| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:29 - Jan 1 with 4402 views | Uxbridge |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:13 - Jan 1 by TheResurrection |
Have you already forgotten you fawning over last January's window?? |
I could respond by asking if you've forgotten your calls for Jenkins' head in the past.
I've not even mentioned his conduct in recent weeks, the issue of questionable board minutes and some easily demonstrable untruths. There's plenty there that would get you in hot water in most jobs, and at least one that'd see you walked out the door.
Surely there must be better out there. [Post edited 1 Jan 2018 23:30]
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:30 - Jan 1 with 4399 views | Outsider |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:19 - Jan 1 by 34dfgdf54 |
To be honest I’ve wondered this. Wasn’t it still four months before the sale was actual completed? What was different between this and the time the other Americans came in? Obviously it was in a much more advanced stage but still if there was definite causes for legal action etc surely it would of scuppered it? |
This good question has been raised many times. There has not been a clear answer from previous or current Trust board members. |  | | |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:32 - Jan 1 with 4383 views | Swanseaman |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:15 - Jan 1 by dobjack2 |
If my memory serves me well the twonks sold the voting rights of the shares that they didn’t sell so that whilst the Americans do not hold over 75% of the shares they control more than 75% of the votes. [Post edited 1 Jan 2018 23:16]
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I'd like to find out more about these voting rights.
If what you say is correct, it may be worth perusing legal consultation by the trust into getting that ruling overturned by deeming it as illegal. Because if they have done this to the trust, it stinks and it may be the best form of legal action available to them.
You never know, Jenkins and Morgans may even decide to be on the trusts side in this case. The sale was done behind their backs, there seems plenty of legal issues which weren't adhered to correctly. And the fact that they may have been pushed out of ever gaining any voting rights. A court of law may be in the trusts favor considering how badly they have been treated.. |  |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:35 - Jan 1 with 4363 views | ploppy |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:07 - Jan 1 by Uxbridge |
Ha.
Oh but they did step away from the model. There was a conscious effort to change the playing philosophy and split the recruitmemt/management structure. Each managerial appointment moved us away from that or was reactive.
You want to give credit to Jenkins keeping us up last year, I presume for the January window. It wasn't bad. Not brilliant, but not bad. Sorted some issues out. Probably made the difference. I'd give Clement the majority of the credit myself - he sorted out a defence that was shambolic beforehand, and with a set piece weapon in Siggy/Llorente we squeaked home. However I'd ask why we were in the position we were in then. And are in now. Jenkins has bungled far too much on the playing side for far too long. I don't even care to speculate if that's because he's focused on selling his shares or not, for the purposes of this conversation it doesn't matter.
Jenkins ' strength was being excellent at picking managers and, mainly, leaving them to their own devices. Until the last few years he was excellent at it. Look at who was manager when recruitment was good, and look at how recruitment worked then. The more it came in house, the worse it got. It's been more in house since Laudrup left. With one or two exceptions, it's been abysmal since. The squad is clearly a pale shadow of 2014.
Your comment regarding his replacement ignores realities. It's not for me to decide who will be his replacement. I'm just of the opinion he's overseen a ship that has spiralled downwards over the last three seasons and, as a well paid executive responsible for that, he should be held accountable. It's no different to you calling for Clement's head... And I didn't see you expecting to be held to the same standard of having to provide the name of his successor. It's a poor riposte IMO. There are always candidates to replace him, and the right person needs to be chosen.
