| Millwall fans behaviour today ? 19:32 - Dec 5 with 5804 views | KeithHaynes |
Any thoughts ? |  |
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 22:33 - Dec 5 with 760 views | jasper_T |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 22:02 - Dec 5 by Highjack |
As a proud socialist/communist surely you can understand the reaction if a black African man who is on a reported £80,000 a week based on his hard work, skill and talent alone performs a gesture moaning about oppression and equality in front of several thousand people whose average yearly wage would only pay for him for about 3 days? |
Astonishing stuff. |  | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 01:52 - Dec 6 with 691 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 21:26 - Dec 5 by dobjack2 |
Are you g@ tying to say that there was no racism either in football grounds or Britain or in the 70’s or 80’s or that that the Brexit campaign has made some people think that it’s ok to have racist views because of some of the posters and things that some politicians said? |
Sorry I didn't mean to suggest there was no racism in the 80's etc, there was a far right uprising and the NF tried to recruit in the football firms more prominent at the time. Combat 18 in Chelsea and Millwall was rife and has never fully gone away.
But, until 4 years ago society had moved on a long way since then and a lot of work had gone into keeping a lid on these nasty undercurrents. Racist remarks, chants from the crowd were rightly frowned upon and fans were fully aware this wasn't acceptable.
But when this lot got into power and with the advent of zero accountability at the top an absolute free for all has ensued below.
Luckily, and hopefully, when you do see the absolute state of the main perpetrators they are now in their late 50's, 60's and sadly older and seemingly having one last hurrah.
Well that hurrah can't end quick enough.
You do see these lads still have the odd younger lieutenants but generally it's nothing like on the same scale as before - or that was the case until Brexit.
Where we turn next as a society is anyone's guess. For me, I'm looking to and hoping Joe Biden will be the start of a new dawn and we'll get back more to pre 2016.
But I don't think we'll heal as a society for quite some time. I hope I am wrong.
And for me, that's what BLM is all about. Just a coming together, one and all. Not the crap Dr P is trying to feed you. Shame on him. |  | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 02:00 - Dec 6 with 689 views | Highjack |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 22:20 - Dec 5 by 9MilesHigh |
Oh ffs
does it bother you that much a black man earns this kind of money? They're not doing it for themselves you clown, but for the people just like them who didn't have the talent, didn't get the breaks and are shat on, institutionally and made sure society isn't designed with them in mind. |
If you’d bothered to read it properly you may have understood that I said he thoroughly deserves his wage and success because he’s worked hard at his career. So I’m not entirely sure how the bloody hell you arrived at the quite frankly mental conclusion that I’m somehow bothered by a black man earning that sort of money. Read the post before jumping in with such religious nonsensical ardour and you won’t look as silly.
As for the rest of it.
“They're not doing it for themselves you clown, but for the people just like them who didn't have the talent, didn't get the breaks and are shat on, institutionally and made sure society isn't designed with them in mind.”
Welcome to the cliche factory. You’ve described the vast majority of humanity there. |  |
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 02:25 - Dec 6 with 687 views | Badlands |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 22:17 - Dec 5 by dobjack2 |
What is your issue with footballers making an anti racist protest? |
It's racism pure and simple.
Those who booed and those who support them would happily make monkey gestures and throw bananas on to the pitch if they could (& did in the past).
They are scum. |  |
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 02:40 - Dec 6 with 683 views | Jack59 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 21:02 - Dec 5 by trampie |
I just wonder what would happen with our lot. |
I've been supporting the Swans for over 60 years and I despise racism and discrimination of any kind, but I will be booing when I attend matches if I see the players making political gestures like this.
Keep politics out of sport. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 10:21 - Dec 6 with 610 views | dobjack2 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 02:40 - Dec 6 by Jack59 |
I've been supporting the Swans for over 60 years and I despise racism and discrimination of any kind, but I will be booing when I attend matches if I see the players making political gestures like this.
Keep politics out of sport. |
You do realise that your post reads “I’m not racist but .... “
Black Lives Matter was a protest against racism in society. It started in America but racism exists world wide. One of the effects of raising the issue of racism in this country has been to embolden those that hold racist views and those that will make racist remarks to hurt people.
The racial abuse that Black footballers get online has increased since Black Lives Matters protests began. Players that have spoken out about racism like Raheem Sterling, Wilfred Zaha and Bayo are getting more racial abuse than ever.
