| Money being moved around? 09:40 - Jan 13 with 10900 views | Chief |
Poster seems to think 5million has been sent over to America from the football club:
Anyone make any sense of it? |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 19:09 - Jan 15 with 1129 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Money being moved around? on 23:03 - Jan 14 by AndyCole |
Amateurish and uncouth was a direct reference to the responses made to Res, parallels drawn to the way in which the trust behaves.
It's not about who's the best book-keeper. Technical financial jargon is a deflection from the real issues. A shield used by those that are out of their depth in the real issues.
Res seems to give it his best shot and yet gets pilloried by some random book-keeper, swooping in from the dark side. |
I have no desire to get involved in a argument but I will make a coupe of quick points before I depart this thread.
Firstly, ‘Resloven’ isn’t giving it his best shot. He is deliberately attempting to undermine the Trust at every available opportunity. I will leave it to him to explain to everyone on this forum exactly why that’s the case...
Secondly. One of the main thrusts of him undermining the Trust is to talk incessant nonsense (nonscence is how he spells it btw. Over and over again. On every platform...) about financial matters. We’ve had the genuinely unbelievable argument that the Trust should invest its money differently. We’ve had repeated claims that the Trust’s share is worth x (insert number based on unrelated clubs being sold, in the premier league, with owned grounds, with no acknowledgement whatsoever of the company structure that’s at play here, minority discount, the fact that full control of the club can be sold without touching the legal entity where the Trust shares sit etc etc). We’ve had him stating on any number of occasions that he’s ‘heard‘ (snigger) about low interest rates, amounts the Trust will have to pay in tax, or case funding, or what a judge will award. We’ve had threads started in convertible shares (again, always ‘convertable ’ in his posts, here and elsewhere - people’s repeated misspelling of words doesn’t half give them away however much they try to hide it, but that’s an aside).
You can think what you want about relevant expertise, and I genuinely don’t care, but Resloven is talking about stuff he doesn’t understand. It’s really obvious.
Finally. I haven’t ‘swept in from the dark side’. My user name contains the year I joined this forum (or its predecessor). I remember talking on these boards to Keith when he was running the Mags and we were all using the guestbook and swanmail with Paltalk on match days. I have never left this forum. I post on both as the mood takes me. This childish ‘someone from the other board’ stuff is as pathetic as it gets.
You’ll note that at no point on this thread btw have I criticised the current owners or management. Indeed, my initial contribution to the thread was me explaining what the filing at companies house meant and why the tweet about it was Incorrect. All I have done is explain the reality of the situation. It doesn’t mean these things will happen. It just points out what is legally possible. I’m sure everyone will understand that if something is legally possible it is a concern that should be addressed if at all possible. No one knows what someone could do otherwise in the future. We’ve surely all learnt the hard way that people cannot be trusted to behave properly.
Now I will leave you all to it. But I would just say that people on this and every other board, should understand that not every poster is what they try to portray.
Don’t fall in to the trap of assuming that someone’s first priority is the club. Everyone should, by now, recognise that for some, the club takes a very, very distant second, third, or hundredth place.
The people at the Trust, however, are the ones that don’t stand to personally benefit from any of this. If the Trust is worth £100m or 10p it makes no difference to their pockets. I wasn’t involved in the Trust when the sale happened, nor when the first vote about potential legal action happened. Many will recall I had a very different opinion to what ended up being supported by the majority of members. But since I have been somewhat involved, I have seen the incredible amount of time that people are putting in to do the best they can for supporters, on a voluntary basis, with no real feedback other than pricks on here and elsewhere slagging them off. Constantly. For reasons they will never divulge.
Enjoy the slagging off. You’ll reap what you sow. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 19:12]
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| Money being moved around? on 19:31 - Jan 15 with 1099 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 19:09 - Jan 15 by londonlisa2001 |
I have no desire to get involved in a argument but I will make a coupe of quick points before I depart this thread.
Firstly, ‘Resloven’ isn’t giving it his best shot. He is deliberately attempting to undermine the Trust at every available opportunity. I will leave it to him to explain to everyone on this forum exactly why that’s the case...
