| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? 12:15 - Feb 10 with 1955 views | SwansIndependent |
Learning is an experience, click above.
Others below.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 12:58 - Feb 10 with 1900 views | vetchonian |
A good article yet it raises more questions than answers
This experential learning doesnt seem to apply to Martin as he doesnt seem to be learning from his mistakes.
The training method is also not working as our performances do not appear to be improving and also seem to be causing issues with players?
Asking a player who has been played out of position or in a position where his weakness are exposed too to understand how he was at fault for the error is crazy...Keith the more of this you post just exposes the issues with Martin......you are right I have no expereince of managing a football team yet I do have of managing people and processes and "bollicking" someone you as a manager have put in a position where the potential for error is high due to you is not good!
Is this why Whittaker apparantly had an attitude when his manager critqued his performance when he was played out of his natural position?
Maybe why Rhys Williams struggled too especially after coming form traiing sessions with Klopp
Much has been written of our failure to convert form set pieces why isnt there some focus on this? Or are our training sessions now just "self awareness" sessions
It seems incredible how Ogetaba arrives here with a "niggle" which gets exaggerated into an injury in his first training session....what do our medical staff do? Surely this should have been picked up on his medical and dont palyer go through some sort of conditon assessment when they arrive?
Regarding his square pegs.....with Bennet and Naghton out Manning surely has to feature in a back 3 of Cabango Downs and MAnnning....we dont have the personnel to play a back 4 currently as neither Downs or Manning are true CBs in a flat 4 and I doubt if Burns is ready to be thrown into the fray...
And then finally a vieled or not so vield attack to some of us posters on here
"
But hang on ! None of us are players, and none of us are managers at this level, we just say what we see, and use our experience to analyse what could be. That’s what we all do, even those who don’t see that clearly, it’s all about an opinion. Even though there are always those whose opinion is clouded by their own bias. That’s certain. The rest of us continue to hope and continue to watch. That’s what we do, we all love our teams for the same reasons, we want them to succeed. There’s no value in hoping the swans lose for short term gain in sacking a manager and staff who are clearly here for the long haul. It makes the whole seasons plan pointless as we have said before.
Russell Martin still has the supoort of the majority, and still has a clear vision on how he wants to get this Swansea City side back functioning in the way he wants. And all we can do, despite our discussions is hope he gets it right." | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 13:29 - Feb 10 with 1859 views | 3swan |
Good article Keith. I'll use a phrase that I've used countless times this season. The players are playing robotic football and not reactive. With players playing out of their natural position and others not reading the game to create options we just invite pressure onto players. It only needs a small drop in performance to result in what we are seeing. I see very few players playing relaxed football it all seems tense and rushed. At Stoke especially we saw a total lack of a team ethic but a number of individuals. If a foundation was being set for next season then some of the ups and downs could be accepted. But the big but for me is we are seeing very little to think that way. Without a large overhaul in the summer, which I don't think finance will allow, we are looking at much the same next season unless there is more playing to players strengths. | | | |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 13:37 - Feb 10 with 1845 views | vetchonian |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 13:29 - Feb 10 by 3swan |
Good article Keith. I'll use a phrase that I've used countless times this season. The players are playing robotic football and not reactive. With players playing out of their natural position and others not reading the game to create options we just invite pressure onto players. It only needs a small drop in performance to result in what we are seeing. I see very few players playing relaxed football it all seems tense and rushed. At Stoke especially we saw a total lack of a team ethic but a number of individuals. If a foundation was being set for next season then some of the ups and downs could be accepted. But the big but for me is we are seeing very little to think that way. Without a large overhaul in the summer, which I don't think finance will allow, we are looking at much the same next season unless there is more playing to players strengths. |
The robotic football is down to the coaching surely? | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 13:50 - Feb 10 with 1835 views | 3swan |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 13:37 - Feb 10 by vetchonian |
The robotic football is down to the coaching surely? |
Imo Yes. If it doesn't come naturally for a player, he will always take longer to think, so invite pressure. A manager/coach should recognise that and either change the tactic or encourage other players to give extra support | | | |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 15:19 - Feb 10 with 1772 views | KeithHaynes |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 12:58 - Feb 10 by vetchonian |
A good article yet it raises more questions than answers
This experential learning doesnt seem to apply to Martin as he doesnt seem to be learning from his mistakes.