A Black footballer misses a penalty- cue racial abuse online either explicitly or by using emojis of monkeys and bananas in the abuse.
You may not agree with the Black Lives Matter movement or the actions of some involved in it but you are missing the point. The players are protesting against racism and give racism the red card is explicitly about racism in football.
What is your reaction - to say you’ll boo footballers protesting about racism. What message do you think that predominately white people booing players making a protest against racism sends to players who have been racially abused? I don’t think it sends a message that you support them in their battle against the abuse that Black footballers face simply because of the colour of their skin.
All I would ask is that you read some of the articles about the abuse that Black and other non-White footballers receive and try to think of things from their perspective. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 10:48 - Dec 6 with 595 views | jasper_T |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 02:40 - Dec 6 by Jack59 |
I've been supporting the Swans for over 60 years and I despise racism and discrimination of any kind, but I will be booing when I attend matches if I see the players making political gestures like this.
Keep politics out of sport. |
Booing players taking a knee is making a political statement. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 11:21 - Dec 6 with 579 views | dobjack2 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 01:52 - Dec 6 by 9MilesHigh |
Sorry I didn't mean to suggest there was no racism in the 80's etc, there was a far right uprising and the NF tried to recruit in the football firms more prominent at the time. Combat 18 in Chelsea and Millwall was rife and has never fully gone away.
But, until 4 years ago society had moved on a long way since then and a lot of work had gone into keeping a lid on these nasty undercurrents. Racist remarks, chants from the crowd were rightly frowned upon and fans were fully aware this wasn't acceptable.
But when this lot got into power and with the advent of zero accountability at the top an absolute free for all has ensued below.
Luckily, and hopefully, when you do see the absolute state of the main perpetrators they are now in their late 50's, 60's and sadly older and seemingly having one last hurrah.
Well that hurrah can't end quick enough.
You do see these lads still have the odd younger lieutenants but generally it's nothing like on the same scale as before - or that was the case until Brexit.
Where we turn next as a society is anyone's guess. For me, I'm looking to and hoping Joe Biden will be the start of a new dawn and we'll get back more to pre 2016.
But I don't think we'll heal as a society for quite some time. I hope I am wrong.
And for me, that's what BLM is all about. Just a coming together, one and all. Not the crap Dr P is trying to feed you. Shame on him. |
No problem I misread your comment.
I don’t think racism has ever gone away from society; some people haven’t accepted that racism is unacceptable they just realised that it was unacceptable to be openly racist.
I do agree that the way irresponsible politicians stoked up xenophobia for their own ends in the Brexit debate has also increased racism in this country.
Racism in football seems to have moved from overt racism in grounds onto social media where it is invisible to the majority of people, but more personal to the players targeted.
If footballers want to raise awareness of racism and protest against the racist abuse that Black footballers can receive I can’t see why any reasonable person would object. | | | |
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:01 - Dec 6 with 560 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 11:21 - Dec 6 by dobjack2 |
No problem I misread your comment.
I don’t think racism has ever gone away from society; some people haven’t accepted that racism is unacceptable they just realised that it was unacceptable to be openly racist.
I do agree that the way irresponsible politicians stoked up xenophobia for their own ends in the Brexit debate has also increased racism in this country.
Racism in football seems to have moved from overt racism in grounds onto social media where it is invisible to the majority of people, but more personal to the players targeted.
If footballers want to raise awareness of racism and protest against the racist abuse that Black footballers can receive I can’t see why any reasonable person would object. |
Of course it hasn't ever 'gone away', John Barnes speaks a lot of sense and understands there's racism in all of us. In me, you, it's natural in many ways. Many fans made monkey chants in the early days, it's awful to think about that these days and I'm not making any excuses, but some would have more real racist intent than others. For most it was just a way of getting an edge in the game by fair means or foul.
Football is a strange environment, very male, working class dominated and its culture springs off into many directions. The tribalism, the clothes, the music, the misogyny, the racism
I think it's probably wise to be honest about where we all stand on this subject. This is not 1988 and a lot of us ain't teenagers or kids any more. If you did it back then, and I am going to use this word even though some will call it anything but - but "innocently" - and would never again, for whatever reason, like you've grown up or you've realised that's a human being out there, not "the opposition" , then you're not still part of the problem.