Secondly. One of the main thrusts of him undermining the Trust is to talk incessant nonsense (nonscence is how he spells it btw. Over and over again. On every platform...) about financial matters. We’ve had the genuinely unbelievable argument that the Trust should invest its money differently. We’ve had repeated claims that the Trust’s share is worth x (insert number based on unrelated clubs being sold, in the premier league, with owned grounds, with no acknowledgement whatsoever of the company structure that’s at play here, minority discount, the fact that full control of the club can be sold without touching the legal entity where the Trust shares sit etc etc). We’ve had him stating on any number of occasions that he’s ‘heard‘ (snigger) about low interest rates, amounts the Trust will have to pay in tax, or case funding, or what a judge will award. We’ve had threads started in convertible shares (again, always ‘convertable ’ in his posts, here and elsewhere - people’s repeated misspelling of words doesn’t half give them away however much they try to hide it, but that’s an aside).
You can think what you want about relevant expertise, and I genuinely don’t care, but Resloven is talking about stuff he doesn’t understand. It’s really obvious.
Finally. I haven’t ‘swept in from the dark side’. My user name contains the year I joined this forum (or its predecessor). I remember talking on these boards to Keith when he was running the Mags and we were all using the guestbook and swanmail with Paltalk on match days. I have never left this forum. I post on both as the mood takes me. This childish ‘someone from the other board’ stuff is as pathetic as it gets.
You’ll note that at no point on this thread btw have I criticised the current owners or management. Indeed, my initial contribution to the thread was me explaining what the filing at companies house meant and why the tweet about it was Incorrect. All I have done is explain the reality of the situation. It doesn’t mean these things will happen. It just points out what is legally possible. I’m sure everyone will understand that if something is legally possible it is a concern that should be addressed if at all possible. No one knows what someone could do otherwise in the future. We’ve surely all learnt the hard way that people cannot be trusted to behave properly.
Now I will leave you all to it. But I would just say that people on this and every other board, should understand that not every poster is what they try to portray.
Don’t fall in to the trap of assuming that someone’s first priority is the club. Everyone should, by now, recognise that for some, the club takes a very, very distant second, third, or hundredth place.
The people at the Trust, however, are the ones that don’t stand to personally benefit from any of this. If the Trust is worth £100m or 10p it makes no difference to their pockets. I wasn’t involved in the Trust when the sale happened, nor when the first vote about potential legal action happened. Many will recall I had a very different opinion to what ended up being supported by the majority of members. But since I have been somewhat involved, I have seen the incredible amount of time that people are putting in to do the best they can for supporters, on a voluntary basis, with no real feedback other than pricks on here and elsewhere slagging them off. Constantly. For reasons they will never divulge.
Enjoy the slagging off. You’ll reap what you sow. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 19:12]
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Great Post.
Down arrowed in error. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 19:39 - Jan 15 with 1092 views | AndyCole |
| Money being moved around? on 13:46 - Jan 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
My perspective.
The Trust people quite naturally do no like people like me questioning their performance and I am not surprised. I never get personal and never will. They are volunteers and deserve credit for picking up the baton. When using MS word I get by with spell check.
Its a simple fact that if Swansea city return to the Premier league the club would be worth £200m based on the valuation of Burnley bought by US sports investors. Based on that the Trusts shares would be worth in an around a whopping £42m. (if a buyer could be found)
Selling the shares for £42m is in my opinion not 'pie in the sky' as some would like to think. Takeovers are quite often for 100% ownership. The Trust were not ready to sell in 2016 and are not ready now. Clearly the best strategy is to get the ducks in line with a mandate to sell off the members and get networking. Are they doing this? Why not?
The argument that their holding is 'unsellible' is simply wrong and lazy thinking. Only a fool would buy that nonscence. Like all sales it is simply a matter of price. If the buyers of Swansea city LLP (USA) are willing to pay £2m per 1% to the "Yankees" you might think buying the Trust s shares for £1.8m per 1% might be of interest to them would you not? Unsellable I do not think so. The Trust share are as valuable as anyone else's.