I understand why you rate Jenkins. In the past, he did well in the role. Very well. However his record in recent years is poor, and like anyone, they need to be held accountable. |
Can you elaborate on the "conscious effort to change the playing philosophy"? You may be party to more inside info than me, but what I remember was deteriorating performances under Laudrup, better performances (at least for a season) under Monk, who started to believe he was a tactical genius when he changed formation during the game against Man Utd at home which we went on to win, giving him confidence to play his beloved but tedious diamond formation and being "happy to not have the ball". Since Monk's departure we've just been firefighting in a desperate attempt to stay in the PL. So who do you believe was behind the effort to change the playing philosophy? | | | |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:37 - Jan 1 with 4348 views | chad |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:19 - Jan 1 by 34dfgdf54 |
To be honest I’ve wondered this. Wasn’t it still four months before the sale was actual completed? What was different between this and the time the other Americans came in? Obviously it was in a much more advanced stage but still if there was definite causes for legal action etc surely it would of scuppered it? |
Think the case for legal action came because of the disadvantaged position the sale and what immediately surrounded it, placed us in, rather than the sale itself
(if you ignore the fact that the Shareholder agreement should have given us right of first refusal - and I did suggest well before completion that the Trust should write to the buyers to tell them if they went ahead before that opportunity was given to us then they were taking part in an illegal sale. I felt the Trust were afraid to stop the sale - just my opinion) |  | | |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:41 - Jan 1 with 4327 views | TheResurrection |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:19 - Jan 1 by 34dfgdf54 |
To be honest I’ve wondered this. Wasn’t it still four months before the sale was actual completed? What was different between this and the time the other Americans came in? Obviously it was in a much more advanced stage but still if there was definite causes for legal action etc surely it would of scuppered it? |
Even a public statement of outrage...
But we had nothing.
For so long we had nothing....
Still no answer from the question though?? |  |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 00:34 - Jan 2 with 4229 views | harryhpalmer |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:07 - Jan 1 by Uxbridge |
Ha.
Oh but they did step away from the model. There was a conscious effort to change the playing philosophy and split the recruitmemt/management structure. Each managerial appointment moved us away from that or was reactive.
You want to give credit to Jenkins keeping us up last year, I presume for the January window. It wasn't bad. Not brilliant, but not bad. Sorted some issues out. Probably made the difference. I'd give Clement the majority of the credit myself - he sorted out a defence that was shambolic beforehand, and with a set piece weapon in Siggy/Llorente we squeaked home. However I'd ask why we were in the position we were in then. And are in now. Jenkins has bungled far too much on the playing side for far too long. I don't even care to speculate if that's because he's focused on selling his shares or not, for the purposes of this conversation it doesn't matter.
Jenkins ' strength was being excellent at picking managers and, mainly, leaving them to their own devices. Until the last few years he was excellent at it. Look at who was manager when recruitment was good, and look at how recruitment worked then. The more it came in house, the worse it got. It's been more in house since Laudrup left. With one or two exceptions, it's been abysmal since. The squad is clearly a pale shadow of 2014.
Your comment regarding his replacement ignores realities. It's not for me to decide who will be his replacement. I'm just of the opinion he's overseen a ship that has spiralled downwards over the last three seasons and, as a well paid executive responsible for that, he should be held accountable. It's no different to you calling for Clement's head... And I didn't see you expecting to be held to the same standard of having to provide the name of his successor. It's a poor riposte IMO. There are always candidates to replace him, and the right person needs to be chosen.
I understand why you rate Jenkins. In the past, he did well in the role. Very well. However his record in recent years is poor, and like anyone, they need to be held accountable. |
yep. in British football it is always the Manager's fault, and who gets sacked. never the Chairman.
In Europe the DoF is not the Chairman. and he'll get the boot as easily as the Manager if recruitment goes t*ts up. | |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 00:56 - Jan 2 with 4172 views | chad |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 16:29 - Jan 1 by Darran |
Again mind it is a bit bizarre that you’ve always been far more against Phil and The Trust than you have against the actual sellouts.
Why is that exactly? |
No Darran I have always been 100% for the Trust. That is why I go to meetings and raise issues of concern (many of which you share - but don't bother to do the same yourself, despite constantly criticising others). There is nothing in this for me and others who do likewise except contributing to what we think is best for the future, the Trust and the fair, open and honest inclusion of all supporters in critical decisions on the way forward.
Don’t make the mistake of confusing an organisation with individuals who represent it from time to time.
As far as Jenkins, I think you will find I was (and still am) repeatedly criticising him whilst you were still kissing his butt. Why is that I wonder ;)
However he is largely an irrelevance to me, he is obviously already done at his own hand.
Whereas the Trust is the future for supporters, but must be above question and fit for purpose. It is our organisation and controls our resources for the long term benefit of maintaining professional football in Swansea. It is not a power base for, or a tool to be manipulated by, individuals, who may erroneously think their opinion is more important than that of the supporters they represent.