It was easy back then to attack the first thing a fan deemed as a weakness - fat, tall, ginger, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, big nose, long hair gypo and of course black.
Football has a lot to answer for, but the problems with real racism is much deeper and the problems are very difficult to fix.
I tried to engage John Barnes on Twitter about black managers and his argument is institutionally black players don't get the breaks - that's what he calls real racism, not that angry youngster at the football 30 years ago or even some idiot on social media who lost his rag and was disgusting in that moment.
But then the black manager thing is really hard for me and I think a lot of it is down to communication and leadership. Black people don't sit in the offices of power so there's a huge lack of role models. The role models black people get are rappers, gangster rappers even, so when they get a few quid from playing football they don't always adopt leadership qualities in the dressing room, they can isolate themselves and can appear arrogant.
Now, not every black player and that's John Barnes' argument. He says there must be enough black players in dressing rooms who are looking to progress and become leaders and they are not getting the chance.
I know I was generalising but it was based on what I heard a lot over the years from people within SCFC so there's truth in it.
TRUE racism belongs in keeping the black race in low paid jobs or racketeering in the streets, that's where the issue needs sorting but there's zero chance with these b@stards in charge. [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 12:09]
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:09 - Dec 6 with 547 views | angryjack |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 10:48 - Dec 6 by jasper_T |
Booing players taking a knee is making a political statement. |
The time has come to stop now,they been doing IG since June,,blm are a racist organisation themselves | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:10 - Dec 6 with 545 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:01 - Dec 6 by 9MilesHigh |
Of course it hasn't ever 'gone away', John Barnes speaks a lot of sense and understands there's racism in all of us. In me, you, it's natural in many ways. Many fans made monkey chants in the early days, it's awful to think about that these days and I'm not making any excuses, but some would have more real racist intent than others. For most it was just a way of getting an edge in the game by fair means or foul.
Football is a strange environment, very male, working class dominated and its culture springs off into many directions. The tribalism, the clothes, the music, the misogyny, the racism
I think it's probably wise to be honest about where we all stand on this subject. This is not 1988 and a lot of us ain't teenagers or kids any more. If you did it back then, and I am going to use this word even though some will call it anything but - but "innocently" - and would never again, for whatever reason, like you've grown up or you've realised that's a human being out there, not "the opposition" , then you're not still part of the problem.
It was easy back then to attack the first thing a fan deemed as a weakness - fat, tall, ginger, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, big nose, long hair gypo and of course black.
Football has a lot to answer for, but the problems with real racism is much deeper and the problems are very difficult to fix.
I tried to engage John Barnes on Twitter about black managers and his argument is institutionally black players don't get the breaks - that's what he calls real racism, not that angry youngster at the football 30 years ago or even some idiot on social media who lost his rag and was disgusting in that moment.
But then the black manager thing is really hard for me and I think a lot of it is down to communication and leadership. Black people don't sit in the offices of power so there's a huge lack of role models. The role models black people get are rappers, gangster rappers even, so when they get a few quid from playing football they don't always adopt leadership qualities in the dressing room, they can isolate themselves and can appear arrogant.
Now, not every black player and that's John Barnes' argument. He says there must be enough black players in dressing rooms who are looking to progress and become leaders and they are not getting the chance.
I know I was generalising but it was based on what I heard a lot over the years from people within SCFC so there's truth in it.
TRUE racism belongs in keeping the black race in low paid jobs or racketeering in the streets, that's where the issue needs sorting but there's zero chance with these b@stards in charge. [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 12:09]
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Good post fair play. |  | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:16 - Dec 6 with 538 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Taking the knee was first taken by a USA American footballer protesting against police brutality against black people in the USA during the playing of the US Anthem. USA has particular problems in black districts seriously affected by drugs, drug dealing, mental health issues and firearm possession.
It has been taken on by the UK football people to mean something else to apparently meaning "anti racism" in general. BLM have been ditched because of political aims and objectives which included commune living and self policing.
The "protests" of taking the knee is an English FA artifical muddle. The message is not clear and taking the knee in western culture is a submissive gesture. One Tory MP said he would only take the knee for his God his wife and the Queen. This is not an uncommon belief.
