorant and arrogant.


Let me put it this way. If you pick up a hammer to crack a nut, and it is the only hammer you have to do the job, does it mean you are under its thrall?
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The wait was well worth it. on 11:10 - Jun 16 with 508 viewswaynekerr55

The wait was well worth it. on 11:04 - Jun 16 by chad

I am not sure how to put this because it has been pointed out again and again and I am unsure if people don’t want to see it, or just cannot.

Perhaps read your own post back and imagine if it were reversed, to be dismissive of the stupidity of remain, and indicating you had been taken in by slimy politicians who had lots to gain from remaining. (Say Labour’s previous smart lying barrister Blair for e.g. who loves the EU and milks it, or the current one who sneakily tried to force remain on the country, and his almost unanimously strongly pro remain shadow cabinet, and its large cluster of legal elite, who love people movement as it generally ups their vote share and dilutes nationalism). Would you then think your post a fair and balanced assessment? Or would you think it insulting, ignorant and arrogant.


Let me put it this way. If you pick up a hammer to crack a nut, and it is the only hammer you have to do the job, does it mean you are under its thrall?


"Legal elite"

As opposed to inherited wealth, tax dodging elite that appear to be unable to do any wrong?

FWIW you do raise some pertinent points in there.

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The wait was well worth it. on 11:20 - Jun 16 with 501 viewschad

The wait was well worth it. on 11:10 - Jun 16 by waynekerr55

"Legal elite"

As opposed to inherited wealth, tax dodging elite that appear to be unable to do any wrong?

FWIW you do raise some pertinent points in there.


Who said they could do no wrong, remember we are not in the thrall of the hammer, it is just a tool to crack the nut. What we do with the nut as time goes by is up to us.

But it may well be in our Long term interests to free the nut from its shell.
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The wait was well worth it. on 11:25 - Jun 16 with 495 viewsvetchonian

The wait was well worth it. on 11:04 - Jun 16 by chad

I am not sure how to put this because it has been pointed out again and again and I am unsure if people don’t want to see it, or just cannot.

Perhaps read your own post back and imagine if it were reversed, to be dismissive of the stupidity of remain, and indicating you had been taken in by slimy politicians who had lots to gain from remaining. (Say Labour’s previous smart lying barrister Blair for e.g. who loves the EU and milks it, or the current one who sneakily tried to force remain on the country, and his almost unanimously strongly pro remain shadow cabinet, and its large cluster of legal elite, who love people movement as it generally ups their vote share and dilutes nationalism). Would you then think your post a fair and balanced assessment? Or would you think it insulting, ignorant and arrogant.


Let me put it this way. If you pick up a hammer to crack a nut, and it is the only hammer you have to do the job, does it mean you are under its thrall?


Forgetting the politicians for one minute....I have repeatedly asked for someone to explain to me the benefits of Brexit?

From where I sit I see very few but I am willing to be persauded. Personally and I do respect others views especially when there is a reasoned arguement I see very few benefits compared with the negatives.

Wales especially has done well form the memebership in the form of financial aid with many infrastructure improvements funded by EU monies. Many companies set up here, or have remained as a result of WDA/WAG grants funded again by EU monies.
Do you believe that the Westminster government will be as free with the monies we will no longer pay in as I am sure all Brexiteers will remind us ...do you think we will still see our fair share in Wales?
Our economy has relied on the use of imprted labour as has been seen during this recent pandemic...no one in the UK to harvest pick vegetables etc.. but then our farming industry will soon dissapear when this government cave in further to the US and fodd standards drop allowing in cheap US imports.
Travel in Europe has been seamless...easy to hop on a plane /train car and travel with no red tape I am sure many who voted to leave will enjoy the long queues at passport desks on thir next holidays!!!!
I still wait to hear an arguement that will convince me leaving the EU is advantagous....still to hear any data backed reasoning.
That said democracy won and I am having to accept and live with the decsion. My reasons for wanting to remain, remain and I will always "argue" those with facts and data.

