| US/Mexico Border on 22:30 - Aug 6 with 916 views | BarrySwan |
| US/Mexico Border on 15:49 - Jun 9 by Catullus |
The USA and UK have these things in common, we object to people trying to come here when we have done things to ruin the land of their birth. We have destroyed home, entire towns, we have radicalised people by taking away eveerything they had and then we moan about immigrants.
It's a tricky one for me because I think our immigartion needs stronger controls but then, I'm against going to war on foreign soil. All too often it's not to do with humaitarian needs by money and power, oil and resources.
If we're going to stem the tide of migrants we need to help make their countries better, make them good places again but can we put that Genie back in the bottle? |
Really?
I don't remember doing any of those things you mention in foreign climes.
Aren't you getting a touch carried away in your generalisations? |  | |  |
| US/Mexico Border on 22:48 - Aug 6 with 911 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 22:21 - Aug 6 by Lohengrin |
” I’m still convinced he’s too decisive to lead a superpower.”
Did you mean to say he was ‘divisive’ there Gwyn or was it a criticism of his unwillingness to compromise? |
You’re right - I meant devisive! Blummin’ clumsy fingers. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 01:23 - Aug 7 with 886 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 22:09 - Aug 6 by Gwyn737 |
Has he pulled the wall down that Mexico paid for?
Trump and Harris do nowt for me, but after seeing Trump’s antics around the women’s USA football team, I’m still convinced he’s too decisive to lead a superpower. |
He has already led a superpower nation for 4 years and it thrived both economically and internationally. The domestic unrest towards the end was due to media and Democrat collusion that turned the George Floyd killing from a “police killing” to a “racist police killing”.
He can say some inappropriate things, but he’s not all together wrong though and just says what a lot of people are thinking. Megan Rapinoe is a horrific example of a female athlete, demanding things she hasn’t earned and too stupid to realise that despite not deserving it - she is privileged enough to have been getting it anyway.
But it’s not enough, they then wanted preferential treatment. Then she turned her focus on imposing her warped view of the world on everyone else in other industries, insisting she is hard done by and trying to redefine what the world sees as sexy, of course putting herself forward as that object of sexiness. She is an activist brat without any particular aim.
If she had focussed on her football for the last 4 years instead of pretending she and women in general were victims, then they may well have done better. It is ironic after claiming how good they were, they then go on to lose against Canada. |  |
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| US/Mexico Border on 09:21 - Aug 7 with 837 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 01:23 - Aug 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
He has already led a superpower nation for 4 years and it thrived both economically and internationally. The domestic unrest towards the end was due to media and Democrat collusion that turned the George Floyd killing from a “police killing” to a “racist police killing”.
He can say some inappropriate things, but he’s not all together wrong though and just says what a lot of people are thinking. Megan Rapinoe is a horrific example of a female athlete, demanding things she hasn’t earned and too stupid to realise that despite not deserving it - she is privileged enough to have been getting it anyway.
But it’s not enough, they then wanted preferential treatment. Then she turned her focus on imposing her warped view of the world on everyone else in other industries, insisting she is hard done by and trying to redefine what the world sees as sexy, of course putting herself forward as that object of sexiness. She is an activist brat without any particular aim.
If she had focussed on her football for the last 4 years instead of pretending she and women in general were victims, then they may well have done better. It is ironic after claiming how good they were, they then go on to lose against Canada. |
You certainly can’t argue with Trump’s economic success but there’s certainly a case to made that he benefitted from Obama’s success economically for the 8 years previously.
Of course, we can’t compare fairly as Trump was a one term president so we’ll never know if he’d have topped Obama’s best single year growth rate.
The fact Trump was a one term president was at least partly down to his inability to tone down his rhetoric. He could have expressed his disapproval without calling the team leftist woke losers, before allowing his fundraising team to call for donations and in return getting a gold medal with his face on it as he’s a ‘winner’
As for losing because of political posturing, it’s the same argument levelled at Rashford who “should have practiced penalties instead of feeding hungry kids.”
I don’t buy it. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 11:38 - Aug 7 with 824 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 09:21 - Aug 7 by Gwyn737 |
You certainly can’t argue with Trump’s economic success but there’s certainly a case to made that he benefitted from Obama’s success economically for the 8 years previously.
