| Corona Virus 22:39 - Mar 7 with 437656 views | SgorioFruit |
Sorry for new thread,
But how bad do you lot reckon it’s going to get here in the UK?
I just been watching the news. Looking nasty in Italy. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 17:35 - May 25 with 2216 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Corona Virus on 17:29 - May 25 by Swanjaxs |
I gave up reading his posts because they are boring as fùck. |
That as well. |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 18:28 - May 25 with 2178 views | DJack |
| Corona Virus on 11:35 - May 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
Did you bother to check out the sponsors and Doctors running this study?
NIH, the people who wrote the crap HCQ VA study are sponsoring this study.
8 Doctors are being paid by Gilead the creator & manufacturer of Remdesivir and one is being paid other big pharmaceuticals including Smith Kline.
Of course we can expect a completely unbiased study from these people can't we? |
When Remdesivir was touted (by others) after some "positive" anecdotal evidence Gilead were amongst the very first to play it down and request that everyone waits for some large scale trials. They did say that they would produce loads of it so that if it turned out well then they'd be ready (The cynic in me also knows that Governments would buy shit tonnes in advance "just in case" just like the UK did with Azithromycin). Someone somewhere pays for these studies and it is usually the pharma industry. As long as they follow the professional and scientific standards for their testing regime then that is ok as that is what has previously brought medicine to the public.
On another note you've not replied to my point of your cherry picking of data... |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Corona Virus on 18:58 - May 25 with 2162 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 18:28 - May 25 by DJack |
When Remdesivir was touted (by others) after some "positive" anecdotal evidence Gilead were amongst the very first to play it down and request that everyone waits for some large scale trials. They did say that they would produce loads of it so that if it turned out well then they'd be ready (The cynic in me also knows that Governments would buy shit tonnes in advance "just in case" just like the UK did with Azithromycin). Someone somewhere pays for these studies and it is usually the pharma industry. As long as they follow the professional and scientific standards for their testing regime then that is ok as that is what has previously brought medicine to the public.
On another note you've not replied to my point of your cherry picking of data... |
Which one, I must have missed it. |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 19:46 - May 25 with 2126 views | DJack |
| Corona Virus on 18:58 - May 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
Which one, I must have missed it. |
I suspected that it was so...
16:41
"Whoa ther you are cherry picking data. Figure 2 highlights your fact (graph E) and states that for ECMO the placebo scored best...in all other areas (graphs A - D) inluding the overall figure the drug provided a better outcome. These figures are proportional outcomes." | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Corona Virus on 21:00 - May 25 with 2086 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 19:46 - May 25 by DJack |
I suspected that it was so...
16:41
"Whoa ther you are cherry picking data. Figure 2 highlights your fact (graph E) and states that for ECMO the placebo scored best...in all other areas (graphs A - D) inluding the overall figure the drug provided a better outcome. These figures are proportional outcomes." |
I admit I missed that, it shows that Remdesivir is actually worse than doing nothing when the patients are already ventilated.
Although I have to admit to not understanding those graphs.
Graph E purports to show the proportion recovered as 0.5 and yet it shows on day 33 zero "at risk" for both groups, which it also shows for all the others as well.