The customer is always right and the Millwall protest against the protest represents was widespread objection against this particular gesture. Dion Dublin said on BBC the customers were racist and should be banned for life. This is intolerant, treating the protestors with complete contempt. I object to the blind following of USA protests by UK adminstrations who have no understanding of the USA s problems.
UK is generally democratic and taking the knee is not popular at all with at least a substantial minority of fans who have no problem at all with wearing anti racist badges on their replica shirts. [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 12:18]
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:35 - Dec 6 with 518 views | Jack59 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 10:48 - Dec 6 by jasper_T |
Booing players taking a knee is making a political statement. |
I am supporting the team financially through my season ticket. I am 100% against sporting teams making political statements or gestures during the match that I have paid to see.
If I had been advised before I bought my season ticket that players would be doing this before each game, I would not have purchased my ticket, it's my choice.
I have no issue with the occasional minutes silence for ex- players on a match by match basis, I expect that to happen and am always happy to support it.
In any case, is there anything more discriminatory in football than the pathetic number of women officiating. Obviously women are not being given equal opportunities in this regard and it needs to be highlighted. Next year, maybe the team should curtsy before kick off in support of womens opportunities in the professional game. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:46 - Dec 6 with 508 views | dobjack2 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:01 - Dec 6 by 9MilesHigh |
Of course it hasn't ever 'gone away', John Barnes speaks a lot of sense and understands there's racism in all of us. In me, you, it's natural in many ways. Many fans made monkey chants in the early days, it's awful to think about that these days and I'm not making any excuses, but some would have more real racist intent than others. For most it was just a way of getting an edge in the game by fair means or foul.
Football is a strange environment, very male, working class dominated and its culture springs off into many directions. The tribalism, the clothes, the music, the misogyny, the racism
I think it's probably wise to be honest about where we all stand on this subject. This is not 1988 and a lot of us ain't teenagers or kids any more. If you did it back then, and I am going to use this word even though some will call it anything but - but "innocently" - and would never again, for whatever reason, like you've grown up or you've realised that's a human being out there, not "the opposition" , then you're not still part of the problem.
It was easy back then to attack the first thing a fan deemed as a weakness - fat, tall, ginger, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, big nose, long hair gypo and of course black.
Football has a lot to answer for, but the problems with real racism is much deeper and the problems are very difficult to fix.
I tried to engage John Barnes on Twitter about black managers and his argument is institutionally black players don't get the breaks - that's what he calls real racism, not that angry youngster at the football 30 years ago or even some idiot on social media who lost his rag and was disgusting in that moment.
But then the black manager thing is really hard for me and I think a lot of it is down to communication and leadership. Black people don't sit in the offices of power so there's a huge lack of role models. The role models black people get are rappers, gangster rappers even, so when they get a few quid from playing football they don't always adopt leadership qualities in the dressing room, they can isolate themselves and can appear arrogant.
Now, not every black player and that's John Barnes' argument. He says there must be enough black players in dressing rooms who are looking to progress and become leaders and they are not getting the chance.
I know I was generalising but it was based on what I heard a lot over the years from people within SCFC so there's truth in it.
TRUE racism belongs in keeping the black race in low paid jobs or racketeering in the streets, that's where the issue needs sorting but there's zero chance with these b@stards in charge. [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 12:09]
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Paul Ince became the first British born Black manager in the premier league in 2008. However, his appointment, which only lasted 21 games, has not inspired the appointment of others.
Chris Hughton is the only other British born Black manager to be appointed as manager of a premier league club on a permanent basis. Four others have taken charge of premier league clubs, but only on a temporary or caretaker basis.
In June 2020 there were only 6 BAME managers/ head coaches amongst the 92 league clubs.
At October 2019 only 4 British South Asian players had played in the Premier league, including Neil Taylor and Michael Chopra. Additionally, on that date only 12 British south Asian players had professional contracts with league clubs Yan Dhanda being one of them.
The lack of Black people in positions of real influence has a knock on effect down the line regarding Black players ambitions after they finish playing.
There are two distinct issues: the boneheads who are either racist or racially abuse players as a way to hurt them and the pathways for Black people within the game itself.
Both need to be addressed. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:55 - Dec 6 with 492 views | jasper_T |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:35 - Dec 6 by Jack59 |
I am supporting the team financially through my season ticket. I am 100% against sporting teams making political statements or gestures during the match that I have paid to see.
