| Churchill and Wales 10:57 - Jan 17 with 24680 views | trampie |
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:34 - Jan 25 with 2261 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:18 - Jan 25 by Lord_Bony |
My opinion is we had to destroy the French Navy or it would have been used against us.
I still don't agree we would have been left in peace had we not intervened in Poland,many think we would have.
But an emboldened Hitler along with his many allies including Italy and Japan would have wanted total domination. Thankfully,his military blunders put an end to that.
We were right to stop him. |
That's your opinion. It's not one that's shared by the official documentation lodged at the Archives Nationales nor is it borne out by any published war memoir that I have encountered.
"It was shattering to see what we had just done. It was a scene of utter devastation. I don't have any pride in being part of it, only great sadness - Churchill was in control, not our Admiral. If it had been our Admiral, we'd never have done it. But he had a direct order"
Robert Philpot, Operation Catapult.
Still, Joe Kennedy confessed himself impressed when he poured another whisky. That's the main thing. [Post edited 25 Jan 2018 14:19]
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:41 - Jan 25 with 2247 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:31 - Jan 25 by exiledclaseboy |
There’s an absolutely ridiculous scene in there. Churchill is having doubts about the rightness of his actions in refusing to speak to Germany due to staunch and vocal opposition from the “appeasers” in the War Cabinet, like Halifax. Even the King himself visits Winston to warn him that he doesn’t fancy having to evacuate the little princesses to Canada in the event that Churchill f*cks up and Gerry invades. Ridden with self doubt, Churchill decides to consult “normal people” by taking an unscheduled and unpublicised trip on the tube. To a man and woman the downtrodden travellers reject negotiations and are gung ho in their belief that Churchill’s nonnegotiable path is the right one. Emboldened by this unwavering support, Churchill goes to the Commons and makes the famous “fight them on the beaches” speech.
And the rest as they say, is history. Or at least based on true events, some of which may have been invented for dramatic purposes (that’ll probably be in the small print somewhere). |
Does it really? 
The problem with the history of the world as told by Hollywood is that huge numbers of folk get so completely taken in they mistake glittery trade beads for pearls.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:53 - Jan 25 with 2226 views | Lord_Bony |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:34 - Jan 25 by Lohengrin |
That's your opinion. It's not one that's shared by the official documentation lodged at the Archives Nationales nor is it borne out by any published war memoir that I have encountered.
"It was shattering to see what we had just done. It was a scene of utter devastation. I don't have any pride in being part of it, only great sadness - Churchill was in control, not our Admiral. If it had been our Admiral, we'd never have done it. But he had a direct order"
Robert Philpot, Operation Catapult.
Still, Joe Kennedy confessed himself impressed when he poured another whisky. That's the main thing. [Post edited 25 Jan 2018 14:19]
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Don't talk daft. How can you say that!
Most of the War Cabinet at the time gave their backing that if the Vichy did not surrender the Navy
(They had the opportunity) then it should be attacked and "any means necessary" used to prevent it falling into German hands. |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 14:08 - Jan 25 with 2208 views | sherpajacob |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:41 - Jan 25 by Lohengrin |
Does it really?
The problem with the history of the world as told by Hollywood is that huge numbers of folk get so completely taken in they mistake glittery trade beads for pearls. |
You mean Ben Affleck didn't win the battle of Britain all on his own? |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 14:15 - Jan 25 with 2195 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:53 - Jan 25 by Lord_Bony |
Don't talk daft. How can you say that!
Most of the War Cabinet at the time gave their backing that if the Vichy did not surrender the Navy
(They had the opportunity) then it should be attacked and "any means necessary" used to prevent it falling into German hands. |
What do you mean how? Oddly enough French naval 'actions on' policy in 1940 wasn't formulated by Churchill and Brendan Bracken. The orders the French fleet had were to scuttle if the Germans attempted to take possession.
I'll type out a few more quotes for you, Bony.
We were happy to see them. We shouted to each other: "The British have arrived! They've come to get us to continue the fight against the Nazis.''
Andre Jaffre, on board the battleship Bretagne
" We all feel thoroughly ashamed."
