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Coops on a roll 21:51 - Oct 19 with 5880 viewsKeithHaynes

The problem is when a new manager has such a good run, like McCarthy, it will end badly ?
Or will it ?

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Coops on a roll on 22:56 - Nov 2 with 1323 viewsItchySphincter

Coops on a roll on 22:52 - Nov 2 by Dr_Parnassus

I always have the courage of my convictions. Have I ever backed down from any of your silly games? Never.

And have always been proven correct.

Who do you think wins the battle Itch? Be brave…


I’m a swans supporter. I support my team.

Battles?

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Coops on a roll on 22:57 - Nov 2 with 1312 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 22:56 - Nov 2 by ItchySphincter

I’m a swans supporter. I support my team.

Battles?


I think you have answered the wrong post there. Not sure what supporting the Swans has to do with anything. It’s a Swans site, I’m sure we all do.

The managerial PPG battle. Who do you think wins?

Looks like it will be close doesn’t it.

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Coops on a roll on 23:59 - Nov 2 with 1245 viewsReslovenSwan1

Since the PPG data issue became a talking point I have been monitoring it from after game 12 in the Championship. An arbitrary start point at which Martin was getting his team up to fitness. The Swansea pre season was run by Cooper. It was a point at which I suggested Martin would match Cooper until May. Both teams were level at the time. Dr P was promoting data which presented Cooper as a far most sucessful manager.

This discounted the bedding in period of 12 games for Martin and 5 or 6 games for Cooper.

Martin PPG 2.25

Cooper PPG 1,25.

I actually think both will be successful this season. The loans in January might help one over the other. It seams Swansea may not need Rhys Williams at this point while Laird is flying. Cooper has Garner who has dodged Swansea more than once and the Germmn gyuy from Watford.

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Coops on a roll on 00:09 - Nov 3 with 1233 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 23:59 - Nov 2 by ReslovenSwan1

Since the PPG data issue became a talking point I have been monitoring it from after game 12 in the Championship. An arbitrary start point at which Martin was getting his team up to fitness. The Swansea pre season was run by Cooper. It was a point at which I suggested Martin would match Cooper until May. Both teams were level at the time. Dr P was promoting data which presented Cooper as a far most sucessful manager.

This discounted the bedding in period of 12 games for Martin and 5 or 6 games for Cooper.

Martin PPG 2.25

Cooper PPG 1,25.

I actually think both will be successful this season. The loans in January might help one over the other. It seams Swansea may not need Rhys Williams at this point while Laird is flying. Cooper has Garner who has dodged Swansea more than once and the Germmn gyuy from Watford.


''An arbitrary start point''

You mean you picked the date to start from that best suited you instead of using the full data available?

Let's say Coops wins 4 on the bounce and RM loses 4 on the bounce next month, would you accept it if someone popped up and said:

''I reckon 4 games ago was when they both settled in, let's start it from there''.


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Coops on a roll on 00:10 - Nov 3 with 1232 viewsDr_Parnassus

The real 'non massaged' figures of the tale of the tape this season:-

Russel Martin = 1.43 PPG
Steve Cooper = 1.87 PPG

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Coops on a roll on 15:38 - Nov 3 with 1110 viewsYouBackJastard

Coops on a roll on 00:10 - Nov 3 by Dr_Parnassus

The real 'non massaged' figures of the tale of the tape this season:-

Russel Martin = 1.43 PPG
Steve Cooper = 1.87 PPG


Yes, because it makes more sense to include results and performances that we will never see again (the start of the season) rather than the last six games where we've been the third best team in the league and scored more goals than any other club apart from Fulham. Dose of realism is needed.
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Coops on a roll on 17:22 - Nov 3 with 1064 viewsTenbySwan

I noticed on the stats for last night that Cooper was yellow carded before a ball was kicked?
Any info please?
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Coops on a roll on 19:40 - Nov 3 with 1014 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 15:38 - Nov 3 by YouBackJastard

Yes, because it makes more sense to include results and performances that we will never see again (the start of the season) rather than the last six games where we've been the third best team in the league and scored more goals than any other club apart from Fulham. Dose of realism is needed.


I don’t understand your point. Are you suggesting you can see in the future and we will never only win 2 of 10 games again?

