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"""We pissed away gobsmacking amounts of money by moving away from a system that worked. Huw Jenkins presided over that act of stupidity when all he had to do was keep doing what worked. Instead he decided to tear all that up when he promoted his snitch to the managers job and ape what every other club was doing."""
------
You'll get too many agreeing with this most simplistic of explanations.
And it's not fair or particularly accurate.
You say we moved away from a system that worked.
But for how long long in the EPL did we have that system?
* We were promoted in May 2011 * From August 2013 to January 2014 we struggle * There were well documented upsets in the ranks * We had a manager and his agent who attempted to manipulate our transfer policy to a model that would see them make on every deal
* THIS WAS A CLEAR STEP AWAY FROM WHAT COULD BE ARGUED WORKED FOR US UNTIL THIS POINT
* Garry Monk, who I know you blame for moving us away from our recruiting system stepped up in February 2014 * Monk steered us to safety * In 2014/2015 Monk took us to our highest finish by GOING BACK TO THE MODEL THAT GOT US TO THE EPL IN THE FIRST PLACE - NOT THE PLAYING STYLE - BUT THE RECRUITMENT MODEL
Now had Leon, instead of Monk, been able and available to take the reigns at that time we would no doubt have seen a completely different playing style and type of player coming in.
But he wasn't available and Monk came in and in the eyes of the footballing world, the EPL finish we had, and obviously from the Board of Directors perspective, did a good job.
OK, we didn't like the style of play and we can all too easily say that's where it all went wrong, but it's such a weak argument in so many aspects it deserves being called out as rubbish.
* In the EPL we had one season under Rodgers who recruited as we did post Monk ie the transfer committee + we then had one and a half seasons with Laudrup who changed it to his way + we then had the rest going back with the transfer committee
If we moved away from anything it was to accommodate Laudrup's agent and that only brought success for ONE TRANSFER WINDOW..... ONE!!!
it really is now time for people to start evaluating our recent history and not just jump on bandwagons or choose the sound bites that match their own narratives just to confirm their own bias.
It's time to see things as they really were and now are. The blame game is doing us no favours. This is a great chance to rebuild and start again.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 00:18 - Aug 14 by Kerouac
Everything he states in that article is true.
Why are you laughing? Do you think he is actually proposing that we should spend £200m we don't have? He doesn't ever say that, he is merely pointing out that those are the figures being spent by the clubs above us and therefore improving on his 1st season (top 10 and a Cup) is nigh on impossible. Clearly that is true.
The most interesting quote from that article is the words attributed to Tutumlu;
However, he added that the extension was signed after the club's board had given assurances about team strengthening.
Our board sold Laudrup down the river and then tried to force Garry Monk on him in the January window that we signed fecking Emnes and Ngog. I tend to agree with Laudrup's assessment of the backroom shenanigans; "Silly!"
"""He doesn't ever say that, he is merely pointing out that those are the figures being spent by the clubs above us and therefore improving on his 1st season (top 10 and a Cup) is nigh on impossible. Clearly that is true. """
Except Monk did it in his first season!!
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 00:25 - Aug 14 by Kerouac
E20, school's in sucker!
You will observe that a subject that has been discussed to death, a subject we are all board of, has been raised and I have made a contribution to the debate.
You will now note that having made my points clearly, concisely and coherently, that I am going to walk away...
...somebody else can have the last word, I can live with that
Class dismissed.
[Post edited 14 Aug 2018 0:28]
"""You will now note that having made my points clearly, concisely and coherently, that I am going to walk away...""""
Oh dear, embarrassing
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 00:33 - Aug 14 by KrisP
People take issue with the fact that managers had little say on players coming in from Monk onwards. Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup identified players they wanted. This is what worked for us, for years before the Premier league as well as our first years in it. Moving from this system to Jenkins playing Director of Football is the systemic change people speak of. Do you honestly think Bony was Clement's choice? Or that Andre Ayew was the man Carvahal wanted?
Now Potter is seemingly being allowed to highlight the players he wants to build the team he wants. This is what worked for us.
No, no, managers like Clement had fack all to offer in terms of a list of players he wanted and he was backed with the ones he asked for. Tammy and Sanches being 2.
Bony was offered as an option and Clement said yes.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 01:58 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection
"""He doesn't ever say that, he is merely pointing out that those are the figures being spent by the clubs above us and therefore improving on his 1st season (top 10 and a Cup) is nigh on impossible. Clearly that is true. """
Except Monk did it in his first season!!
Why do you choose to ignore the cup, our one and only major trophy?