We now need to wait and see whether this decision was the right one for us this will take time and is will also have been affected by the pandemic.
For me already on the face of things I do not trust this current Governement already they have gone back on their word re food standards just like that promise on the bus re the NHS....."take back control "that is a joke Boris is not in control others are pulling his strings...he hasnt been able to take control in this pandemic and it appears they are beginning to move away from being led by the science

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The wait was well worth it. on 11:27 - Jun 16 with 492 viewswaynekerr55

The wait was well worth it. on 11:20 - Jun 16 by chad

Who said they could do no wrong, remember we are not in the thrall of the hammer, it is just a tool to crack the nut. What we do with the nut as time goes by is up to us.

But it may well be in our Long term interests to free the nut from its shell.


Well it seems strange that you'll nail your colours to the mast when they're intent on burning the country down but hey ho...

This is the problem with Brexit - the majority of arguments are hypothetical, you are indeed right that it may be better, but then again it may not be.

Anyway that's been and gone!

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The wait was well worth it. on 12:04 - Jun 16 with 468 viewsHighjack

The wait was well worth it. on 11:25 - Jun 16 by vetchonian

Forgetting the politicians for one minute....I have repeatedly asked for someone to explain to me the benefits of Brexit?

From where I sit I see very few but I am willing to be persauded. Personally and I do respect others views especially when there is a reasoned arguement I see very few benefits compared with the negatives.

Wales especially has done well form the memebership in the form of financial aid with many infrastructure improvements funded by EU monies. Many companies set up here, or have remained as a result of WDA/WAG grants funded again by EU monies.
Do you believe that the Westminster government will be as free with the monies we will no longer pay in as I am sure all Brexiteers will remind us ...do you think we will still see our fair share in Wales?
Our economy has relied on the use of imprted labour as has been seen during this recent pandemic...no one in the UK to harvest pick vegetables etc.. but then our farming industry will soon dissapear when this government cave in further to the US and fodd standards drop allowing in cheap US imports.
Travel in Europe has been seamless...easy to hop on a plane /train car and travel with no red tape I am sure many who voted to leave will enjoy the long queues at passport desks on thir next holidays!!!!
I still wait to hear an arguement that will convince me leaving the EU is advantagous....still to hear any data backed reasoning.
That said democracy won and I am having to accept and live with the decsion. My reasons for wanting to remain, remain and I will always "argue" those with facts and data.

We now need to wait and see whether this decision was the right one for us this will take time and is will also have been affected by the pandemic.
For me already on the face of things I do not trust this current Governement already they have gone back on their word re food standards just like that promise on the bus re the NHS....."take back control "that is a joke Boris is not in control others are pulling his strings...he hasnt been able to take control in this pandemic and it appears they are beginning to move away from being led by the science


Again, we don’t need Westminster to replace the EU money (which was our money in the first place). Just adding 1p to income tax would more than cover it. The amount we’ve ‘received’ has been grossly overstated. But the very gorgeous Mark Drakeford has said he won’t use the powers the welsh assembly has fought for. He’d rather go with a begging bowl to Westminster or Brussels and say “please sir, can I have some more?”

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The wait was well worth it. on 12:16 - Jun 16 with 462 viewschad

The wait was well worth it. on 11:27 - Jun 16 by waynekerr55

Well it seems strange that you'll nail your colours to the mast when they're intent on burning the country down but hey ho...

This is the problem with Brexit - the majority of arguments are hypothetical, you are indeed right that it may be better, but then again it may not be.

Anyway that's been and gone!


And there we go again!

I choose maybe because none of us know for certain.

I could have stridently said definitely and labelled remainers as stupid, who will make anything up to discredit others ;) (more of that later)

But I have more respect for the equally valid opinions of others
[Post edited 16 Jun 12:21]
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The wait was well worth it. on 13:23 - Jun 16 with 445 viewswaynekerr55

The wait was well worth it. on 12:16 - Jun 16 by chad

And there we go again!

I choose maybe because none of us know for certain.