I’m afraid you don’t selectively choose which results to include. I’ve tried to teach Resolven that, it’s all of them or none of them.

I understand people would prefer to only use stats that benefit them, but unfortunately reality doesn’t work like that. What you are referring to is a form table, not a managerial record. Managerial records include the start, the middle, the end…

They all count.

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Coops on a roll on 19:44 - Nov 3 with 1011 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 17:22 - Nov 3 by TenbySwan

I noticed on the stats for last night that Cooper was yellow carded before a ball was kicked?
Any info please?


He helped a player to his feet, but was carded for crossing the managerial dugout line.

Wasn’t before the game.

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Coops on a roll on 19:55 - Nov 3 with 1006 viewsBoundy

Coops on a roll on 19:44 - Nov 3 by Dr_Parnassus

He helped a player to his feet, but was carded for crossing the managerial dugout line.

Wasn’t before the game.


,Poor form by the officials if true. Any chance of a Link please

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Coops on a roll on 20:24 - Nov 3 with 994 viewsCatullus

Coops on a roll on 19:40 - Nov 3 by Dr_Parnassus

I don’t understand your point. Are you suggesting you can see in the future and we will never only win 2 of 10 games again?

I’m afraid you don’t selectively choose which results to include. I’ve tried to teach Resolven that, it’s all of them or none of them.

I understand people would prefer to only use stats that benefit them, but unfortunately reality doesn’t work like that. What you are referring to is a form table, not a managerial record. Managerial records include the start, the middle, the end…

They all count.


That surely means that 3 wins out of the last 4 aren't irrelevant either then. You have to count all the results. Or we could do like bookies and talk about current form using the last 6 matches.

Regardless, I reckon by the end of the season I won't care about what Cooper is doing any more than I do right now.
Cooper is not our manager so unless we are playing Forest I don't give a flying fork anymore. Unless we both end up in the play offs obviously. All opinions are possibly subject to change!

Just my opinion, but WTF do I know anyway?
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Coops on a roll on 20:26 - Nov 3 with 993 viewsReslovenSwan1

Dr P. may have been suggested earlier in the season that Cooper is in fact a better manager for Swansea than Martin was. This is a reasonable assumption as he posted win rations for both managers as a comparison to prove his case. Coopers PPG being well in excess of Martin's.

I have postulated that the manager's PPG ratios are not a good guide as they were a managing in different development cycles and transitioning in Martin's case to a new style of playing. Both were early in their careers.

I suggested that both a mangers by game 12 had got their squads fit and firing and were on actually equal points with a modest 14 points. Neither at that point had the excuse that they had had no preseason. Swansea's with Cooper and Forest's with Hughton.

I took the arbitrary 12 game mark where both were on 14 points. I promoted the idea that in my opinion Martin will beyond that point finish close to Cooper or even higher by the end of the season. If PPG data is so useful then using historical averages promoted by Dr P Cooper and Forest should finish miles ahead of Swansea. I do not think they will. The Championship is a marathon not a sprint and Cooper has two playoff s to his name already.

A team with Woodman, Guehi, Willmott, Gallagher, Brewster, Surridge on loan and Ayew Rodon Roberts and Borja might in my opinion have done better than scrapping into 6th.

I also consider Potter could have done a lot better but was let down by his recruitment. There is not one fan on here that would sign McKay. Asoro, John and Celina to a certain degree were flops. Had that £7m been spent better Potter could still be manager perhaps. £7m was more than enough for Toney and Dickie and a few other well know performers in the lower leagues.

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Coops on a roll on 20:48 - Nov 3 with 971 viewsvetchonian

Coops on a roll on 20:26 - Nov 3 by ReslovenSwan1

Dr P. may have been suggested earlier in the season that Cooper is in fact a better manager for Swansea than Martin was. This is a reasonable assumption as he posted win rations for both managers as a comparison to prove his case. Coopers PPG being well in excess of Martin's.

I have postulated that the manager's PPG ratios are not a good guide as they were a managing in different development cycles and transitioning in Martin's case to a new style of playing. Both were early in their careers.

I suggested that both a mangers by game 12 had got their squads fit and firing and were on actually equal points with a modest 14 points. Neither at that point had the excuse that they had had no preseason. Swansea's with Cooper and Forest's with Hughton.

