| Trust Chairman’s Update 19:13 - Sep 5 with 12805 views | Darran |
‘It has been almost three weeks since the last update I provided to our members about events at Swans Trust, at what is a critical time for both the Trust and the Club.
I have some key updates for you around the mediation process that we announced in May and the questions we have asked the football club around the decisions taken over the last few months.
Let me start with an update about the mediation process. In May, we informed our members that we had attempted to engage with the majority owners of Swansea City and other parties (including Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan) through a formal mediation process, beginning with a claim letter that set out the Trust’s legal case in detail and proposed a mediation. Mediation is a voluntary and confidential process in which relevant parties seek to resolve disputes with the assistance of a trained independent and impartial mediator.
Our aim was, and remains, to seek an agreement to settle past differences, subject to members’ approval, with a view to moving ahead together with the task of rebuilding the club and returning it to top level football.
The Trust entered this process in good faith, attempting to resolve all issues without the need for formal court proceedings. Unfortunately, the legal representatives of the majority owners initially refused our offer to mediate, questioning whether it was genuine, and bizarrely accused the Trust of trying to harm the Club.
An initial ’Without Prejudice’ meeting was held with Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan in early June, however there has been no follow up meeting with them or their lawyers, although the Trust was open to the possibility.
The courts have a ‘Practice Direction’, which sets out the guidelines which parties in dispute should follow before they start court proceedings. This includes trying to reach agreement by means such as mediation. The Practice Direction outlines a maximum timeline within which the relevant parties should provide a full written response to the Trust’s claim. The Trust and its legal representatives have provided every opportunity for this to be met, even allowing the maximum possible timeline which is usually reserved for more complex cases than this. Unfortunately, this deadline passed on 20thAugust without a response being received, either from the majority owners or the others.
Since the deadline passed, things have progressed a little. Our legal team were contacted by the legal representatives of the majority owners and, as a result, we are currently in discussions to arrange a meeting between the Trust, the majority owners and other parties within the next few weeks.
As a Trust, we must continue to protect our legal position. As part of the mediation process, the Trust requested access to various pieces of documentation relating to the 2016 sale.These documents have not yet been received. On the advice of our legal team, the Trust board has instructed our lawyers to initiate legal action to obtain access to these documents, unless they are provided within a further 7 days. This is a limited legal action specifically to obtain access to these documents. It is not the same as undertaking legal action relating to the sale itself and its impact on the Trust’s shareholding. We hope those issues can still be resolved as part of the discussions that are scheduled to take place in the next few weeks. However, these documents are important so that the Trust can best advise its members on the next course of action to take, which could mean undertaking legal action relating to the 2016 sale and its impact on the Trust’s position.
I can assure you that we will investigate every option available to us to ensure that we get the right result for the Trust, whichwill only be concluded following a full consultation and ballot of our members. We will, of course, continue to keep you updated as things progress.
As representatives of the fans, it is key that we understand the reasons for decisions made by the Club and gain assurances on the financial management of the Club. In my last update, I said that the Trust had sent a comprehensive list of questions to the majority owners of the Club, to obtain some clarity on the club’s financial position after this summer, understand the reasons for why decisions were made as well as seeking to ensure that the decisions taken are in the best interests of the Club. Many of these questions related to our transfer dealings this summer, but we also sought clarity on our financial obligations in the future, such as the salaries of senior employees. We know that relegation to the Championship means that we will receive considerably less revenue than previously, and we need to cut our cloth accordingly, but without visibility on the current situation we cannot say if the decisions taken were in the Club’s best interests.
The majority owners have responded to our requests and offered to meet with Stuart MacDonald, our Supporter Director, to answer our questions and provide those assurances. That was a positive step. However, the club havealso insisted that before any meeting takes place that an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) was signed by Stuart. This NDA would have prevented Stuart releasing key information into the public domain but, crucially, also stopped him from providing any information to the Trust board. This is unacceptable as it would mean that the Trust board could not gain the reassurances that we needed, plus puts our Supporter Director in an impossible position.
We have advised the majority owners that our Supporter Director will not be signing this document and we are deeply disappointed and angry that it was suggested he should sign in the first place given both Stuart’s position as a Director of the Club (which already brings with it fiduciary duties regarding confidential information being made public) but also our position as a 21% shareholder and representative of the fans. We will continue to push for these answers but not being able to provide them at this time is very disappointing.
Furthermore, the request to sign an NDA arrived just 48 hours after some key commercial information relating to the club was released via a private message exchange on Twitter by a current employee (and former shareholder) with a young supporter, which later entered the public domain. Whilst we welcome all levels of fan engagement by members of the Club’s hierarchy, it is completely inappropriate that the Supporter Director is asked to withhold information from the Trust board whilst others release this information to anyone who asks. Not for the first time, we have expressed our strong opinion that Leigh Dineen’s continued employment at the football club is inappropriate, not least due to his unprofessionalism in this matter.