Does Zero at risk mean they have recovered, or not? | | | |
| Corona Virus on 21:12 - May 25 with 2076 views | Cooperman |
In other news my wife reckons that I've got Covid toe. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 00:28 - May 26 with 2005 views | controversial_jack |
| Corona Virus on 21:12 - May 25 by Cooperman |
In other news my wife reckons that I've got Covid toe. |
My wife has camels toe. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 07:34 - May 26 with 1917 views | dickythorpe |
| Corona Virus on 19:28 - May 22 by sP7qupUf |
He is the Ki of the Tory government. Both have the same response in a crisis. |
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| Corona Virus on 09:36 - May 26 with 1868 views | WarwickHunt |
| Corona Virus on 17:29 - May 25 by Swanjaxs |
I gave up reading his posts because they are boring as fùck. |
Almost makes you yearn for his achingly predictable “the ref hates us” posts. |  | | |
| Corona Virus on 13:24 - May 26 with 1803 views | Professor |
WHO have terminated the hydroxychloroquine trial due to safety concerns. A Fan's Dad was unavailable for comment. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 13:44 - May 26 with 1787 views | monmouth |
| Corona Virus on 13:24 - May 26 by Professor |
WHO have terminated the hydroxychloroquine trial due to safety concerns. A Fan's Dad was unavailable for comment. |
They are wrong. Obviously. |  |
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| Corona Virus on 15:02 - May 26 with 1759 views | Professor |
| Corona Virus on 13:44 - May 26 by monmouth |
They are wrong. Obviously. |
They are not really. Whole thing is driven by a French charlatan and Trump. AFD's other suggestions like Zinc and antibiotics are probably useful as supportive therapies to help reduce levels of SARS CoV2 or reduce Covid 19 mortality. None are anything like a cure or prophylactic. Veterinary experience with coronaviruses in chickens in pigs are that vaccine-based control is the only real answer long-term | | | |
| Corona Virus on 15:04 - May 26 with 1757 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 13:24 - May 26 by Professor |
WHO have terminated the hydroxychloroquine trial due to safety concerns. A Fan's Dad was unavailable for comment. |
No I am not unavailable for comment, my comment is this.
They have stated that they have no issues with their own patients in the clinical trial.
So instead of suspending the trial they should have continued the the trial while testing the patients to get real time data and not a retrospective study.
As discussed with Djack the study on Remdesivir which showed it had problems with ventilated patients didn't worry anybody as it has just now been cleared for use by the NHS.
It probably won't be long before the WHO asks for a worldwide ban on using HCQ for treating COVID-19 patients. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 15:06 - May 26 with 1751 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 15:04 - May 26 by A_Fans_Dad |
No I am not unavailable for comment, my comment is this.
They have stated that they have no issues with their own patients in the clinical trial.
So instead of suspending the trial they should have continued the the trial while testing the patients to get real time data and not a retrospective study.
As discussed with Djack the study on Remdesivir which showed it had problems with ventilated patients didn't worry anybody as it has just now been cleared for use by the NHS.
It probably won't be long before the WHO asks for a worldwide ban on using HCQ for treating COVID-19 patients. |
By the way are you aware that China has bribed the WHO with $2Billion over the next 2 years to "fight COVID-19" to offset President Trump's threat to withold the US's $400Million? | | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:33 - May 26 with 1698 views | DJack |
| Corona Virus on 21:00 - May 25 by A_Fans_Dad |
I admit I missed that, it shows that Remdesivir is actually worse than doing nothing when the patients are already ventilated.
Although I have to admit to not understanding those graphs.
Graph E purports to show the proportion recovered as 0.5 and yet it shows on day 33 zero "at risk" for both groups, which it also shows for all the others as well.
Does Zero at risk mean they have recovered, or not? |
WRONG only Graph5 5 - ECMO.
Graph 4 - High flow O2 or non invasive mechanical ventilation Remdesivir was marginally better than placebo and IN ALL OTHER CASES IT WAS BETTER.
It is well known that anyone who goes on a mechanical ventilator has a slim chance of recovery...whatever the reason/illness for their ventilation
From the paper extra detail to asist you with the figures...
"Results
Patients
Of the 1107 patients who were assessed for eligibility, 1063 underwent randomization; 541 were assigned to the remdesivir group and 522 to the placebo group (Figure 1). Of those assigned to receive remdesivir, 531 patients (98.2%) received the treatment as assigned. Forty-nine patients had remdesivir treatment discontinued before day 10 because of an adverse event or a serious adverse event other than death (36 patients) or because the patient withdrew consent (13). Of those assigned to receive placebo, 518 patients (99.2%) received placebo as assigned. Fifty-three patients discontinued placebo before day 10 because of an adverse event or a serious adverse event other than death (36 patients), because the patient withdrew consent (15), or because the patient was found to be ineligible for trial enrollment (2).
