| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City 17:25 - Feb 2 with 5282 views | SwansIndependent |
 Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City 2nd Feb 2022 17:21Despite ‘not playing‘ for fifty plus days and with limited training opportunities Jamie Paterson is about to be welcomed back in to Russell Martin’s first team plans with Blackburn Rovers in mind. It most certainly isn’t a surprise that this is in Martin’s mind, but what exactly is going on in Paterson’s has to be of some concern. And of course who is still influencing him negatively.  0
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 15:49 - Feb 3 with 902 views | STID2017 |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 13:51 - Feb 3 by Sirjohnalot |
Money is no bar to mental illness. Some of the, outwardly, happiest, go lucky people suffer from depression. Sometimes a person could, on the face of it, have a great, successful career with a lovely family but are deeply troubled by their problems.
Gary Speed is a prime example of this. It's really unfair to label someone greedy or using a mental health card when we know nothing about the person.
He may be swinging the lead, he may be genuine. The point is we do not know. The club, as his employers owe him a duty of care, which is what they are doing. If he raises mental health issues and the club say 'do you, go and train in the reserves' he could sue for constructive dismissal. RM has played this perfectly. |
Excellent post.
None of us (bar those genuinely ITK ) know the truth yet some are quick to judge
Give the guy the benefit of the doubt |  |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 15:57 - Feb 3 with 898 views | PawelAbbott |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 14:19 - Feb 3 by Flashberryjack |
I never said it was a bar to mental illness, neither did Pawel, he just suggested that it was coincidental that his mental health surfaced at the exact time his agent was trying to improve his contract.
Maybe he has a history of previous mental health issues, if so I apologise, but If he is using mental health as an excuse to engineer a move or to gain an improved contract, then I think that's awful, and shows little respect to those that suffer from an illness that blights so many lives, young, old, rich or poor, that's why I'm with Pawel. |
If it had been that he mentally not in the state to play football, which is quite possible, then why did his agent not shutdown the bids from QPR. If he's not in a fit state to play then they should have told QPR straight out that there's no point putting in further bids as he is in no position to play currently.
I can only assume that didn't happen as further bids were made | | | |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:07 - Feb 3 with 868 views | onehunglow |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 15:57 - Feb 3 by PawelAbbott |
If it had been that he mentally not in the state to play football, which is quite possible, then why did his agent not shutdown the bids from QPR. If he's not in a fit state to play then they should have told QPR straight out that there's no point putting in further bids as he is in no position to play currently.
I can only assume that didn't happen as further bids were made |
Most folk go to work with things on their mind that have life changing consequences
Consider if you will the partner of someone with cancer and awaiting diagnosis and what treatment if any is appropriate .
There will be many countless of thousands of people right now worrying about family and health issues not being denied a pay rise to play football.
It is beyond disgusting .
Does nobody see this .? | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:10 - Feb 3 with 864 views | onehunglow |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 14:17 - Feb 3 by KeithHaynes |
I think you maybe need to review the managers quotes on this. |
I have,
I stand by every word
Latest is that Russ is fully happy with the owners which seems rather incongruous ifyou review all the quotes | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:16 - Feb 3 with 853 views | onehunglow |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 14:24 - Feb 3 by KeithHaynes |
I think you need to reflect on that.
Nobody knows his upbringing or situation before last month. Nobody has any idea as to how he feels and why. Any form mental health can arise at any time wether that be personal circumstances or personal experiences. PTSD frowned upon by the services and police saw many people take their lives as a result of their experiences. Men are three times more likely to commit suicide than women.
Cognitively he clearly hasn’t been able to function or deliver his practical skills. These days there has to be a more practical approach to a person who for whatever reason breaks down and cannot function. To say that isn’t a mental welfare issue is ridiculous, and totally ignorant to the well being of people who temporarily or permanently cannot manage their day to day lives.
It isn’t a common cold. |
I have .
I could say the same to you Keith.
It is a matter of perception.
It concerns me frankly.
Read exactly what I say then reflect. I deliberately highlight the significance of mental illness and it is why I detest to see it misused as a pejorative as O believe it is in this case .
This is not an isolated case and the term mental illness is grossly abused
I am very surprised at your standpoint on this as I am on other matters here . I feel rather uncomfortable right now and am doing my regular introspection analysis as to whether it is worth spending time on here . But this club is hard to let go | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:29 - Feb 3 with 847 views | Thornburyswan |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:16 - Feb 3 by onehunglow |
I have .
I could say the same to you Keith.
It is a matter of perception.
It concerns me frankly.
Read exactly what I say then reflect. I deliberately highlight the significance of mental illness and it is why I detest to see it misused as a pejorative as O believe it is in this case .