Of course, we can’t compare fairly as Trump was a one term president so we’ll never know if he’d have topped Obama’s best single year growth rate.
The fact Trump was a one term president was at least partly down to his inability to tone down his rhetoric. He could have expressed his disapproval without calling the team leftist woke losers, before allowing his fundraising team to call for donations and in return getting a gold medal with his face on it as he’s a ‘winner’
As for losing because of political posturing, it’s the same argument levelled at Rashford who “should have practiced penalties instead of feeding hungry kids.”
I don’t buy it. |
Never heard Obama’s tenure be described as economic success before. I would say Obama’s economic failures were probably the overriding factor in him becoming one of the most ineffective Presidents in modern history. He presided over one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression.
As for not getting re-elected, that’s clearly not what accounted for that. The insistence of postal voting, the media bombardment of propaganda for years on end. Hollywood. The leftist riots. You name it, they tried every trick in the book in that election and they only just squeezed home after it looked done and dusted for a while.
I wouldn’t liken Rapinoe to Rashford at all. Rashford is helping the community, it’s a positive message. Rapinoe is an activist where she is calling things out that aren’t needing to be called out, she spent ages championing equal pay before realising she was getting it.. in fact overpaid in comparison, then moved on to other self promoting causes while wanting increased preferential treatment.
I would liken it more to someone like Ronda Rousey or Conor McGregor when they went off to do their things that started to define their identity away from the sport they were in. Rousey ended up getting smashed twice and leaving the sport and McGregor has won once in 5 years.
Rashford helping to feed kids isn’t in the same realm as greed based self identifying activism. Her focus absolutely doesn’t seem to be football, you ask your average Layman who Rapinoe is they would just as likely mention her extra curricular persona as opposed to her role as a footballer. That’s the difference.
But either way it’s hard to disagree with what he said. | |
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| US/Mexico Border on 14:38 - Aug 7 with 809 views | A_Fans_Dad |
834 unaccompanied children at the border on the 5th.
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| US/Mexico Border on 15:39 - Aug 7 with 798 views | DJack |
| US/Mexico Border on 11:38 - Aug 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
Never heard Obama’s tenure be described as economic success before. I would say Obama’s economic failures were probably the overriding factor in him becoming one of the most ineffective Presidents in modern history. He presided over one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression.
As for not getting re-elected, that’s clearly not what accounted for that. The insistence of postal voting, the media bombardment of propaganda for years on end. Hollywood. The leftist riots. You name it, they tried every trick in the book in that election and they only just squeezed home after it looked done and dusted for a while.
I wouldn’t liken Rapinoe to Rashford at all. Rashford is helping the community, it’s a positive message. Rapinoe is an activist where she is calling things out that aren’t needing to be called out, she spent ages championing equal pay before realising she was getting it.. in fact overpaid in comparison, then moved on to other self promoting causes while wanting increased preferential treatment.
I would liken it more to someone like Ronda Rousey or Conor McGregor when they went off to do their things that started to define their identity away from the sport they were in. Rousey ended up getting smashed twice and leaving the sport and McGregor has won once in 5 years.
Rashford helping to feed kids isn’t in the same realm as greed based self identifying activism. Her focus absolutely doesn’t seem to be football, you ask your average Layman who Rapinoe is they would just as likely mention her extra curricular persona as opposed to her role as a footballer. That’s the difference.
But either way it’s hard to disagree with what he said. |
The recession started under Bush - and I'm not blaming him entirely.
George W. Bush (2001—2009)
President George W. Bush faced the 9/11 attacks, Hurricane Katrina, and the 2008 financial crisis. First, he fought the 2001 recession with tax cuts. He responded to the 9/11 attacks by creating the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and launching the war on terror.
In 2005, Hurricane Katrina caused a record $170 billion in damage (adjusted for inflation).22
Bush responded to the 2008 financial crisis by sending out tax rebate checks.23 He nationalized mortgage agencies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and insurance giant AIG. He also approved a bank bailout package to prevent a financial collapse.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/
Barack Obama (2009—2017)
President Barack Obama ended the 2008 recession with the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), which cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded public works projects. He bailed out the U.S. auto industry, saving jobs.
