| “We need to rotate” 19:32 - Mar 20 with 13060 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Can we stop with that nonsense now please, and realise the fact that we have an incredibly front loaded and lop sided squad.
Bidwell looked like a player that had been rotated, no sharpness and no fluidity and about 3 yards off the pace. Whittaker for all his effort has nowhere near the physical attributes to be playing at this level yet, he showed what he could be at times and is going to be a very good player I have no doubt, but he was knocked off the ball every time he was challenged and we gave up possession far too easily. Naughton is not a centre back and what benefits he may give us when we have the ball sadly we lose without it, we were dominated in the air in both boxes.
We need to play our best team and accept we will be tired at times, that’s the nature of football when you don’t have a big squad full of quality. Which is something we don’t have despite many pretending otherwise.
I am full of praise for the management team and their achievements thus far but one area where I feel disappointed in is I don’t think they have blocked out the noise efficiently enough. To me, it looks like they have allowed desperate opinion to be picked up by journalists and has allowed that to permeate their decision making. This latest game seems to be the epitome of that. It was a disjointed game with what looked like a cobbled together team.
Cabango, Lowe and Smith have to start. |  |
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| “We need to rotate” on 18:05 - Apr 7 with 728 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 14:56 - Apr 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes absolutely. People are welcome to have any opinions they like.
But again, we are factually better in almost every department when Cabango plays there over Naughton, regardless of any opinion either of us or Cooper has. |
Not disputing we have slightly more possession, pass completion etc. Undoubtedly we win more headers.
I guess it’s harder to provide stats for how curbed Roberts is going forward knowing he has a centre back, rather than a defender who can cover both positions behind him.
Likewise, quality of passing (as in was it rolled to Bennett, or did it start a move off), how often carrying the ball into midfield made space for Roberts or a midfielder.
Intangibles, hard to prove with percentages, but no less important than the more rudimentary stats. Certainly Cooper (or any other manager) would factor that and more in, then make an informed choice.
Opinions. |  | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 23:33 - Apr 7 with 678 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 18:05 - Apr 7 by jack247 |
Not disputing we have slightly more possession, pass completion etc. Undoubtedly we win more headers.
I guess it’s harder to provide stats for how curbed Roberts is going forward knowing he has a centre back, rather than a defender who can cover both positions behind him.
Likewise, quality of passing (as in was it rolled to Bennett, or did it start a move off), how often carrying the ball into midfield made space for Roberts or a midfielder.
Intangibles, hard to prove with percentages, but no less important than the more rudimentary stats. Certainly Cooper (or any other manager) would factor that and more in, then make an informed choice.
Opinions. |
It doesn’t matter.
You don’t seem to grasp the statement that what positives Naughton brings to the side is outweighed by the negatives when he plays instead of Cabango.
You can list 10 things Naughton is better at - and you may well be right, you can theorise which players play worse when Cabango plays - and you may well be right there too... but the facts say that those things will be outweighed by the positives he brings to the team.
We play better as a team when Cabango is there, it’s just a fact. If the goal was to make Roberts play well (although I’m not particularly on board with your theory on that) instead of the team then I could understand your view, but the goal of a manager is to get his team to play the best and it’s also the desire of supporters. That happens when Cabango plays there.
I really can’t explain in any simpler terms. It isn’t an opinion. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 0:18]
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| “We need to rotate” on 06:14 - Apr 8 with 642 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 23:33 - Apr 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
It doesn’t matter.
You don’t seem to grasp the statement that what positives Naughton brings to the side is outweighed by the negatives when he plays instead of Cabango.
You can list 10 things Naughton is better at - and you may well be right, you can theorise which players play worse when Cabango plays - and you may well be right there too... but the facts say that those things will be outweighed by the positives he brings to the team.
We play better as a team when Cabango is there, it’s just a fact. If the goal was to make Roberts play well (although I’m not particularly on board with your theory on that) instead of the team then I could understand your view, but the goal of a manager is to get his team to play the best and it’s also the desire of supporters. That happens when Cabango plays there.
I really can’t explain in any simpler terms. It isn’t an opinion. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 0:18]
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You’re confusing not grasping with not agreeing with.
Both players undoubtedly have areas where they are stronger than the other. You think Cabangos outweigh Naughtons. I don’t.
The ‘facts’ as you put them are moneyball. Not to be ignored, but far from the be all and end all, like I said, our manager sides with the more complex intangibles that favour Naughton.
