| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else 13:49 - Jan 7 with 10656 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
The operational definitions around Covid need to be revised. A 40% incease would account for the increase in hospitalisations in Wales since early December.
Death figures are also going to be inflated.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/sta [Post edited 7 Jan 2022 13:51]
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:32 - Jan 19 with 1076 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:07 - Jan 19 by Scotia |
More diversion. It's embarrasssing now. It's all you ever do.
What a pathetic response from a man who laughably attempts to extrapolate data from 20% of the population across the remaing 80% and seems to think its fair to compare the outcome with data from the 80% group. But there we are - if you don't want to share that info then I'll draw the same conclusion as the FOI / ONS data. It's almost certainly wrong.
I asked my friend at the gym lunchtime (Anaethestist at Morriston ITU) what is likely to go on a covid death certificate. He said he would be quite surprised if just Covid 19 was on there under any circumstance, unless perhaps to avoid "extreme old age" or "natural causes" which is generally frowned upon. . He also said that a single entry as a cause of death is very rare as death certificate stats are used to assess general health of the population.
He said the most frequent Covid 19 death he has seen would have "Pneumonitis" as the first entry, with Covid 19 and possibly another comorbidity in the other boxes. I'm not going to pretend to know what pneumonitis is but I'm pretty certain these people would not have developed it had it not been for catching covid. |
I have already posted the data, you actually think you know better than 4 of the country's top statisticians.
OK.
Anecdotal evidence from someone who has probably never even seen a death certificate.
Pneumonitis is not most likely as it is a dry infection, more likely to be pneumonia or respiratory failure.
In the UK the most common comorbidity was diabetes, it must goes to show just how little your mate knows.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2022 15:41]
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:43 - Jan 19 with 1051 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:29 - Jan 18 by Scotia |
Stop trying to analyse stuff please.
You cannot extrapolate data from just 20% of the population across the entire population and compare it to similar information from 80% of the population. It is inevitable that the data will be skewed to the larger group.
The fact that there aren't significantly more infections, deaths and hospitalisation's in the 80% group speaks volumes. |
You have massive ego if you think you know better than the top medical statisticians in the country.
Enough said. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:44 - Jan 19 with 1050 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:29 - Jan 18 by Scotia |
Stop trying to analyse stuff please.
You cannot extrapolate data from just 20% of the population across the entire population and compare it to similar information from 80% of the population. It is inevitable that the data will be skewed to the larger group.
The fact that there aren't significantly more infections, deaths and hospitalisation's in the 80% group speaks volumes. |
You have a massive ego if you think you know better than the top medical statisticians in the country.
Enough said. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:47 - Jan 19 with 1042 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:19 - Jan 18 by Scotia |
"The supporting evidence that they died of covid rather than with covid is the huge amount of excess deaths. It's either a particularly unlucky year or something led to a lot of people dying prematurely".
During a pandemic after testing positive for covid, what do you think killed them? You've ignored the other questions so I assume you will this too.
From that very limited information it is impossible to draw conclusions. That is the entire problem.
It asks one closed question, gets a closed answer and uses that to completely misrepresent what that answer demonstrates.
You reported it as fact and can't back it up. |
It is not for me to backup anything the data stands on its own.
The fact you can't or won't accept it is your problem as you have nothing else to offer. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:54 - Jan 19 with 1033 views | felixstowe_jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:47 - Jan 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
It is not for me to backup anything the data stands on its own.
The fact you can't or won't accept it is your problem as you have nothing else to offer. |
Correct the fact is excess deaths are now over 150,000.
While the number dying after testing positive is also 150,000.
Must be 150,000 coincidences. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 20:43 - Jan 19 with 990 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:54 - Jan 19 by felixstowe_jack |
Correct the fact is excess deaths are now over 150,000.
While the number dying after testing positive is also 150,000.
Must be 150,000 coincidences. |
But those excess deaths aren't from COVID which you would know if you had looked at the ONS data. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:25 - Jan 19 with 974 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 15:47 - Jan 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
It is not for me to backup anything the data stands on its own.
The fact you can't or won't accept it is your problem as you have nothing else to offer. |
The data doesn't stand up under any interpretation apart from yours.
