| Loan system 22:06 - Aug 22 with 2680 views | WalterBoyd |
Brandon Cooper ( Newport) Benda ( Swindon) feels like 2 new signings for us.
Both have had a great start to the season and look like will be regulars in the starting 11 going forward.
Really great use of loan system or would they have improved us last year if we had kept them here ? |  | | |  |
| Loan system on 13:50 - Aug 23 with 850 views | jasper_T |
Garrick played regularly in a very poor Swindon side that were relegated. Connor Roberts wasn't given the time of day in League One on loan. Brandon Cooper barely got a run out at non-league Yeovil (which I'd forgotten about) at the same time Joe Lewis was a regular at that level. Process of discovery suggests we should have kept Joe instead?
Butler and Rushesha aren't "done" with u23s football. Butler is in his first pro season and has only experienced u23s as an u18s player stepping up a level. Rushesha was fast-tracked, only just turned 17 when he made his senior debut in a cup game two years ago, and has been out injured for 7 or 8 months. Needs time to build back up.
Lewis Webb played a full season at Merthyr before we even signed him. | | | |
| Loan system on 15:15 - Aug 23 with 801 views | Catullus |
| Loan system on 08:12 - Aug 23 by Dr_Winston |
Funny how some of our players improved better elsewhere than the ones who stuck around under noted "developer of youth" Steve Cooper. |
Benda would have been better off out on loan and Cooper was. Benda was hardly used, Cooper wouldn't have been either. Playing regularly would have been better for both of them.
Benda has made a few mistakes ut I still think he's better than Woodman.
Cooper looks OK, he is willing to get stuck in, not scared to do the dirty work as his sneaky fouls against Brizzle showed, he was lucky to get away with them. His positioning looks good, his passing is 50/50 to me. The rest will come, I think | |
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| Loan system on 15:33 - Aug 23 with 787 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Loan system on 12:07 - Aug 23 by vetchonian |
Get over your Cooper hatred hes gone ...but again please tell us who?
Of course the likes of Geuhi and Brewster had no benefit of development under Cooper.
From Jaspers posts it seems we have strathegy of farming out players in a hope of getting them off the books.
SOmething has been wrong with our whole development system... we failed to develop a "Leon replacement" JAck Evans had promise yet was shipped out....there is a lot it be said for what Jasper is advocating....it is a huge change to leave a familiar environment and then be "thrown" in the deep end ....Brandon Cooper probaly did well at Newport as he was probably still at home in usual domestic envirionment...whihc helps |
Indeed, we actually finished 4th last season with one of the youngest sides in the league. I think we had the 6th/7th youngest average age from memory.
The year before, we finished 6th with the 3rd youngest side in the league.
We have performed excellently with youth in the last few years. [Post edited 23 Aug 2021 15:37]
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| Loan system on 15:57 - Aug 23 with 769 views | WalterBoyd |
It's a balancing act between developing players for other teams, Guehi, Brewster, Woodmà n etc. and giving our own players development within our squad.
As I posted previously, some loanees from other clubs strengthen us and there is a counter argument that they hamper our own players development.
Don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. Splinters in my arse from sitting on the fence. | | | |
| Loan system on 16:46 - Aug 23 with 739 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Loan system on 13:50 - Aug 23 by jasper_T |
Garrick played regularly in a very poor Swindon side that were relegated. Connor Roberts wasn't given the time of day in League One on loan. Brandon Cooper barely got a run out at non-league Yeovil (which I'd forgotten about) at the same time Joe Lewis was a regular at that level. Process of discovery suggests we should have kept Joe instead?
Butler and Rushesha aren't "done" with u23s football. Butler is in his first pro season and has only experienced u23s as an u18s player stepping up a level. Rushesha was fast-tracked, only just turned 17 when he made his senior debut in a cup game two years ago, and has been out injured for 7 or 8 months. Needs time to build back up.