If I had been advised before I bought my season ticket that players would be doing this before each game, I would not have purchased my ticket, it's my choice.
I have no issue with the occasional minutes silence for ex- players on a match by match basis, I expect that to happen and am always happy to support it.
In any case, is there anything more discriminatory in football than the pathetic number of women officiating. Obviously women are not being given equal opportunities in this regard and it needs to be highlighted. Next year, maybe the team should curtsy before kick off in support of womens opportunities in the professional game. |
So what you really want it to keep the politics you don't agree with out of sport. Glad you clarified. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:03 - Dec 6 with 485 views | Lohengrin |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:46 - Dec 6 by dobjack2 |
Paul Ince became the first British born Black manager in the premier league in 2008. However, his appointment, which only lasted 21 games, has not inspired the appointment of others.
Chris Hughton is the only other British born Black manager to be appointed as manager of a premier league club on a permanent basis. Four others have taken charge of premier league clubs, but only on a temporary or caretaker basis.
In June 2020 there were only 6 BAME managers/ head coaches amongst the 92 league clubs.
At October 2019 only 4 British South Asian players had played in the Premier league, including Neil Taylor and Michael Chopra. Additionally, on that date only 12 British south Asian players had professional contracts with league clubs Yan Dhanda being one of them.
The lack of Black people in positions of real influence has a knock on effect down the line regarding Black players ambitions after they finish playing.
There are two distinct issues: the boneheads who are either racist or racially abuse players as a way to hurt them and the pathways for Black people within the game itself.
Both need to be addressed. |
The Premier League’s management roster currently comprises:
8 English Managers
2 Portuguese Managers
2 Spanish Managers
1 Austrian Manager
1 Argentine Manager
1 Croatian Manager
1 German Managers
1 Norwegian Manager
1 Northern Irish Manager
1 Italian Manager
1 Scottish Manager
Are you honestly trying to make out it’s some sort of closed shop? The only two considerations are can a manager bring success and can he generate increased income.
Melanin, or lack of, simply doesn’t enter into the equation: that’s a fantasy. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:06 - Dec 6 with 483 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 01:52 - Dec 6 by 9MilesHigh |
Sorry I didn't mean to suggest there was no racism in the 80's etc, there was a far right uprising and the NF tried to recruit in the football firms more prominent at the time. Combat 18 in Chelsea and Millwall was rife and has never fully gone away.
But, until 4 years ago society had moved on a long way since then and a lot of work had gone into keeping a lid on these nasty undercurrents. Racist remarks, chants from the crowd were rightly frowned upon and fans were fully aware this wasn't acceptable.
But when this lot got into power and with the advent of zero accountability at the top an absolute free for all has ensued below.
Luckily, and hopefully, when you do see the absolute state of the main perpetrators they are now in their late 50's, 60's and sadly older and seemingly having one last hurrah.
Well that hurrah can't end quick enough.
You do see these lads still have the odd younger lieutenants but generally it's nothing like on the same scale as before - or that was the case until Brexit.
Where we turn next as a society is anyone's guess. For me, I'm looking to and hoping Joe Biden will be the start of a new dawn and we'll get back more to pre 2016.
But I don't think we'll heal as a society for quite some time. I hope I am wrong.
And for me, that's what BLM is all about. Just a coming together, one and all. Not the crap Dr P is trying to feed you. Shame on him. |
It’s irrelevant what it means to you. It’s what it means to everyone else, and clearly not everyone thinks it does mean everyone coming together in harmony... because that’s clearly not what it stands for in the slightest. You didn’t even know the origin of it until I told you.
Ask the countless home and businesses owners (many of whom are black) who have to deal with the mess this movement had made if they feel everyone has come together in harmony.
Don’t fall into the trap of the rest of the idiots, you are better than that. If you want to discuss the points then discuss them.
Most people are against racism. Not everyone is all for BLM, for obvious reasons. So if the former is what you want addressed then why push the divisive side of it? Seems it’s more like a desire for conflict than unity, disappointingly much like your demeanour since your return for whatever reason you have for it.
But hey, why use common sense when there is conflict to be had, right? [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 13:15]
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:21 - Dec 6 with 470 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:46 - Dec 6 by dobjack2 |
Paul Ince became the first British born Black manager in the premier league in 2008. However, his appointment, which only lasted 21 games, has not inspired the appointment of others.