If you consider Levien and co will want to sell their shares in the Premier League for say £200m like Burnley the Trust could have a little word with them and tell them they will be putting their shares up for sale in the Premier League for £1.8m per 1%. A selling agent has been emplyed and an advert will be put in the Wall Street Journal, South East Asia Times and New York Times. I am not financial guru but It seem to me the buyer would buy the Trust's shares first saving themselves £4,2m. To avoid being undercut Levien and co would want either to buy those shares themselves or include the Trust in the sale. It does not matter if you are selling lambs in Carmarthen or football clubs in New York the principlesare the same.
The arguments for the legal case are well and truly shot to bits. (in my opinion).
The legal case was based on a false projection of the club tumbling donw the leagues heading for administration. The US people have loaned their own money to prevent that happening.
Why force as sale for £14-15m before tax when the valuation is £42m? You not not need to be an accountant and a SE1 post code to see that. I know how to spell 'bonkers'. The QC was right it is a 'last resort'. It is not time to eat the family dog. 'Set Bonzo free' as Stan Stennett used to say. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 13:48]
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The Trust people absolutely need people like you keep questioning and challenging. Hats off. And hats off for not getting personal when you get such puerile abuse. A lesson to us all. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Money being moved around? on 20:02 - Jan 15 with 1071 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 19:39 - Jan 15 by AndyCole |
The Trust people absolutely need people like you keep questioning and challenging. Hats off. And hats off for not getting personal when you get such puerile abuse. A lesson to us all. |
Its personal with and the trust.
He definitely has some irrational hatred of them. The things he's called them and the things he's accused them of are unbelievable. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 20:28 - Jan 15 with 1065 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Money being moved around? on 20:02 - Jan 15 by Chief |
Its personal with and the trust.
He definitely has some irrational hatred of them. The things he's called them and the things he's accused them of are unbelievable. |
I am questioning the Trusts strategy and been absolutely rigorous in not criticising any individual involved. I have a grudging respect for thier PR campaign before the second vote. It is right up there with the 2016 Brexit vote. Controlling the forums etc. Outstanding. They have the total trust of the members. This is very impressive.
Sadly when you look at their investment and strategy over the lst 6 years it is poor. Holding shares in Manchester utd super high risk. Owning shares in Swansea city is super super high risk Going to court for selling shares in Swansea city football club shares is 'off the scale' in my opinion in terms of risk. That is my rationale Chief. |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 20:36 - Jan 15 with 1055 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 20:28 - Jan 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am questioning the Trusts strategy and been absolutely rigorous in not criticising any individual involved. I have a grudging respect for thier PR campaign before the second vote. It is right up there with the 2016 Brexit vote. Controlling the forums etc. Outstanding. They have the total trust of the members. This is very impressive.
Sadly when you look at their investment and strategy over the lst 6 years it is poor. Holding shares in Manchester utd super high risk. Owning shares in Swansea city is super super high risk Going to court for selling shares in Swansea city football club shares is 'off the scale' in my opinion in terms of risk. That is my rationale Chief. |
And your error was in your first paragraph.
Any sych questioning will result in abuse/insults then you will be described as a martyr if you object to being called that.
You have every right to ask questions;I wish the Trust had at the time of the sale. I wish our on line expert had given our club the benefit of their expertise | |
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| Money being moved around? on 22:33 - Jan 15 with 1006 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 20:28 - Jan 15 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I am questioning the Trusts strategy and been absolutely rigorous in not criticising any individual involved. I have a grudging respect for thier PR campaign before the second vote. It is right up there with the 2016 Brexit vote. Controlling the forums etc. Outstanding. They have the total trust of the members. This is very impressive.
Sadly when you look at their investment and strategy over the lst 6 years it is poor. Holding shares in Manchester utd super high risk. Owning shares in Swansea city is super super high risk Going to court for selling shares in Swansea city football club shares is 'off the scale' in my opinion in terms of risk. That is my rationale Chief. |
And that's fair enough.