Go and find a death certificate and read it. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 22:23 - Jan 19 with 954 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:25 - Jan 19 by Scotia |
The data doesn't stand up under any interpretation apart from yours.
Go and find a death certificate and read it. |
Like I said, it is not my interpretation, it is top class statisticians.
As to death certificates, that came from the ONS, you really are completely out of your depth.
Enough of your bullshit. | | | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 07:37 - Jan 20 with 909 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 22:23 - Jan 19 by A_Fans_Dad |
Like I said, it is not my interpretation, it is top class statisticians.
As to death certificates, that came from the ONS, you really are completely out of your depth.
Enough of your bullshit. |
But both sets of data are being completely misrepresented. In the cases of the / 100,000 by you as the "top statisticians" aren't intending it as a comparison - for the reasons I mentioned but you don't understand and the Death Certificate stats by the anti-vax crowd becasue they don't understand the process.
The death certificate info needs a far deeper dive, why haven't the anti-vax brigade done this? They could but haven't, ask yourself why. Believe it or not I worked for the ONS for a while.
And the / 100,000 population would show a far, far higher bias towards poor vacine performance if the vaccine wasn't working due to the huge proportion of population involved. It doesn't becasue the vaccines are working. End of. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 09:17 - Jan 20 with 900 views | felixstowe_jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 07:37 - Jan 20 by Scotia |
But both sets of data are being completely misrepresented. In the cases of the / 100,000 by you as the "top statisticians" aren't intending it as a comparison - for the reasons I mentioned but you don't understand and the Death Certificate stats by the anti-vax crowd becasue they don't understand the process.
The death certificate info needs a far deeper dive, why haven't the anti-vax brigade done this? They could but haven't, ask yourself why. Believe it or not I worked for the ONS for a while.
And the / 100,000 population would show a far, far higher bias towards poor vacine performance if the vaccine wasn't working due to the huge proportion of population involved. It doesn't becasue the vaccines are working. End of. |
Correct you only have to look at tye vastly reduce death rates since the vaccine rollout started. | |
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 19:12 - Jan 20 with 877 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 07:37 - Jan 20 by Scotia |
But both sets of data are being completely misrepresented. In the cases of the / 100,000 by you as the "top statisticians" aren't intending it as a comparison - for the reasons I mentioned but you don't understand and the Death Certificate stats by the anti-vax crowd becasue they don't understand the process.
The death certificate info needs a far deeper dive, why haven't the anti-vax brigade done this? They could but haven't, ask yourself why. Believe it or not I worked for the ONS for a while.
And the / 100,000 population would show a far, far higher bias towards poor vacine performance if the vaccine wasn't working due to the huge proportion of population involved. It doesn't becasue the vaccines are working. End of. |
You are full of opinion and absolutely no facts or figures.
You don't even know what is on a death certificate as you have already proved.
You absolutely do not understand how simple statistics work, the /100,000 is not biased towards the larger sample it is biased towards the smaller sample.
Sample size 10 with 1 infection gives 10,000/100,000 instead of having 1
Sample size 90 with 1 infection gives 1,111/100,000 instead of also having 1
Now add 1 more infection to each.
small sample = 20,000/100,000 instead of having 2
Large sample = 2,222/100,000 instead of also having 2
Using /100,000 or any other "Rate" is to compensate for these difference in population size.
The explanation is here
http://www.experts123.com/q/wh | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 08:29 - Jan 21 with 842 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 19:12 - Jan 20 by A_Fans_Dad |
You are full of opinion and absolutely no facts or figures.
You don't even know what is on a death certificate as you have already proved.
You absolutely do not understand how simple statistics work, the /100,000 is not biased towards the larger sample it is biased towards the smaller sample.
Sample size 10 with 1 infection gives 10,000/100,000 instead of having 1
Sample size 90 with 1 infection gives 1,111/100,000 instead of also having 1
Now add 1 more infection to each.
small sample = 20,000/100,000 instead of having 2
Large sample = 2,222/100,000 instead of also having 2
Using /100,000 or any other "Rate" is to compensate for these difference in population size.
The explanation is here
http://www.experts123.com/q/wh |
I know that's how you think the stats work in the published / 100,000 figures but you're making an error.