Lewis Webb played a full season at Merthyr before we even signed him. |
Yes I accept your point about Butler and Rushesha. Butler is younger than Cameron Evans for example who seems to be playing every week for Waterford and I presume he still has a future at Swansea possibly as early as this season. The Irish league runs through the summer. It would have been ideal for Ollie Cooper perhaps who is not getting time. I sense given the extensive recruitment in the academy once out the door closes behind you.
It is a stone cold reality that the better prospect players get more game time on loan while the lesser players do not. There are always exceptions. Cream rises to the top one way or another. Garrick has earned his slot at Plymouth after his efforts at Swindon.
Newport looks like a good hard schooling. Ben White was one loan graduate. Brandon another. Flynn gets through a lot of players in and out. Not a bad independent testing ground. |  |
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| Loan system on 17:48 - Aug 23 with 714 views | jasper_T |
Anything better than u23s at the moment. First game was cancelled and now the second has been postponed (more positive covid tests at Swansea) and will be played during the international break, when quite a few of our players will be away. | | | |
| Loan system on 18:39 - Aug 23 with 687 views | MoscowJack |
| Loan system on 00:54 - Aug 23 by jasper_T |
The ideal pathway (imo) is for us to find opportunities for them in our own senior side before shipping them off. The transition to senior football can be made easier if occurs in a familiar environment, with coaches, teammates and tactics they're familiar with, and who are familiar with them. The standard of competition is higher but also the standard of help. It doesn't have to be a "tough love" style shove into the deep end of professional football.
Once the player has learned to tread water, and provided roving scouts a bit of senior footage to work with, then loan options will be better. If we show we have faith in a player, clubs that don't know them half as well might show some as well.
The obvious problem is that you have to make short-term sacrifices/risks for longer term development objectives (never what a manager wants given they're usually a couple of months of poor form from a potential sacking). And there's rarely enough minutes to go around every player the club has future hopes for. Ideally we'd see Dan Williams get half a dozen spells off the bench and a few more starts between now and December, looking ahead to potential loans in January, but we've got 5 ahead of him in midfield all of whom will be desperate to play. Some want us to bring in a loan player if Grimes goes, because an academy player as backup to Downes, Fulton, Walsh and Smith is too scary. He should be shipped off to League Two for some other club to take the risks instead. |
I'd keep Dan Williams, possibly even ahead of Korey Smith.
I've been extremely impressed with his reading of the game, his calmness on the ball and his passing ability but it's his bravery to come looking for the ball in tight situations that I love the most.. I really hope he gets a start against Plymouth and a chance to prove his consistency too. I REALLY have been impressed with him. | |
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| Loan system on 19:23 - Aug 23 with 665 views | jack247 |
| Loan system on 15:57 - Aug 23 by WalterBoyd |
It's a balancing act between developing players for other teams, Guehi, Brewster, Woodmà n etc. and giving our own players development within our squad.
As I posted previously, some loanees from other clubs strengthen us and there is a counter argument that they hamper our own players development.
Don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. Splinters in my arse from sitting on the fence. |
It’s not a case of developing players for other clubs, that’s what they get out of it. We get a more competitive side with players we wouldn’t be able to sign permanently.
I agree it’s a balancing act though. If players are good enough they should get their chance.
We do it as well, for every Guehi and Woodman there’s a Brandon Cooper and Benda being developed for us. They’ve both started the season really well, would they have been able to without their respective half season and full season out on loan? | | | |
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| Loan system on 23:05 - Aug 23 with 623 views | WalterBoyd |
We've certainly benefitted as a club from having our less experienced players getting game time elsewhere and also from some great loanees over the years.
Will be Ineresting to see who else we get through the door - both signings and loanees. Alot depends on who leaves, could be a busy week.
Whoever makes us stronger and that Russell wants are welcome. | | | |
| Loan system on 23:14 - Aug 23 with 619 views | Catullus |
One or two loan players I wouldn't argue with. Players in positions we are short in, players who defiitely improve us. Otherwise though, I'd rather have our youngsters on the bench and give them as much game time as possible so they improve whilst learning to play our way.