I took the arbitrary 12 game mark where both were on 14 points. I promoted the idea that in my opinion Martin will beyond that point finish close to Cooper or even higher by the end of the season. If PPG data is so useful then using historical averages promoted by Dr P Cooper and Forest should finish miles ahead of Swansea. I do not think they will. The Championship is a marathon not a sprint and Cooper has two playoff s to his name already.

A team with Woodman, Guehi, Willmott, Gallagher, Brewster, Surridge on loan and Ayew Rodon Roberts and Borja might in my opinion have done better than scrapping into 6th.

I also consider Potter could have done a lot better but was let down by his recruitment. There is not one fan on here that would sign McKay. Asoro, John and Celina to a certain degree were flops. Had that £7m been spent better Potter could still be manager perhaps. £7m was more than enough for Toney and Dickie and a few other well know performers in the lower leagues.


what about considering that was Coopers first season managing at senior level
compare that to Frank's ar Brentford who despite more experience of managing at a senior level than Cooper failed to get Brentford to the play offs in his first season in charge at Brentford.

Let's see where things are at the seasons end.
Much has been posted about Coooers calibre even called a fraud without Ayew and Geuhi he has no chance yet gas turned Forest around...it seems after a ropey start start Martin has got is on track...as you say it's a marathon not a sprint lets see where we and Forest are come May

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Coops on a roll on 20:48 - Nov 3 with 969 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 20:26 - Nov 3 by ReslovenSwan1

Dr P. may have been suggested earlier in the season that Cooper is in fact a better manager for Swansea than Martin was. This is a reasonable assumption as he posted win rations for both managers as a comparison to prove his case. Coopers PPG being well in excess of Martin's.

I have postulated that the manager's PPG ratios are not a good guide as they were a managing in different development cycles and transitioning in Martin's case to a new style of playing. Both were early in their careers.

I suggested that both a mangers by game 12 had got their squads fit and firing and were on actually equal points with a modest 14 points. Neither at that point had the excuse that they had had no preseason. Swansea's with Cooper and Forest's with Hughton.

I took the arbitrary 12 game mark where both were on 14 points. I promoted the idea that in my opinion Martin will beyond that point finish close to Cooper or even higher by the end of the season. If PPG data is so useful then using historical averages promoted by Dr P Cooper and Forest should finish miles ahead of Swansea. I do not think they will. The Championship is a marathon not a sprint and Cooper has two playoff s to his name already.

A team with Woodman, Guehi, Willmott, Gallagher, Brewster, Surridge on loan and Ayew Rodon Roberts and Borja might in my opinion have done better than scrapping into 6th.

I also consider Potter could have done a lot better but was let down by his recruitment. There is not one fan on here that would sign McKay. Asoro, John and Celina to a certain degree were flops. Had that £7m been spent better Potter could still be manager perhaps. £7m was more than enough for Toney and Dickie and a few other well know performers in the lower leagues.


Dr P “may have” or “Dr P did”?

Very important clarification needed there, especially with your reputation for misrepresenting the truth and deliberately misquoting people. I shall allow you to amend, recant or double down.

As for your suggestions of “arbitrary” starting points. Your suggestion is nonsense, you have decided when they have both settled, given one manager more than double the time than the other despite worse situation for the manager given less time by you, and decided to conveniently start counting from 12 matches in.

I am afraid when you look at a managers record, a teams record, a players record…. They don’t start on game 15 with a caveat *he was still probably settling in.

I’m afraid your contribution to this one is ludicrous.

You either back Martin to better Coopers record this season or you don’t. But you certainly won’t be picking and choosing which games to include and which ones not to on my watch.

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Coops on a roll on 20:56 - Nov 3 with 960 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 20:24 - Nov 3 by Catullus

That surely means that 3 wins out of the last 4 aren't irrelevant either then. You have to count all the results. Or we could do like bookies and talk about current form using the last 6 matches.

Regardless, I reckon by the end of the season I won't care about what Cooper is doing any more than I do right now.
Cooper is not our manager so unless we are playing Forest I don't give a flying fork anymore. Unless we both end up in the play offs obviously. All opinions are possibly subject to change!


I’m not with you at all yet again I’m afraid Cat. Your posting is becoming very odd if you don’t mind me observing.