Admiral Sommerville | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 14:17 - Jan 25 with 2194 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 14:08 - Jan 25 by sherpajacob |
You mean Ben Affleck didn't win the battle of Britain all on his own? |
I'm afraid not, nor did Jon Bon Jovi capture Enigma....
Do you feel cheated?  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 14:18 - Jan 25 with 2192 views | Highjack |
| Churchill and Wales on 14:08 - Jan 25 by sherpajacob |
You mean Ben Affleck didn't win the battle of Britain all on his own? |
Ridiculous innit? He'll be suggesting that Pearl Harbor was an important historical and pivotal historical event next when we all know it was about a love triangle between three horny teenagers.
Ben affleck was involved there too, I see a pattern emerging. |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 00:27 - Jan 26 with 2108 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:31 - Jan 25 by exiledclaseboy |
There’s an absolutely ridiculous scene in there. Churchill is having doubts about the rightness of his actions in refusing to speak to Germany due to staunch and vocal opposition from the “appeasers” in the War Cabinet, like Halifax. Even the King himself visits Winston to warn him that he doesn’t fancy having to evacuate the little princesses to Canada in the event that Churchill f*cks up and Gerry invades. Ridden with self doubt, Churchill decides to consult “normal people” by taking an unscheduled and unpublicised trip on the tube. To a man and woman the downtrodden travellers reject negotiations and are gung ho in their belief that Churchill’s nonnegotiable path is the right one. Emboldened by this unwavering support, Churchill goes to the Commons and makes the famous “fight them on the beaches” speech.
And the rest as they say, is history. Or at least based on true events, some of which may have been invented for dramatic purposes (that’ll probably be in the small print somewhere). |
What embarrassingly vacuous shite. Still, as well as the film making money, it promulgates the myth (over generations) that the views of 'normal people' even enter the spheres of thought of our politicians whilst they're making 'decisions.' Cringworthy sh*te.
They don't. They never have. Whores to finance. |  |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 00:39 - Jan 26 with 2100 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Churchill and Wales on 12:35 - Jan 25 by perchrockjack |
I don't agree with Lohegrin here but fully do so with Bony
Without doubt ,Britain (including) Wales, would have been under Hitler s power. Hitler wasn't one to share really and we would have been emasculated as a country and would have had Edward the Filth as a puppet figure head.
The Filth that was Eire would have taken any advantage to see British exit Ireland regardless of the wider picture . Its why I have nothing but contempt for the Irish ad Ireland ,so hang me now.
Churchill was not likeable but leaders in times of war aren't there to be liked .
I repeat... we are so utterly ungrateful and I feel deep shame when I see trampie churning out this regular ,revulsive garbage |
Too right perch, could have been awful.
In the long term we could have been a nation in thrall to the Satanic usurers. To an unpayable debt. Of now ÂŁ2 trillion, and rising fast. Our industries could have been sold off on the cheap just a few decades after the war; hell, they may have even sent in the police against civilians in some cases to make sure this occurred. Our infrastructure (railway, national grid, post office, student loan book, eurostar - anything that makes a profit funnily enough) could have put up for sale to any country for any price.
It could have resulted in us being gleefully asset stripped long term and resembling a third world country.
Still, lucky that never happened eh. [Post edited 26 Jan 2018 0:42]
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| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 07:32 - Jan 26 with 2050 views | trampie |
It's people of Perch's generations fault, they have ruined this country for their own greed and many will never forgive them. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 10:00 - Jan 26 with 2024 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Churchill and Wales on 07:32 - Jan 26 by trampie |
It's people of Perch's generations fault, they have ruined this country for their own greed and many will never forgive them. |
Nonsense tramp. It wasn't them directly responsible for (for example) all of our industry being sold off over decades, nor our council housing being sold off and not replaced. Both of which were deliberate policies by our government, more than likely under the advice of finance. Don't believe in the divide and conquer bollocks about it being a particular generation's fault. This country has been run into the ground by design, you may want to look to Westminster and the square mile as to the reason why. | |
| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 10:13 - Jan 26 with 2018 views | perchrockjack |
I'm not sure where this is going apart from the fact one views history through the eyes of your political stance.