The 2010 Affordable Care Act expanded health insurance and Medicaid. It slowed the rise of health care costs by encouraging more people to receive preventive care so they wouldn’t have to use expensive hospital emergency rooms as their primary source of care.
The 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act strengthened bank regulations. The Obama tax cuts fought ongoing slow growth. Obama ended the Iraq War and wound down the war in Afghanistan.
Obama began negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). He also brokered the International Climate Agreement to address climate change.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/
Donald Trump (2017—2020)
Before the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic, President Donald Trump had no recessions and no new wars during his term in office. Nevertheless, he increased spending and cut taxes. The Fed responded to those expansionary fiscal policies by raising interest rates.
Trump advocated protectionism. He withdrew the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, renegotiated NAFTA, and launched a trade war with China and other trading partners.
In March 2020, Trump declared a state of emergency as the coronavirus pandemic broke out in the United States. Nonessential businesses closed, and Americans sheltered in place. Stimulus measures, such as the $2 trillion CARES Act, were not enough to keep the economy afloat. The GDP averaged 0.325% growth per quarter.2
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/ |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| US/Mexico Border on 15:57 - Aug 7 with 797 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 15:39 - Aug 7 by DJack |
The recession started under Bush - and I'm not blaming him entirely.
George W. Bush (2001—2009)
President George W. Bush faced the 9/11 attacks, Hurricane Katrina, and the 2008 financial crisis. First, he fought the 2001 recession with tax cuts. He responded to the 9/11 attacks by creating the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and launching the war on terror.
In 2005, Hurricane Katrina caused a record $170 billion in damage (adjusted for inflation).22
Bush responded to the 2008 financial crisis by sending out tax rebate checks.23 He nationalized mortgage agencies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and insurance giant AIG. He also approved a bank bailout package to prevent a financial collapse.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/
Barack Obama (2009—2017)
President Barack Obama ended the 2008 recession with the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), which cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded public works projects. He bailed out the U.S. auto industry, saving jobs.
The 2010 Affordable Care Act expanded health insurance and Medicaid. It slowed the rise of health care costs by encouraging more people to receive preventive care so they wouldn’t have to use expensive hospital emergency rooms as their primary source of care.
The 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act strengthened bank regulations. The Obama tax cuts fought ongoing slow growth. Obama ended the Iraq War and wound down the war in Afghanistan.
Obama began negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). He also brokered the International Climate Agreement to address climate change.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/
Donald Trump (2017—2020)
Before the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic, President Donald Trump had no recessions and no new wars during his term in office. Nevertheless, he increased spending and cut taxes. The Fed responded to those expansionary fiscal policies by raising interest rates.
Trump advocated protectionism. He withdrew the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, renegotiated NAFTA, and launched a trade war with China and other trading partners.
In March 2020, Trump declared a state of emergency as the coronavirus pandemic broke out in the United States. Nonessential businesses closed, and Americans sheltered in place. Stimulus measures, such as the $2 trillion CARES Act, were not enough to keep the economy afloat. The GDP averaged 0.325% growth per quarter.2
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/ |
What point are you making? I didn’t blame it on him, I said he presided over it. That was his chance to make correct financial decisions with the situation the country was facing, he didn’t and the country suffered.
Obama’s economic handling was one of the worst in modern history.
It’s a widely accepted fact on both sides, why are we pretending otherwise?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/ameri
https://www.google.com.au/amp/
https://www.google.com.au/amp/ | |
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| US/Mexico Border on 16:30 - Aug 7 with 791 views | DJack |
Oh I know you used the word presided and those not aware of the history would assume that it was his fault. He inherited a recession and turned round a GDP drop of -2.5% to an average of over 2% rise in GDP over the rest of his Presidency - this after the greatest recession since the Great Depression.
I've also previously stated on this board that I found his Presidency a little disapointing. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| US/Mexico Border on 17:08 - Aug 7 with 782 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 16:30 - Aug 7 by DJack |
Oh I know you used the word presided and those not aware of the history would assume that it was his fault. He inherited a recession and turned round a GDP drop of -2.5% to an average of over 2% rise in GDP over the rest of his Presidency - this after the greatest recession since the Great Depression.