It's a rhetorical question, don't bore us with an answer, we all know why you chose to ignore it.
All our managers bar one from Flynn to Laudrup had strong input into player acquisition. The only one who didn't was Sousa, and we ended up buying Cotterill, Beattie, resigning Trundle and attempting to do the same with Akinfenwa. Seems to be the case that when managers don't have strong input into transfers around here but Jenkins does there's a tendency to make expensive, haphazard signings and bring in old players. Tendencies that predate the Americans, Leadbeater or whoever is being chosen to carry the can for the guy who has been in charge of all of it.
Truth is of course that after Jenkins spent £5m+ on Ki only to have him marginalised and then ignored completely by Laudrup steps were taken to ensure that no manager had that much power again. The next manager was deliberately chosen because he was thought to be controllable (a decision that bit Jenkins on the arse in more ways than one).
And here we are.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
5
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:45 - Aug 14 with 1310 views
THe style that people talk about isn’t the one of a commitee or single person responsible, it is signing expensive, known players against signing players with something to prove. Once we started down the route of signing bigger name players on a free but with large wages e.g A Ayew and Gomis that it all started going horribly wrong. We then went through a period of paying large sums for players which we had never done before. And, arguably, not one of them has worked out.
There was a statement from the club this summer that they made mistakes in the past by letting non-footballing people have too large a day in transfers. As far as I can see the only non-football person on the transfer committee was Jenkins.
[Post edited 14 Aug 2018 7:53]
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WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:53 - Aug 14 with 1294 views
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:12 - Aug 14 by Dr_Winston
It's not all about the EPL though is it?
All our managers bar one from Flynn to Laudrup had strong input into player acquisition. The only one who didn't was Sousa, and we ended up buying Cotterill, Beattie, resigning Trundle and attempting to do the same with Akinfenwa. Seems to be the case that when managers don't have strong input into transfers around here but Jenkins does there's a tendency to make expensive, haphazard signings and bring in old players. Tendencies that predate the Americans, Leadbeater or whoever is being chosen to carry the can for the guy who has been in charge of all of it.
Truth is of course that after Jenkins spent £5m+ on Ki only to have him marginalised and then ignored completely by Laudrup steps were taken to ensure that no manager had that much power again. The next manager was deliberately chosen because he was thought to be controllable (a decision that bit Jenkins on the arse in more ways than one).
And here we are.
This post has been edited by an administrator
The classic trying to resign Akinfenwa two years after we released him
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:12 - Aug 14 by Dr_Winston
It's not all about the EPL though is it?
All our managers bar one from Flynn to Laudrup had strong input into player acquisition. The only one who didn't was Sousa, and we ended up buying Cotterill, Beattie, resigning Trundle and attempting to do the same with Akinfenwa. Seems to be the case that when managers don't have strong input into transfers around here but Jenkins does there's a tendency to make expensive, haphazard signings and bring in old players. Tendencies that predate the Americans, Leadbeater or whoever is being chosen to carry the can for the guy who has been in charge of all of it.
Truth is of course that after Jenkins spent £5m+ on Ki only to have him marginalised and then ignored completely by Laudrup steps were taken to ensure that no manager had that much power again. The next manager was deliberately chosen because he was thought to be controllable (a decision that bit Jenkins on the arse in more ways than one).
And here we are.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Yes it was all about the EPL because that's the league that sucks the life out of you.
That's why we got in the mess
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 22:35 - Aug 13 by TheResurrection
Nobody can argue with the points made so you revert to type, which starts off the way most threads go.
Moved away from what worked FFS??!! We'd only been in the EPL for one season before we did that.
Hopefully some will want to contribute to decent Swans related football chat apart from the usual vvank non contributers that have responded to date.
Try it, it would be a novel idea.
If people cannot debate the point you raise they revert to the following:-
* Post a silly picture * Make an (attempted) insulting quip * Post a youtube video * Make an unrelated point * Post a smiley * Make a personal remark in an attempt to discredit
...and of course the person with the actual initial constructive point is the troll. That's Planetswans for you.
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:12 - Aug 14 by Dr_Winston
It's not all about the EPL though is it?
All our managers bar one from Flynn to Laudrup had strong input into player acquisition. The only one who didn't was Sousa, and we ended up buying Cotterill, Beattie, resigning Trundle and attempting to do the same with Akinfenwa. Seems to be the case that when managers don't have strong input into transfers around here but Jenkins does there's a tendency to make expensive, haphazard signings and bring in old players. Tendencies that predate the Americans, Leadbeater or whoever is being chosen to carry the can for the guy who has been in charge of all of it.