Are you suggesting I haven’t added the data for the 3 wins in the last 4? If you are suggesting that then you are wrong.

All means all. Every match, good form, bad form or indifferent.

Bookies form table is a guide for punters to give them a helping hand to decide on who they pick based on who is playing well currently. It’s not a review of the season or managerial performance.

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Coops on a roll on 21:24 - Nov 3 with 939 viewsReslovenSwan1

Coops on a roll on 20:48 - Nov 3 by Dr_Parnassus

Dr P “may have” or “Dr P did”?

Very important clarification needed there, especially with your reputation for misrepresenting the truth and deliberately misquoting people. I shall allow you to amend, recant or double down.

As for your suggestions of “arbitrary” starting points. Your suggestion is nonsense, you have decided when they have both settled, given one manager more than double the time than the other despite worse situation for the manager given less time by you, and decided to conveniently start counting from 12 matches in.

I am afraid when you look at a managers record, a teams record, a players record…. They don’t start on game 15 with a caveat *he was still probably settling in.

I’m afraid your contribution to this one is ludicrous.

You either back Martin to better Coopers record this season or you don’t. But you certainly won’t be picking and choosing which games to include and which ones not to on my watch.


I am following PPG for Cooper and Martin from game 12 when both were on 14 point whether you like it or not. It was convenient simply because both teams were on level points after 12 games. Cooper was on a the back of a good 'new managers bounce' he also had at Swansea .

I will post this PPG October - May simply to annoy you. Remember I started this assessment after game 12 not game 16 so it is fair.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2021 21:26]

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Coops on a roll on 21:28 - Nov 3 with 923 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 21:24 - Nov 3 by ReslovenSwan1

I am following PPG for Cooper and Martin from game 12 when both were on 14 point whether you like it or not. It was convenient simply because both teams were on level points after 12 games. Cooper was on a the back of a good 'new managers bounce' he also had at Swansea .

I will post this PPG October - May simply to annoy you. Remember I started this assessment after game 12 not game 16 so it is fair.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2021 21:26]


You can follow whatever you like.

But it won’t pass without detailed examination from me and explanation why your selective recording is nonsense. It doesn’t annoy me in the slightest, I find it hilarious.

It’s like me saying “I’m not going to count any losses from Cooper because I believe he may have had a headache on those days, maybe wasn’t feeling settled on those days either”.

The teams may have been on level points, but the managers most certainly were not. We are comparing the managers record not the teams record.

You back your views or you don’t. Making half views and fraudulently shaping complete data sets into convenient ones will never wash.

Happy counting.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2021 21:30]

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Coops on a roll on 21:51 - Nov 3 with 915 viewsReslovenSwan1

Coops on a roll on 21:28 - Nov 3 by Dr_Parnassus

You can follow whatever you like.

But it won’t pass without detailed examination from me and explanation why your selective recording is nonsense. It doesn’t annoy me in the slightest, I find it hilarious.

It’s like me saying “I’m not going to count any losses from Cooper because I believe he may have had a headache on those days, maybe wasn’t feeling settled on those days either”.

The teams may have been on level points, but the managers most certainly were not. We are comparing the managers record not the teams record.

You back your views or you don’t. Making half views and fraudulently shaping complete data sets into convenient ones will never wash.

Happy counting.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2021 21:30]


I am counting a window from when I was reviewing your posts game 12 to the end of the season. This window is a an assessment on even terms. Martin claimed the players he inherited from Cooper were not fit and did not fully work to his methods. This removes Martin's excuses in effect.

I believe that both Forest and Swansea will be closely matched because Cooper is actually a successful manager at this level. They could even be play off rivals. Your comparison about headaches is a poor effort. Cooper could using a 'whole season approach' be slightly above Martin but not by much. After game 12 both managers were "happy with their squads".

I believe the final table will be a reasonable basis for comparing the mangers performances over the 'next 34 games' and pointed it out to the readership that Martin in this period had no excuses.

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Coops on a roll on 21:59 - Nov 3 with 908 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 21:51 - Nov 3 by ReslovenSwan1

I am counting a window from when I was reviewing your posts game 12 to the end of the season. This window is a an assessment on even terms. Martin claimed the players he inherited from Cooper were not fit and did not fully work to his methods. This removes Martin's excuses in effect.

