| Angela Rayner 15:31 - Jan 5 with 3487 views | controversial_jack |
Wiping the floor with Boris. I didn't think she had it in her, but she's amusing and forceful. It's good to see. |  | | |  |
| Angela Rayner on 17:11 - Jan 5 with 2589 views | felixstowe_jack |
She hardly wiped the floor it was supposed to be PMQ time but it took her 5 minutes to ask her first question after she decided to give a party political broadcast first. Admittedly she did have a few funny lines but she is a politician.
Here only question seemed to be on inflation which is a bit rich coming from a Labour party that was responsible for rampant double figures in the past.
She could not see that over the last 10 years the UK has had historically low inflation which had been risen this year due the a surge in global demand following the end of the pandemic and a massive hike in global energy prices.
She also had no answer when Boris pointed out that unemployment was higher under every Labour government since the war at the end of their term of office than at the beginning.
She also was pretty much torn apart when Andrew Neil interviewed her the other day. | |
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| Angela Rayner on 17:36 - Jan 5 with 2561 views | Flashberryjack |
| Angela Rayner on 17:11 - Jan 5 by felixstowe_jack |
She hardly wiped the floor it was supposed to be PMQ time but it took her 5 minutes to ask her first question after she decided to give a party political broadcast first. Admittedly she did have a few funny lines but she is a politician.
Here only question seemed to be on inflation which is a bit rich coming from a Labour party that was responsible for rampant double figures in the past.
She could not see that over the last 10 years the UK has had historically low inflation which had been risen this year due the a surge in global demand following the end of the pandemic and a massive hike in global energy prices.
She also had no answer when Boris pointed out that unemployment was higher under every Labour government since the war at the end of their term of office than at the beginning.
She also was pretty much torn apart when Andrew Neil interviewed her the other day. |
I'm not a massive Boris fan, but I can't stand that sneering Rayner woman, anybody see her expenses, pretty eye watering, just another trough feeder under a different coloured flag. |  |
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| Angela Rayner on 17:50 - Jan 5 with 2539 views | raynor94 |
| Angela Rayner on 17:36 - Jan 5 by Flashberryjack |
I'm not a massive Boris fan, but I can't stand that sneering Rayner woman, anybody see her expenses, pretty eye watering, just another trough feeder under a different coloured flag. |
This, big time! |  |
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| Angela Rayner on 17:52 - Jan 5 with 2536 views | jack_lord |
| Angela Rayner on 17:11 - Jan 5 by felixstowe_jack |
She hardly wiped the floor it was supposed to be PMQ time but it took her 5 minutes to ask her first question after she decided to give a party political broadcast first. Admittedly she did have a few funny lines but she is a politician.
Here only question seemed to be on inflation which is a bit rich coming from a Labour party that was responsible for rampant double figures in the past.
She could not see that over the last 10 years the UK has had historically low inflation which had been risen this year due the a surge in global demand following the end of the pandemic and a massive hike in global energy prices.
She also had no answer when Boris pointed out that unemployment was higher under every Labour government since the war at the end of their term of office than at the beginning.
She also was pretty much torn apart when Andrew Neil interviewed her the other day. |
That's quite bizarre of Boris to say that because unemployment was percentage wise lower when the Labour party was voted out in 2010 than when it was elected in 1996. Stanley Baldwin (twice) and Margaret thatcher, both of the Conservative party, were in charge when the UK witnesses its three highest rates of unemployment. Thatcher would be a different piece of history if the Falklands had not occurred.
They are all politicians giving political answers and bending statistics.
I'm surprised Boris didn't mention that the UK was in the EU when we had the historical low inflation. |  |
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| Angela Rayner on 18:26 - Jan 5 with 2483 views | Gwyn737 |
| Angela Rayner on 17:52 - Jan 5 by jack_lord |
That's quite bizarre of Boris to say that because unemployment was percentage wise lower when the Labour party was voted out in 2010 than when it was elected in 1996. Stanley Baldwin (twice) and Margaret thatcher, both of the Conservative party, were in charge when the UK witnesses its three highest rates of unemployment. Thatcher would be a different piece of history if the Falklands had not occurred.
They are all politicians giving political answers and bending statistics.
