| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight 17:09 - Sep 27 with 6154 views | magicdaps10 |
Said that he left the minute Ayew left and didn't fancy the challenge ahead in his 3rd year with us.
Unfair or something that you couldn't argue with?
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 13:40 - Sep 28 with 1030 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 23:22 - Sep 27 by ReslovenSwan1 |
'Ayew leaving ' might be an euphemism for "parachute ending". Ollie might be coy about talking hard cash on the telly.
Cooper and Winter clearly did not see eye to eye. Peterson was the first problem. Peterson got a few minutes at Newport county and did not feature again similar to the 17 min Arriola got. Both experienced international footballers compared to Cullen who is not.
Peterson agent had found him a new club in Germany and he presumably told Winter he was off and to accept a reasonable fee for his release. Winter was in a tight spot and made the right call with the clock ticking. Cooper appeared to take this correct decision badly blaming perhaps Winter rather than Peterson and his agent. Swansea had one winger Narsingh taking money for nothing who refused to go anywhere under Potter.
Club signings Arriola, Manning and Goykeres were other players under used and presumably unhappy. Discontent at not having a proper centre forward look pretty hollow now with Goykeres smashing them in for Coventry. Peterson could also play up front and people are demanding to see more of Whitaker.
Coopers sniffy response to the January signing was terminal if he failed to deliver a Wembley win in my opinion. I said it at the time actually. Arriola is a Yankee crock and Englishman Morgan Gibbs White is just 'unlucky'. |
Yes, Goykeres 7 from 9 games.
We could do with someone like that, they obviously know how to get the best out of him. |  | | |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 13:56 - Sep 28 with 1009 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 13:40 - Sep 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
Yes, Goykeres 7 from 9 games.
We could do with someone like that, they obviously know how to get the best out of him. |
He could barely get a start for them last season either.
He started 7 out of 23 games.
Scoring 3. |  |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 14:51 - Sep 28 with 996 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 13:56 - Sep 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
He could barely get a start for them last season either.
He started 7 out of 23 games.
Scoring 3. |
Its hard to score if you do not start and only get 10 mins here or there. Cullen has been doing it for quite a while after his debut goal v Reading.
The Coventry coach made the same mistake as the Swansea coach but stuck with him. The argument that Cooper was not supported with a decent centre forward is dubious. |  |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:10 - Sep 28 with 981 views | vetchonian |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 13:40 - Sep 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
Yes, Goykeres 7 from 9 games.
We could do with someone like that, they obviously know how to get the best out of him. |
we have he 's called Piroe
Goykeres return =0.77 goals per game Piroe =0.75 so he is not far behind hasnt been played and like Goykeres didnt set things alight at his prevfious club..iy happens sometimes players just dont settle or fit in ......... | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:32 - Sep 28 with 970 views | Chief |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 14:51 - Sep 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Its hard to score if you do not start and only get 10 mins here or there. Cullen has been doing it for quite a while after his debut goal v Reading.
The Coventry coach made the same mistake as the Swansea coach but stuck with him. The argument that Cooper was not supported with a decent centre forward is dubious. |
It's even harder to score when you display the ineptitude in the performances he did for us. So you're now advocating developing someone else's player over our youngsters?
Well it's not dubious because it's patently obvious that the Gyorkeres we had last season (when we needed him remember) wasn't a viable option. His performances were woeful and as a team challenging for promotion couldn't accommodate unproven passengers. Just as Coventry didn't last season either as they survived relegation.
If the theory is that Gyorkeres needs a bit part loan spell then a permanent signing, then pre-season and then starts performing well that was never on the cards for us because we weren't going to buy him last January were we? Nor would we have played him much more in the second half of the season just like Coventry didn't. And then Cooper left and our recruitment team didn't seem fit to permanently sign him when he became available.
It's just a completely moot point.
People just making statements again without actually considering how what they are saying would have actually worked in practice. |  |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:32 - Sep 28 with 970 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:10 - Sep 28 by vetchonian |
we have he 's called Piroe
Goykeres return =0.77 goals per game Piroe =0.75 so he is not far behind hasnt been played and like Goykeres didnt set things alight at his prevfious club..iy happens sometimes players just dont settle or fit in ......... |
Isn't having 2 of them better than having just 1 of them? | | | |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:36 - Sep 28 with 967 views | Chief |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:32 - Sep 28 by A_Fans_Dad |
Isn't having 2 of them better than having just 1 of them? |
What makes you think we'd sign two strikers permanently? | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 17:31 - Sep 28 with 929 views | ItchySphincter |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 11:11 - Sep 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
That isn’t what you said though.