I've also previously stated on this board that I found his Presidency a little disapointing. |
I used that word because it accurately describes it.
The start of the financial crisis was not Obama’s fault, his ridiculous decision making after it started which then exacerbated it absolutely was. Which is why he will go down as one of the worst presidents in modern American history. Certainly in my adult lifetime.
He was there for two terms and I would struggle to name 5 genuinely positive things he did off the top of my head, both domestically and internationally. I could probably name twice that of the awful things he did though.
I have a feeling the Biden and Kamala pairing will be much of the same, but potentially to a worse degree. It’s not been a good start has it, let’s be fair. | |
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| US/Mexico Border on 14:37 - Aug 13 with 693 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 09:21 - Aug 7 by Gwyn737 |
You certainly can’t argue with Trump’s economic success but there’s certainly a case to made that he benefitted from Obama’s success economically for the 8 years previously.
Of course, we can’t compare fairly as Trump was a one term president so we’ll never know if he’d have topped Obama’s best single year growth rate.
The fact Trump was a one term president was at least partly down to his inability to tone down his rhetoric. He could have expressed his disapproval without calling the team leftist woke losers, before allowing his fundraising team to call for donations and in return getting a gold medal with his face on it as he’s a ‘winner’
As for losing because of political posturing, it’s the same argument levelled at Rashford who “should have practiced penalties instead of feeding hungry kids.”
I don’t buy it. |
Gwyn, came across this earlier and reminded me of this discussion.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/
Carli Lloyd who scored two in the bronze medal match also thinks the teams activism has taken the focus off football, and that’s coming from within the camp itself.
“Since the time Megan Rapinoe began kneeling in 2016, Lloyd expressed her opinion on the matter. She said at the time that while she supported Rapinoe, she found the situation to be distracting to the team. She felt the focus switched from the team and its performance to questions and topics about protests.”
It’s bound to have had an impact on performances. | |
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| US/Mexico Border on 16:05 - Aug 13 with 665 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 14:37 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Gwyn, came across this earlier and reminded me of this discussion.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/
Carli Lloyd who scored two in the bronze medal match also thinks the teams activism has taken the focus off football, and that’s coming from within the camp itself.
“Since the time Megan Rapinoe began kneeling in 2016, Lloyd expressed her opinion on the matter. She said at the time that while she supported Rapinoe, she found the situation to be distracting to the team. She felt the focus switched from the team and its performance to questions and topics about protests.”
It’s bound to have had an impact on performances. |
An interesting read.
Impossible to prove though, isn’t it. Didn’t seem to impact on her performance (scoring 2] or Rapinoe’s, who also scored two. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 16:35 - Aug 13 with 658 views | londonlisa2001 |
| US/Mexico Border on 14:37 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Gwyn, came across this earlier and reminded me of this discussion.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/
Carli Lloyd who scored two in the bronze medal match also thinks the teams activism has taken the focus off football, and that’s coming from within the camp itself.
“Since the time Megan Rapinoe began kneeling in 2016, Lloyd expressed her opinion on the matter. She said at the time that while she supported Rapinoe, she found the situation to be distracting to the team. She felt the focus switched from the team and its performance to questions and topics about protests.”
It’s bound to have had an impact on performances. |
The US won the World Cup in 2019 so it didn’t take their eyes off the ball too much.
Carli Lloyd herself was 39 in the Olympics. Rapinoe was 36. They’ve been key for the US for years now. It’s just a step too far. If it had been played in 2020 that year may have made the difference.
Incidentally Carli Lloyd in being the only player that didn’t ‘take the knee’ probably attracted more attention and generated more questioning than Rapinoe. Completely her right to do so though. Same as it’s Rapinoe’s right to kneel. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 18:51 - Aug 13 with 625 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Well it’s come straight from her, would be silly to assume she’s lying.
Winning things when you are the best team isn’t really an indicator of a lack of distraction. Some of the women’s teams are seriously behind when it comes to development of the game, in a lot of match ups it would be hard for them to lose.