I could have stridently said definitely and labelled remainers as stupid, who will make anything up to discredit others ;) (more of that later)

But I have more respect for the equally valid opinions of others
[Post edited 16 Jun 12:21]


Correct. It's a case of certainty, nothing is 100% but some hypothetical situations are a joke (not that you said this) - for example "Italy are next to leave" - wheres the evidence other than Farage Vox Pop?

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The wait was well worth it. on 13:27 - Jun 16 with 437 viewsvetchonian

The wait was well worth it. on 12:04 - Jun 16 by Highjack

Again, we don’t need Westminster to replace the EU money (which was our money in the first place). Just adding 1p to income tax would more than cover it. The amount we’ve ‘received’ has been grossly overstated. But the very gorgeous Mark Drakeford has said he won’t use the powers the welsh assembly has fought for. He’d rather go with a begging bowl to Westminster or Brussels and say “please sir, can I have some more?”


I dont think being taxed more is a benefit!!
Maybe dismantling the WAG is more beneficial in saving money

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The wait was well worth it. on 15:07 - Jun 16 with 418 viewsKilkennyjack

The wait was well worth it. on 13:27 - Jun 16 by vetchonian

I dont think being taxed more is a benefit!!
Maybe dismantling the WAG is more beneficial in saving money


WAG no longer exists.

Please try to keep up at the back.

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The wait was well worth it. on 16:08 - Jun 16 with 404 viewsHighjack

The wait was well worth it. on 13:27 - Jun 16 by vetchonian

I dont think being taxed more is a benefit!!
Maybe dismantling the WAG is more beneficial in saving money


Don’t forget we won’t be paying contributions anymore either. Most of the money we receive in Wales was ours in the first place.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The wait was well worth it. on 16:16 - Jun 16 with 395 viewsvetchonian

The wait was well worth it. on 16:08 - Jun 16 by Highjack

Don’t forget we won’t be paying contributions anymore either. Most of the money we receive in Wales was ours in the first place.


I know it was ours that we paid to the EU and then got back in form of grants.....my point is Westminster will not give us our fair share as we received via the EU...the "recoverewd wealth" will be spent in the SOuth East!!
Wales will return to as it was in the 60s and early 70s!

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The wait was well worth it. on 18:33 - Jun 16 with 371 viewsCatullus

The wait was well worth it. on 16:16 - Jun 16 by vetchonian

I know it was ours that we paid to the EU and then got back in form of grants.....my point is Westminster will not give us our fair share as we received via the EU...the "recoverewd wealth" will be spent in the SOuth East!!
Wales will return to as it was in the 60s and early 70s!


Wales got a net benefit of approx 245 million per year. Much of the EU granst was match funding wasn't it?
I guess it's wait and see as to what Bojo does but if he were to give Wales 300 million pear year more then we would be better off. I suppose it's possible!

The EU appears to have backtracked on fishing today, well the Express reports that so who knows.

I know leaving is a gamble in many respects. I'll accept that we could be worse off. I have hope that we can be better off though. I'm different to many on here in y reasons for leaving though, I wasn't thinking about immigration or money. I wasn't happy with the political organisation itself, the corruption, the negligence or the desire for ever further integration that was/is heading towards federalism. We have too many politicians. Wales was being governed by 3 political bodies, 3 lots of politicians but we only need one. How many politicians do we need when all they do is screw things up? The more politicians we have the more screwed up things get.

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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The wait was well worth it. on 19:24 - Jun 16 with 352 viewsLeonWasGod

The wait was well worth it. on 19:45 - Jun 15 by Catullus

Sometimes, Leon, just sometimes you have to hit absolutely rock bottom before you can start to climb back up.

When you say we were part of the big three, ok I won't argue but, when decisions were being made, if France and Germany wanted it we couldn't stop them. We had very little real influence. Germany has been very busy making sure she is protected. Macron too sided with Merkel at almost every turn because he is a federalist, he wants the EU to take more powers away from member states,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/emmanuel-macron-sets-out-10-year-v

Remember cameron going to the Eu with a wishlist, he got next to nothing but came back saying he'd got what he wanted. It was that kind of BS that drove people toards leave.