You said if he gets to the playoffs then he has equalled his record. That’s certainly not true. |
I didn’t say that.
You said - “To improve on that would mean breaking our all time championship points tally.”
That is patently incorrect.
For Russ to improve on Cooper he would need to get promoted. 80 points is irrelevant. |  |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 17:51 - Sep 28 with 916 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:32 - Sep 28 by Chief |
It's even harder to score when you display the ineptitude in the performances he did for us. So you're now advocating developing someone else's player over our youngsters?
Well it's not dubious because it's patently obvious that the Gyorkeres we had last season (when we needed him remember) wasn't a viable option. His performances were woeful and as a team challenging for promotion couldn't accommodate unproven passengers. Just as Coventry didn't last season either as they survived relegation.
If the theory is that Gyorkeres needs a bit part loan spell then a permanent signing, then pre-season and then starts performing well that was never on the cards for us because we weren't going to buy him last January were we? Nor would we have played him much more in the second half of the season just like Coventry didn't. And then Cooper left and our recruitment team didn't seem fit to permanently sign him when he became available.
It's just a completely moot point.
People just making statements again without actually considering how what they are saying would have actually worked in practice. |
Goykeres scored regularly in Germany and a Swedish u21 international. He is a good player. Arriola is a good player and Kris Peterson is a good player. None of them played well for Steve Cooper mostly from lack of game time.
Goykeres has flourished when given regular game time under Mark Robbins. I doubt whether Goykeres has developed miraculously since last season. He is pretty much the same play who wore the white shirt.
The argument that Cooper was not supported with a strikers does not stand up to examination. Cooper had Peterson at the start of the season (who forced his way out) Goykeres first half and Morris second half. Whittaker could also do that role. Cooper did not get a song from anyone of them but did get s song from Ayew and Lowe his chosen strikers. He had good strikers and a decent no 9 if he chose to use him. He chose not to. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 18:55 - Sep 28 with 901 views | vetchonian |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 17:51 - Sep 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Goykeres scored regularly in Germany and a Swedish u21 international. He is a good player. Arriola is a good player and Kris Peterson is a good player. None of them played well for Steve Cooper mostly from lack of game time.
Goykeres has flourished when given regular game time under Mark Robbins. I doubt whether Goykeres has developed miraculously since last season. He is pretty much the same play who wore the white shirt.
The argument that Cooper was not supported with a strikers does not stand up to examination. Cooper had Peterson at the start of the season (who forced his way out) Goykeres first half and Morris second half. Whittaker could also do that role. Cooper did not get a song from anyone of them but did get s song from Ayew and Lowe his chosen strikers. He had good strikers and a decent no 9 if he chose to use him. He chose not to. |
Peterson is not a striker he is a winger | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 19:08 - Sep 28 with 897 views | max936 |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:10 - Sep 28 by vetchonian |
we have he 's called Piroe
Goykeres return =0.77 goals per game Piroe =0.75 so he is not far behind hasnt been played and like Goykeres didnt set things alight at his prevfious club..iy happens sometimes players just dont settle or fit in ......... |
Perhaps Goykeres is/was a slow burner, been a few about over the yrs, look at the ridicule Patrick Bamford took over the yrs and look at him now, perseverance and hardwork has paid off for him. |  |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 20:03 - Sep 28 with 879 views | Chief |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 17:51 - Sep 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Goykeres scored regularly in Germany and a Swedish u21 international. He is a good player. Arriola is a good player and Kris Peterson is a good player. None of them played well for Steve Cooper mostly from lack of game time.
Goykeres has flourished when given regular game time under Mark Robbins. I doubt whether Goykeres has developed miraculously since last season. He is pretty much the same play who wore the white shirt.
The argument that Cooper was not supported with a strikers does not stand up to examination. Cooper had Peterson at the start of the season (who forced his way out) Goykeres first half and Morris second half. Whittaker could also do that role. Cooper did not get a song from anyone of them but did get s song from Ayew and Lowe his chosen strikers. He had good strikers and a decent no 9 if he chose to use him. He chose not to. |
None of them were good enough to warrant a regular place in our team. And as such is completely understandable and obvious that they aren't going to have game time. Swansea City is a football club - not a charity for players struggling to find form and down on their luck. You've named 3 there, you've also moaned about Morris, Whittaker and others not being played enough. Where on earth are all these meant fit in!? We had 2 undisputed scoring forwards last season, and a pretty nifty one this season, struggling to see why people would bother second guessing this!?