‘We play better is a team when Cabango is there’ is an opinion. ‘We win more headers as a team when Cabango is playing’ is a fact. You know that. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 06:46 - Apr 8 with 638 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 06:14 - Apr 8 by jack247 |
You’re confusing not grasping with not agreeing with.
Both players undoubtedly have areas where they are stronger than the other. You think Cabangos outweigh Naughtons. I don’t.
The ‘facts’ as you put them are moneyball. Not to be ignored, but far from the be all and end all, like I said, our manager sides with the more complex intangibles that favour Naughton.
‘We play better is a team when Cabango is there’ is an opinion. ‘We win more headers as a team when Cabango is playing’ is a fact. You know that. |
But it's not an opinion to agree or disagree with, that's the point. It isn't what I think that is important, its just the reality of what happens when Cabango plays there and the reality of what happens when Naughton does.
Saying we benefit as team in nearly every department when Cabano plays there is not an opinion, it's a fact.
Clearly what you think we gain from Naughton playing there is nowhere near what we lose when Cabango doesn't - otherwise that simply wouldn't be the case. The sample size is enough. It’s not an anomaly, it’s consistently the case adding and taking away a whole host of criteria that people have wanted.
We have more possession as a team when Cabango plays, we are more efficient in attack, we are more efficient in defence, we pick up more points per game. We play better when he is there, it has nothing to do with ''winning more headers'', or certainly very little. We are talking overall.
That's not an opinion.
We won't be seeing eye to eye on this one. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 7:15]
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| “We need to rotate” on 07:55 - Apr 8 with 615 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 06:46 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
But it's not an opinion to agree or disagree with, that's the point. It isn't what I think that is important, its just the reality of what happens when Cabango plays there and the reality of what happens when Naughton does.
Saying we benefit as team in nearly every department when Cabano plays there is not an opinion, it's a fact.
Clearly what you think we gain from Naughton playing there is nowhere near what we lose when Cabango doesn't - otherwise that simply wouldn't be the case. The sample size is enough. It’s not an anomaly, it’s consistently the case adding and taking away a whole host of criteria that people have wanted.
We have more possession as a team when Cabango plays, we are more efficient in attack, we are more efficient in defence, we pick up more points per game. We play better when he is there, it has nothing to do with ''winning more headers'', or certainly very little. We are talking overall.
That's not an opinion.
We won't be seeing eye to eye on this one. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 7:15]
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Not seeing eye to eye with Cooper either are you by the looks.
You're starting to see the light. |  | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 08:01 - Apr 8 with 614 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 07:55 - Apr 8 by 34dfgdf54 |
Not seeing eye to eye with Cooper either are you by the looks.
You're starting to see the light. |
Michu was our greatest player in my lifetime, he often used to shoot when I didn't think he should have. Doesn't mean I wanted him dropped.
I have disagreed with many things previous managers and players have done, some my favorite of all time. My point is disagreeing and abuse aren't they same thing. It was a point I made the last time you decided to make this point - nothing has changed. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 08:35 - Apr 8 with 600 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 06:46 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
But it's not an opinion to agree or disagree with, that's the point. It isn't what I think that is important, its just the reality of what happens when Cabango plays there and the reality of what happens when Naughton does.
Saying we benefit as team in nearly every department when Cabano plays there is not an opinion, it's a fact.
Clearly what you think we gain from Naughton playing there is nowhere near what we lose when Cabango doesn't - otherwise that simply wouldn't be the case. The sample size is enough. It’s not an anomaly, it’s consistently the case adding and taking away a whole host of criteria that people have wanted.
We have more possession as a team when Cabango plays, we are more efficient in attack, we are more efficient in defence, we pick up more points per game. We play better when he is there, it has nothing to do with ''winning more headers'', or certainly very little. We are talking overall.
That's not an opinion.
We won't be seeing eye to eye on this one. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 7:15]
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I agree with your last line.
‘We play better when he is there’ can never, ever be a fact, but I’m not going to argue that point with you anymore.
In all the years you’ve been posting, I don’t ever recall you letting anyone have the last word and you aren’t going to start now. At least, if you’ve been paying attention, you’ve learnt something about the position.
Crack on with your closing post. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 08:51 - Apr 8 with 597 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 08:35 - Apr 8 by jack247 |
I agree with your last line.