This is not an isolated case and the term mental illness is grossly abused
I am very surprised at your standpoint on this as I am on other matters here . I feel rather uncomfortable right now and am doing my regular introspection analysis as to whether it is worth spending time on here . But this club is hard to let go |
Have to disagree with you on this OHL - whilst I agree & have seen ‘mental illness’ used to exaggerate a difficult situation you need the full facts to make that call/judgement so unless you know Pato & his circumstances personally you are not in a position (as I am not either) to make that judgement.
Whether he suffers from a mental illness or not is a fact & not for us to opine on - fundamentally different to playing style, formations, players form/abilities etc - if his line manager, RM in this case, says he does that should be good enough for us.
RM has handled this situation well to date, ultimately the acid test will come over the next few weeks on & off the pitch. | | | |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:35 - Feb 3 with 835 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 15:49 - Feb 3 by STID2017 |
Excellent post.
None of us (bar those genuinely ITK ) know the truth yet some are quick to judge
Give the guy the benefit of the doubt |
In order for anyone to give him the benefit of the doubt, he would have to come out and say he hasn’t played because he is suffering from a mental illness.
Otherwise what are we giving the benefit of the doubt about? If he hasn’t told us he’s mentally ill seems strange to be assuming he is.
When I was moving jobs, and moving house at the same time I missed a few social events because my mind was too busy focussed on other things, didn’t feel I would enjoy or be good company when I was so preoccupied elsewhere with my thoughts.
Didn’t mean I was mentally ill. |  |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:40 - Feb 3 with 824 views | Thornburyswan |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:35 - Feb 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
In order for anyone to give him the benefit of the doubt, he would have to come out and say he hasn’t played because he is suffering from a mental illness.
Otherwise what are we giving the benefit of the doubt about? If he hasn’t told us he’s mentally ill seems strange to be assuming he is.
When I was moving jobs, and moving house at the same time I missed a few social events because my mind was too busy focussed on other things, didn’t feel I would enjoy or be good company when I was so preoccupied elsewhere with my thoughts.
Didn’t mean I was mentally ill. |
Nope - he does not have to come out & tell us that, he has to tell his employer & they can agree with him how wide that detail is shared or otherwise. Hence the comments made on several occasions now by RM.
The important thing is for him to be supported, welcome back into the squad when ready - that may have already happened going by yesterdays comments - & when RM believes he is ready show that to us on the pitch. | | | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:42 - Feb 3 with 817 views | onehunglow |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:29 - Feb 3 by Thornburyswan |
Have to disagree with you on this OHL - whilst I agree & have seen ‘mental illness’ used to exaggerate a difficult situation you need the full facts to make that call/judgement so unless you know Pato & his circumstances personally you are not in a position (as I am not either) to make that judgement.
Whether he suffers from a mental illness or not is a fact & not for us to opine on - fundamentally different to playing style, formations, players form/abilities etc - if his line manager, RM in this case, says he does that should be good enough for us.
RM has handled this situation well to date, ultimately the acid test will come over the next few weeks on & off the pitch. |
That s fine .
It’s a fair observation and you articulate it well.
However, none of us knows exactly how any individual feels and we go on what we see and utilising life lesson.
People have completely overloooked my mail thrust which is …
Mental illness is not being sad .
Paterson appears to be miffed over a contract . That in itself hardly seems conducive to mental illness .
If he is mentally ill then he needs professional treatment and thus be in no position or condition to speak with his agent about a transfer to anywhere . Is he getting it ?
I ll leave it there as I am very uneasy about what is going on and some comments on here | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:46 - Feb 3 with 813 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:40 - Feb 3 by Thornburyswan |
Nope - he does not have to come out & tell us that, he has to tell his employer & they can agree with him how wide that detail is shared or otherwise. Hence the comments made on several occasions now by RM.
The important thing is for him to be supported, welcome back into the squad when ready - that may have already happened going by yesterdays comments - & when RM believes he is ready show that to us on the pitch. |
If WE are to give him the benefit of the doubt then it needs to be conveyed to us that he is mentally ill. The only people able to give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment is anyone he has told - if we are assuming he is mentally ill of course, which we really shouldn’t.
I haven’t seen that confirmed anywhere so I’m not going to assume he’s mentally ill.
You can’t give someone the benefit of the doubt on something that hasn’t been confirmed.
Otherwise that’s just speculating someone is mentally ill as opposed to not feeling in the right frame of mind to perform due to a contractual issue.