The training method is also not working as our performances do not appear to be improving and also seem to be causing issues with players?
Asking a player who has been played out of position or in a position where his weakness are exposed too to understand how he was at fault for the error is crazy...Keith the more of this you post just exposes the issues with Martin......you are right I have no expereince of managing a football team yet I do have of managing people and processes and "bollicking" someone you as a manager have put in a position where the potential for error is high due to you is not good!
Is this why Whittaker apparantly had an attitude when his manager critqued his performance when he was played out of his natural position?
Maybe why Rhys Williams struggled too especially after coming form traiing sessions with Klopp
Much has been written of our failure to convert form set pieces why isnt there some focus on this? Or are our training sessions now just "self awareness" sessions
It seems incredible how Ogetaba arrives here with a "niggle" which gets exaggerated into an injury in his first training session....what do our medical staff do? Surely this should have been picked up on his medical and dont palyer go through some sort of conditon assessment when they arrive?
Regarding his square pegs.....with Bennet and Naghton out Manning surely has to feature in a back 3 of Cabango Downs and MAnnning....we dont have the personnel to play a back 4 currently as neither Downs or Manning are true CBs in a flat 4 and I doubt if Burns is ready to be thrown into the fray...
And then finally a vieled or not so vield attack to some of us posters on here
"
But hang on ! None of us are players, and none of us are managers at this level, we just say what we see, and use our experience to analyse what could be. That’s what we all do, even those who don’t see that clearly, it’s all about an opinion. Even though there are always those whose opinion is clouded by their own bias. That’s certain. The rest of us continue to hope and continue to watch. That’s what we do, we all love our teams for the same reasons, we want them to succeed. There’s no value in hoping the swans lose for short term gain in sacking a manager and staff who are clearly here for the long haul. It makes the whole seasons plan pointless as we have said before.
Russell Martin still has the supoort of the majority, and still has a clear vision on how he wants to get this Swansea City side back functioning in the way he wants. And all we can do, despite our discussions is hope he gets it right." |
May be we are on that experiential learning cycle 😉
I’m a great advocate of it as well, it does prompt people to think, and the fact you have answered tells me you read the article carefully. Thanks for that.
All I was intending with this was to ask questions, not so much about who thinks what about the swans but of Russell Martin, the final point wasn’t aimed at anyone, but I can’t do anything about anyone who thinks it is ðŸ‘
I’ve always welcomed views on any subject on here, sometimes between just three of us it’s hard to keep up with, especially on the non football forum. But as an example your views regardless of mine have always been apt and succinct. I wouldn’t dig anyone out unless they are aiming very personal things at individuals. From the start the intention was to have a forum that was better than before, without threats, abuse and hatred. it sometimes falters but very rarely.
What I’m saying is we all have our views, and those that know me know I don’t do veiled or thinly veiled, I just enjoy running the website, others outside of here can do and say what they like. On here all opinions are welcome, but the reason why numerous others can’t post on here is that they don’t have the ability to comprehend that 👠So we leave them to their echo chambers elsewhere, hating, dominating and bullying.
I don’t half go on eh ?
Nobody’s views are wrong on this subject, just the ways they are put over causes problems, and you are definitely not in that bracket. And those posters are no longer on here ðŸ‘
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 15:23 - Feb 10 with 1762 views | KeithHaynes |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 13:29 - Feb 10 by 3swan |
Good article Keith. I'll use a phrase that I've used countless times this season. The players are playing robotic football and not reactive. With players playing out of their natural position and others not reading the game to create options we just invite pressure onto players. It only needs a small drop in performance to result in what we are seeing. I see very few players playing relaxed football it all seems tense and rushed. At Stoke especially we saw a total lack of a team ethic but a number of individuals. If a foundation was being set for next season then some of the ups and downs could be accepted. But the big but for me is we are seeing very little to think that way. Without a large overhaul in the summer, which I don't think finance will allow, we are looking at much the same next season unless there is more playing to players strengths. |
I do tend to agree Clive, but then the question has to be are we happy with our lot being in the championship ? Or are we wishing for things that just won’t happen ? For me being in this league isn’t the end of the world, it’s competitive, exciting to watch at times and as long as a club is in this league it has some hope of betterment.