‘We play better when he is there’ can never, ever be a fact, but I’m not going to argue that point with you anymore.
In all the years you’ve been posting, I don’t ever recall you letting anyone have the last word and you aren’t going to start now. At least, if you’ve been paying attention, you’ve learnt something about the position.
Crack on with your closing post. |
Of course it can.
If we have more of the ball, we are more efficient in defence and attack while picking up more points per game then of course we are playing better.
I always pay attention, the roles you highlighted that you believe Naughton brings to the role isn't transitioning to team performance. Whilst it's clear you don't believe that should be the case, it is the case.
You have reacted to that with condescension, which is your normal MO. But nothing changes, we play better when Cabango is there. Again that is not an opinion, just a fact. Whether you like that fact is an irrelevance. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:14 - Apr 8 with 579 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 08:51 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course it can.
If we have more of the ball, we are more efficient in defence and attack while picking up more points per game then of course we are playing better.
I always pay attention, the roles you highlighted that you believe Naughton brings to the role isn't transitioning to team performance. Whilst it's clear you don't believe that should be the case, it is the case.
You have reacted to that with condescension, which is your normal MO. But nothing changes, we play better when Cabango is there. Again that is not an opinion, just a fact. Whether you like that fact is an irrelevance. |
Condescension isn’t my MO at all, however I’m happy to run with it for the remainder of this post.
If it was, I’d have been banned from this site in its current or previous guise multiple times (opinion) I haven’t (fact), you have (fact). However you try to dress it up, ‘we play better when Cabango plays’ is your opinion. If it was fact, he would play whenever available.
Perhaps Moneyball would be a good moniker next time you have to create a new account.
Condescension over. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:19 - Apr 8 with 576 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:14 - Apr 8 by jack247 |
Condescension isn’t my MO at all, however I’m happy to run with it for the remainder of this post.
If it was, I’d have been banned from this site in its current or previous guise multiple times (opinion) I haven’t (fact), you have (fact). However you try to dress it up, ‘we play better when Cabango plays’ is your opinion. If it was fact, he would play whenever available.
Perhaps Moneyball would be a good moniker next time you have to create a new account.
Condescension over. |
Your posts have been full of condescension right throughout the thread. Not sure why that is something you would deny.
You don't get banned for being condescending. Unless I have missed something, otherwise I agree you would have been banned. But luckily it's a trait often found amongst football forum users that want to portray their point when the facts suggest otherwise. You aren't the first and wont be the last.
Playing better when Cabango there is a fact, not an opinion. Again, more possession, better results, score more goals and concede less. You don't seem to like that as you are unable to marry it up with your own pre-concieved thoughts. Exactly the same as when you assumed the ''vast majority'' of Cabango's games were in the center, stats told you that you were wrong about that too.
I am happy for you to list Naughtons games there and demonstrate how we played better than the games where Cabango did. But you will have one hell of a job on your hands considering literally nothing says that is the case and everything points to the opposite. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 9:21]
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:22 - Apr 8 with 571 views | onehunglow |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:19 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
Your posts have been full of condescension right throughout the thread. Not sure why that is something you would deny.
You don't get banned for being condescending. Unless I have missed something, otherwise I agree you would have been banned. But luckily it's a trait often found amongst football forum users that want to portray their point when the facts suggest otherwise. You aren't the first and wont be the last.
Playing better when Cabango there is a fact, not an opinion. Again, more possession, better results, score more goals and concede less. You don't seem to like that as you are unable to marry it up with your own pre-concieved thoughts. Exactly the same as when you assumed the ''vast majority'' of Cabango's games were in the center, stats told you that you were wrong about that too.
I am happy for you to list Naughtons games there and demonstrate how we played better than the games where Cabango did. But you will have one hell of a job on your hands considering literally nothing says that is the case and everything points to the opposite. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 9:21]
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But Dr P,you need to look in the mirror as THAT post of your is condescending.Not the worse form of insult though.
Ive been accused of writing patronising or condecending posts.
I can't help help it if people feel intimidated by the written word. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:24 - Apr 8 with 573 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:22 - Apr 8 by onehunglow |
But Dr P,you need to look in the mirror as THAT post of your is condescending.Not the worse form of insult though.
Ive been accused of writing patronising or condecending posts.