They aren’t the same thing. Not even remotely similar. | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:25 - Feb 3 with 762 views | Whiterockin |
I just wonder if it is ethically correct for an employer to comment on an employees mental state. |  | | |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:27 - Feb 3 with 757 views | KeithHaynes |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:25 - Feb 3 by Whiterockin |
I just wonder if it is ethically correct for an employer to comment on an employees mental state. |
With permission. If it opens up a discussion maybe some who question what mental health is could learn ? |  |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:30 - Feb 3 with 746 views | Flashberryjack |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:25 - Feb 3 by Whiterockin |
I just wonder if it is ethically correct for an employer to comment on an employees mental state. |
Is "not in the frame of mind" considered to be suffering from mental health, I'm not judging, just asking. |  |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:32 - Feb 3 with 742 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:25 - Feb 3 by Whiterockin |
I just wonder if it is ethically correct for an employer to comment on an employees mental state. |
Not being in the right mental frame of mind to play is an age old sound bite used in these situations.
A mental illness that starts at the start of the transfer window and ends when it closes is not a mental illness.
It’s a mental distraction caused by a contract dispute. I think that’s pretty obvious. | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:33 - Feb 3 with 739 views | Whiterockin |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:27 - Feb 3 by KeithHaynes |
With permission. If it opens up a discussion maybe some who question what mental health is could learn ? |
True. But should we be asking the finer details or taking it as face value, without prying. | | | |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:37 - Feb 3 with 733 views | KeithHaynes |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 18:33 - Feb 3 by Whiterockin |
True. But should we be asking the finer details or taking it as face value, without prying. |
That will always be the issue. | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 19:50 - Feb 3 with 663 views | Chief |
I understand Martin trying to show Paterson in a good light - he wants his best player back. But the mental health stuff and now trying to claim it wasn't over money! It's getting silly.
https://planetswans.co.uk/2022 |  |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 23:52 - Feb 3 with 574 views | STID2017 |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 17:29 - Feb 3 by Thornburyswan |
Have to disagree with you on this OHL - whilst I agree & have seen ‘mental illness’ used to exaggerate a difficult situation you need the full facts to make that call/judgement so unless you know Pato & his circumstances personally you are not in a position (as I am not either) to make that judgement.
Whether he suffers from a mental illness or not is a fact & not for us to opine on - fundamentally different to playing style, formations, players form/abilities etc - if his line manager, RM in this case, says he does that should be good enough for us.
RM has handled this situation well to date, ultimately the acid test will come over the next few weeks on & off the pitch. |
Excellent post
Why do people like Perch think they have any right to judge anyone's mental state.
The fact that he is ( compared to us ) extremely well paid has nothing at all to do with his mental state.
Sorry but the guy ( Perch) is very judgemental and insidious person | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 23:54 - Feb 3 with 573 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 23:52 - Feb 3 by STID2017 |
Excellent post
Why do people like Perch think they have any right to judge anyone's mental state.
The fact that he is ( compared to us ) extremely well paid has nothing at all to do with his mental state.
Sorry but the guy ( Perch) is very judgemental and insidious person |
He wasn’t. He was saying there is no evidence of mental illness other than a suggestion he is distracted due to a financial dispute with the club.
OHL said if he is mentally ill then he should be getting the necessary help from professionals and not entertaining moving to a new club. Hard to argue with.
Everything here points to him having his head turned and losing focus and not feeling in the right frame of mind to play. Simple as that.
Until we know otherwise for sure we can’t be pushing mental illness on someone, despite how well intentioned it is. | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:07 - Feb 4 with 563 views | STID2017 |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 23:54 - Feb 3 by Dr_Parnassus |
He wasn’t. He was saying there is no evidence of mental illness other than a suggestion he is distracted due to a financial dispute with the club.
OHL said if he is mentally ill then he should be getting the necessary help from professionals and not entertaining moving to a new club. Hard to argue with.
Everything here points to him having his head turned and losing focus and not feeling in the right frame of mind to play. Simple as that.
Until we know otherwise for sure we can’t be pushing mental illness on someone, despite how well intentioned it is. |
I agree with much of what you say there, however it is the underlying accusation by Perch /OHL that he was not suffering from any mental conditions that I take issue with.
As you say none of us know what has happened.
As regards not moving to QPR, I feel many of us ( myself
included) have felt the best way to deal with a situation that is causing us to be ill is to move away from that situation.
Whether that be a new job ( as in my case ) or a potential new club ( as in Pato's case ) the two are not incompatible
Also he could defend his comments / argue his own case, but I believe he has put me on ignore, so in doing so has lost the entitlement to do so [Post edited 4 Feb 2022 0:11]
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:14 - Feb 4 with 559 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:07 - Feb 4 by STID2017 |
I agree with much of what you say there, however it is the underlying accusation by Perch /OHL that he was not suffering from any mental conditions that I take issue with.