Gazza won plenty of plaudits, would be silly to give those successes as to a reason to deny off field activities affecting him though, it’s obvious he had off field distractions. However when things don’t quite go so well these things come to the surface, and for the very reason of the distraction it was causing to the squad is exactly why Lloyd stopped.
I don’t think her not making a heavily political gesture before a game caused any more of a distraction than the US teams prolific political gesturing such as the equal pay nonsense until they realised they were paid equally - (and had more favourable contact conditions). I didn’t know of Lloyds stance on it being a distraction or indeed her refusal to do the knee until today, and the Olympics is long gone. | |
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| US/Mexico Border on 19:06 - Aug 13 with 617 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 18:51 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well it’s come straight from her, would be silly to assume she’s lying.
Winning things when you are the best team isn’t really an indicator of a lack of distraction. Some of the women’s teams are seriously behind when it comes to development of the game, in a lot of match ups it would be hard for them to lose.
Gazza won plenty of plaudits, would be silly to give those successes as to a reason to deny off field activities affecting him though, it’s obvious he had off field distractions. However when things don’t quite go so well these things come to the surface, and for the very reason of the distraction it was causing to the squad is exactly why Lloyd stopped.
I don’t think her not making a heavily political gesture before a game caused any more of a distraction than the US teams prolific political gesturing such as the equal pay nonsense until they realised they were paid equally - (and had more favourable contact conditions). I didn’t know of Lloyds stance on it being a distraction or indeed her refusal to do the knee until today, and the Olympics is long gone. |
A cynic would say it’s making an excuse after a loss following a long period of success… | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:13 - Aug 13 with 612 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:06 - Aug 13 by Gwyn737 |
A cynic would say it’s making an excuse after a loss following a long period of success… |
She had stopped taking the knee due to it as being distracting to the squad long before hand.
So that’s clearly not the case. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 19:40]
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| US/Mexico Border on 19:18 - Aug 13 with 606 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:13 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
She had stopped taking the knee due to it as being distracting to the squad long before hand.
So that’s clearly not the case. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 19:40]
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You’d think it would want her to play better though, wouldn’t you?
Surely she would have felt empowered?
I’ve been consistent with my views on talking the knee - there’s no point anymore. It’s also daft to boo it. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:25 - Aug 13 with 601 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:18 - Aug 13 by Gwyn737 |
You’d think it would want her to play better though, wouldn’t you?
Surely she would have felt empowered?
I’ve been consistent with my views on talking the knee - there’s no point anymore. It’s also daft to boo it. |
I’m just reading that she was saying of the distraction back in 2016 in Sports Illustrated.
Not sure I’m with you regards to feeling empowered or wanting to play better though. Why exactly? For standing or for kneeling?
Reading her comments some of the main parts are:-
“I think she's bringing conversation to the table about some tough situations that are going on in the world. What is a distraction is the actual action of it. People are only talking about the kneeling aspect of it. I think it becomes more of a distraction because it gets our coach involved, our support staff involved and we as a team.”
“Whatever is going on, we need to forget about it and just play soccer. ”
“But we do want to get back to playing soccer but that's not to say Megan can't continue to pursue what she's pursuing. I love Megan. We're good friends. I've got her support and her back all the way.”
So while it’s tempting to dismiss her comments depending what side of the divide you sit, it’s really hard to ignore someone from within that camp categorically telling everyone it’s causing a distraction on many levels.
There is a tendency for confirmation bias on this subject where on one hand people say “listen to the players”, but then we are only supposed to listen to the players that fit the fashionable narrative or the one that wants to be promoted.
https://www.si.com/.amp/soccer [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 19:41]
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| US/Mexico Border on 19:42 - Aug 13 with 589 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:25 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’m just reading that she was saying of the distraction back in 2016 in Sports Illustrated.
Not sure I’m with you regards to feeling empowered or wanting to play better though. Why exactly? For standing or for kneeling?
Reading her comments some of the main parts are:-
“I think she's bringing conversation to the table about some tough situations that are going on in the world. What is a distraction is the actual action of it. People are only talking about the kneeling aspect of it. I think it becomes more of a distraction because it gets our coach involved, our support staff involved and we as a team.”