Maybe that’s our lot ? | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 15:55 - Feb 10 with 1730 views | 3swan |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 15:23 - Feb 10 by KeithHaynes |
I do tend to agree Clive, but then the question has to be are we happy with our lot being in the championship ? Or are we wishing for things that just won’t happen ? For me being in this league isn’t the end of the world, it’s competitive, exciting to watch at times and as long as a club is in this league it has some hope of betterment.
Maybe that’s our lot ? |
I agree with your thoughts about this could be it.
I'll give 2 thoughts
I want our club to be in with the best, so that would mean promotion.
The other side of me looks at us as our full history. 9 years in the top division so it's the exception not the rule. I've been lucky enough to be part of our rise to glory on both occasions so am happy to stay in this divisions enjoyable football with cup runs thrown in.
In taking this into account, we will never be a semi permanent team In the Premier. There are many historically bigger clubs that are also looking to come good.
I suppose I don't know the answer, as success will also bring the downside of struggles and then relegation. Maybe it is the way and being a West Brom or Norwich. Whatever it is I naively want to see club and fans being as close as one together. | | | |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:32 - Feb 10 with 1683 views | onehunglow |
Our expectations were lowered by the owners and are now by Martin.
It is brilliant marketing and mind conditioning.
Expect the worst and anything better will be seen as a victory.
Its like price conditioning in sales. Prime the punter to expect a farkoff you must be joking price then to ameliorate matters with a sweetening lower price.
Except we haven't had the lower price yet. | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:39 - Feb 10 with 1684 views | vetchonian |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 15:19 - Feb 10 by KeithHaynes |
May be we are on that experiential learning cycle 😉
I’m a great advocate of it as well, it does prompt people to think, and the fact you have answered tells me you read the article carefully. Thanks for that.
All I was intending with this was to ask questions, not so much about who thinks what about the swans but of Russell Martin, the final point wasn’t aimed at anyone, but I can’t do anything about anyone who thinks it is ðŸ‘
I’ve always welcomed views on any subject on here, sometimes between just three of us it’s hard to keep up with, especially on the non football forum. But as an example your views regardless of mine have always been apt and succinct. I wouldn’t dig anyone out unless they are aiming very personal things at individuals. From the start the intention was to have a forum that was better than before, without threats, abuse and hatred. it sometimes falters but very rarely.
What I’m saying is we all have our views, and those that know me know I don’t do veiled or thinly veiled, I just enjoy running the website, others outside of here can do and say what they like. On here all opinions are welcome, but the reason why numerous others can’t post on here is that they don’t have the ability to comprehend that 👠So we leave them to their echo chambers elsewhere, hating, dominating and bullying.
I don’t half go on eh ?
Nobody’s views are wrong on this subject, just the ways they are put over causes problems, and you are definitely not in that bracket. And those posters are no longer on here ðŸ‘
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Sometimes so do I Keith
and thank you for that reply | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:48 - Feb 10 with 1674 views | vetchonian |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 15:23 - Feb 10 by KeithHaynes |
I do tend to agree Clive, but then the question has to be are we happy with our lot being in the championship ? Or are we wishing for things that just won’t happen ? For me being in this league isn’t the end of the world, it’s competitive, exciting to watch at times and as long as a club is in this league it has some hope of betterment.
Maybe that’s our lot ? |
I would agree with this sentiment...twnty years ago I would have been happy for us to be competing in the Championship...top 10 ish maybe the occasional flirtation with promotion..whilst watching good entertaining football...
Ideally having good cup runs and one day getting to an FA cup final and maybe getting triangular flags.
Again more questions as maybe the majority of us "die hard " fans would be happy with that scenario but would the ownership?
Given that the rewards lie in the PL?
Will the floating fans be happy...it will be interesting to see what are the season ticket renewals ..and that will impact on next seasons budget and what team we can assemble.
I dont think fans will put up with more seasons like this one..but without success and those doesnt necessarilhy mean promotion just winning a good cup runs the crowds will dissapear...and these days sport is all about the coin. | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:56 - Feb 10 with 1654 views | onehunglow |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:39 - Feb 10 by vetchonian |
Sometimes so do I Keith
and thank you for that reply |
It IS better Keith but when we do have interlopers they come in a flood,as if the tide has washed them up on the Indie Shoreline .