It's why Churchill is anathema to Killy and trampie. Talk to anyone ,in Swansea who survived the blitz and you might see a different angle . My parents generation
What s your generation done trampie .
Btw, how old are you and what s your occupation . Let's have it |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 10:28 - Jan 26 with 2009 views | felixstowe_jack |
The French navy could easily have sail to one of their possessions in the West Indies to give them time to decide their next step.
If the French navy had gone over to the Germans they could easily have prevented supplies getting to Malta and Egypt thereby ensuring victory for Rommel in North Africa and probably defeat for Britain as a whole.
That made it imperative that the either the French Navy surrendered or was destroyed. It is sad that a few thousands Frenchmen lost their lives In the end it probably save many hundred of thousands of live.
Let us not forget the hundreds of thousand French Civilians killed by American and British bombing raids and the French resistance which decided to fight against the Germans as opposed to the abject surrender of the French Army which was considerably smaller the the German Invasion force. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 10:44 - Jan 26 with 2001 views | perchrockjack |
Churchill s haters have conveniently omitted the fact he fought in three general elections after the war.
Attlee, after nationalising won a tiny majority in 1950 but lost the subsequent 51 election .
In 55 e Conservatives increased their majority.
The voting patterns then similiar to now ,industrial areas Labour, the rest Conservatives. A look at e voting map of 1955 is like a Blue Pool and shows indicate Labour is or wasn't the party of the " people" at all . | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 11:30 - Jan 26 with 1983 views | exhmrc1 |
| Churchill and Wales on 10:44 - Jan 26 by perchrockjack |
Churchill s haters have conveniently omitted the fact he fought in three general elections after the war.
Attlee, after nationalising won a tiny majority in 1950 but lost the subsequent 51 election .
In 55 e Conservatives increased their majority.
The voting patterns then similiar to now ,industrial areas Labour, the rest Conservatives. A look at e voting map of 1955 is like a Blue Pool and shows indicate Labour is or wasn't the party of the " people" at all . |
The truth you have missed is that in nearly every election since the war England has voted Tory whereas Wales and Scotland has voted Labour. The English vote is skewed in that most of Southern England outside London is basically blue. There have been parts of the West Midlands that turns Tory. This is the reason Swansea was never going to get the City of Culture. The Tories were not going to gain seats here and had more chance around Coventry. Yet you continue to back their policies that damage the area you pretend to support but continually slag off. You want to see things like the City of Culture and rail electrification but support the party who stops this happening in your supposedly much loved city. Your answer is to put someone on ignore when they point these unpleasant things out. As said in a previous post when you decide to stop coming to Swansea it will be our city's gain and your loss. | | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 11:48 - Jan 26 with 1982 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 10:28 - Jan 26 by felixstowe_jack |
The French navy could easily have sail to one of their possessions in the West Indies to give them time to decide their next step.
If the French navy had gone over to the Germans they could easily have prevented supplies getting to Malta and Egypt thereby ensuring victory for Rommel in North Africa and probably defeat for Britain as a whole.
That made it imperative that the either the French Navy surrendered or was destroyed. It is sad that a few thousands Frenchmen lost their lives In the end it probably save many hundred of thousands of live.
Let us not forget the hundreds of thousand French Civilians killed by American and British bombing raids and the French resistance which decided to fight against the Germans as opposed to the abject surrender of the French Army which was considerably smaller the the German Invasion force. |
That's the conventional view, I suppose. The face value assumption. The problem with that is the reality was nothing like as straightforward. The French naval commander in Oran, Admiral Gensoul, was possessed of no 'easy options' as a serviceman he was under orders. He found himself in exactly the same position as Admiral Sommerville his British opposite number. Sommerville knew that Gensoul's orders were to scupper if the Germans attempted to take control of his vessels at anchor, he also appreciated fully that the French were no more prepared to simply hand over all their capital ships to Britain than would the Admiralty Lords have handed ours to the French were the situations reversed.
It was a dark episode no matter how you approach it. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:03 - Jan 26 with 1955 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Churchill and Wales on 10:44 - Jan 26 by perchrockjack |
Churchill s haters have conveniently omitted the fact he fought in three general elections after the war.
