| Universal Basic Income 21:26 - May 14 with 6756 views | Gwyn737 |
https://www.theguardian.com/so
Economics isn’t an area of expertise for me. I can’t see how this would work. Can anyone here mount a case? |  | | |  |
| Universal Basic Income on 09:40 - May 15 with 1416 views | majorraglan |
| Universal Basic Income on 09:30 - May 15 by trampie |
You can see the English powers that be being against this, if that was the case it would be another reason for Scotland, Wales etc to breakaway.
They reckon it could become the greatest 'benefit' for the people in this country since the NHS , but will the power brokers and leaders in London go for it ?, considering the right wing rules and England let's be honest and fair is very right wing, would the likes of Scotland and Wales have to break away to get it (full fat version). |
I am neither left or right, I have beliefs which straddle both camps. I’d need convincing this was viable. I’d also want to make sure it’s not a gravy train for the lazy etc. Compulsory training and work for the dole undertaking community activities improving society would have to go hand in glove with something like this. Loafing at home watching TV would not be an option. | | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 09:57 - May 15 with 1385 views | trampie |
| Universal Basic Income on 09:40 - May 15 by majorraglan |
I am neither left or right, I have beliefs which straddle both camps. I’d need convincing this was viable. I’d also want to make sure it’s not a gravy train for the lazy etc. Compulsory training and work for the dole undertaking community activities improving society would have to go hand in glove with something like this. Loafing at home watching TV would not be an option. |
As regards the possibility of less and less employment in the future due to automation, computers, sweat shops overseas etc, then loafing at home is very much an option, you loaf at home for basic income or you do an ordinary job for minimum wage plus basic income, comparing the two then work would pay in that instance, at the moment it doesn't as some are better off on benefits than working the theory is that would not be case under a full UBI.
This proposed trial I would guess would not be looking at it from the point of view of a lack of work being available for all per se, but it's something that might happen in the future, they reckon that driverless lorries, vans and cars plus delivery drones in the future will put loads out of work and then there might be no choice but to look at UBI. [Post edited 15 May 2021 9:58]
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| Universal Basic Income on 10:27 - May 15 with 1358 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal Basic Income on 22:01 - May 14 by Catullus |
I think the word "universal" gives it away! It means EVERYBODY will get it. |
Will everyone get the same though? | | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 10:36 - May 15 with 1349 views | trampie |
| Universal Basic Income on 10:27 - May 15 by controversial_jack |
Will everyone get the same though? |
No idea about this trial (expect it to be a small scale, small amount of money, if it's only giving to poorer people then it's not the real thing) but the idea for the real thing is everybody gets the same money - enough money to live on. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 10:59 - May 15 with 1330 views | felixstowe_jack |
They did the same in Venezuela. They paid farm workers a universal basic wage which was more than they got working. Results they stopped working, the farms stopped producing food , Venezuela had to start importing food which the could no longer afford , resulting in starvation and poverty for all. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 11:08 - May 15 with 1309 views | trampie |
| Universal Basic Income on 21:35 - May 14 by Flashberryjack |
If anyone can make it work, Drakeford can, if he can't, he'll just blame Boris. |
Drakeford is cooking on gas at the moment, he is on fire. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 13:08 - May 15 with 1239 views | onehunglow |
If some people can get by by the state providing then they will.No point in going to work for a lowly wage.
Problem is we all want big wages as possible but won’t admit that ,saying we are interested in the welfare of the poor deprived etc. Massive hypocrisy again.
We need a country where kids are yearning to be educated and do as well as they can in life .This entails hard graft and perseverance .
It also requires getting minds free of class boundaries
Be free | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 14:19 - May 15 with 1211 views | johnlangy |
| Universal Basic Income on 09:11 - May 15 by majorraglan |
I know some elements of the Conservative party want to increase the minimum wage well beyond where it is now, the theory being if companies pay more then the state won’t have to pay so much in universal credit / tax credits or whatever it’s called. |
I've always wondered about a system where people working for Tesco, for example, are paid so little (a large number of them) that they have to have their income subsidised by benefits.
Meanwhile Tesco are/were making billions in profits. | | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 15:15 - May 15 with 1185 views | Flashberryjack |
| Universal Basic Income on 22:15 - May 14 by Gwyn737 |
I’m with you on prescriptions. Take the money and fund NHS dentists could be a good shout. |
There are lots of people taking long term medication, for many things such as cancer, heart, lung and disease and many more serious illnesses, free prescriptions for these people is fantastic, and long may it continue IMO.