I can't help help it if people feel intimidated by the written word. |
Which part do you believe is condescending exactly? Can you quote the part you are referring to? (Hopefully that will negate the ''all of it'' reply that people use when they aren't exactly sure).
Condescension does not lead to intimidation. I am not sure how you have linked the two. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:29 - Apr 8 with 567 views | Nortbankboy |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:24 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
Which part do you believe is condescending exactly? Can you quote the part you are referring to? (Hopefully that will negate the ''all of it'' reply that people use when they aren't exactly sure).
Condescension does not lead to intimidation. I am not sure how you have linked the two. |
He should have been rotating plays and formations to keep everyone fresh | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:33 - Apr 8 with 566 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:29 - Apr 8 by Nortbankboy |
He should have been rotating plays and formations to keep everyone fresh |
Everyone? We clearly have many players not up to scratch, so can’t say I agree there.
As has been said on the other thread, it takes 4 days maximum for a player to recover from the game before. Any longer shows little to no benefit.
Resting players needlessly can break the rhythm of a player, you see it all the time with strikers for example. We saw it with Bidwell against Cardiff too, being fresh isn’t always a good thing. As long as a player has had 3-4 days since his last match there should be little to no decline in performance. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:36 - Apr 8 with 563 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:19 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
Your posts have been full of condescension right throughout the thread. Not sure why that is something you would deny.
You don't get banned for being condescending. Unless I have missed something, otherwise I agree you would have been banned. But luckily it's a trait often found amongst football forum users that want to portray their point when the facts suggest otherwise. You aren't the first and wont be the last.
Playing better when Cabango there is a fact, not an opinion. Again, more possession, better results, score more goals and concede less. You don't seem to like that as you are unable to marry it up with your own pre-concieved thoughts. Exactly the same as when you assumed the ''vast majority'' of Cabango's games were in the center, stats told you that you were wrong about that too.
I am happy for you to list Naughtons games there and demonstrate how we played better than the games where Cabango did. But you will have one hell of a job on your hands considering literally nothing says that is the case and everything points to the opposite. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 9:21]
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All opinion.
If you could just explain why Cabango would ever be left on the bench by a football professional, if as you say, playing Naughton ahead of him factually weakens our team? | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:41 - Apr 8 with 556 views | onehunglow |
Frankly,it doesn't really matter which players are selected right now.All are utterly bereft of skill,fitness and of a "positive" mind set;which begs the question-Is Steve giving out negative or positive vibes at interviews? | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:43 - Apr 8 with 557 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:36 - Apr 8 by jack247 |
All opinion.
If you could just explain why Cabango would ever be left on the bench by a football professional, if as you say, playing Naughton ahead of him factually weakens our team? |
None of it is opinion, not from me anyway.
You would have to ask Cooper that, I am not the one that has done it. Cabango has more appearances than Naughton this year. Many better players have had others been given the nod ahead of them, it is not a rarity.
That's football. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 09:48 - Apr 8 with 553 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:41 - Apr 8 by onehunglow |
Frankly,it doesn't really matter which players are selected right now.All are utterly bereft of skill,fitness and of a "positive" mind set;which begs the question-Is Steve giving out negative or positive vibes at interviews? |
Now that is an argument that holds far more weight. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 11:02 - Apr 8 with 528 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:43 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
None of it is opinion, not from me anyway.
You would have to ask Cooper that, I am not the one that has done it. Cabango has more appearances than Naughton this year. Many better players have had others been given the nod ahead of them, it is not a rarity.
That's football. |
Well yes, because with Roberts being a virtual ever present, Naughton has only played one position. Cabango played in a back four the other day and plays the central role when Bennett isn’t available, sometimes he plays there ahead of Bennett.
If it were fact that Cabango in place of Naughton as right sided CB made us a better team. He’d invariably play there. As it happens it’s an opinion and one that Cooper doesn’t share.
I agree with him, you don’t. That’s it. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:07 - Apr 8 with 525 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 09:41 - Apr 8 by onehunglow |
Frankly,it doesn't really matter which players are selected right now.All are utterly bereft of skill,fitness and of a "positive" mind set;which begs the question-Is Steve giving out negative or positive vibes at interviews? |
Yes, well that’s a different point and one I completely agree with. We’re going out looking as if we are hoping to hang on for a 0-0, even against the Birminghams and Prestons. Reminds me of Clement and the latter part of Carvahals reigns.