Attlee, after nationalising won a tiny majority in 1950 but lost the subsequent 51 election .
In 55 e Conservatives increased their majority.
The voting patterns then similiar to now ,industrial areas Labour, the rest Conservatives. A look at e voting map of 1955 is like a Blue Pool and shows indicate Labour is or wasn't the party of the " people" at all . |
Who’s omitted the fact that Churchill led the tories in three elections? He lost two of them. Eden was leader in 1955 and what a catastrophe he turned out to be. |  |
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:17 - Jan 26 with 1951 views | perchrockjack |
Not you.andrew. Not you.
Look back at previous please
Yes, Suez was his downfall
Point is Churchill " hated" apparently but not enough for his winning two elections the last with an increased majority, which was, God help me, my point.
You seem to be pretty much a died on the wool Tory hater and that s fine but not everyone feels the same in this country, which was another of my points .
Sheesh | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:23 - Jan 26 with 1949 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:17 - Jan 26 by perchrockjack |
Not you.andrew. Not you.
Look back at previous please
Yes, Suez was his downfall
Point is Churchill " hated" apparently but not enough for his winning two elections the last with an increased majority, which was, God help me, my point.
You seem to be pretty much a died on the wool Tory hater and that s fine but not everyone feels the same in this country, which was another of my points .
Sheesh |
But he didn’t win two elections. He won one. Lost two.
And I don’t hate tories. I just mostly disagree with them. A marked difference. [Post edited 26 Jan 2018 13:24]
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| Churchill and Wales on 13:48 - Jan 26 with 1931 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 10:00 - Jan 26 by Jack_Meoff |
Nonsense tramp. It wasn't them directly responsible for (for example) all of our industry being sold off over decades, nor our council housing being sold off and not replaced. Both of which were deliberate policies by our government, more than likely under the advice of finance. Don't believe in the divide and conquer bollocks about it being a particular generation's fault. This country has been run into the ground by design, you may want to look to Westminster and the square mile as to the reason why. |
They voted for Thatcher and Blair they voted for those policies that made themselves richer at the expense of others and at the expense of future generations.
As long as there was more in work than out then the politicians knew they were onto a winner, they did not care, don't forget this was the generation of free love and drug taking they only cared for themselves, they turned away from religion and look at the state they have left the country in, shameful but there again they have no shame. [Post edited 26 Jan 2018 13:49]
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| Churchill and Wales on 14:06 - Jan 26 with 1909 views | Highjack |
| Churchill and Wales on 07:32 - Jan 26 by trampie |
It's people of Perch's generations fault, they have ruined this country for their own greed and many will never forgive them. |
People like Coldplay and voted for the nazis. You can't trust people Tramp. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 15:59 - Jan 26 with 1877 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Churchill and Wales on 13:48 - Jan 26 by trampie |
They voted for Thatcher and Blair they voted for those policies that made themselves richer at the expense of others and at the expense of future generations.
As long as there was more in work than out then the politicians knew they were onto a winner, they did not care, don't forget this was the generation of free love and drug taking they only cared for themselves, they turned away from religion and look at the state they have left the country in, shameful but there again they have no shame. [Post edited 26 Jan 2018 13:49]
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"Turned away from religion", you say that as if it's a bad thing. |  | | |
| Churchill and Wales on 16:33 - Jan 26 with 1854 views | trampie |
| Churchill and Wales on 15:59 - Jan 26 by Treforys_Jack |
"Turned away from religion", you say that as if it's a bad thing. |
No moral compass, they were and are the me me me generation. | |
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| Churchill and Wales on 16:46 - Jan 26 with 1848 views | Lohengrin |
| Churchill and Wales on 16:33 - Jan 26 by trampie |
No moral compass, they were and are the me me me generation. |
You're at it again, Tramp! Marx specifically rejected the theory of Moral Realism. It's a worldview bereft of objective moral 'fact.' Are you sure this 'true left' you trumpet is the place for you?
If you're going to be a nationalist then be a 'Nationalist,'stop dragging all that other shit behind you, it just makes a mess on the floor.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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