Although, I do agree free prescriptions for short term ailments shouldn't be free. |  |
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| Universal Basic Income on 15:34 - May 15 with 1177 views | Gwyn737 |
| Universal Basic Income on 15:15 - May 15 by Flashberryjack |
There are lots of people taking long term medication, for many things such as cancer, heart, lung and disease and many more serious illnesses, free prescriptions for these people is fantastic, and long may it continue IMO.
Although, I do agree free prescriptions for short term ailments shouldn't be free. |
Valid point - I hadn’t thought of that 👠| | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 15:59 - May 15 with 1159 views | Catullus |
| Universal Basic Income on 09:57 - May 15 by trampie |
As regards the possibility of less and less employment in the future due to automation, computers, sweat shops overseas etc, then loafing at home is very much an option, you loaf at home for basic income or you do an ordinary job for minimum wage plus basic income, comparing the two then work would pay in that instance, at the moment it doesn't as some are better off on benefits than working the theory is that would not be case under a full UBI.
This proposed trial I would guess would not be looking at it from the point of view of a lack of work being available for all per se, but it's something that might happen in the future, they reckon that driverless lorries, vans and cars plus delivery drones in the future will put loads out of work and then there might be no choice but to look at UBI. [Post edited 15 May 2021 9:58]
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Staying at home shouldn't be an option. Therr are always things to do, even if they were part time such as clearing rubbish, keeping publc spaces in good condition. There will still be jobs though and you can't allow people to just sit around all day, it happens now and look at the social complications. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 15:59 - May 15 with 1158 views | Catullus |
| Universal Basic Income on 10:27 - May 15 by controversial_jack |
Will everyone get the same though? |
Did you read the link? | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 16:11 - May 15 with 1141 views | trampie |
| Universal Basic Income on 15:59 - May 15 by Catullus |
Staying at home shouldn't be an option. Therr are always things to do, even if they were part time such as clearing rubbish, keeping publc spaces in good condition. There will still be jobs though and you can't allow people to just sit around all day, it happens now and look at the social complications. |
The thinking is to give people a choice if and when we reach the point of not enough jobs to go around for everyone.
The incentive is if you want a nice car, a nice house, nice holidays you work, if you do not work you get a basic income just enough to survive and that's it.
The thing is some might retire after 30 odd years work in their early fifties just as health issue like arthritis is kicking in and that frees up a job for a younger person, is society going to make somebody like that pick up litter ?, I wouldn't have thought so.
Out of interest what do you do to contribute Cat ?, I understand you have hip issues but are of working age. [Post edited 15 May 2021 16:20]
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| Universal Basic Income on 16:17 - May 15 with 1124 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal Basic Income on 10:59 - May 15 by felixstowe_jack |
They did the same in Venezuela. They paid farm workers a universal basic wage which was more than they got working. Results they stopped working, the farms stopped producing food , Venezuela had to start importing food which the could no longer afford , resulting in starvation and poverty for all. |
That';s not what happened in Venezuela | | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 16:58 - May 15 with 1092 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Universal Basic Income on 16:17 - May 15 by controversial_jack |
That';s not what happened in Venezuela |
Do tell us what happened then. The richest county in South America with the worlds largest oil reserves. The oil companies nationalised, all the money doled out to the people. No money invested in maintaining oils fields or new oil production facilities. Venezuela cannot afford to buy food or medicine for their relatively small population. Millions left the country just to gind something to eat.
Socialism failed again the people impoverished. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 17:24 - May 15 with 1070 views | trampie |
| Universal Basic Income on 16:58 - May 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Do tell us what happened then. The richest county in South America with the worlds largest oil reserves. The oil companies nationalised, all the money doled out to the people. No money invested in maintaining oils fields or new oil production facilities. Venezuela cannot afford to buy food or medicine for their relatively small population. Millions left the country just to gind something to eat.
Socialism failed again the people impoverished. |
https://www.vox.com/future-per
No mention of Venezuela that I could see in the article. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 17:36 - May 15 with 1062 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal Basic Income on 16:58 - May 15 by felixstowe_jack |
Do tell us what happened then. The richest county in South America with the worlds largest oil reserves. The oil companies nationalised, all the money doled out to the people. No money invested in maintaining oils fields or new oil production facilities. Venezuela cannot afford to buy food or medicine for their relatively small population. Millions left the country just to gind something to eat.
Socialism failed again the people impoverished. |
There was no UBI in Venezuela, there were govt subsidies for various groups etc
Venezuela under Chavez raised millions out of poverty. They had one of the biggest student populations too.
Venezuela has a population of 28 million, which isn't small
Chavez, was voted in many times with extremely fair elections.Jimmy Carter supervised one and said it was better than many he had seen in the US
I'm afraid you have taken the right wing agenda once again | | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 17:57 - May 15 with 1046 views | Flashberryjack |
| Universal Basic Income on 17:36 - May 15 by controversial_jack |
There was no UBI in Venezuela, there were govt subsidies for various groups etc
Venezuela under Chavez raised millions out of poverty. They had one of the biggest student populations too.