On a separate note we were pleased to play a part in the competitive pricing for the Carabao Cup tie against Crystal Palace and we commend the club for listening to our viewpoints on this matter. While the result did not go our way, there were some promising debuts for some of our younger players which was pleasing to see.
I would also like to applaud the excellent efforts of Graham Potter, the coaching staff and the playing squad in performing so well at the start of this season. There has also been an obvious change in footballing philosophy on the pitch and this has made watching the Swans a much more enjoyable experience than in recent times.
This is a critical time for this organisation, and the Club as a whole. The Trust is only as strong as its membership and, in the coming weeks, we will be seeking to increase our membership base to provide as strong a voice for the fans as possible. We would welcome your help in getting the message out to fans about the importance of joining and the need for a strong Supporters Trust, especially at this time.
I would like to thank everyone who has joined us this evening and for all members who have already joined for this year. We will now open for any questions’ [Post edited 5 Sep 2018 19:17]
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:36 - Sep 5 with 1333 views | headcleaner |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:14 - Sep 5 by TheResurrection |
Seriously though, WTF....
We had to wait until this shit fans forum to be told, well fack all really.
This should be so simple yet they make it so difficult. I'm now convinced Phil misses the limelight and the chance to step up and speak in front of 20 or 30 older people.
Let's start a new type of communication, hey this may work you know.... Jason, Steve, WTF is going on, call them, text them, email them, get a f#cking answer....
Like this one.... OK you wanted an NDA after agreeing to open up about sensitive information, can you tell us your reasons.....?
Get the answer....
And facking report that.....
Not this pile of nothing bollocks. |
I guess the trust are damned if they do and damned if they don't. ultimately they don't want to hurt the club that's not what they are about and having an endless amount of goodwill will lose public support.
It's difficult when you want to be transparent and honest when the people you are in dispute with 100% totally and utterly ignore you.
Legal action is needed but there are processes and avenues that the law of the land will want to see have been exhausted. If the trust can show they've been nothing but reasonable and fair-minded then it will strengthen their case with us the fans. I think there are many of us who are frustrated with the standoff and politeness of it all and how many times can the trust bend over and then get laughed at by the likes of Jenkins morgan and Dineen. They need bringing down a peg or two for sure and their utter contempt for the trust says what type of people they are. Do you trust them? Have they been totally honest and have the best interests of the club at heart?
No point in snidey comms it's not helpful and I don't think even you believe they are only involved for personal gain or ego unlike some of our directors |  | | |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:37 - Sep 5 with 1328 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:34 - Sep 5 by E20Jack |
... and yet we have people on here, including Trust reps, criticising the decision not to fork out £7m on a Championship defensive midfielder??
Even more odd considering it’s clear they have no idea of the financials.
A very dangerous game. |
They don’t want anyone to know the financials. I’m definitely no expert, but I get a feeling I know why....
It’s been managed by c*nts. |  | | |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:38 - Sep 5 with 1315 views | jasper_T |
Sounds like a mistake to try to get Dineen sacked, he's the best bet for getting the information they're after. |  | | |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:41 - Sep 5 with 1276 views | ScottishEddie |
Business as usual then... | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:43 - Sep 5 with 1253 views | ItchySphincter |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:38 - Sep 5 by jasper_T |
Sounds like a mistake to try to get Dineen sacked, he's the best bet for getting the information they're after. |
Good point Jasp.
It is weird that someone at the club has arranged for him to have a bit of a slap for his constant "look at me" posts on social media.
It's as if he's a stooge for the owners. They push him out front to make some ill-judged facebook comments and sit back whilst he takes a few pelters. |  |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:45 - Sep 5 with 1217 views | E20Jack |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:37 - Sep 5 by 34dfgdf54 |
They don’t want anyone to know the financials. I’m definitely no expert, but I get a feeling I know why....
It’s been managed by c*nts. |
Because they don’t see eye to eye would be my guess. Let’s not forget the Trust are volunteer amateurs, I would also be a bit hesitant in handing over sensitive information to them. It is disappointing to see the relationship like this though.
The Trust need out until they can become majority owners that much is clear and has been for years. They don’t belong in a corporate world as a minority partner. |  |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:46 - Sep 5 with 1217 views | Wingstandwood |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:37 - Sep 5 by 34dfgdf54 |
They don’t want anyone to know the financials. I’m definitely no expert, but I get a feeling I know why....
It’s been managed by c*nts. |
Releasing the financials would IMO be wise because people (rightly or wrongly?) will undoubtedly jump to a natural assumption that an Oyston-esque situation may be going on behind the scenes! Many would naturally think that something really, really, really dodgy may be going on due to the reluctance and lack of transparency from a gang with previous for treachery and dirty dealing?