Those calculations are not appropriate becasue the populations aren't constrained within the individual groups, the / 100,000 figure is extrapolated across the entire population rather than / 100,000 vaccinated and /100,000 unvaccinated.
In the vaccinated / unvaccinated population the data of the vaccinated (in the UK, say 53000000) is extrapolated across the remainnging population of 66000000. The same goes for the unvaccinated the data for 13000000 is exrapolated across 66000000.
So you are comparing the incidence per 100000 (across the entire population of 66 millons for one group of 53 million and another group of 13 million. There are 40 million more opporrtunities for infection in the vaccinated group
The stats under these circumstances will always demonstrate a higher incidence in the larger group because that group is absolutely massively larger.
The fact that the infections, deaths and hospitalisations aren't proportionately higher in the vaccinated group demonstrate the vaccine is working. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:25 - Jan 21 with 799 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 08:29 - Jan 21 by Scotia |
I know that's how you think the stats work in the published / 100,000 figures but you're making an error.
Those calculations are not appropriate becasue the populations aren't constrained within the individual groups, the / 100,000 figure is extrapolated across the entire population rather than / 100,000 vaccinated and /100,000 unvaccinated.
In the vaccinated / unvaccinated population the data of the vaccinated (in the UK, say 53000000) is extrapolated across the remainnging population of 66000000. The same goes for the unvaccinated the data for 13000000 is exrapolated across 66000000.
So you are comparing the incidence per 100000 (across the entire population of 66 millons for one group of 53 million and another group of 13 million. There are 40 million more opporrtunities for infection in the vaccinated group
The stats under these circumstances will always demonstrate a higher incidence in the larger group because that group is absolutely massively larger.
The fact that the infections, deaths and hospitalisations aren't proportionately higher in the vaccinated group demonstrate the vaccine is working. |
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The rates are just for the group it applies to so that it can be compared to another group using the same rate calculation.
There is no extropolation, no wonder you don't believe anything about rates when you have no clue of what they represent.
I gave you the official definition and you try to re-write it.
Enough of your crap, it just never stops. [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 21:26]
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:32 - Jan 21 with 796 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:25 - Jan 21 by A_Fans_Dad |
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The rates are just for the group it applies to so that it can be compared to another group using the same rate calculation.
There is no extropolation, no wonder you don't believe anything about rates when you have no clue of what they represent.
I gave you the official definition and you try to re-write it.
Enough of your crap, it just never stops. [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 21:26]
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No it's not. It's across the population. Check.
It's the same for statistics based on other variables such as age, where it clearly shows the increased vulnerability. That's the kind of thing it's intended to compare. Groups of a comparable size.
Your "definition" is basically what I've been saying, it refers to / 100000 of birth defects on Oahu, the population of Oahu, because its comparing the incidence to the rest of the country. If that was extrapolated to the entire population of the USA as is the equivalent with ONS data in the UK it would be significantly less. [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 21:55]
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 22:00 - Jan 21 with 783 views | 1462jack |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:25 - Jan 21 by A_Fans_Dad |
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The rates are just for the group it applies to so that it can be compared to another group using the same rate calculation.
There is no extropolation, no wonder you don't believe anything about rates when you have no clue of what they represent.
I gave you the official definition and you try to re-write it.
Enough of your crap, it just never stops. [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 21:26]
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I’m telling you now this person is one of the old posters before the split , they will go on and on and on they believe they know more than anyone and refuse to see things for what they are one of the insults they threw towards me has only been used by the said poster in the past . This poster only see things for their own point of view and will manipulate things to suit their own agenda ,it’s pointless mate I would just leave it |  | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 22:48 - Jan 21 with 763 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 21:32 - Jan 21 by Scotia |
No it's not. It's across the population. Check.
It's the same for statistics based on other variables such as age, where it clearly shows the increased vulnerability. That's the kind of thing it's intended to compare. Groups of a comparable size.
Your "definition" is basically what I've been saying, it refers to / 100000 of birth defects on Oahu, the population of Oahu, because its comparing the incidence to the rest of the country. If that was extrapolated to the entire population of the USA as is the equivalent with ONS data in the UK it would be significantly less. [Post edited 21 Jan 2022 21:55]
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I have for done more than just check, I have downloaded the raw data and confirmed all of the calculations and more. So have those Statisticians.