Don’t you agree?
Don’t you also agree that the best way to sort the sellouts is to hold them up to public disgrace as their antics and duplicity are evidenced in perpetuity in court record? At the same time getting justice for the Trust and the small matter of £21 million to protect the club in the future, with no gag on us speaking out and no ongoing toxic, fractious, and powerless relationship with the venture capitalists that currently control the club and will continue to do so until they sell to whoever they want - and there is little we can do about that with or without shares. | | | |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 07:34 - Jan 2 with 4007 views | Shaky |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 23:37 - Jan 1 by chad |
Think the case for legal action came because of the disadvantaged position the sale and what immediately surrounded it, placed us in, rather than the sale itself
(if you ignore the fact that the Shareholder agreement should have given us right of first refusal - and I did suggest well before completion that the Trust should write to the buyers to tell them if they went ahead before that opportunity was given to us then they were taking part in an illegal sale. I felt the Trust were afraid to stop the sale - just my opinion) |
Far more likely that the rights bestowed under the Shareholders' Agreement were largely meaningless.
And legally speaking the failure to make any sort of serious effort to assert the right of first refusal means you don't put any real value on it. As such there is a strong argument the Trust's own conduct in this rendered the SHAG sidelined.
Fortunately this is not at all relevant to the unfair prejudice action. So just move on and stop trying to wheel out pisspoor arguments to justify past tactical mistakes! |  |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 08:47 - Jan 2 with 3882 views | Shaky |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 07:34 - Jan 2 by Shaky |
Far more likely that the rights bestowed under the Shareholders' Agreement were largely meaningless.
And legally speaking the failure to make any sort of serious effort to assert the right of first refusal means you don't put any real value on it. As such there is a strong argument the Trust's own conduct in this rendered the SHAG sidelined.
Fortunately this is not at all relevant to the unfair prejudice action. So just move on and stop trying to wheel out pisspoor arguments to justify past tactical mistakes! |
. . and just thinking about this further, let me say this. Waffling on about the rigths and wrongs of the situation surrounding the shareholders' agreement is quite possibly outright detrimental to the unfair prejudice action.
I am not going to explain why here, but the nature of the relationship between Trust and the others goes to the very heart of the basis of the unfair prejucide action claim.
So in the interests of the Trust's case I strongly suggest people shut the fcuk up about this. That includes the Trust, except on the advice of people who actually understand the case. Seriously. | |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 09:34 - Jan 2 with 3776 views | Darran |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 00:56 - Jan 2 by chad |
No Darran I have always been 100% for the Trust. That is why I go to meetings and raise issues of concern (many of which you share - but don't bother to do the same yourself, despite constantly criticising others). There is nothing in this for me and others who do likewise except contributing to what we think is best for the future, the Trust and the fair, open and honest inclusion of all supporters in critical decisions on the way forward.
Don’t make the mistake of confusing an organisation with individuals who represent it from time to time.
As far as Jenkins, I think you will find I was (and still am) repeatedly criticising him whilst you were still kissing his butt. Why is that I wonder ;)
However he is largely an irrelevance to me, he is obviously already done at his own hand.
Whereas the Trust is the future for supporters, but must be above question and fit for purpose. It is our organisation and controls our resources for the long term benefit of maintaining professional football in Swansea. It is not a power base for, or a tool to be manipulated by, individuals, who may erroneously think their opinion is more important than that of the supporters they represent.
Don’t you agree?
Don’t you also agree that the best way to sort the sellouts is to hold them up to public disgrace as their antics and duplicity are evidenced in perpetuity in court record? At the same time getting justice for the Trust and the small matter of £21 million to protect the club in the future, with no gag on us speaking out and no ongoing toxic, fractious, and powerless relationship with the venture capitalists that currently control the club and will continue to do so until they sell to whoever they want - and there is little we can do about that with or without shares. |
Ive known Huw Jenkins since before you and most people knew the bloke existed so it’ll be nice if you’re going to keep repeating I was kissing his arse that you’d show everyone the proof.