A case of money siphoning disguised as hyper-bumped up wages? And what preposterous over-inflated wages did that Oyston earn hey? |  |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:46 - Sep 5 with 1207 views | _ |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:36 - Sep 5 by headcleaner |
I guess the trust are damned if they do and damned if they don't. ultimately they don't want to hurt the club that's not what they are about and having an endless amount of goodwill will lose public support.
It's difficult when you want to be transparent and honest when the people you are in dispute with 100% totally and utterly ignore you.
Legal action is needed but there are processes and avenues that the law of the land will want to see have been exhausted. If the trust can show they've been nothing but reasonable and fair-minded then it will strengthen their case with us the fans. I think there are many of us who are frustrated with the standoff and politeness of it all and how many times can the trust bend over and then get laughed at by the likes of Jenkins morgan and Dineen. They need bringing down a peg or two for sure and their utter contempt for the trust says what type of people they are. Do you trust them? Have they been totally honest and have the best interests of the club at heart?
No point in snidey comms it's not helpful and I don't think even you believe they are only involved for personal gain or ego unlike some of our directors |
I do believe Phil does enjoy these nights a bit too much. I do.
I voted him back as well but I'm a bit gutted right now about that.
The lines of communication between the Trust and the Americans should have been sorted years ago. And every time the Trust didn't get a question answered they should have gone public with it.
We still have no idea as to Stuart's worth and what he does, says, thinks, that's not going to get better, is it?
I'm guessing the interview convened by the Americans may have been arranged because of this stupid fans forum, so that to me states they can be smoked out - well facking get on with it then.
Get some answers, some proper answers and let the fans know. Oh, but not these forums!! |  |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:47 - Sep 5 with 1193 views | _ |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:37 - Sep 5 by 34dfgdf54 |
They don’t want anyone to know the financials. I’m definitely no expert, but I get a feeling I know why....
It’s been managed by c*nts. |
What, you mean apart from the Trust Director? | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:49 - Sep 5 with 1168 views | awayjack |
Sadly this confirms what a growing number of fans suspected. What they say in public is very different from their actions around the mediation process, sharing finacial information and generally not engaging with Trust members. Shows the contempt they have for the Trust and the fans.
Whilst the Trust play by the rules and follow process, are they confident these guys will also play by the rules? Are there steps the Trust or other fans group can take whilst this process drags on:
- Take steps (injunction) that stops any inappropriate transfer of funds, charges over assets or material debt outside normal business.
- Increase media awareness so press and fans are clear on what’s going on.
- Advise football authorities. There are rules around PL payments and EFL administration of clubs over and above basic corporate legal governance. They are sensitive about cases like Blackpool, and put additional protection in place.
- Forensic financial review by and Independent auditor. No disrespect to SM but there are some serious experts that go way beyond the routine audit to identify issues. They are already governed by strict confidentiality.
Just a few suggestions and I’m sure reps on the Trust have thought about.
Worrying times. |  | | |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:50 - Sep 5 with 1165 views | Shaky |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:45 - Sep 5 by E20Jack |
Because they don’t see eye to eye would be my guess. Let’s not forget the Trust are volunteer amateurs, I would also be a bit hesitant in handing over sensitive information to them. It is disappointing to see the relationship like this though.
The Trust need out until they can become majority owners that much is clear and has been for years. They don’t belong in a corporate world as a minority partner. |
You would be hesitant handing over sensitive info to the Trust?
And yet in the fifth post in this thread you said
". . .regarding salaries is severely disappointing. I hope the appropriate information is released soon. "
Pro tip for you Dim; try not to reverse course 180 degrees in the same thread within the hour. |  |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:50 - Sep 5 with 1159 views | Darran |
This is brilliant. Everything from tonight’s statement is all the Trusts fault.
Shut things down he said.  | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:52 - Sep 5 with 1128 views | E20Jack |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:50 - Sep 5 by Shaky |
You would be hesitant handing over sensitive info to the Trust?
And yet in the fifth post in this thread you said
". . .regarding salaries is severely disappointing. I hope the appropriate information is released soon. "
Pro tip for you Dim; try not to reverse course 180 degrees in the same thread within the hour. |
Yes. What is so hard for you to understand this time?
As a fan I am disappointed that the information will not be shared. I would like to know who has taken pay cuts. I understand why they wouldn’t though.
Pro tip for you, try and understand basic things before making yourself look a plum again.
As you were. | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:53 - Sep 5 with 1126 views | jack2jack |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 19:33 - Sep 5 by E20Jack |
Not sure what they have lied about but that NDA regarding salaries is severely disappointing. I hope the appropriate information is released soon. |
I believe that K&L have said they want to enter into dialogue with The trust, they clearly aren't keen based on the above statement.