I'm surprised Boris didn't mention that the UK was in the EU when we had the historical low inflation. |
He also managed to tell 4 other straight lies but people don’t seem to care any more. | | | |
| Angela Rayner on 18:42 - Jan 5 with 2460 views | Flashberryjack |
| Angela Rayner on 18:26 - Jan 5 by Gwyn737 |
He also managed to tell 4 other straight lies but people don’t seem to care any more. |
Wow ! politician tells lies, whatever next. | |
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| Angela Rayner on 18:48 - Jan 5 with 2446 views | Boundy |
| Angela Rayner on 18:42 - Jan 5 by Flashberryjack |
Wow ! politician tells lies, whatever next. |
and strangely enough one of the biggest political liars this country has had the misfortune to call its PM just got knighted . | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Angela Rayner on 19:11 - Jan 5 with 2416 views | jack_lord |
| Angela Rayner on 18:48 - Jan 5 by Boundy |
and strangely enough one of the biggest political liars this country has had the misfortune to call its PM just got knighted . |
and the other one was given an even higher award | |
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| Angela Rayner on 19:27 - Jan 5 with 2405 views | Gwyn737 |
| Angela Rayner on 18:42 - Jan 5 by Flashberryjack |
Wow ! politician tells lies, whatever next. |
And they shouldn’t.
That’s my position whatever the party and whoever the politician. | | | |
| Angela Rayner on 20:51 - Jan 5 with 2347 views | controversial_jack |
| Angela Rayner on 17:50 - Jan 5 by raynor94 |
This, big time! |
You don't like her, you don't like Starmer, you didn't like Corbyn. Why not just admit that you are a working class Tory? | | | |
| Angela Rayner on 21:18 - Jan 5 with 2317 views | majorraglan |
That’s a very interesting read, I knew the bit about spending on Health and Education, but som3 of the other stuff is very interesting and certainly puts a question mark against a lot of the stuff we are drip fed and therefore assume to be correct. [Post edited 5 Jan 2022 21:19]
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| Angela Rayner on 21:20 - Jan 5 with 2311 views | majorraglan |
| Angela Rayner on 18:26 - Jan 5 by Gwyn737 |
He also managed to tell 4 other straight lies but people don’t seem to care any more. |
I know politicians lie, but it shouldn’t be allowed to take place. If they can lie brazenly in Parliament with impunity, what on earth is going on behind closed doors. | | | |
| Angela Rayner on 10:02 - Jan 6 with 2222 views | onehunglow |
| Angela Rayner on 20:51 - Jan 5 by controversial_jack |
You don't like her, you don't like Starmer, you didn't like Corbyn. Why not just admit that you are a working class Tory? |
He might just want to vote for whom he likes instead of doing so becaue his dad did or where he lives.
Working class my@rse.
They voted for Thatcher in their droves and bought their council houses for a song;some became landlords,some shareholders. I mean ,the working class aspiring. Innit. | |
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| Angela Rayner on 10:04 - Jan 6 with 2225 views | builthjack |
| Angela Rayner on 17:52 - Jan 5 by jack_lord |
That's quite bizarre of Boris to say that because unemployment was percentage wise lower when the Labour party was voted out in 2010 than when it was elected in 1996. Stanley Baldwin (twice) and Margaret thatcher, both of the Conservative party, were in charge when the UK witnesses its three highest rates of unemployment. Thatcher would be a different piece of history if the Falklands had not occurred.
They are all politicians giving political answers and bending statistics.
I'm surprised Boris didn't mention that the UK was in the EU when we had the historical low inflation. |
Johnson is a daily liar. Fact. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Angela Rayner on 10:36 - Jan 6 with 2207 views | jack_lord |
| Angela Rayner on 10:02 - Jan 6 by onehunglow |
He might just want to vote for whom he likes instead of doing so becaue his dad did or where he lives.
Working class my@rse.
They voted for Thatcher in their droves and bought their council houses for a song;some became landlords,some shareholders. I mean ,the working class aspiring. Innit. |
Why are you bringing the voters in the South of England in to the equation? Why do they always vote Conservative, are they afraid their parents may disown them? | |
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| Angela Rayner on 10:43 - Jan 6 with 2203 views | Whiterockin |
| Angela Rayner on 10:04 - Jan 6 by builthjack |
Johnson is a daily liar. Fact. |
Johnson is a politician, fact. All politicians lie fact. |  | | |
| Angela Rayner on 10:45 - Jan 6 with 2197 views | jack_lord |
| Angela Rayner on 10:36 - Jan 6 by jack_lord |
Why are you bringing the voters in the South of England in to the equation? Why do they always vote Conservative, are they afraid their parents may disown them? |
One of the biggest problems for political scientists is to try to explain why people vote the way they do because there are so many different factors that can influence a voter’s choice and people cannot always clearly express the reasons for their choice. Here we look at social, rational choice and class alignment.
The studies
The first detailed studies of voting related to the American Presidential elections in the 1940s and were undertaken with the expectation that the campaign and the discussion of issues during it were the main factors affecting voting.
They found that, actually, the campaign had little effect and that the main determinants of how people voted were social factors and, in the American context, class, religion and ethnicity were the main social factors.
The study of European voting patterns by Lipset and Rokkan and the electoral surveys of Butler and Stokes in Britain in the 1960s seemed to confirm this.