Venezuela has a population of 28 million, which isn't small
Chavez, was voted in many times with extremely fair elections.Jimmy Carter supervised one and said it was better than many he had seen in the US
I'm afraid you have taken the right wing agenda once again |
Venezuela is a fantastic example of how to run a country financially, we should try it, they had oil, we've got water, go for it Mr Drakeford, I have full confidence in you. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 18:11 - May 15 with 1031 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal Basic Income on 17:57 - May 15 by Flashberryjack |
Venezuela is a fantastic example of how to run a country financially, we should try it, they had oil, we've got water, go for it Mr Drakeford, I have full confidence in you. |
They also had sanctions against them, interference from the USA and big corps.Venezuela didn't fail because of socialism it failed because capitalism didn't like to see the alternative. The same with Cuba. | | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 18:40 - May 15 with 1014 views | Catullus |
| Universal Basic Income on 14:19 - May 15 by johnlangy |
I've always wondered about a system where people working for Tesco, for example, are paid so little (a large number of them) that they have to have their income subsidised by benefits.
Meanwhile Tesco are/were making billions in profits. |
It's a shocker really. The tax payer subsidises wages so the few at the corporate trough can have massive wages, bonuses and share dividends.
What to do about it though? Could we limit the number of shares that a company can issue and then have a legal limit on the number any individual can own. I think back to Royal Mail's sell off. Posties were told they could buy a small amount of shares, individuals could also buy limited amounts and the bulk of shares ended up in corporate hands. If we want to have a fairer world and redistribute wealth, that's a good place to start.
Problem is, if we tax profits more they just put up prices so the profit margin keeps up. | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 18:49 - May 15 with 1000 views | jack_lord |
| Universal Basic Income on 13:08 - May 15 by onehunglow |
If some people can get by by the state providing then they will.No point in going to work for a lowly wage.
Problem is we all want big wages as possible but won’t admit that ,saying we are interested in the welfare of the poor deprived etc. Massive hypocrisy again.
We need a country where kids are yearning to be educated and do as well as they can in life .This entails hard graft and perseverance .
It also requires getting minds free of class boundaries
Be free |
Definitely agree with your first paragraph.
Second one, not everyone but the hypocrisy exists.
Third yes we do need kids yearning for education but (generalising) will a factory worker be annoyed they were educated and there aren't enough jobs out there for their education and what is hard graft? |  |
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| Universal Basic Income on 18:54 - May 15 with 999 views | Gwyn737 |
| Universal Basic Income on 18:40 - May 15 by Catullus |
It's a shocker really. The tax payer subsidises wages so the few at the corporate trough can have massive wages, bonuses and share dividends.
What to do about it though? Could we limit the number of shares that a company can issue and then have a legal limit on the number any individual can own. I think back to Royal Mail's sell off. Posties were told they could buy a small amount of shares, individuals could also buy limited amounts and the bulk of shares ended up in corporate hands. If we want to have a fairer world and redistribute wealth, that's a good place to start.
Problem is, if we tax profits more they just put up prices so the profit margin keeps up. |
Raise minimum wage? | | | |
| Universal Basic Income on 19:01 - May 15 with 989 views | Catullus |
| Universal Basic Income on 18:54 - May 15 by Gwyn737 |
Raise minimum wage? |
They absolutely should but the problem is the supermarkets have been getting around recent rises by putting more automated tills in and cutting staff numbers.
Maybe we are heading for a world where the UBI is standard, nobody works for their money but we all have socially responsible duties that we sign up for, things like looking after the elderly, keeping public spaces clean and tidy...jobs basically but we absolutely ALL have one and we work according to our abilities. So a disabled person has a role they can do, a physically fit person has a more demanding role but we all work the same number of hours.
Maybe one day we'll abolish money! | |
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| Universal Basic Income on 20:10 - May 15 with 962 views | jack_lord |
| Universal Basic Income on 19:01 - May 15 by Catullus |
They absolutely should but the problem is the supermarkets have been getting around recent rises by putting more automated tills in and cutting staff numbers.
Maybe we are heading for a world where the UBI is standard, nobody works for their money but we all have socially responsible duties that we sign up for, things like looking after the elderly, keeping public spaces clean and tidy...jobs basically but we absolutely ALL have one and we work according to our abilities. So a disabled person has a role they can do, a physically fit person has a more demanding role but we all work the same number of hours.
Maybe one day we'll abolish money! |
That second paragraph sounds like a communist ideal. | |
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