| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? 16:03 - Sep 26 with 5303 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Something I touched upon last week was that we are getting our best results when we are not instructed to only look for the short ball and not told to keep the ball at all costs.
We moved away from that against Bristol City against RM’s wishes according to him, but secured our first win. Of course many of us had been calling for that mixed style for weeks prior and thought that may be the catalyst to him learning that even the best tiki taka style has long balls when required.
Unfortunately he/we reverted back to type and we put in the same displays as we saw prior to that. We started the Luton game like that too, until halftime. We came out of that tunnel far more direct and were more than happy to smash the ball away, ping a long pass or direct one into the channels.
I think Russ needed that second game to show that maybe his short passing at all costs way was not the best way to go and we completely changed against Huddersfield. Still didn’t create as much as I would like a side as talented as us to create, I am addressing the second half in the main, but there was far less focus on meaningless possession, far less focus on short passing and we certainly seemed to control the game more.
In our only two league wins this season, they rank as our highest and second highest in terms of long ball % of any league games we have played this season and rank alongside (and often higher than) what we have been seeing for the last couple of seasons. I will put the 2 lowest also for comparison…
Bristol City WIN - 66 long balls (14% of our pass composition)
Huddersfield WIN - 70 long balls (13.8% of our pass composition)
Stoke LOSS - 51 long balls (6.7% of our pass composition)
Hull DRAW - 29 long balls (4.1% of our pass composition)
In terms of possession, both two league wins also rank as our lowest and second lowest possession % in any league match this season. Again I will put the highest two for comparison.
Huddersfield WIN - 54% possession
Bristol City WIN - 55% possession
Blackburn LOSS - 72% possession
Luton Town DRAW - 73% possession
So it’s pretty undeniable that our two best league results have come when we have adapted a more pragmatic approach, where we have less meaningless possession and aren’t afraid to mix the style with long balls. Our only two league wins have come when we have had our least possession and most long balls, that’s stark.
So in summary, my hope is that Martin is indeed learning and is adaptable contrary to what we were told and we haven’t completely thrown the baby out with the bath water and there is a greater focus on substance than style than there was at the start.
Positive signs if we can keep moving forward with this. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 16:22]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:01 - Sep 26 with 705 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:58 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
Anyone can handpick stats to suit their narrative.
I agree with Risca.
Why won't you look at the first half stats then?
After all, you are the guy that people come to to settle arguments, as they know you know your stuff and have all the games on archive. |
They can, however nothing has been handpicked, all 9 league games were looked at and these are the two areas (possession and long balls) which has been noted all along, this isn’t cherry picking.
I don’t believe the first half stats are important to my point. But I never refused to look at them, I simply said I don’t have them.
Risca has since provided them and they continued to back what I am saying as even if we kept the first half up for the rest of the game it would still rank in our top 2 lowest possession games.
Everything is pointing to me being correct here, even the stuff you wanted me to look at (first half) don’t know why you are starting to get all argumentative again. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 18:03]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:02 - Sep 26 with 701 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:56 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
I am just stating what happened.
The first half possession stats as Risca presented still haven’t changed anything, even if they continued until the end of the game it still ranks as your second lowest possession % this season.
I have zero bias, why would I? I simply want us to win. |
I very much doubt you want us to win. Your bias is clear.
And the 60% possession vs Hudds can ONLY be because we changed tactics? Nothing to do with the opposition at all?
Our 73% possession against Hull wasn't anything to do with them not pressing us at all? Simply because the manager was more adamant that match to stick to his gameplan and decided not to change tactics? |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:06 - Sep 26 with 693 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:02 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
I very much doubt you want us to win. Your bias is clear.
And the 60% possession vs Hudds can ONLY be because we changed tactics? Nothing to do with the opposition at all?
Our 73% possession against Hull wasn't anything to do with them not pressing us at all? Simply because the manager was more adamant that match to stick to his gameplan and decided not to change tactics? |
Well that’s your incorrect interpretation of things again then.
You get very angry when people give opinions backed by clear fact that goes against the narrative you want to portray… even when they are praising the manager.
You just seem to have a problem with certain individuals.
On two threads I have considered your suggestions, taken them on board (net spend, and first half possession) and when they didn’t go your way and still backed my views you either suggested we ignore them or suggest they aren’t important after all.
I don’t think it’s a discussion you are after. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:13 - Sep 26 with 685 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:01 - Sep 26 by onehunglow |
Who gives a monkeys as long as we do well |
Absolutely.
However doing well is it highly correlated to the clubs manager getting things right. He is starting to, so I’m hoping it’s intentional.
It appears to be to me, so we shall see on that. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:29 - Sep 26 with 669 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:06 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well that’s your incorrect interpretation of things again then.
You get very angry when people give opinions backed by clear fact that goes against the narrative you want to portray… even when they are praising the manager.
You just seem to have a problem with certain individuals.
On two threads I have considered your suggestions, taken them on board (net spend, and first half possession) and when they didn’t go your way and still backed my views you either suggested we ignore them or suggest they aren’t important after all.