Truth is of course that after Jenkins spent £5m+ on Ki only to have him marginalised and then ignored completely by Laudrup steps were taken to ensure that no manager had that much power again. The next manager was deliberately chosen because he was thought to be controllable (a decision that bit Jenkins on the arse in more ways than one).
And here we are.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Wow I've just read the rest of it now. Is that it? Is that your comeback to my OP?
You know from what you've written there I'm right and this post is just a white flag.
I see you've given Sousa an honorable mention. So again, even during our most successful time ever we still brought in a manager that had no contacts, just like Guidolin. Just like Clement.
We haven't changed that much at all, it's just that at times, we've been super lucky with managers.
Super lucky or well picked.
I know what most would choose from those options.
And why....
The arguments are getting weaker and weaker by the passing day.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
- Under Flynn we brought in players through his contacts - Trundle, Johnrose, Connolly. - Under Jackett we seemed to bring in players via his contacts too (although there were quite a few expensive mistakes during his time). - Martinez brought in my players from his contacts in Spain and remember Kevin Reeves list of targets that they stole and took to Wigan? - Sousa didn't seem to try and bring much in of his own apart from Lopez who was terrible. - Rodgers - pretty much every signing made while he was at the club were players he'd worked with previously at Watford, Chelsea or Reading. - Laudrup - he obviously used in knowledge of the Spanish leagues to bring in a lot of players useful to us.
Since then, no matter who the manager is, we are linked repeatedly with the same targets (Albert Adomah) which obviously hints at someone else overseeing transfers other than the manager. The results show this approach hasn't worked.
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:45 - Aug 14 by PawelAbbott
THe style that people talk about isn’t the one of a commitee or single person responsible, it is signing expensive, known players against signing players with something to prove. Once we started down the route of signing bigger name players on a free but with large wages e.g A Ayew and Gomis that it all started going horribly wrong. We then went through a period of paying large sums for players which we had never done before. And, arguably, not one of them has worked out.
There was a statement from the club this summer that they made mistakes in the past by letting non-footballing people have too large a day in transfers. As far as I can see the only non-football person on the transfer committee was Jenkins.
[Post edited 14 Aug 2018 7:53]
Thanks for bringing up Ayew and Gomis. Those signings absolutely do not reflect 'returning to what worked for us'. Neither does spending huge money on bringing Ayew and Bony back to the club.
The only transfer window that does suggest that approach is the January 2017 window, which you have to give the club credit for, as it was pretty successful. They didn't stick to that model though.
This is a bizarre attempt to defend the owners and I'd wonder why it wasn't in the thread that Dr Winston made his quoted comment in, but we all know why...
You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.
0
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:48 - Aug 14 with 1187 views
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 22:35 - Aug 13 by TheResurrection
Nobody can argue with the points made so you revert to type, which starts off the way most threads go.
Moved away from what worked FFS??!! We'd only been in the EPL for one season before we did that.
Hopefully some will want to contribute to decent Swans related football chat apart from the usual vvank non contributers that have responded to date.
Try it, it would be a novel idea.
Thing is, there is no chatting with you.
And if Monk was return8ng to a pre Laudrup situation how is Andre Ayew that type of signing? Or Gomis? Or Fat Frank. Siggy signed by Monk, but had been here before...brought in by BR.
You really are trying I’ll give you that.
1
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:50 - Aug 14 with 1180 views
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:45 - Aug 14 by PawelAbbott
THe style that people talk about isn’t the one of a commitee or single person responsible, it is signing expensive, known players against signing players with something to prove. Once we started down the route of signing bigger name players on a free but with large wages e.g A Ayew and Gomis that it all started going horribly wrong. We then went through a period of paying large sums for players which we had never done before. And, arguably, not one of them has worked out.
There was a statement from the club this summer that they made mistakes in the past by letting non-footballing people have too large a day in transfers. As far as I can see the only non-football person on the transfer committee was Jenkins.
[Post edited 14 Aug 2018 7:53]
If you had read the thread from yesterday you'd know it wasn't a club statement but one of some mug fan
Poor effort.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:12 - Aug 14 by Dr_Winston
It's not all about the EPL though is it?
All our managers bar one from Flynn to Laudrup had strong input into player acquisition. The only one who didn't was Sousa, and we ended up buying Cotterill, Beattie, resigning Trundle and attempting to do the same with Akinfenwa. Seems to be the case that when managers don't have strong input into transfers around here but Jenkins does there's a tendency to make expensive, haphazard signings and bring in old players. Tendencies that predate the Americans, Leadbeater or whoever is being chosen to carry the can for the guy who has been in charge of all of it.