As of April 28, 2020, a total of 391 patients in the remdesivir group and 340 in the placebo group had completed the trial through day 29, recovered, or died. Eight patients who received remdesivir and 9 who received placebo terminated their participation in the trial before day 29. There were 132 patients in the remdesivir group and 169 in the placebo group who had not recovered and had not completed the day 29 follow-up visit. The analysis population included 1059 patients for whom we have at least some postbaseline data available (538 in the remdesivir group and 521 in the placebo group). Four of the 1063 patients were not included in the primary analysis because no postbaseline data were available at the time of the database freeze." | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Corona Virus on 18:31 - May 26 with 1665 views | monmouth |
| Corona Virus on 15:02 - May 26 by Professor |
They are not really. Whole thing is driven by a French charlatan and Trump. AFD's other suggestions like Zinc and antibiotics are probably useful as supportive therapies to help reduce levels of SARS CoV2 or reduce Covid 19 mortality. None are anything like a cure or prophylactic. Veterinary experience with coronaviruses in chickens in pigs are that vaccine-based control is the only real answer long-term |
We need a dripping with irony smiley | |
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| Corona Virus on 13:43 - May 27 with 1570 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 18:31 - May 26 by monmouth |
We need a dripping with irony smiley |
It has started France bans HCQ for COVID-19 treatment.
Will the poor countries follow the west? | | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:05 - May 27 with 1518 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 17:33 - May 26 by DJack |
WRONG only Graph5 5 - ECMO.
Graph 4 - High flow O2 or non invasive mechanical ventilation Remdesivir was marginally better than placebo and IN ALL OTHER CASES IT WAS BETTER.
It is well known that anyone who goes on a mechanical ventilator has a slim chance of recovery...whatever the reason/illness for their ventilation
From the paper extra detail to asist you with the figures...
"Results
Patients
Of the 1107 patients who were assessed for eligibility, 1063 underwent randomization; 541 were assigned to the remdesivir group and 522 to the placebo group (Figure 1). Of those assigned to receive remdesivir, 531 patients (98.2%) received the treatment as assigned. Forty-nine patients had remdesivir treatment discontinued before day 10 because of an adverse event or a serious adverse event other than death (36 patients) or because the patient withdrew consent (13). Of those assigned to receive placebo, 518 patients (99.2%) received placebo as assigned. Fifty-three patients discontinued placebo before day 10 because of an adverse event or a serious adverse event other than death (36 patients), because the patient withdrew consent (15), or because the patient was found to be ineligible for trial enrollment (2).
As of April 28, 2020, a total of 391 patients in the remdesivir group and 340 in the placebo group had completed the trial through day 29, recovered, or died. Eight patients who received remdesivir and 9 who received placebo terminated their participation in the trial before day 29. There were 132 patients in the remdesivir group and 169 in the placebo group who had not recovered and had not completed the day 29 follow-up visit. The analysis population included 1059 patients for whom we have at least some postbaseline data available (538 in the remdesivir group and 521 in the placebo group). Four of the 1063 patients were not included in the primary analysis because no postbaseline data were available at the time of the database freeze." |
How can my question be wrong?
I had already stated graph E ie 5 was the adverse Graph.
But the At Risk data is not clear as it shows in all cases Zero at risk on day 33, which I assume means that none are still being ventilated.
What I find extremely unusual is this part of the study.
"The Kaplan—Meier estimates of mortality by 14 days were 7.1% and 11.9% in the remdesivir and placebo groups, respectively (Table 2). The Kaplan—Meier estimates of mortality by 28 days are not reported in this preliminary analysis, given the large number of patients that had yet to complete day 29 visits."