Back to today, well this last week anyway. Apparently Barnier has been telling the EU council they have to be willing to compromise but first to say no was Macron, he won't shift unless the UK gives unfettered access to UK fishing grounds. They all want different things, they all expect us to cave so they can protect their own countries. Portugal has been having a meltdon at the prospect of losing UK tourists. Spain wants us to habe over Gibraltar and calls us colonialist but will they hand their overseas territories back?

The EU isn't united on one subject besides the UK has to give up everything if we want a trade deal.
Germany has revolted against the EU over the ECB, energy policy and state aid for Lufthansa.

They are trying to protect themselves individually not negotiate a fair deal for everyone.

Still, we'll see what happens.
.


I suppose my take on that was that we weren't at rock bottom and didn't need to go there.

I wouldn't take Cameron's failures as representative of our relationship with the EU. He fecked up everything he touched. This was the guy that sacrificed our position in the largest EU party to secure the backing of the ERG group for his Tory leadership bid, only to not need their support afterall. So literally overnight he hamstrung the UK's influence in the EU parliament. I was visiting the parliament at the time (sponsored by a Tory MEP, so knew a few of them) and Cameron's approach was deeply unpopular even amongst his own.

As you say, we'll see. We don't agree on this, but it's nice to be able to be civil about it (a rarity on here!). I think the Brexit project is completely unecessary and we should be building bridges with our nearest neighbours in this period of misplaced exceptionalism and crude nationalism. I don't think I'll change that view.
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The wait was well worth it. on 20:12 - Jun 16 with 323 viewsmajorraglan

The wait was well worth it. on 12:04 - Jun 16 by Highjack

Again, we don’t need Westminster to replace the EU money (which was our money in the first place). Just adding 1p to income tax would more than cover it. The amount we’ve ‘received’ has been grossly overstated. But the very gorgeous Mark Drakeford has said he won’t use the powers the welsh assembly has fought for. He’d rather go with a begging bowl to Westminster or Brussels and say “please sir, can I have some more?”


Adding 1p to income tax would bring in more cash and that’s all well and good, unless the Government then see it as an opportunity to cut the central funding by a corresponding amount and redistribute the cash elsewhere.

We saw Westminster come in at the last minute and take the Roche Covid tests which caused ructions with the 3 devolved governments and London, we are also hearing that they are looking a diverting English students from Welsh universities to protect the English establishments, so we need to be careful how things are played. For what it’s worth I would be happy to pay an extra 1p in the pound tax if that money was spent wisely, but I don’t trust either government to do that.
[Post edited 16 Jun 20:12]
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The wait was well worth it. on 20:44 - Jun 16 with 304 viewsHighjack

The wait was well worth it. on 19:24 - Jun 16 by LeonWasGod

I suppose my take on that was that we weren't at rock bottom and didn't need to go there.

I wouldn't take Cameron's failures as representative of our relationship with the EU. He fecked up everything he touched. This was the guy that sacrificed our position in the largest EU party to secure the backing of the ERG group for his Tory leadership bid, only to not need their support afterall. So literally overnight he hamstrung the UK's influence in the EU parliament. I was visiting the parliament at the time (sponsored by a Tory MEP, so knew a few of them) and Cameron's approach was deeply unpopular even amongst his own.

As you say, we'll see. We don't agree on this, but it's nice to be able to be civil about it (a rarity on here!). I think the Brexit project is completely unecessary and we should be building bridges with our nearest neighbours in this period of misplaced exceptionalism and crude nationalism. I don't think I'll change that view.


I’ve always been civil even in the face of constant abuse (you should see some of my PM’s). Or at least I hope so.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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The wait was well worth it. on 09:36 - Jun 17 with 242 viewswaynekerr55

The wait was well worth it. on 20:44 - Jun 16 by Highjack

I’ve always been civil even in the face of constant abuse (you should see some of my PM’s). Or at least I hope so.


You have, Mr HJ

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