I can’t recall you ever criticising Jenkins in the same way you’ve criticised the Trust so you’re quite simply a liar. |  |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 10:28 - Jan 2 with 3687 views | whoflungdung |
I'm wondering if there will be a book about all this . Jeez, a decent screenwriter would have a feast with the material we give him | |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 10:51 - Jan 2 with 3642 views | Oldjack |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 10:28 - Jan 2 by whoflungdung |
I'm wondering if there will be a book about all this . Jeez, a decent screenwriter would have a feast with the material we give him |
A film about lies lies and more lies plus a lot of back stabbing whilst Rome burns ,could be on a winner here ! |  |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 11:03 - Jan 2 with 3612 views | Seventhree |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 10:51 - Jan 2 by Oldjack |
A film about lies lies and more lies plus a lot of back stabbing whilst Rome burns ,could be on a winner here ! |
Have you submitted your CV to the club yet, stating you will do the chairmanship job for half the money ? | | | |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 11:11 - Jan 2 with 3582 views | Oldjack |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 11:03 - Jan 2 by Seventhree |
Have you submitted your CV to the club yet, stating you will do the chairmanship job for half the money ? |
they'll come headhunting me if the want the best, but before i accept they'll all have to go on Jeremy Kyle for a little bit of lie detecting first ,you can't be to careful with their track records init [Post edited 2 Jan 2018 11:16]
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| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 11:11 - Jan 2 with 3581 views | chad |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 07:34 - Jan 2 by Shaky |
Far more likely that the rights bestowed under the Shareholders' Agreement were largely meaningless.
And legally speaking the failure to make any sort of serious effort to assert the right of first refusal means you don't put any real value on it. As such there is a strong argument the Trust's own conduct in this rendered the SHAG sidelined.
Fortunately this is not at all relevant to the unfair prejudice action. So just move on and stop trying to wheel out pisspoor arguments to justify past tactical mistakes! |
Ha shakes I was thinking of the severe chiding I would get from you as I wrote it and I largely agree with you.
However that truth was already fully out there and undoubtedly understood by Counsel and perhaps wise we test out own fences
But I do completely take your point — the reason I have not pressed other obvious questions I have about other issues, even though I personally see no real direct relationship between them and the case.
Thanks for your ongoing input it is much appreciated by many, even when rightfully told to STFU :) | | | |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 12:16 - Jan 2 with 3468 views | Shaky |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 11:11 - Jan 2 by chad |
Ha shakes I was thinking of the severe chiding I would get from you as I wrote it and I largely agree with you.
However that truth was already fully out there and undoubtedly understood by Counsel and perhaps wise we test out own fences
But I do completely take your point — the reason I have not pressed other obvious questions I have about other issues, even though I personally see no real direct relationship between them and the case.
Thanks for your ongoing input it is much appreciated by many, even when rightfully told to STFU :) |
As I have already mentioned, don't expect the QC to have overly immersed himself in the circumstances for the case for the relative measly 5 grand paid!
I'll tell you though the crux of the matter regarding the SHAG. The central foundation of the legal case I put forward, was there was a relationship between the Trust and the other shareholders based on trust that went way beyond the strictly legal normally found in companies. A special relationship.
The point is not decisive, but the more there are legal structures like say shareholders agreements the less that argument holds, although that said there are no doubt more than ample proofs flying around of the supposed commitment of Jenkins et al to the notion of collective ownership.
The legal twist though here is that by arguing there was no shareholders' agreement, Jenkkins has actually shot himself in the foot. And regardless of how much backtracking takes places on that now, the laywers' letter urging the Trust to acknowledge the non-existance of the agreement fatally undermines any such efforts.
The irony is actually delicious! | |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 14:24 - Jan 2 with 3299 views | Smellyplumz |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 12:16 - Jan 2 by Shaky |
As I have already mentioned, don't expect the QC to have overly immersed himself in the circumstances for the case for the relative measly 5 grand paid!
I'll tell you though the crux of the matter regarding the SHAG. The central foundation of the legal case I put forward, was there was a relationship between the Trust and the other shareholders based on trust that went way beyond the strictly legal normally found in companies. A special relationship.
The point is not decisive, but the more there are legal structures like say shareholders agreements the less that argument holds, although that said there are no doubt more than ample proofs flying around of the supposed commitment of Jenkins et al to the notion of collective ownership.