Peterson is not or ever has been a striker so no idea why you're bringing him into this. Morris was only available for 5 games. Whittaker had only ever scored 2 senior goals, and even our current manager doesn't fancy him.
Under what circumstances could we have possibly given Gyorkeres more game time than we did then? He made 14 appearances in the first half of the season, during which time we near the top of the table. Picking him over our scoring forwards judging by his form would have resulted in us not gaining as many points as we did. 14 appearances wasn't enough for him for Brighton so he was recalled. Coventry then took and didn't think him worthy of many more appearances in the second half. And based on his poor season Brighton let him go cheap. Coventry took a punt. We were in the market for a striker but didn't go for him. And anyone that would have said they would have signed him this summer is a liar.
The scenario that somehow we've missed a trick simply doesn't add up because the circumstances by which he'd have signed for us permanently simply didn't it don't exist. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 20:06 - Sep 28 with 877 views | Chief |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 19:08 - Sep 28 by max936 |
Perhaps Goykeres is/was a slow burner, been a few about over the yrs, look at the ridicule Patrick Bamford took over the yrs and look at him now, perseverance and hardwork has paid off for him. |
Yes something like this is far more likely than this flawed narrative that Cooper somehow sabotaged his 'promising' career.
Players develop at different speeds and in different surroundings and circumstances. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 21:43 - Sep 28 with 843 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 20:03 - Sep 28 by Chief |
None of them were good enough to warrant a regular place in our team. And as such is completely understandable and obvious that they aren't going to have game time. Swansea City is a football club - not a charity for players struggling to find form and down on their luck. You've named 3 there, you've also moaned about Morris, Whittaker and others not being played enough. Where on earth are all these meant fit in!? We had 2 undisputed scoring forwards last season, and a pretty nifty one this season, struggling to see why people would bother second guessing this!?
Peterson is not or ever has been a striker so no idea why you're bringing him into this. Morris was only available for 5 games. Whittaker had only ever scored 2 senior goals, and even our current manager doesn't fancy him.
Under what circumstances could we have possibly given Gyorkeres more game time than we did then? He made 14 appearances in the first half of the season, during which time we near the top of the table. Picking him over our scoring forwards judging by his form would have resulted in us not gaining as many points as we did. 14 appearances wasn't enough for him for Brighton so he was recalled. Coventry then took and didn't think him worthy of many more appearances in the second half. And based on his poor season Brighton let him go cheap. Coventry took a punt. We were in the market for a striker but didn't go for him. And anyone that would have said they would have signed him this summer is a liar.
The scenario that somehow we've missed a trick simply doesn't add up because the circumstances by which he'd have signed for us permanently simply didn't it don't exist. |
Cooper picked his best strikers Ayew and Lowe and did not pick other goal scoring forwards at his disposal. Lowe was a winger. Peterson was a goal scoring winger Whittaker a wide forward and Morris was a forward. Goykeres is a mobile 21 year old promising forward more than capable at Championship level.
I am simply disputing the narrative that Steve Cooper was hampered by the management team in not having forwards. Goykeres needed time at Swansea. McBurnie and Brewster are struggling at Sheff Utd and need game time. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 22:06 - Sep 28 with 841 views | Chief |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 21:43 - Sep 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Cooper picked his best strikers Ayew and Lowe and did not pick other goal scoring forwards at his disposal. Lowe was a winger. Peterson was a goal scoring winger Whittaker a wide forward and Morris was a forward. Goykeres is a mobile 21 year old promising forward more than capable at Championship level.
I am simply disputing the narrative that Steve Cooper was hampered by the management team in not having forwards. Goykeres needed time at Swansea. McBurnie and Brewster are struggling at Sheff Utd and need game time. |
Gyorkeres wasn't a goalscoring forward. He got 0 goals in 14 league appearances. Lowe was a winger but still performed better than Gyorkeres as a make shift forward. Only now a year on is he showing that he could become a decent championship player.
Again, still dunno why you're mentioning Peterson. Some found it strange (including me initially) that Cooper was playing Lowe up top. Can you imagine the outcry if he'd played Peterson there. Morris was only available for 5 games. And yes Whittaker is a wide inexperienced forward. What's your point?