I believe that both Forest and Swansea will be closely matched because Cooper is actually a successful manager at this level. They could even be play off rivals. Your comparison about headaches is a poor effort. Cooper could using a 'whole season approach' be slightly above Martin but not by much. After game 12 both managers were "happy with their squads".

I believe the final table will be a reasonable basis for comparing the mangers performances over the 'next 34 games' and pointed it out to the readership that Martin in this period had no excuses.


It’s not on even terms. Or anything that can even be remotely described as such.

You are taking away a vital piece of management which is the beginning period…. You are taking away excellent form from Cooper (despite the hurdles he had to use his managerial ability to overcome), in order to give another manager a free pass as he struggled to overcome his.

We don’t want to be giving any managers “an out” by bowing to their excuses and shaping data to suit them.

The skill in management is overcoming hurdles, such as Cooper overcoming the fact he was unable to bring any players in, unable to have a pre season with them, taking over a team rock bottom and low on confidence while having to teach them a new way of playing in a matter of days.

But taking those reasons and suggesting we don’t count early games is laughable, especially when one manager coped incredibly well with early teething problems due to his skillset and has done so at every club he has been to.

Whether you believe looking at the final positions of the teams is reasonable, when one manager took over on level points with the rest of the league while another had a 12 point handicap… is completely irrelevant….. It’s as far from reasonable as you can get.

It just screams that you have no confidence in the opinion you allude to have.

Taking away some wins from Cooper because you don’t believe he was settled in, is one of (if not THE) most laughable pieces of “analytical thinking” (I use the term loosely in this case) that I have come across on this forum.

And there has been a fair bit. Congratulations.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2021 22:10]

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Coops on a roll on 22:20 - Nov 3 with 891 viewsDr_Parnassus

Just found a website that tracks managerial records, so no more manual workings out which is nice.

Thankfully it doesn’t subscribe to the heavily biased opinion that we must take away wins from Cooper and also take away defeats from Martin and is a fair and equal data source.

Anyway, I’ll be posting these from now on. It also has career stats, current goals scored, conceded and win %.



……..


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Coops on a roll on 22:38 - Nov 3 with 885 viewsTreforys_Jack

Loving the thread, can see it going on and on..................In fairness Martin did have to undo the regimented brainwashing that Cooper instilled in the players. Seeing Grimes play now is a beautiful thing and Naughton has actually started passing the ball in a forwards direction and is one of our standout performers.
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Coops on a roll on 22:45 - Nov 3 with 878 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 22:38 - Nov 3 by Treforys_Jack

Loving the thread, can see it going on and on..................In fairness Martin did have to undo the regimented brainwashing that Cooper instilled in the players. Seeing Grimes play now is a beautiful thing and Naughton has actually started passing the ball in a forwards direction and is one of our standout performers.


It will go on all season, without question.

It seems Cooper had to overcome Houghton’s regimented brainwashing too, if that’s the case.

Just a shame certain individuals couldn’t back their thoughts outright and had to heavily doctor them in order to get a pretty large leg up.

Always happy to back my thoughts, the chance of them being incorrect has no effect on how firmly I state my thoughts. That’s of course in part because it’s incredibly rare that they are

Resolven doesn’t have that luxury.

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Coops on a roll on 20:26 - Nov 6 with 715 viewsDr_Parnassus

As requested:-



And


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Coops on a roll on 03:45 - Feb 10 with 513 viewsDr_Parnassus

Coops on a roll on 22:49 - Nov 2 by ItchySphincter

Update it.

Have the courage of your convictions, you might be proven right. Not that it matters mind, but it was your initiative.


Trying to find YJB’s post where he bet on points per game of both managers, he said Martin would beat Cooper. Can’t find it, anyone know?

I pledged the winnings to Keith’s charity so would be nice to locate it.

However in my search I stumbled across this and realised it hasn’t been updated for a while.

So as promised:



[Post edited 10 Feb 2022 3:53]

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Coops on a roll on 10:13 - Feb 10 with 390 viewsKeithHaynes

He has done remarkably well, better than I expected for sure. I think he has the right players doing the simple things very well. From where he was to where he is in the league is superb. I suppose now all he has to do is hold firm and keep his bottle when or if they make the play offs.

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