So who do you believe. |  | | |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:54 - Sep 5 with 1116 views | Darran |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:53 - Sep 5 by jack2jack |
I believe that K&L have said they want to enter into dialogue with The trust, they clearly aren't keen based on the above statement.
So who do you believe. |
He won’t give you a proper answer to that. | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:54 - Sep 5 with 1111 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:53 - Sep 5 by jack2jack |
I believe that K&L have said they want to enter into dialogue with The trust, they clearly aren't keen based on the above statement.
So who do you believe. |
Without lawyers aswell apparently?
Cretins | | | |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:54 - Sep 5 with 1105 views | _ |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:49 - Sep 5 by awayjack |
Sadly this confirms what a growing number of fans suspected. What they say in public is very different from their actions around the mediation process, sharing finacial information and generally not engaging with Trust members. Shows the contempt they have for the Trust and the fans.
Whilst the Trust play by the rules and follow process, are they confident these guys will also play by the rules? Are there steps the Trust or other fans group can take whilst this process drags on:
- Take steps (injunction) that stops any inappropriate transfer of funds, charges over assets or material debt outside normal business.
- Increase media awareness so press and fans are clear on what’s going on.
- Advise football authorities. There are rules around PL payments and EFL administration of clubs over and above basic corporate legal governance. They are sensitive about cases like Blackpool, and put additional protection in place.
- Forensic financial review by and Independent auditor. No disrespect to SM but there are some serious experts that go way beyond the routine audit to identify issues. They are already governed by strict confidentiality.
Just a few suggestions and I’m sure reps on the Trust have thought about.
Worrying times. |
By the Trust playing by the rules do you mean, the Trust doing nothing?
Whilst, they, of course, make huge financial decisions to deal with a huge wage bill and a 50% drop in income? | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:56 - Sep 5 with 1084 views | E20Jack |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:53 - Sep 5 by jack2jack |
I believe that K&L have said they want to enter into dialogue with The trust, they clearly aren't keen based on the above statement.
So who do you believe. |
Both.
The Trust just said they agreed to arrange a meeting with the Trust Director.
The Trust didn’t like the terms of the dialogue though. | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:59 - Sep 5 with 1055 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:56 - Sep 5 by E20Jack |
Both.
The Trust just said they agreed to arrange a meeting with the Trust Director.
The Trust didn’t like the terms of the dialogue though. |
Interesting, what were the terms? |  |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:59 - Sep 5 with 1053 views | Darran |
Breaking news from tonight’s Forum.
Directors of the club (other than Kaplan and Levien) are not told of how much is received in transfer fees or how much we spend on a player. | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:59 - Sep 5 with 1048 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Ian Roberts supplying forum updates on twitter.
No director at club other than Kaplan and Levein have knowledge of how much we spend on a player or how much we receive for a player. | | | |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 21:00 - Sep 5 with 1046 views | vetchonian |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:28 - Sep 5 by TheResurrection |
This fool is a prime example why the Americans may not want to disclose sensitive information. Phil uses Darren as his mouthpiece whenever he wants something shutting down or, not so discretely, getting out there. This site bans and censors people.
There's no wonder they don't want club information in the hands of this Dick. |
Or maybe they don't want everyone to find out how much they pay ypu | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 21:00 - Sep 5 with 1041 views | Darran |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:59 - Sep 5 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Interesting, what were the terms? |
The Trust Director doesn’t tell a soul about it. | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 21:01 - Sep 5 with 1026 views | E20Jack |
| Trust Chairman’s Update on 20:59 - Sep 5 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Interesting, what were the terms? |
That he signed an NDA. | |
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| Trust Chairman’s Update on 21:01 - Sep 5 with 1026 views | majorraglan |
With hindsight the Trust may have done things differently, but it is what it is. To an extent, the Trust is a reflection of its membership who were balloted and who elect the officials. The recent Trust elections have seen some changes at the top and no doubt the dynamic has changed considerably.
It’s interesting to hear that the new/old owners didn’t reply by the deadline, but that there has now been contact, wasn’t there a mention of something in the press article this week?
In terms of the ND document, I personally think that is shocking, surely the Trust has a significant shareholder have a right to know what’s going on. I would have thought the issue wouldn’t be the disclosure of the players wages which are subject of speculation in lots of different places, the players agents who are quite often trying to engineer wages know their own clients salaries.
Whilst it may seem to some slow and ponderous, the Trust has to go through the steps and follow due process, failure to do that may result in adverse inferences in Court. The Trust has to be seen to be reasonable and beyond reproach in everything it does.
A lot of people out there are quick to point the finger and critisce and I am sure with hindsight the Trust may have done some things differently. I think it’s important we recognise that all the people concerned with the Trust are volunteers who give up their own and their family’s time, it’s a big commitment and probably very stressful for them. I think we should acknowledge this commitment and say thank you. | | | |
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