“Whatever is going on, we need to forget about it and just play soccer. ”
“But we do want to get back to playing soccer but that's not to say Megan can't continue to pursue what she's pursuing. I love Megan. We're good friends. I've got her support and her back all the way.”
So while it’s tempting to dismiss her comments depending what side of the divide you sit, it’s really hard to ignore someone from within that camp categorically telling everyone it’s causing a distraction on many levels.
There is a tendency for confirmation bias on this subject where on one hand people say “listen to the players”, but then we are only supposed to listen to the players that fit the fashionable narrative or the one that wants to be promoted.
https://www.si.com/.amp/soccer [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 19:41]
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By empowered I’m referring to the long-standing technique in sport of doing it ‘for’ something or someone as motivation.
I’d have thought that as she chose not to take the knee she’d feel good about her convictions and in turn motivated. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:45 - Aug 13 with 588 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:42 - Aug 13 by Gwyn737 |
By empowered I’m referring to the long-standing technique in sport of doing it ‘for’ something or someone as motivation.
I’d have thought that as she chose not to take the knee she’d feel good about her convictions and in turn motivated. |
I don’t think deciding to not participate in a protest you find distracting to the side would make you play better, or feel empowered.
Not contributing to a distracting protest, doesn’t take that distraction away. So the problem remains, she just isn’t contributing to it.
I would liken it to being vegan due to animal welfare concerns. Me being vegan hasn’t stopped that issue, I have just decided to not partake in it. But the problem remains, it doesn’t empower me. | |
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| US/Mexico Border on 20:10 - Aug 13 with 576 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 19:45 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I don’t think deciding to not participate in a protest you find distracting to the side would make you play better, or feel empowered.
Not contributing to a distracting protest, doesn’t take that distraction away. So the problem remains, she just isn’t contributing to it.
I would liken it to being vegan due to animal welfare concerns. Me being vegan hasn’t stopped that issue, I have just decided to not partake in it. But the problem remains, it doesn’t empower me. |
I’m more than happy to take her word for it. Only she knows how she feels and what she believes the protest represents (or indeed, doesn’t).
In the same way when Southgate came out and described clearly what the England players took the knee. It’s not up to others to tell them they didn’t understand- they knew what they were doing. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 20:23 - Aug 13 with 569 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 20:10 - Aug 13 by Gwyn737 |
I’m more than happy to take her word for it. Only she knows how she feels and what she believes the protest represents (or indeed, doesn’t).
In the same way when Southgate came out and described clearly what the England players took the knee. It’s not up to others to tell them they didn’t understand- they knew what they were doing. |
Not sure you have that entirely right.
She isn’t not taking the knee for any belief of what it represents, it’s not an opinion on what it represents that makes her want to abstain. She is not doing it because she says it’s distracting to the team, as a part of that team she is best place to state that.
But despite saying you are happy to believe her, your initial reaction was to essentially call her a liar and say she’s just making excuses, but she has stated it’s been a distraction for a long time, long before the need for any.
Southgates explanation was also well and good and I have never doubted his intentions or the players, but he cannot tell people what the gesture represents to them. People are under this illusion that if someone does an action, then it’s only what it means to them that matters, but that’s not reality and that’s never going to be the case, these are highly emotive actions with deep rooted connotations. Especially in the current political climate where it’s a very active part of a very unsavoury race based political agenda.
So regardless of intent, that visual action already is established in modern times as a radial leftist gesture and any copy of that, for whatever reason, is seen as a promotion of that, whether it’s intended or not is irrelevant. The football clubs themselves didn’t help themselves by already linking kneeling with #BLM on all their social media.
People just simply won’t like it and that’s why people of all walks of life continue to boo it, despite agreeing with the message of anti racism. Seems silly to make a gesture so clearly linked to unsavoury politics but it’s up to them, and it’s up to those to who wish to show their displeasure at that divisive gesture.
It’s a subject/protest/message that needlessly seems to want to manufacture conflict. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 20:33]
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| US/Mexico Border on 20:33 - Aug 13 with 559 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 20:23 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure you have that entirely right.
She isn’t not taking the knee for any belief of what it represents, it’s not an opinion on what it represents that makes her want to abstain. She is not doing it because she says it’s distracting to the team, as a part of that team she is best place to state that.