We helped Guehi improve leaps and bounds and we gave Brewster a great platform, all we did in the end was make good money for Liverpool and Chelsea. Then Hourihane, what a waste of wages.
Personally I think we need to be very careful with loan players. | |
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| Loan system on 06:15 - Aug 24 with 589 views | vetchonian |
| Loan system on 17:48 - Aug 23 by jasper_T |
Anything better than u23s at the moment. First game was cancelled and now the second has been postponed (more positive covid tests at Swansea) and will be played during the international break, when quite a few of our players will be away. |
Therein lies the basic problem there is no reserve team football anymore. I remember how Tosh pushed to get us into the Combination league back in the day so as fringe players and those returning from injury had games in which they could play which were competitive and close to first team level. There is no “reserve” team football anymore so after u23 it’s loaned out it sit hoping to get some time with the main squad | |
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| Loan system on 06:53 - Aug 24 with 573 views | Dr_Winston |
| Loan system on 06:15 - Aug 24 by vetchonian |
Therein lies the basic problem there is no reserve team football anymore. I remember how Tosh pushed to get us into the Combination league back in the day so as fringe players and those returning from injury had games in which they could play which were competitive and close to first team level. There is no “reserve” team football anymore so after u23 it’s loaned out it sit hoping to get some time with the main squad |
Now that is actually a good point. We haven't had a decent reserve setup since the Combination, and even that wasn't all up to much. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Loan system on 10:54 - Aug 24 with 524 views | Catullus |
| Loan system on 06:53 - Aug 24 by Dr_Winston |
Now that is actually a good point. We haven't had a decent reserve setup since the Combination, and even that wasn't all up to much. |
The Under 23's is effectively the reserves now. You can field an over age keeper and up to 3 over age outfield players. | |
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| Loan system on 11:54 - Aug 24 with 507 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Loan system on 10:54 - Aug 24 by Catullus |
The Under 23's is effectively the reserves now. You can field an over age keeper and up to 3 over age outfield players. |
The Swansea strategists generally do not play any overage players in their u23 team, even first team squad member u23 rarely play for the Swansea u23s. Cardiff City on the other hand often play the full quota of overage players.
This is a bit of a problem for Ollie Cooper for example. He did have a run out the other week. He urgently needs to go on loan in my opinion. National league if need be with the club picking up his wages only if he plays a minimum 25 games. Dan Williams and Webb are others that might not see game time without loans. | |
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| Loan system on 14:01 - Aug 24 with 489 views | Dr_Winston |
| Loan system on 10:54 - Aug 24 by Catullus |
The Under 23's is effectively the reserves now. You can field an over age keeper and up to 3 over age outfield players. |
Which means only four of our squad get a game, and hardly a competitive one in comparison. Makes it that much harder for anyone on the fringes of the first team to hit the ground running when they get a chance. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Loan system on 14:26 - Aug 24 with 470 views | jasper_T |
Very few senior players ever looked like they were putting in any effort when they showed up for our u23s.
Kris Peterson impressed. Neil Taylor, Alfie Mawson, Ki, Barrow, Asoro... some dismal displays. | | | |
| Loan system on 22:37 - Aug 26 with 370 views | WalterBoyd |
Kyle Joseph and possibly Dan William's being loaned out. Aged 19 and 20. In Russell we trust.
When Dhanda came here at 19 straight from Liverpool he was with quickly with our main squad, looking back I think we should have loaned him out.
Kyle and Dan were both brilliant this week.
If Grimes goes I would keep Dan as I feel he could get an opportunity in that position - if Russ would risk him there as its pivotal- but Kyle does have alot of competition ahead of him, be it as striker or right wing.
I think right decision for Kyle to go on loan, but would like to keep Dan depending on who leaves. | | | |
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