If you left at that. But you don't. You try to twist every little thing against them | |
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| Money being moved around? on 22:35 - Jan 15 with 1003 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 20:36 - Jan 15 by onehunglow |
And your error was in your first paragraph.
Any sych questioning will result in abuse/insults then you will be described as a martyr if you object to being called that.
You have every right to ask questions;I wish the Trust had at the time of the sale. I wish our on line expert had given our club the benefit of their expertise |
How could they have asked questions about a sale that they were excluded from knowing about? | |
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| Money being moved around? on 22:40 - Jan 15 with 999 views | Chief |
Is this thread now just one big fishing exercise looking for bites?
Several posters now are coming out with fairly illogical and inaccurate statements and then seemingly ignore any request for clarification or when challenged on them. They either disappear like Badlands or just ignore and carry on posting in a similar vein as AndyCole abd Onehunglow.
I don't agree much Resolven says on this subject, but at least hes usually willing to engage. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 22:46 - Jan 15 with 994 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Money being moved around? on 22:33 - Jan 15 by Chief |
And that's fair enough.
If you left at that. But you don't. You try to twist every little thing against them |
This with bells on. |  | | |
| Money being moved around? on 22:48 - Jan 15 with 990 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Money being moved around? on 22:35 - Jan 15 by Chief |
How could they have asked questions about a sale that they were excluded from knowing about? |
Brilliant, its still their fault mun, resolven says so. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 00:56 - Jan 16 with 944 views | Joe_bradshaw |
| Money being moved around? on 22:48 - Jan 15 by Treforys_Jack |
Brilliant, its still their fault mun, resolven says so. |
Why blame the perpetrators of the crime when you can endlessly blame the victim instead? |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 02:14 - Jan 16 with 925 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Money being moved around? on 00:56 - Jan 16 by Joe_bradshaw |
Why blame the perpetrators of the crime when you can endlessly blame the victim instead? |
No crime no victim. Everyone in UK wants to be a victim these days it seems. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 11:54 - Jan 16 with 855 views | onehunglow |
Is it not personal that the Trust wants to sue the sellers.I read it s not about the money but justice.
It seems we have enough fans ,educated and articulated enough to have foreseen this catastrophe but they did nothing then but now they are the most vociferous in ripping into anyone remotely questioning this action. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 12:22 - Jan 16 with 846 views | Badlands |
| Money being moved around? on 22:35 - Jan 15 by Chief |
How could they have asked questions about a sale that they were excluded from knowing about? |
Look back at the events with from an objective standpoint.
The Trust, having been informed of the shareholders desire to sell, stated they would not enter into a sale. This move, together with not owning the ground, automatically put off prospective buyers who would not have been interested in part ownership.
The shareholders then had two options -
1) let the Trust dictate what they do with their property (shares).
2) Go ahead with a sale, take the cash and face a lifetime of abuse.
from Feb 2016, I knew about the sale, anyone who read the media knew about the sale, the discussions lasting 6 months should have been obvious to anyone vaguely interested in Swansea City. |  |
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| Money being moved around? on 12:33 - Jan 16 with 844 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 12:22 - Jan 16 by Badlands |
Look back at the events with from an objective standpoint.
The Trust, having been informed of the shareholders desire to sell, stated they would not enter into a sale. This move, together with not owning the ground, automatically put off prospective buyers who would not have been interested in part ownership.
The shareholders then had two options -
1) let the Trust dictate what they do with their property (shares).
2) Go ahead with a sale, take the cash and face a lifetime of abuse.
from Feb 2016, I knew about the sale, anyone who read the media knew about the sale, the discussions lasting 6 months should have been obvious to anyone vaguely interested in Swansea City. |
It also begs the question as to ow they allowed themselves to be excluded.
This body was supposed to be the clubs guardian. That they weren't aware is surely disturbing. It seems that massive back stabbing went on and that ,to me,is what killed us.
Our previous hiatus in the 80s was down to incompetence whereas this one was down to subtefuge.