I don’t think it’s a discussion you are after. |
The net spend comment was a joke by the way. Hence the wink after it | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:34 - Sep 26 with 661 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:29 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
The net spend comment was a joke by the way. Hence the wink after it |
Indeed it was presented as one, but I am sure now that your suggestion also backed my point - you still won’t agree, right?
Which means whether joking or not, you will still ignore your own points if they turn out they back mine. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:55 - Sep 26 with 650 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:34 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Indeed it was presented as one, but I am sure now that your suggestion also backed my point - you still won’t agree, right?
Which means whether joking or not, you will still ignore your own points if they turn out they back mine. |
Of course I agree that Martin has spent more.
I asked whether you had used net transfers, as I thought you wouldn't have.
I had no clue of the result or what it would be. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:58 - Sep 26 with 647 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:55 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
Of course I agree that Martin has spent more.
I asked whether you had used net transfers, as I thought you wouldn't have.
I had no clue of the result or what it would be. |
You don’t seem as forthcoming when it turns out you agree with me, you tend to ignore the follow up. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:26 - Sep 26 with 637 views | swan_si |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:58 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
Anyone can handpick stats to suit their narrative.
I agree with Risca.
Why won't you look at the first half stats then?
After all, you are the guy that people come to to settle arguments, as they know you know your stuff and have all the games on archive. |
Here's an important stat for you, Swansea scored goal 1 - Huddersfield scored 0.
That may have had an influence in the way we played the second half, all the talk of getting our 1st league win in front of the home supporters before the game, and a lead to defend, it must have been a massive boost to get that monkey off their back.
Onwards and upwards.
" the guy that settles arguments " I nearly choked.  |  | | |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:39 - Sep 26 with 625 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:26 - Sep 26 by swan_si |
Here's an important stat for you, Swansea scored goal 1 - Huddersfield scored 0.
That may have had an influence in the way we played the second half, all the talk of getting our 1st league win in front of the home supporters before the game, and a lead to defend, it must have been a massive boost to get that monkey off their back.
Onwards and upwards.
" the guy that settles arguments " I nearly choked. |
Facts always settle arguments.
It then becomes about if someone will be willing to accept them. Most do, others try not to. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:48 - Sep 26 with 616 views | swan_si |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:39 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Facts always settle arguments.
It then becomes about if someone will be willing to accept them. Most do, others try not to. |
Student
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:53 - Sep 26 with 610 views | PatchesOHoulihan |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:39 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Facts always settle arguments.
It then becomes about if someone will be willing to accept them. Most do, others try not to. |
😂 I hate statistics in football for arguments like this. Football isn’t a science. Far too many variables. Opposition, weather, team selection to say we evolved or were even doing what we meant to in the 1st place.
We know he wants us to control with possession but maybe now our players are a bit more comfortable with the choices he wants them to make |  |
| This is Patches O'Houlihan saying "Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you." |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:56 - Sep 26 with 603 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:48 - Sep 26 by swan_si |
Student
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Absolutely. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:58 - Sep 26 with 594 views | swan_si |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:56 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Absolutely. |
stop it, my sides are splitting.
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:58 - Sep 26 with 590 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 18:58 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
You don’t seem as forthcoming when it turns out you agree with me, you tend to ignore the follow up. |
I didn't igonre the follow up.
I joked that we shouldn't use net transfers, remember? | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:00 - Sep 26 with 589 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:53 - Sep 26 by PatchesOHoulihan |
😂 I hate statistics in football for arguments like this. Football isn’t a science. Far too many variables. Opposition, weather, team selection to say we evolved or were even doing what we meant to in the 1st place.
We know he wants us to control with possession but maybe now our players are a bit more comfortable with the choices he wants them to make |
You may hate them but most of football doesn’t, they are a vital part of the game. But that discussion has been done to death, clubs will continue to put more and more importance on it too as every week we see people don’t really understand what they see at times, other occasions they simply miss things and others they simply haven’t read it correctly.
There aren’t any sufficient variables to alter the fact that the only 2 league games in 7 attempts we win just happen to be when we have by far the least possession and the most long balls. If the variables aligned to spit out that very specific scenario that was stated weeks ago may well be the case - it would be astronomical probability.
People sometimes just have to accept what they don’t want to accept. It’s silly to keep blaming variables, the information to back up the obvious nature of the patterns of the game are clear. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:01 - Sep 26 with 586 views | Catullus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 17:59 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nobody is advocating for us to “turn pragmatic” nor has it ever been the case.
What has been noted from week 1 is that we need “more” pragmatism in the right areas. A mixed approach.
When we have done that this season, we have been successful. |
So nobody is advocating for us to turn pragmatic but we need more pragmatism? Okey dokey then. Ain't semantics a female woof woof!
Stats do not always prove what is correct. There are stats, damned stats and lies and the stats have often been used to tell lies, politicians do it all the time. Regardless, most of us aren't that interested in reading endless posts about stats, we prefer to talk about what happened in football terms and not by the numbers. The only stat that allof us care about is goals, it's the one stat that truely matters when the final whistle goes.
Our subs didn't have the hoped for impact but then the subs aren't involved are they, so that makes perfect sense.