Chris Hughton is the only other British born Black manager to be appointed as manager of a premier league club on a permanent basis. Four others have taken charge of premier league clubs, but only on a temporary or caretaker basis.
In June 2020 there were only 6 BAME managers/ head coaches amongst the 92 league clubs.
At October 2019 only 4 British South Asian players had played in the Premier league, including Neil Taylor and Michael Chopra. Additionally, on that date only 12 British south Asian players had professional contracts with league clubs Yan Dhanda being one of them.
The lack of Black people in positions of real influence has a knock on effect down the line regarding Black players ambitions after they finish playing.
There are two distinct issues: the boneheads who are either racist or racially abuse players as a way to hurt them and the pathways for Black people within the game itself.
Both need to be addressed. |
What's it like in the US? I don't follow sport there at all. Are there black managers in the NFL, NBA or whatever other elite sport there is?
Good question for you all, and using our experience as fans in seeing what it takes to be a good manager..... which black ex Swans player would you have thought could have been?
I was struggling to think of many, sometimes because I can't remember some of their post match interviews from back in the day to see how they communicated etc (not that that is the be all and end all, but it is certainly at the top of the tree in terms of attributes for me)
From the older brigade...
John William
Forbesy
Johnrose
Walter Boyd ;-)
McFarlane
Des Lyttle
Coleman with black heritage
Gueret
So obviously Coleman if he's in this category.
Forbesy speaks well when he does Swans TV and has made a career in football after playing, so fair play to him, but I can't see him as a manager somehow.
And perhaps the rest I don't know too much about in terms of what they were like off the pitch.
The more modern players
Scotland
Bony
Lita
Emnes
Pratley
Gomis
Ash
Vorm
Augustine
Routs
Dyer
Lowe
Ayew J
Ayew A
and I may have missed some, but who from this list?
Ash? Andre Ayew,, Pratley perhaps?
What does a good manager need to have?
Communication skills - both talking up to the Board and down to the players
General intelligence
Emotional intelligence
Leadership
Patience
Man management skills
It's ridiculous for me or anyone to think black people aren't born with these qualities, the same as any other human being, so why am I struggling to think which of our ex black players would be a success in management.
I could go through our ex white players and the vast majority of them would be bloody hopeless too, I guess the point here is only a tiny percentage of ex players go on to become successful managers. The odds aren't great anyway, white or black, but if you haven't got the above attributes you can forget it anyway.
Viera was the next best hope but he's floundering in France with Nice. They lost to Celina's bottom of the table Dijon last week. I watched the game, very enjoyable, apart from the fact my bet went down on it ;-)
If he fails then there's another great role model gone. Football must be quite institutionally racist but there's not a lot of ex black players doing so much to prove they have what it takes. And we do live in a predominately white country where a lot of footballers are from very working class backgrounds, black people would need to "talk their language" as well. Not easy.
Hasselbank, Sol Campbell, not for me, I would hate them in charge, not because they are black, just because I don't think they could get the right messages through.
So who?? | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:21 - Dec 6 with 468 views | Jack59 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:55 - Dec 6 by jasper_T |
So what you really want it to keep the politics you don't agree with out of sport. Glad you clarified. |
Unfortunately, I think a lot of this appears to be flying over your head. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:26 - Dec 6 with 464 views | Lohengrin |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:21 - Dec 6 by 9MilesHigh |
What's it like in the US? I don't follow sport there at all. Are there black managers in the NFL, NBA or whatever other elite sport there is?
Good question for you all, and using our experience as fans in seeing what it takes to be a good manager..... which black ex Swans player would you have thought could have been?
I was struggling to think of many, sometimes because I can't remember some of their post match interviews from back in the day to see how they communicated etc (not that that is the be all and end all, but it is certainly at the top of the tree in terms of attributes for me)
From the older brigade...
John William
Forbesy
Johnrose
Walter Boyd ;-)
McFarlane
Des Lyttle
Coleman with black heritage
Gueret
So obviously Coleman if he's in this category.
Forbesy speaks well when he does Swans TV and has made a career in football after playing, so fair play to him, but I can't see him as a manager somehow.
And perhaps the rest I don't know too much about in terms of what they were like off the pitch.