The legal twist though here is that by arguing there was no shareholders' agreement, Jenkkins has actually shot himself in the foot. And regardless of how much backtracking takes places on that now, the laywers' letter urging the Trust to acknowledge the non-existance of the agreement fatally undermines any such efforts.
The irony is actually delicious! |
Will they take it to court in your opinion? |  |
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""Although I cannot promise or predict the future, I can guarantee one thing - the current board of directors will always fight, as we have done over the last 12 years, to work together as one with the Supporters Trust to make 100% sure that Swansea City football club remains the number one priority in all our thoughts and in every decision we make." | | Poll: | Huw Jenkins |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 14:35 - Jan 2 with 3268 views | Shaky |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 14:24 - Jan 2 by Smellyplumz |
Will they take it to court in your opinion? |
Hard to say what's going on there at the moment. But I know they can be forced to go to court, or else individually removed so as to make that happen.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that, however. | |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 14:49 - Jan 2 with 3238 views | swancity |
Has Rob Davies considered that if the Club is indeed heading for oblivion then it's directly attributable to the actions of the underhand, sneaky fookers who sold the Club, himself included. ðŸ‘🻠| |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 15:56 - Jan 2 with 3124 views | MillJack |
I’ve only made it to Page 5 of this thread but, to summise, what I think E20Jack is getting at is that if Jenkins was to resign/get sacked now it may lead to us getting relegated this season which would then be the supporters fault because they forced him out?
Nothing to do with the f@cking dreadful transfer windows over the past few seasons, the terrible managerial sackings/appointments or the selling of shares to an American hedge fund? Rightio then.
He comes across like your run-of-the-mill Cardiff City fan, desperate to cling on to perceived team success at any cost. Remember when they were happy to accept a complete overhaul of their identity just for 5 minutes of fame in the Premier League? E20Jack’s opinions are exactly the same. [Post edited 2 Jan 2018 15:59]
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 16:00 - Jan 2 with 3099 views | 1462jack |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 15:56 - Jan 2 by MillJack |
I’ve only made it to Page 5 of this thread but, to summise, what I think E20Jack is getting at is that if Jenkins was to resign/get sacked now it may lead to us getting relegated this season which would then be the supporters fault because they forced him out?
Nothing to do with the f@cking dreadful transfer windows over the past few seasons, the terrible managerial sackings/appointments or the selling of shares to an American hedge fund? Rightio then.
He comes across like your run-of-the-mill Cardiff City fan, desperate to cling on to perceived team success at any cost. Remember when they were happy to accept a complete overhaul of their identity just for 5 minutes of fame in the Premier League? E20Jack’s opinions are exactly the same. [Post edited 2 Jan 2018 15:59]
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Bang on the money |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 16:09 - Jan 2 with 3063 views | cymrojack |
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 12:05]
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| Gwynedd & Swansea - Veteran of Morriston Boys Club |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 16:25 - Jan 2 with 3013 views | swancity |
"There is no obligation to keep shareholders informed ( of intention to sell ) ?" Says Rob Davies
Legally, may be not. Morally, and after what has gone on previously, it was absolutely essential that the Trust were kept informed. The fact that he cannot or doesn't want to accept that is mystifying and doesn't wash. It's another attempt to deflect blame. They've been rumbled and are trying to back track. It's not working, accept you've dropped an almighty bollock, apologise and then keep your stinking hooters out of it. ðŸ‘🻠| |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 16:29 - Jan 2 with 3775 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Former Swans Shareholder Rob Davies Says Club Is Heading For Oblivion on 16:25 - Jan 2 by swancity |
"There is no obligation to keep shareholders informed ( of intention to sell ) ?" Says Rob Davies
Legally, may be not. Morally, and after what has gone on previously, it was absolutely essential that the Trust were kept informed. The fact that he cannot or doesn't want to accept that is mystifying and doesn't wash. It's another attempt to deflect blame. They've been rumbled and are trying to back track. It's not working, accept you've dropped an almighty bollock, apologise and then keep your stinking hooters out of it. ðŸ‘🻠|
Legally there was. | | | |
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