The shackles you call them, they haven't come off because they were never there, we had parameters to play within and those parameters have been adjusted, more sematics eh.
PS, Jackarmee, save your jokes for someone who may laugh, Dr P comes across as a soulless individual though I'm sure that's just his internet persona. |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:02 - Sep 26 with 582 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 19:58 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
I didn't igonre the follow up.
I joked that we shouldn't use net transfers, remember? |
Yes, so you ignored the fact your point that you brought up backed me up.
Instead of addressing it you essentially ignored it by making a joke about ignoring it.
No doubt if it had backed up what you wanted it to, no joke would have been made and you would have wanted to follow that up immediately. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:13 - Sep 26 with 569 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:02 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yes, so you ignored the fact your point that you brought up backed me up.
Instead of addressing it you essentially ignored it by making a joke about ignoring it.
No doubt if it had backed up what you wanted it to, no joke would have been made and you would have wanted to follow that up immediately. |
Wow, you are hard work.
The joke was effectively saying your point was correct. Div. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:14 - Sep 26 with 566 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:01 - Sep 26 by Catullus |
So nobody is advocating for us to turn pragmatic but we need more pragmatism? Okey dokey then. Ain't semantics a female woof woof!
Stats do not always prove what is correct. There are stats, damned stats and lies and the stats have often been used to tell lies, politicians do it all the time. Regardless, most of us aren't that interested in reading endless posts about stats, we prefer to talk about what happened in football terms and not by the numbers. The only stat that allof us care about is goals, it's the one stat that truely matters when the final whistle goes.
Our subs didn't have the hoped for impact but then the subs aren't involved are they, so that makes perfect sense.
The shackles you call them, they haven't come off because they were never there, we had parameters to play within and those parameters have been adjusted, more sematics eh.
PS, Jackarmee, save your jokes for someone who may laugh, Dr P comes across as a soulless individual though I'm sure that's just his internet persona. |
Absolutely.
You don’t have to have a pragmatic style to add pragmatism into the right areas. Surely you understand a basic concept just as that? Has anyone been advocating long ball pump it forward style? No.
The correct stats always prove what’s right. If I told you Messi scored more than Alan Tate last year, the stat to prove that would be “goals scored”. There are some very obvious and specific stats to prove the truth in certain situations. If you said we had more possession in the last game than we did at the start of the season, the stats would show that to be false.
My point here is that the two wins we have had in the league have both come in games which represent our lowest possession % by some distance and also our largest % of long balls. This was suggested would be the case long ago, so it also aligns with the initial theory.
Not soulless at all, I just see through “jokes” intended to divert the conversation from an uncomfortable point that has been brought up. Anyone who seeks me out for verbal abuse every week, hasn’t earned the right to make jokes and me take them as face value. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:16 - Sep 26 with 560 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:13 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
Wow, you are hard work.
The joke was effectively saying your point was correct. Div. |
Of course it was correct, all of these points are.
But you drop them instantly. Making a joke was just another way to do that.
You aren’t convincing me I’m afraid. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:18 - Sep 26 with 557 views | jackrmee |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:16 - Sep 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Of course it was correct, all of these points are.
But you drop them instantly. Making a joke was just another way to do that.
You aren’t convincing me I’m afraid. |
No pal. I drop them when I disagree with you, because you are so annoying and not worth rising my blood pressure for.
For clarification. I think that's the only thing you have had right. | |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:20 - Sep 26 with 553 views | magicdaps10 |
Jesus Dr P....... I think your ego has been massaged enough!
Never known a person in all my Swansea forum life who is able to spin everything to prove that they are the superior poster and class themselves as correct ALL THE TIME.
I really hope you are just on a constant wind up because if you are not......you are genuinely struggling with something.
Don't let it become an obsession. |  |
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:25 - Sep 26 with 548 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:20 - Sep 26 by magicdaps10 |
Jesus Dr P....... I think your ego has been massaged enough!
Never known a person in all my Swansea forum life who is able to spin everything to prove that they are the superior poster and class themselves as correct ALL THE TIME.
I really hope you are just on a constant wind up because if you are not......you are genuinely struggling with something.
Don't let it become an obsession. |
Which part do you think is spin? How is this winding any sane person up.
It isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact.
- We have had two league wins all season
- Both of those games represent our lowest and second lowest possession stats all season
- Both of those games represent our highest and second highest long ball % all season
I understand people may not like that. But how in earth can anyone blame me for those facts is beyond me. [Post edited 26 Sep 2021 20:28]
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| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:27 - Sep 26 with 544 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Long ball and possession shackles finally coming off? on 20:18 - Sep 26 by jackrmee |
No pal. I drop them when I disagree with you, because you are so annoying and not worth rising my blood pressure for.
For clarification. I think that's the only thing you have had right. |
So you think I am wrong that we had our lowest possession against both Bristol City and Huddersfield?
You also think I’m wrong that we had out most long ball % against both those sides?
You also think I’m wrong that the only two league games we have won has been in those games?
No need to raise your blood pressure. Just recognise what I have said is fact, it’s not even an opinion. | |
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