Truth is of course that after Jenkins spent £5m+ on Ki only to have him marginalised and then ignored completely by Laudrup steps were taken to ensure that no manager had that much power again. The next manager was deliberately chosen because he was thought to be controllable (a decision that bit Jenkins on the arse in more ways than one).
And here we are.
This post has been edited by an administrator
And let me remind everyone about two very important aspects when it comes to the manager that made us who we are, or at least, were.
Roberto Martinez
1. How lucky is any club to pick out someone like that who could literally revolutionise a football club from top to bottom
2. The Doctor was dead against him coming. To the point he'd make frenzied arguments against.
Oh to be able to read some of those threads again...
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:21 - Aug 14 by E20Jack
If people cannot debate the point you raise they revert to the following:-
* Post a silly picture * Make an (attempted) insulting quip * Post a youtube video * Make an unrelated point * Post a smiley * Make a personal remark in an attempt to discredit
...and of course the person with the actual initial constructive point is the troll. That's Planetswans for you.
Go figure.
That's exactly how this site has always worked.
Bang on.
(great bulletin)
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:31 - Aug 14 by Chief
- Under Flynn we brought in players through his contacts - Trundle, Johnrose, Connolly. - Under Jackett we seemed to bring in players via his contacts too (although there were quite a few expensive mistakes during his time). - Martinez brought in my players from his contacts in Spain and remember Kevin Reeves list of targets that they stole and took to Wigan? - Sousa didn't seem to try and bring much in of his own apart from Lopez who was terrible. - Rodgers - pretty much every signing made while he was at the club were players he'd worked with previously at Watford, Chelsea or Reading. - Laudrup - he obviously used in knowledge of the Spanish leagues to bring in a lot of players useful to us.
Since then, no matter who the manager is, we are linked repeatedly with the same targets (Albert Adomah) which obviously hints at someone else overseeing transfers other than the manager. The results show this approach hasn't worked.
Even with the examples you gave you clearly highlighted how inaccurate a point it is you're trying to make.
Managers make football teams, some you get beautifully right, some you don't.
But hey, we should've got every appointment right. Shame on Jenkins 😂😂😂
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:12 - Aug 14 by Dr_Winston
It's not all about the EPL though is it?
All our managers bar one from Flynn to Laudrup had strong input into player acquisition. The only one who didn't was Sousa, and we ended up buying Cotterill, Beattie, resigning Trundle and attempting to do the same with Akinfenwa. Seems to be the case that when managers don't have strong input into transfers around here but Jenkins does there's a tendency to make expensive, haphazard signings and bring in old players. Tendencies that predate the Americans, Leadbeater or whoever is being chosen to carry the can for the guy who has been in charge of all of it.
Truth is of course that after Jenkins spent £5m+ on Ki only to have him marginalised and then ignored completely by Laudrup steps were taken to ensure that no manager had that much power again. The next manager was deliberately chosen because he was thought to be controllable (a decision that bit Jenkins on the arse in more ways than one).
And here we are.
This post has been edited by an administrator
This 100% !
1
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:05 - Aug 14 with 1122 views
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:32 - Aug 14 by JackSomething
Thanks for bringing up Ayew and Gomis. Those signings absolutely do not reflect 'returning to what worked for us'. Neither does spending huge money on bringing Ayew and Bony back to the club.
The only transfer window that does suggest that approach is the January 2017 window, which you have to give the club credit for, as it was pretty successful. They didn't stick to that model though.
This is a bizarre attempt to defend the owners and I'd wonder why it wasn't in the thread that Dr Winston made his quoted comment in, but we all know why...
So many weak points I don't know where to start.
This thread deserved one of its own as the other was once again about to be hijacked with posters personal vendettas
Are you crediting Jenkins with. January 2017?? Think about that statement for a while and come back to me.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:48 - Aug 14 by costalotta
Thing is, there is no chatting with you.
And if Monk was return8ng to a pre Laudrup situation how is Andre Ayew that type of signing? Or Gomis? Or Fat Frank. Siggy signed by Monk, but had been here before...brought in by BR.
You really are trying I’ll give you that.
There's no speaking to anyone when they've got a different point of view to the usual trolls on here, or the abuse they give before offering anything like a return on football matters, to which I discuss only.
No one man has ever been responsible for our successes or our failures.
You choose to edit history and only credit the mistakes to Jenkins and the successes to the relevant managers at the time.
If you genuinely can't see how flawed and facking bonkers that is, you're not ever going to be wiling to see past your red mist and own inadequacies.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
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