Butler and Stokes in Political Change in Britain concluded that the important social factor in Britain was social class so that voters had a strong perception of whether they were working class or middle class.
The majority of the working class voted Labour and the majority of the middle class voted Conservative through a process of class alignment, although there was always a significant proportion that did not vote the way the rest of their class did.
Other writers argued that neighbourhood factors were important so that people were subject to influences from people around them who were of the same class.
The stereotype would be the working class council estate where people worked in nearby factories or frequented the local pub or working men’s club as against the suburban middle class area with different local institutions where people met, such as the Women’s Institute and the golf club.
Butler and Stokes also found that a large proportion of voters supported the party that their parents did. Thus people were socialised through family connections into support for a party as they grew up and this would tend to remain with them for the rest of their life.
This meant that there was partisan alignment with voters identifying with one of the two main parties.
The great majority of people strongly identified with the Labour or the Conservative Party and voted accordingly. Thus class alignment and partisan alignment in Britain were closely connected though not identical.
This would also explain some of the middle class Labour supporters who had grown up in working class families and kept their party support as they moved into middle class occupations.
Butler and Stokes argued that differences in election results were decided by which group tuned out to vote in the greatest number and by the small number of floating voters who were weakly aligned to parties and who might switch between parties.
Evidence of Partisan dealignment
From the 1970s there was evidence of partisan dealignment:-
— The two main parties were getting a smaller proportion of the overall vote. In 1951 the Labour and Conservative parties had over 96% of the vote. In the first of the two general elections this had fallen to 75% with an increase in voting for the Liberals and the SNP and in 2010 general election it was down to 65%.
— There was more voter volatility in national elections, by-elections, local elections and in the opinion polls demonstrating that voters were ready to abandon their traditional loyalties. Plaid Cymru and the SNP made breakthroughs in by-elections in the 1960s as did the Liberal Party.
— Between 1964 and 1979 the proportion of voters saying that they ‘very strongly’ supported one of the main two parties declined from 40% to 19%, although the proportion of voters saying that they supported a party, if only weakly changed much less.
Class Dealignment
This seemed to be accompanied by a process of class dealignment:-
The proportion of voters who voted along traditional class lines fell from 65% in 1959 to 47% in 1983. Butler and Stokes in their second edition of Political Change in Britain found a weakening of traditional patterns of voting among the youngest voters.
This has continued so that in 2010 Labour had the support of more middle class than working class voters.
Class dealignment is often seen as only affecting the Labour Party because it has lost some of its traditional working class support but there has also been middle class dealignment affecting the Conservative Party.
Even though the middle class has become larger, the Conservatives have lost middle class support to the Liberal Democrats, to the SNP in Scotland and even to Labour.
Reasons for a decline in class loyalties
It was not difficult to put forward reasons for the decline of traditional party and class loyalties:-
— The growth of public sector employment and white collar unions led to more support for Labour among middle class groups
— A more affluent home owning and suburban working class especially in the South and the Midlands, more ready to vote Conservative
— A decline in manufacturing jobs and the traditional manual jobs and trade union organisation that went with it.
— A greater disparity of income between the trade union organised and the unorganised working class
— More people going into higher education and an electorate with more access to information through the media
— Immigration and new patterns of ethnic minority voting
— New issues of national identity and devolution in Scotland and Wales
— A more secular society with residual patterns of Anglican, Catholic and Nonconformist voting declining
Rational Choice Theory
A major alternative to the idea that voting is determined by people’s social background is rational choice theory.
The American political scientist, Anthony Downs, in the 1950s saw voters as making the same sorts of decisions as consumers do when they decide which product to buy.
Voters have preferences as to what policies they want.
These may be the policies that most benefit them personally or policies they might believe in strongly such as the importance of international aid.
They will look at what the parties are offering and choose the party that most closely matched their preferences.
Political scientists also argued that as the electorate became better educated a process of ‘cognitive mobilisation’ took place so that voters were more aware of political issues and more ready to find out what the policies of the political parties were.
With the evidence of a decline in class and partisan alignment, political scientists began to look at the opinion poll evidence as to which issues the voters thought were most important and which party they thought was the had the best policies on the issues, with the assumption that voters would make a rational choice on this basis as to which party to vote for.
However, in the 1987 and 1992 elections, voters named the issues that they thought most important, especially health, and saw Labour as having the best policies, but it was the Conservatives who won the two elections.
Rational Choice theorists now argue that it is not detailed policies as such that decide voter choice in most cases, as voters rarely know what these are, but instead a few valence issues. These act as a shorthand for voters to judge which is the best party and, in particular:-
— Who do they think is the best party leader/potential or proven Prime Minister?
— Who is best at running the economy?
— Who will ensure the best public services?
The most thorough recent study of voting behaviour in Britain by Howard Clark and others, Political Choice in Britain, used survey data from 1964 to 2002 and found that the valence rational choice model provided the best explanation of voting behaviour especially in the most recent periods.