The more modern players
Scotland
Bony
Lita
Emnes
Pratley
Gomis
Ash
Vorm
Augustine
Routs
Dyer
Lowe
Ayew J
Ayew A
and I may have missed some, but who from this list?
Ash? Andre Ayew,, Pratley perhaps?
What does a good manager need to have?
Communication skills - both talking up to the Board and down to the players
General intelligence
Emotional intelligence
Leadership
Patience
Man management skills
It's ridiculous for me or anyone to think black people aren't born with these qualities, the same as any other human being, so why am I struggling to think which of our ex black players would be a success in management.
I could go through our ex white players and the vast majority of them would be bloody hopeless too, I guess the point here is only a tiny percentage of ex players go on to become successful managers. The odds aren't great anyway, white or black, but if you haven't got the above attributes you can forget it anyway.
Viera was the next best hope but he's floundering in France with Nice. They lost to Celina's bottom of the table Dijon last week. I watched the game, very enjoyable, apart from the fact my bet went down on it ;-)
If he fails then there's another great role model gone. Football must be quite institutionally racist but there's not a lot of ex black players doing so much to prove they have what it takes. And we do live in a predominately white country where a lot of footballers are from very working class backgrounds, black people would need to "talk their language" as well. Not easy.
Hasselbank, Sol Campbell, not for me, I would hate them in charge, not because they are black, just because I don't think they could get the right messages through.
So who?? |
My abiding memory of Gueret is of him being absolutely batshit crazy.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:27 - Dec 6 with 463 views | dobjack2 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 12:16 - Dec 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Taking the knee was first taken by a USA American footballer protesting against police brutality against black people in the USA during the playing of the US Anthem. USA has particular problems in black districts seriously affected by drugs, drug dealing, mental health issues and firearm possession.
It has been taken on by the UK football people to mean something else to apparently meaning "anti racism" in general. BLM have been ditched because of political aims and objectives which included commune living and self policing.
The "protests" of taking the knee is an English FA artifical muddle. The message is not clear and taking the knee in western culture is a submissive gesture. One Tory MP said he would only take the knee for his God his wife and the Queen. This is not an uncommon belief.
The customer is always right and the Millwall protest against the protest represents was widespread objection against this particular gesture. Dion Dublin said on BBC the customers were racist and should be banned for life. This is intolerant, treating the protestors with complete contempt. I object to the blind following of USA protests by UK adminstrations who have no understanding of the USA s problems.
UK is generally democratic and taking the knee is not popular at all with at least a substantial minority of fans who have no problem at all with wearing anti racist badges on their replica shirts. [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 12:18]
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The person that didn’t think that Luis Suarez racially abused Patrice Evra misses the point again.
It’s an anti racism protest. Black footballers get racially abused, footballers are highlighting it.
Some people may not like the form of protest, however that is insignificant when compared to how Black footballers who are racially abused must feel.
Perspective. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:27 - Dec 6 with 462 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:06 - Dec 6 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s irrelevant what it means to you. It’s what it means to everyone else, and clearly not everyone thinks it does mean everyone coming together in harmony... because that’s clearly not what it stands for in the slightest. You didn’t even know the origin of it until I told you.
Ask the countless home and businesses owners (many of whom are black) who have to deal with the mess this movement had made if they feel everyone has come together in harmony.
Don’t fall into the trap of the rest of the idiots, you are better than that. If you want to discuss the points then discuss them.
Most people are against racism. Not everyone is all for BLM, for obvious reasons. So if the former is what you want addressed then why push the divisive side of it? Seems it’s more like a desire for conflict than unity, disappointingly much like your demeanour since your return for whatever reason you have for it.
But hey, why use common sense when there is conflict to be had, right? [Post edited 6 Dec 2020 13:15]
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Nonsense, again. I am "everyone else" to someone else so of course it matters what it means to me. But more importantly it matters more to the black players who want to be treated the same and with respect.
Have you asked the countless home and business owners? Have you asked any? Or maybe you've read what you want to read?
You are trying to steal away the deep true meaning of it and are trying to demean it and camouflage it in politics. That's sad.