As you say none of us know what has happened.
As regards not moving to QPR, I feel many of us ( myself
included) have felt the best way to deal with a situation that is causing us to be ill is to move away from that situation.
Whether that be a new job ( as in my case ) or a potential new club ( as in Pato's case ) the two are not incompatible
Also he could defend his comments / argue his own case, but I believe he has put me on ignore, so in doing so has lost the entitlement to do so [Post edited 4 Feb 2022 0:11]
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But worry/annoyance/frustration isn’t mental illness, they are just normal emotions. If it would be solved my moving clubs that just means he doesn’t like it here as opposed to suffering mental illness. Mental illness isn’t club related, it’s a diagnosable condition.
I think it’s being conflated with not being happy with a situation. | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:27 - Feb 4 with 552 views | STID2017 |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:14 - Feb 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
But worry/annoyance/frustration isn’t mental illness, they are just normal emotions. If it would be solved my moving clubs that just means he doesn’t like it here as opposed to suffering mental illness. Mental illness isn’t club related, it’s a diagnosable condition.
I think it’s being conflated with not being happy with a situation. |
You may be right ?
None of us know what he was thinking or feeling?
Bearing in mind he has probably ( given his injury record ) a few short years ar most in the game, he is trying to secure a financial income for himself ( and his family assuming he has one) that will give him financial security for many years to come.
If he makes the wrong decision then he would possibbly regret that for the rest of his life.
The pressure on professionals should not be underestimated. | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:33 - Feb 4 with 548 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:27 - Feb 4 by STID2017 |
You may be right ?
None of us know what he was thinking or feeling?
Bearing in mind he has probably ( given his injury record ) a few short years ar most in the game, he is trying to secure a financial income for himself ( and his family assuming he has one) that will give him financial security for many years to come.
If he makes the wrong decision then he would possibbly regret that for the rest of his life.
The pressure on professionals should not be underestimated. |
Agreed that’s why we can’t assume mental illness on someone. That needs categorical confirmation before that is even commented on, it appears a clumsy choice of words from Martin which has caused some confusion.
I don’t doubt he wants a pay rise and don’t doubt he may not be happy at a club down the bottom on not a great deal of money. I also don’t doubt that in his position he has to make big decisions… but again being unhappy, frustrated, feeling under pressure with a situation isn’t mental illness.
It will become a mental illness issue for us when he confirms that is what he has been diagnosed with. Until then, the only thing we really know is that he is in a contract dispute and hasn’t felt in the right frame of mind to play, which many players tend to mirror when in a position where they are wanting a transfer or a pay rise.
You have to be mentally 100% focussed to play high intensity professional sport. These things cause a lack of focus and make you feel not right mentally to give that, but that doesn’t mean you are mentally ill, it means you have a lot to deal with and struggling with focus and distraction. [Post edited 4 Feb 2022 0:37]
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:38 - Feb 4 with 542 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Mindfulness is the correct term and something promoted in all corporate and I would guess sporting industries.
It means allowing yourself to be in the correct state of mind to perform. | |
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| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:51 - Feb 4 with 533 views | STID2017 |
| Jamie Paterson explored and his immediate future at Swansea City on 00:33 - Feb 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
Agreed that’s why we can’t assume mental illness on someone. That needs categorical confirmation before that is even commented on, it appears a clumsy choice of words from Martin which has caused some confusion.
I don’t doubt he wants a pay rise and don’t doubt he may not be happy at a club down the bottom on not a great deal of money. I also don’t doubt that in his position he has to make big decisions… but again being unhappy, frustrated, feeling under pressure with a situation isn’t mental illness.
It will become a mental illness issue for us when he confirms that is what he has been diagnosed with. Until then, the only thing we really know is that he is in a contract dispute and hasn’t felt in the right frame of mind to play, which many players tend to mirror when in a position where they are wanting a transfer or a pay rise.
You have to be mentally 100% focussed to play high intensity professional sport. These things cause a lack of focus and make you feel not right mentally to give that, but that doesn’t mean you are mentally ill, it means you have a lot to deal with and struggling with focus and distraction. [Post edited 4 Feb 2022 0:37]
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I feel you have stated your case well
Ultimately I think the club should not have discussed his case publicly whether one believes he has / may have / does not have a mental illness.
I appreciate the press and us as fans want to know and feel we have a right to know everything that is going on in players, managers, etc, lives, but maybe in this instance less would have been more and the club should have dealt with the matter in the strictest confidence.
That way, whilst there would have been speculation ( as there is when other players don't play for reasons that are not known to us ), there would have been no discussion on his mental state on this and other social platforms | |
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