You are totally clueless about the subject.
Do the COVID vaccines prevent and cure Cancer? | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 07:50 - Jan 22 with 739 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 22:48 - Jan 21 by A_Fans_Dad |
I have for done more than just check, I have downloaded the raw data and confirmed all of the calculations and more. So have those Statisticians.
You are totally clueless about the subject.
Do the COVID vaccines prevent and cure Cancer? |
Then you'll realise I'm correct then.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplep
All references to per 100000 refer to people and not a sub group.
Another attempt at diversion. [Post edited 22 Jan 2022 7:54]
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| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 10:39 - Jan 22 with 704 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 07:50 - Jan 22 by Scotia |
Then you'll realise I'm correct then.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplep
All references to per 100000 refer to people and not a sub group.
Another attempt at diversion. [Post edited 22 Jan 2022 7:54]
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Totally 100% clueless.
The very first set of Comparison Data.
"Comparisons by age group"
Of course they refer to "people" as that is what is involved, groups of people, they are not talking about peguins, cats, dogs or any other "thing".
God the supidity burns in this one. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 11:50 - Jan 22 with 692 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 22:00 - Jan 21 by 1462jack |
I’m telling you now this person is one of the old posters before the split , they will go on and on and on they believe they know more than anyone and refuse to see things for what they are one of the insults they threw towards me has only been used by the said poster in the past . This poster only see things for their own point of view and will manipulate things to suit their own agenda ,it’s pointless mate I would just leave it |
I know he is an absolutely classic Troll, continually using Ad Homs, Straw Men, Appeals to Authority and Sealioning.
But it gives me a chance to get the data in to the post so that others might read it, so it helps to spread information.
He doesn't realise he helping. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 12:46 - Jan 22 with 678 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 07:50 - Jan 22 by Scotia |
Then you'll realise I'm correct then.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplep
All references to per 100000 refer to people and not a sub group.
Another attempt at diversion. [Post edited 22 Jan 2022 7:54]
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Are you going answer my question?
Do the Vaccines prevent, slow the spread or cure Cancer? | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 13:11 - Jan 22 with 667 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 22:00 - Jan 21 by 1462jack |
I’m telling you now this person is one of the old posters before the split , they will go on and on and on they believe they know more than anyone and refuse to see things for what they are one of the insults they threw towards me has only been used by the said poster in the past . This poster only see things for their own point of view and will manipulate things to suit their own agenda ,it’s pointless mate I would just leave it |
I'm not. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 13:12 - Jan 22 with 666 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 12:46 - Jan 22 by A_Fans_Dad |
Are you going answer my question?
Do the Vaccines prevent, slow the spread or cure Cancer? |
No. I'm not going to answer because I've never raised it.
And its a stupid question, probably with some sort of ulterior motive behind the inevitable answer that you have misunderstood. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 13:13 - Jan 22 with 664 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 11:50 - Jan 22 by A_Fans_Dad |
I know he is an absolutely classic Troll, continually using Ad Homs, Straw Men, Appeals to Authority and Sealioning.
But it gives me a chance to get the data in to the post so that others might read it, so it helps to spread information.
He doesn't realise he helping. |
You're making yourself look stupid. I don't need to help. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 13:17 - Jan 22 with 662 views | Scotia |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 10:39 - Jan 22 by A_Fans_Dad |
Totally 100% clueless.
The very first set of Comparison Data.
"Comparisons by age group"
Of course they refer to "people" as that is what is involved, groups of people, they are not talking about peguins, cats, dogs or any other "thing".
God the supidity burns in this one. |
Because age is the variable.
The other is per 100000 people. The are no subcategories.
Of course you're welcome to prove that there are. You've downloaded the data to give others the information, so let's see it. | | | |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 14:08 - Jan 22 with 651 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| 40% of 'Covid Patients' in Hospital for Something Else on 13:12 - Jan 22 by Scotia |
No. I'm not going to answer because I've never raised it.
And its a stupid question, probably with some sort of ulterior motive behind the inevitable answer that you have misunderstood. |
OK. | | | |
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