If there's a conflict to be had with people of these views I 'll be there. | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:31 - Dec 6 with 451 views | 9MilesHigh |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:26 - Dec 6 by Lohengrin |
My abiding memory of Gueret is of him being absolutely batshit crazy. |
Like Bielsa then? ;-) | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:33 - Dec 6 with 450 views | dobjack2 |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:21 - Dec 6 by 9MilesHigh |
What's it like in the US? I don't follow sport there at all. Are there black managers in the NFL, NBA or whatever other elite sport there is?
Good question for you all, and using our experience as fans in seeing what it takes to be a good manager..... which black ex Swans player would you have thought could have been?
I was struggling to think of many, sometimes because I can't remember some of their post match interviews from back in the day to see how they communicated etc (not that that is the be all and end all, but it is certainly at the top of the tree in terms of attributes for me)
From the older brigade...
John William
Forbesy
Johnrose
Walter Boyd ;-)
McFarlane
Des Lyttle
Coleman with black heritage
Gueret
So obviously Coleman if he's in this category.
Forbesy speaks well when he does Swans TV and has made a career in football after playing, so fair play to him, but I can't see him as a manager somehow.
And perhaps the rest I don't know too much about in terms of what they were like off the pitch.
The more modern players
Scotland
Bony
Lita
Emnes
Pratley
Gomis
Ash
Vorm
Augustine
Routs
Dyer
Lowe
Ayew J
Ayew A
and I may have missed some, but who from this list?
Ash? Andre Ayew,, Pratley perhaps?
What does a good manager need to have?
Communication skills - both talking up to the Board and down to the players
General intelligence
Emotional intelligence
Leadership
Patience
Man management skills
It's ridiculous for me or anyone to think black people aren't born with these qualities, the same as any other human being, so why am I struggling to think which of our ex black players would be a success in management.
I could go through our ex white players and the vast majority of them would be bloody hopeless too, I guess the point here is only a tiny percentage of ex players go on to become successful managers. The odds aren't great anyway, white or black, but if you haven't got the above attributes you can forget it anyway.
Viera was the next best hope but he's floundering in France with Nice. They lost to Celina's bottom of the table Dijon last week. I watched the game, very enjoyable, apart from the fact my bet went down on it ;-)
If he fails then there's another great role model gone. Football must be quite institutionally racist but there's not a lot of ex black players doing so much to prove they have what it takes. And we do live in a predominately white country where a lot of footballers are from very working class backgrounds, black people would need to "talk their language" as well. Not easy.
Hasselbank, Sol Campbell, not for me, I would hate them in charge, not because they are black, just because I don't think they could get the right messages through.
So who?? |
As I don’t know who wants to do it or who has taken the badges no idea.
You said it yourself that you don’t know what people were like off the pitch.
However the numbers don’t add up so there is something wrong somewhere | | | |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:35 - Dec 6 with 447 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Millwall fans behaviour today ? on 13:27 - Dec 6 by 9MilesHigh |
Nonsense, again. I am "everyone else" to someone else so of course it matters what it means to me. But more importantly it matters more to the black players who want to be treated the same and with respect.
Have you asked the countless home and business owners? Have you asked any? Or maybe you've read what you want to read?
You are trying to steal away the deep true meaning of it and are trying to demean it and camouflage it in politics. That's sad.
If there's a conflict to be had with people of these views I 'll be there. |
But nobody else is saying these bold statements, only you.
So in this instance your standard is irrelevant as it is not everybody else’s standard - rightly so. You expect your interpretation to be the one that is universal even though by your own words you didn’t know much about the movement at all. So I find it quite amazing you think your interpretation is the one to follow.
No I haven’t asked anyone what it’s like to have their homes and businesses burned to the ground. I think it’s fairly obvious their feelings, don’t you?
Whether you like it or not, people will have a differing view to you about the organisation. It’s a divisive one by its very nature. But it’s WHY they disagree is what you need to be listening to. If you aim is to raise awareness to racism then you will probably align with far more people - yet knowing that you still seem determined to push an organisation you now realise is politically divisive.
I think what you have described is exactly what you are doing. You are clearly a staunch liberal and would rather have conflict with people that aren’t rather than discuss the very subject at hand that everyone would agree on.
It doesn’t seem like it’s about race to you, it’s about politics. Which is why you are happy to bypass the main goal of racial equality (which people would agree with) and continue with the divisive rubbish which people clearly don’t. But that’s your choice. It’s a shame.
[Post edited 6 Dec 2020 13:38]
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