What player doesn't need time? As I say we aren't a charity. Cooper was completely vindicated in not playing him considering the scoring performance of our 1st choice forwards and Gyorkeres' dismal showings.
Yes Brewster and McBurnie were gold for us, yet can't buy a goal at a different club. It's how football works. I'm not going to hang their managers out to dry for this.
Just because he's on a good run now doesn't automatically mean it was possible or viable for that to have occurred a year prior with us. It didn't a few months prior at Coventry either. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 22:16 - Sep 28 with 820 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 14:51 - Sep 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Its hard to score if you do not start and only get 10 mins here or there. Cullen has been doing it for quite a while after his debut goal v Reading.
The Coventry coach made the same mistake as the Swansea coach but stuck with him. The argument that Cooper was not supported with a decent centre forward is dubious. |
Neither Coventry, Brighton nor Swansea felt him good enough to be a starter last season.
I can only assume that was the the correct call, he did next to nothing in the opportunities he was given.
This season he has had an excellent start, that is not to say he deserved game time last season though. That would be naïve. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 22:17 - Sep 28 with 818 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 17:31 - Sep 28 by ItchySphincter |
I didn’t say that.
You said - “To improve on that would mean breaking our all time championship points tally.”
That is patently incorrect.
For Russ to improve on Cooper he would need to get promoted. 80 points is irrelevant. |
You said... ''If he gets to PO or PO final he will have equaled achievements''.
Not true.
I said quite clearly, if he is promoted then yes he tops Coopers achievement with us. If not, and he just reaches the play-offs, then other factors will determine what is equaled. So you will have to decide if its promotion/play offs/ play off final in your question - then I can provide an answer.
Just getting to the play offs will not equal Coopers achievements, no. [Post edited 28 Sep 2021 22:43]
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 22:21 - Sep 28 with 816 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 15:10 - Sep 28 by vetchonian |
we have he 's called Piroe
Goykeres return =0.77 goals per game Piroe =0.75 so he is not far behind hasnt been played and like Goykeres didnt set things alight at his prevfious club..iy happens sometimes players just dont settle or fit in ......... |
He actually has a better record than Gyokeres.
Piroe a goal every 107 league minutes (104 including cup)
Gyokeres a goal every 110 league minutes. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 23:33 - Sep 28 with 788 views | ItchySphincter |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 22:17 - Sep 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
You said... ''If he gets to PO or PO final he will have equaled achievements''.
Not true.
I said quite clearly, if he is promoted then yes he tops Coopers achievement with us. If not, and he just reaches the play-offs, then other factors will determine what is equaled. So you will have to decide if its promotion/play offs/ play off final in your question - then I can provide an answer.
Just getting to the play offs will not equal Coopers achievements, no. [Post edited 28 Sep 2021 22:43]
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Go back and read it again. ðŸ‘🻠You said Russ had to beat Cooper’s points tally, incorrect. Promotion would surpass any Cooper achievement, even if we’ll below points. Now stop being silly. ðŸ‘🻠| |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 23:49 - Sep 28 with 773 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 23:33 - Sep 28 by ItchySphincter |
Go back and read it again. ðŸ‘🻠You said Russ had to beat Cooper’s points tally, incorrect. Promotion would surpass any Cooper achievement, even if we’ll below points. Now stop being silly. ðŸ‘🻠|
Direct quote....
''Depends how he does it and what transpires if he does (achieves play-offs for context).
There are tangible rewards for getting to the play off final and of course writing your own piece of history is not something to be sniffed at.
Promotion I would say will surpass Coopers achievements, without promotion however we would need one hell of a season to say he equaled it. Play off final and joint record points will need to be bettered/equaled. ''
As I said, promotion tops it... anything else will come down to what happens, points tally included.
Now if you weren't intent on trolling you may be able to put a question forward in which you could get an answer to.
Just a thought.
As you were. [Post edited 28 Sep 2021 23:54]
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 08:52 - Sep 29 with 709 views | ItchySphincter |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 23:49 - Sep 28 by Dr_Parnassus |
Direct quote....
''Depends how he does it and what transpires if he does (achieves play-offs for context).
There are tangible rewards for getting to the play off final and of course writing your own piece of history is not something to be sniffed at.