Personally, I don’t share your rather sanguine view on matters
The wonders of the discourse | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 17:06 - Feb 10 with 1660 views | jojaca |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:48 - Feb 10 by vetchonian |
I would agree with this sentiment...twnty years ago I would have been happy for us to be competing in the Championship...top 10 ish maybe the occasional flirtation with promotion..whilst watching good entertaining football...
Ideally having good cup runs and one day getting to an FA cup final and maybe getting triangular flags.
Again more questions as maybe the majority of us "die hard " fans would be happy with that scenario but would the ownership?
Given that the rewards lie in the PL?
Will the floating fans be happy...it will be interesting to see what are the season ticket renewals ..and that will impact on next seasons budget and what team we can assemble.
I dont think fans will put up with more seasons like this one..but without success and those doesnt necessarilhy mean promotion just winning a good cup runs the crowds will dissapear...and these days sport is all about the coin. |
I don't care what division we are in, I want to be entertained and watch my team attempt to actually score goals. I actually dread match day now because I have to watch this keep ball football with the poorest of end products. |  |
| Even when you know, you never know? |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:11 - Feb 11 with 1538 views | STID2017 |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 17:06 - Feb 10 by jojaca |
I don't care what division we are in, I want to be entertained and watch my team attempt to actually score goals. I actually dread match day now because I have to watch this keep ball football with the poorest of end products. |
As fans and as a club we have to aspire to play at the best level possible.
As you say though, it has to be entertaining as well.
A third season on the trot of dire football has been tolerated so far in the belief that we are building towards something.
However we need to be seeing positive results and entertaining football and proof that the cornerstones of success are being laid.
Hopefully we will reboot on Sunday |  |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 19:38 - Feb 11 with 1492 views | KeithHaynes |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:11 - Feb 11 by STID2017 |
As fans and as a club we have to aspire to play at the best level possible.
As you say though, it has to be entertaining as well.
A third season on the trot of dire football has been tolerated so far in the belief that we are building towards something.
However we need to be seeing positive results and entertaining football and proof that the cornerstones of success are being laid.
Hopefully we will reboot on Sunday |
I genuinely think we have what we have G.
Our lot is the championship, and as you know that’s something we would have certainly agreed to in 2002. | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 19:49 - Feb 11 with 1466 views | onehunglow |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 19:38 - Feb 11 by KeithHaynes |
I genuinely think we have what we have G.
Our lot is the championship, and as you know that’s something we would have certainly agreed to in 2002. |
"G"
Now I'm worried.
Is he is the same lodge as you Guv. ?
Brothers together. | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 22:57 - Feb 11 with 1432 views | STID2017 |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 19:38 - Feb 11 by KeithHaynes |
I genuinely think we have what we have G.
Our lot is the championship, and as you know that’s something we would have certainly agreed to in 2002. |
True. I remember the delight under Tosh getting promoted back into the 2nd Division after 14 years. Few of us would truly have believed Tosh's speech about not wanting to stop there.
Of course after surviving against Hull, even the promotion the following season and getting to the 3rd tier seemed a great achievement.
We certainly need a big improvement to be true contenders for promotion. | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:05 - Feb 11 with 1426 views | STID2017 |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 15:55 - Feb 10 by 3swan |
I agree with your thoughts about this could be it.
I'll give 2 thoughts
I want our club to be in with the best, so that would mean promotion.
The other side of me looks at us as our full history. 9 years in the top division so it's the exception not the rule. I've been lucky enough to be part of our rise to glory on both occasions so am happy to stay in this divisions enjoyable football with cup runs thrown in.
In taking this into account, we will never be a semi permanent team In the Premier. There are many historically bigger clubs that are also looking to come good.
I suppose I don't know the answer, as success will also bring the downside of struggles and then relegation. Maybe it is the way and being a West Brom or Norwich. Whatever it is I naively want to see club and fans being as close as one together. |
Great post and yes in an ideal world I want to see our club competing with the best in the land again.
I would rather see us take a couple of seasons, playing good football again ( consistently rather than the hit and miss of this season ) and build a team truly capable of winning promotion.