But despite saying you are happy to believe her, your initial reaction was to essentially call her a liar and say she’s just making excuses, but she has stated it’s been a distraction for a long time, long before the need for any.
Southgates explanation was also well and good and I have never doubted his intentions or the players, but he cannot tell people what the gesture represents to them. People are under this illusion that if someone does an action, then it’s only what it means to them that matters, but that’s not reality and that’s never going to be the case, these are highly emotive actions with deep rooted connotations. Especially in the current political climate where it’s a very active part of a very unsavoury race based political agenda.
So regardless of intent, that visual action already is established in modern times as a radial leftist gesture and any copy of that, for whatever reason, is seen as a promotion of that, whether it’s intended or not is irrelevant. The football clubs themselves didn’t help themselves by already linking kneeling with #BLM on all their social media.
People just simply won’t like it and that’s why people of all walks of life continue to boo it, despite agreeing with the message of anti racism. Seems silly to make a gesture so clearly linked to unsavoury politics but it’s up to them, and it’s up to those to who wish to show their displeasure at that divisive gesture.
It’s a subject/protest/message that needlessly seems to want to manufacture conflict. [Post edited 13 Aug 2021 20:33]
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As an excuse, yes, but I didn’t intend to intimate she’s a liar. As I said, she knows how she feels and it’s not for me to question it.
I feels the same about those who take the knee. I won’t boo them and I totally respect the right of those who choose not to.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with the swans tomorrow. Some have set Ayew out previously as a provocateur so im wondering what’ll happen without him.
What will probably happen is that if we’re successful there will be little booing and if we keep losing it’ll get louder. | | | |
| US/Mexico Border on 20:40 - Aug 13 with 557 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| US/Mexico Border on 20:33 - Aug 13 by Gwyn737 |
As an excuse, yes, but I didn’t intend to intimate she’s a liar. As I said, she knows how she feels and it’s not for me to question it.
I feels the same about those who take the knee. I won’t boo them and I totally respect the right of those who choose not to.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with the swans tomorrow. Some have set Ayew out previously as a provocateur so im wondering what’ll happen without him.
What will probably happen is that if we’re successful there will be little booing and if we keep losing it’ll get louder. |
But that would be insinuating that it’s not a real belief, and it’s being used as an excuse for defeat as opposed to a contributing factor for defeat. But she was saying it was distracting to the team for years. It’s clear to see that it would be, regardless of beliefs.
Again I think that language is slightly inflammatory. I don’t think anyone is booing “them”, they are booing the gesture. That gesture will always be seen as inflammatory because of the links these football clubs and the leagues had with BLM. Many posted pictures with the players taking the knee with the hashtags BLM sprawled all over it.
The Swans took the knee at Blackburn, it’s the same reaction they will get every game. Some will boo the gesture for the reasons I have given, some will clap because they see it as some kind of battle against the people that boo, some will stay silent and roll their eyes at all the posturing when essentially everyone agrees racism is bad. | |
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| US/Mexico Border on 20:46 - Aug 13 with 553 views | Gwyn737 |
| US/Mexico Border on 20:40 - Aug 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
But that would be insinuating that it’s not a real belief, and it’s being used as an excuse for defeat as opposed to a contributing factor for defeat. But she was saying it was distracting to the team for years. It’s clear to see that it would be, regardless of beliefs.
Again I think that language is slightly inflammatory. I don’t think anyone is booing “them”, they are booing the gesture. That gesture will always be seen as inflammatory because of the links these football clubs and the leagues had with BLM. Many posted pictures with the players taking the knee with the hashtags BLM sprawled all over it.
The Swans took the knee at Blackburn, it’s the same reaction they will get every game. Some will boo the gesture for the reasons I have given, some will clap because they see it as some kind of battle against the people that boo, some will stay silent and roll their eyes at all the posturing when essentially everyone agrees racism is bad. |
Not questioning her beliefs or sincerity at all. She’s well within her right to state her case and act accordingly. As I keep saying, it’s not for me to question her motive.
I think the players will think they are being booed at. Hopefully we’ll win a few and won’t have to here to much of it.
England fans demonstrated this beautifully in the Euros - the more the team win the less Marxist they became. | | | |
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