I thought that was what Kaplan—Meier estimates were used for because all the data is not in.
But they do show the Graphs up to day 30.
Although the results of this study were used to persuade the FDA to authorise it's use, there are no final mortality rates for either group.
Even by May 22nd when this report was published there were still no results.
I looked at the previous studies of Remdesivir and it does not make good reading. The Ebola study showed 53% mortality rate compared to other antivirals at 35%.
The first study for COVID-19 was of 53 patients, mortality after 18 days was 13%, twice the rate of this study at 14 days.
So it will be interesting to see the final study report, if it ever gets published.
As to Remdevisir being slightly better than nothing for the 1st 3 groups it is not saying much.
It will also be interesting to see how it performs when more widely used, when the studies are not sponsored by Gilead. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:45 - May 27 with 1483 views | dickythorpe |
412 more deaths!!! That's far higher than this time last week surely? | | | |
| Corona Virus on 17:57 - May 27 with 1477 views | longlostjack |
Isn’t 80% of it produced in India? |  |
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| Corona Virus on 18:03 - May 27 with 1469 views | Scotia |
Have you read that article? I've only flicked through it, but it says:-
I’m speechless,” Amar Jesani, a physician and Mumbai-based expert in medical ethics, told The Telegraph. “We have no access to the ICMR study data to assess their claims. They should make the data and reports public.”
That a bit worrying and it doesn't seem to have universal approval? [Post edited 28 May 2020 11:42]
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| Corona Virus on 18:12 - May 27 with 1463 views | DJack |
| Corona Virus on 17:05 - May 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
How can my question be wrong?
I had already stated graph E ie 5 was the adverse Graph.
But the At Risk data is not clear as it shows in all cases Zero at risk on day 33, which I assume means that none are still being ventilated.
What I find extremely unusual is this part of the study.
"The Kaplan—Meier estimates of mortality by 14 days were 7.1% and 11.9% in the remdesivir and placebo groups, respectively (Table 2). The Kaplan—Meier estimates of mortality by 28 days are not reported in this preliminary analysis, given the large number of patients that had yet to complete day 29 visits."
I thought that was what Kaplan—Meier estimates were used for because all the data is not in.
But they do show the Graphs up to day 30.
Although the results of this study were used to persuade the FDA to authorise it's use, there are no final mortality rates for either group.
Even by May 22nd when this report was published there were still no results.
I looked at the previous studies of Remdesivir and it does not make good reading. The Ebola study showed 53% mortality rate compared to other antivirals at 35%.
The first study for COVID-19 was of 53 patients, mortality after 18 days was 13%, twice the rate of this study at 14 days.
So it will be interesting to see the final study report, if it ever gets published.
As to Remdevisir being slightly better than nothing for the 1st 3 groups it is not saying much.
It will also be interesting to see how it performs when more widely used, when the studies are not sponsored by Gilead. |
It's quite noticeable that your ability to follow studies varies by what you are are posting and what position you are defending. It has been plain to see for quite some time that you are not arguing in good faith and/or you are getting your "data/position" from other, unrevealed, sources. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Corona Virus on 19:36 - May 27 with 1433 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Corona Virus on 18:12 - May 27 by DJack |
It's quite noticeable that your ability to follow studies varies by what you are are posting and what position you are defending. It has been plain to see for quite some time that you are not arguing in good faith and/or you are getting your "data/position" from other, unrevealed, sources. |
I look at a study and then research both it and the Drug to see what it's history says. I don't like what I am seeing about Gilead and it's connections to various organisations.
We will probably find out how good it really is at some point. | | | |
| Corona Virus on 21:09 - May 27 with 1402 views | Swansea93 |
| Corona Virus on 17:45 - May 27 by dickythorpe |
412 more deaths!!! That's far higher than this time last week surely? |
More than likely due to the delay over the bank holiday. | |
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