My God,look at the state of us now squabbling over this and the insults flying around. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 12:37 - Jan 16 with 841 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 12:33 - Jan 16 by onehunglow |
It also begs the question as to ow they allowed themselves to be excluded.
This body was supposed to be the clubs guardian. That they weren't aware is surely disturbing. It seems that massive back stabbing went on and that ,to me,is what killed us.
Our previous hiatus in the 80s was down to incompetence whereas this one was down to subtefuge.
My God,look at the state of us now squabbling over this and the insults flying around. |
In what possible way could the trust have prevented the sellouts having covert meetings and dealings with the Americans? | |
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| Money being moved around? on 12:56 - Jan 16 with 831 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 12:37 - Jan 16 by Chief |
In what possible way could the trust have prevented the sellouts having covert meetings and dealings with the Americans? |
This is now futile discussing this any longer as it will lead to personal crap again .
Put it this way.If I were guardian of something I would be mortified to have been duped/conned/misled/traduced.A Trust is just that and ours can be questioned as regards it competence and awareness.
Only joking.  | |
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| Money being moved around? on 13:01 - Jan 16 with 827 views | Chief |
| Money being moved around? on 12:56 - Jan 16 by onehunglow |
This is now futile discussing this any longer as it will lead to personal crap again .
Put it this way.If I were guardian of something I would be mortified to have been duped/conned/misled/traduced.A Trust is just that and ours can be questioned as regards it competence and awareness.
Only joking. |
The trust are all those things hence the decision take the pn the legal case.
You can't invite yourself to meeting or interject yourself into business dealings that you do not know are taking place. Think logically. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:19 - Jan 16 with 782 views | AndyCole |
| Money being moved around? on 22:40 - Jan 15 by Chief |
Is this thread now just one big fishing exercise looking for bites?
Several posters now are coming out with fairly illogical and inaccurate statements and then seemingly ignore any request for clarification or when challenged on them. They either disappear like Badlands or just ignore and carry on posting in a similar vein as AndyCole abd Onehunglow.
I don't agree much Resolven says on this subject, but at least hes usually willing to engage. |
Not at all a fishing exercise. Your ongoing dialogue with Res is highly informative and entertaining, utmost respect to the both of you. And a big lesson for many.
Your deep knowledge on this subject is something most can't contend/engage with. Yet some still choose to denigrate your efforts and derail proper grown up discussion. Based on ego and twisted agendas. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:30 - Jan 16 with 779 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 13:01 - Jan 16 by Chief |
The trust are all those things hence the decision take the pn the legal case.
You can't invite yourself to meeting or interject yourself into business dealings that you do not know are taking place. Think logically. |
Looking at some of the posting here Im not sure Im worthy .
In the meantime though,I ll just watch and learn from experts like you and the infamous lisa from london who "make a mug of res yesterday".With bitching arrogance like that,no wonder being a Swan fan on here is not always pleasant.
FOOTNOTE .
Nobody is made a mug on sites like this apart from in the minds of the shallow.
I'll post when I want to,thanks. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 18:38 - Jan 16 with 774 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Money being moved around? on 13:01 - Jan 16 by Chief |
The trust are all those things hence the decision take the pn the legal case.
You can't invite yourself to meeting or interject yourself into business dealings that you do not know are taking place. Think logically. |
Mate, you're wasting your time. | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 18:52 - Jan 16 with 767 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 18:38 - Jan 16 by Treforys_Jack |
Mate, you're wasting your time. |
and so are you,son. | |
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| Money being moved around? on 19:55 - Jan 16 with 756 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Money being moved around? on 18:52 - Jan 16 by onehunglow |
and so are you,son. |
Don't son me you massive hypocrite | | | |
| Money being moved around? on 20:43 - Jan 16 with 732 views | onehunglow |
| Money being moved around? on 19:55 - Jan 16 by Treforys_Jack |
Don't son me you massive hypocrite |
Cant take it then ,bach.
Hypocrite is not aposite in this exchange so try harder,dear friend.
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