Promotion I would say will surpass Coopers achievements, without promotion however we would need one hell of a season to say he equaled it. Play off final and joint record points will need to be bettered/equaled. ''
As I said, promotion tops it... anything else will come down to what happens, points tally included.
Now if you weren't intent on trolling you may be able to put a question forward in which you could get an answer to.
Just a thought.
As you were. [Post edited 28 Sep 2021 23:54]
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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear……
Resorting to accusations of trolling now - nothing personal or argumentative in my posts.
You said Russ would need to better Steve’s 80 points to improve, I said promotion would be an improvement, regardless of points total. Nothing for you to argue about.
Now behave yourself. ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ˜† | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 08:59 - Sep 29 with 704 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 08:52 - Sep 29 by ItchySphincter |
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear……
Resorting to accusations of trolling now - nothing personal or argumentative in my posts.
You said Russ would need to better Steve’s 80 points to improve, I said promotion would be an improvement, regardless of points total. Nothing for you to argue about.
Now behave yourself. ðŸ‘ðŸ»ðŸ˜† |
It isn’t an accusation, it’s an observation.
The conversation moved on from that point, and had since clarified that I was referring to any non promotion season. My very next post was the one I just quoted for you and put into bold, clearly stating that any promotion tops it…. but without promotion, then other factors come into it so needed you to clarify what you meant.
After that… you said if he makes the playoffs/final then he equals it.
I told you it doesn’t, now you keep harping back to this.
Come on now Itch, you have to get up far earlier in the day when you pit yourself against me. Now if you wish to formulate a proper question and decide what kind of a season you wish to ask me will equal Coopers achievement - then I can give you an answer.
Or you can keep trolling. Depends what mood you are in I guess. | |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 09:18 - Sep 29 with 692 views | ItchySphincter |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 08:59 - Sep 29 by Dr_Parnassus |
It isn’t an accusation, it’s an observation.
The conversation moved on from that point, and had since clarified that I was referring to any non promotion season. My very next post was the one I just quoted for you and put into bold, clearly stating that any promotion tops it…. but without promotion, then other factors come into it so needed you to clarify what you meant.
After that… you said if he makes the playoffs/final then he equals it.
I told you it doesn’t, now you keep harping back to this.
Come on now Itch, you have to get up far earlier in the day when you pit yourself against me. Now if you wish to formulate a proper question and decide what kind of a season you wish to ask me will equal Coopers achievement - then I can give you an answer.
Or you can keep trolling. Depends what mood you are in I guess. |
I’ve just stated a true fact - promotion would better the achievement of Cooper, regardless of how many points it takes - it’s not an argument, just a true fact that followed your comment that Russ would have to surpass Cooper’s 80 points to improve.
If you need further clarity just ask. ðŸ‘🻠| |
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| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 09:22 - Sep 29 with 688 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 09:18 - Sep 29 by ItchySphincter |
I’ve just stated a true fact - promotion would better the achievement of Cooper, regardless of how many points it takes - it’s not an argument, just a true fact that followed your comment that Russ would have to surpass Cooper’s 80 points to improve.
If you need further clarity just ask. ðŸ‘🻠|
Nope, you got that the wrong way around. Your comment came after my point regarding 80 points, not before it.
I then agreed that yes promotion would indeed surpass it and I was referring to a non promotion season.
You then replied that equaling it would be making the playoffs, which is now what this discussion is about after telling you that I don’t necessarily agree.
Look for yourself:-
So we have long established that we both agree promotion would top Coopers achievements.
We are now discussing your comments regarding playoffs matching it - which is what I disagree with, for the reasons I stated. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:35 - Sep 29 with 684 views | vetchonian |
| Holloway knocks Steve Cooper for lack of fight on 17:51 - Sep 28 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Goykeres scored regularly in Germany and a Swedish u21 international. He is a good player. Arriola is a good player and Kris Peterson is a good player. None of them played well for Steve Cooper mostly from lack of game time.
Goykeres has flourished when given regular game time under Mark Robbins. I doubt whether Goykeres has developed miraculously since last season. He is pretty much the same play who wore the white shirt.
The argument that Cooper was not supported with a strikers does not stand up to examination. Cooper had Peterson at the start of the season (who forced his way out) Goykeres first half and Morris second half. Whittaker could also do that role. Cooper did not get a song from anyone of them but did get s song from Ayew and Lowe his chosen strikers. He had good strikers and a decent no 9 if he chose to use him. He chose not to. |
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