I don’t know if that’s mindset, fatigue or anything else, but I agree, whoever we start at the moment we look shot.
I was more optimistic at the start of this thread, as although we’d just lost to Cardiff, I thought the break and upcoming kinder fixtures would galvanise us. I was wrong about that. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:18 - Apr 8 with 512 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:02 - Apr 8 by jack247 |
Well yes, because with Roberts being a virtual ever present, Naughton has only played one position. Cabango played in a back four the other day and plays the central role when Bennett isn’t available, sometimes he plays there ahead of Bennett.
If it were fact that Cabango in place of Naughton as right sided CB made us a better team. He’d invariably play there. As it happens it’s an opinion and one that Cooper doesn’t share.
I agree with him, you don’t. That’s it. |
That's not true at all though is it. Unless you think Cooper is spot on with his team selection every time? As I said, players being selected ahead of someone who is better is not a rarity and most certainly is not proof of anything other than someone's opinion going against simple facts of the matter.
For example going by what you said there, your opinion instantly flips the second Cooper starts playing Cabango instead. You go from saying we weren't a better team when he played there to ''We were a better team after all''. Yet nothing would have changed other than the managers opinion. Seems a bit powder puff to me. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 11:22]
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| “We need to rotate” on 11:28 - Apr 8 with 499 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:18 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
That's not true at all though is it. Unless you think Cooper is spot on with his team selection every time? As I said, players being selected ahead of someone who is better is not a rarity and most certainly is not proof of anything other than someone's opinion going against simple facts of the matter.
For example going by what you said there, your opinion instantly flips the second Cooper starts playing Cabango instead. You go from saying we weren't a better team when he played there to ''We were a better team after all''. Yet nothing would have changed other than the managers opinion. Seems a bit powder puff to me. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 11:22]
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Do you know the difference between a right sided centre half in a 3, to a centre half in a two? Genuine question. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:29 - Apr 8 with 497 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:28 - Apr 8 by 34dfgdf54 |
Do you know the difference between a right sided centre half in a 3, to a centre half in a two? Genuine question. |
Yep, you?
We are much better factually when Cabango plays either. | |
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| “We need to rotate” on 11:50 - Apr 8 with 490 views | jack247 |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:18 - Apr 8 by Dr_Parnassus |
That's not true at all though is it. Unless you think Cooper is spot on with his team selection every time? As I said, players being selected ahead of someone who is better is not a rarity and most certainly is not proof of anything other than someone's opinion going against simple facts of the matter.
For example going by what you said there, your opinion instantly flips the second Cooper starts playing Cabango instead. You go from saying we weren't a better team when he played there to ''We were a better team after all''. Yet nothing would have changed other than the managers opinion. Seems a bit powder puff to me. [Post edited 8 Apr 2021 11:22]
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No.
If he plays Cabango for a sustained run at RCB, then he has changed his opinion. People are allowed to do that. I’ve certainly changed my opinion on players many times.
Cooper is picking based on opinion, he has to, because it’s not an exact science and one player can’t factually be better than another. He can factually have a better pass completion rate, he cannot factually be a better player. It’s subjective and it’s opinions.
Either way, you’ve said yourself we aren’t going to agree on this, we’re now just bickering over the definition of fact and opinion. | | | |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:57 - Apr 8 with 488 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| “We need to rotate” on 11:50 - Apr 8 by jack247 |
No.
If he plays Cabango for a sustained run at RCB, then he has changed his opinion. People are allowed to do that. I’ve certainly changed my opinion on players many times.
Cooper is picking based on opinion, he has to, because it’s not an exact science and one player can’t factually be better than another. He can factually have a better pass completion rate, he cannot factually be a better player. It’s subjective and it’s opinions.
Either way, you’ve said yourself we aren’t going to agree on this, we’re now just bickering over the definition of fact and opinion. |
Yes I know, but I am talking about you.
Judging from what you have said, all it will take for you to also change your opinion on what has already gone on - id for him to change his. Right?
Not talking about pass completion rate, I am saying as a team we have played better this season with Cabango there than Naughton. We have more of the ball, score more, concede less and pick up more points. We shoehorned that into a myriad of things to try and show the opposite yet it always came back the same.
My opinion is based on the facts not someone else's opinion. For me to change my opinion someone would have to demonstrate that we are a worse team with Cabango there and show evidence of it. That's impossible because everything points to the opposite. | |
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