They also found that partisan support was not stable. Voters might change their allegiance and then identify more strongly with their new party for several elections after this.
This switch came especially around defining elections which set the political landscape for a decade such as the victory of Margaret Thatcher in 1979 or Tony Blair in 1997. | |
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| Angela Rayner on 12:02 - Jan 6 with 2150 views | Catullus |
| Angela Rayner on 20:51 - Jan 5 by controversial_jack |
You don't like her, you don't like Starmer, you didn't like Corbyn. Why not just admit that you are a working class Tory? |
I don't like Rayner, she's a bit of a gobshite to be honest. I had high hopes for Starmer but he's turned into a wet lettuce. I might have liked Corbyn personally but would never have voted for him.
Do you think that makes me Tory too?
I didn't watch it but reading the comments it seems clear we see what we want to see. If I had watched it I would probably have seen a gobshite up against a proven liar with one getting quite shouty and he other trying to be funny but failing. I'd have seen two idiots. | |
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| Angela Rayner on 12:09 - Jan 6 with 2137 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Angela Rayner on 17:50 - Jan 5 by raynor94 |
This, big time! |
For a steelworker you come across as a bit of d*ck. Just because you earn a good wage don’t forget one minute think that the conservatives look upon you any better than a dog turd on their shoes.
They’re mostly public schoolboys - what the hell do you have in common with them (apart from your obviously overly high opinion of yourself of course)?
Even the red wallers up north that “lent” Boris their vote are beginning to wake up to him now. Wake up is it??? |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Angela Rayner on 16:00 - Jan 6 with 2047 views | controversial_jack |
| Angela Rayner on 12:02 - Jan 6 by Catullus |
I don't like Rayner, she's a bit of a gobshite to be honest. I had high hopes for Starmer but he's turned into a wet lettuce. I might have liked Corbyn personally but would never have voted for him.
Do you think that makes me Tory too?
I didn't watch it but reading the comments it seems clear we see what we want to see. If I had watched it I would probably have seen a gobshite up against a proven liar with one getting quite shouty and he other trying to be funny but failing. I'd have seen two idiots. |
I don't know what you vote for, From what i see, Raynor dislikes anything labour, whoever is the leader.
Politics at the top level is adversarial. Corbyn tried to break the mould by not getting personal, but that wasn't appreciated by many. | | | |
| Angela Rayner on 16:02 - Jan 6 with 2045 views | raynor94 |
| Angela Rayner on 20:51 - Jan 5 by controversial_jack |
You don't like her, you don't like Starmer, you didn't like Corbyn. Why not just admit that you are a working class Tory? |
Damn! You have outed me.
You are one sharp cookie | |
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| Angela Rayner on 16:52 - Jan 6 with 2013 views | builthjack |
Johnson gets battered every where he goes | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Angela Rayner on 17:39 - Jan 6 with 1993 views | raynor94 |
| Angela Rayner on 12:09 - Jan 6 by Brynmill_Jack |
For a steelworker you come across as a bit of d*ck. Just because you earn a good wage don’t forget one minute think that the conservatives look upon you any better than a dog turd on their shoes.
They’re mostly public schoolboys - what the hell do you have in common with them (apart from your obviously overly high opinion of yourself of course)?
Even the red wallers up north that “lent” Boris their vote are beginning to wake up to him now. Wake up is it??? |
Ex steelworker, I retired 6 years ago, ah right because I detest the Labour left wing I'm a bit of a dick.
Thanks for pointing that out | |
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| Angela Rayner on 20:40 - Jan 6 with 1945 views | onehunglow |
| Angela Rayner on 12:09 - Jan 6 by Brynmill_Jack |
For a steelworker you come across as a bit of d*ck. Just because you earn a good wage don’t forget one minute think that the conservatives look upon you any better than a dog turd on their shoes.
They’re mostly public schoolboys - what the hell do you have in common with them (apart from your obviously overly high opinion of yourself of course)?
Even the red wallers up north that “lent” Boris their vote are beginning to wake up to him now. Wake up is it??? |
Pitiful class chip on shoulder warrior garbage.
Majority of Conservative voters are as Labour voters. Few Labour voters wear cloth caps and have whippets to hand and have bread and dripping sarnies as they cum lop from pit.
Similiarly most Tory voters do not go to public schools nor even have Tarquinius and Pippa for kids .
Steelworkers now stereotyped. Ye Gods
We have so much work to do to rid ourselves of inferiority complex.
Listen Bryn,going to public school doesn’t make you smart nor privileged .
We have an immoral PM who is thick as mince .
Plenty of brains in Comprehensive so never feel THEY are better in any way .
Being sent away to boarding school is not privilege but child abuse | |
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