If it happens, fantastic. If it doesn't but we are entertained trying, well that isn't so bad [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 23:06]
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:12 - Feb 11 with 1415 views | magicdaps10 |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 19:38 - Feb 11 by KeithHaynes |
I genuinely think we have what we have G.
Our lot is the championship, and as you know that’s something we would have certainly agreed to in 2002. |
Oh god yes, I am happy as Larry being in the champ, even down the lower half and 15 points off the relegation zone.
Always no e to be higher up and as great the Premier league was, I knew from day one that it was a short shelf life. The sense of entitlement and understanding of what we are as a club is saddening especially when some of the posters were around in the dark days.
For many a year we would have given the spot we are in today. |  |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:17 - Feb 11 with 1411 views | max936 |
He's looking a tad strained in that photo  |  | | |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:17 - Feb 11 with 1406 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:12 - Feb 11 by magicdaps10 |
Oh god yes, I am happy as Larry being in the champ, even down the lower half and 15 points off the relegation zone.
Always no e to be higher up and as great the Premier league was, I knew from day one that it was a short shelf life. The sense of entitlement and understanding of what we are as a club is saddening especially when some of the posters were around in the dark days.
For many a year we would have given the spot we are in today. |
Why were you moaning about not getting promotion last year then? |  |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:23 - Feb 11 with 1403 views | max936 |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 16:11 - Feb 11 by STID2017 |
As fans and as a club we have to aspire to play at the best level possible.
As you say though, it has to be entertaining as well.
A third season on the trot of dire football has been tolerated so far in the belief that we are building towards something.
However we need to be seeing positive results and entertaining football and proof that the cornerstones of success are being laid.
Hopefully we will reboot on Sunday |
Be very difficult to actually move forward/improve as a team, when we are relying on loan players, who will mostly if not all be gone at the end of each season, there's very little in the squads progression when this is happening, in my opinion anyway. [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 23:25]
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:30 - Feb 11 with 1394 views | magicdaps10 |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:23 - Feb 11 by max936 |
Be very difficult to actually move forward/improve as a team, when we are relying on loan players, who will mostly if not all be gone at the end of each season, there's very little in the squads progression when this is happening, in my opinion anyway. [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 23:25]
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We only have 3 loan players at present, one could potentially be with us come next season.
We have relied on loans more in previous seasons but I think the club have addressed this is not the way going forward and not a solid foundation going forward.
My view is very similar although the loan market is something that can be benefited from if used wisely but agree that it shouldn't be relied on heavily.
I think we should be looking at adding one or 2 free agents, players who are at a young age, players like Matt O'Riley for an example, he was a free agent for a few months and many a club missed out for whatever reason. For us to do this then the recruitment team need to be on the money 😬 | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:42 - Feb 11 with 1384 views | STID2017 |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:23 - Feb 11 by max936 |
Be very difficult to actually move forward/improve as a team, when we are relying on loan players, who will mostly if not all be gone at the end of each season, there's very little in the squads progression when this is happening, in my opinion anyway. [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 23:25]
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Agree that producing our own players together with shrewd signings is the way to go.
Loans should ideally be used in emergencies or where we are looking to sign them permanently at the end of the loan period. | |
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 00:00 - Feb 12 with 1380 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 23:30 - Feb 11 by magicdaps10 |
We only have 3 loan players at present, one could potentially be with us come next season.
We have relied on loans more in previous seasons but I think the club have addressed this is not the way going forward and not a solid foundation going forward.
My view is very similar although the loan market is something that can be benefited from if used wisely but agree that it shouldn't be relied on heavily.
I think we should be looking at adding one or 2 free agents, players who are at a young age, players like Matt O'Riley for an example, he was a free agent for a few months and many a club missed out for whatever reason. For us to do this then the recruitment team need to be on the money 😬 |
Hmmm not really. It’s essentially 3 reliant loans this season vs 3 reliant loans last season once it’s broken down.
We have had 5 loans in total this season, largely due to being given almost £6m to spend on transfers. 3 of which we used regularly (Laird, Christie and Wolf).
That may stretch to 4 should we start using Burns too, which I suspect we will.
Last season we loaned:-
Gibbs White (4 starts) - but would have started more
Palmer (2 starts)
Gyokeres (1 start)
Morris (1 start - and lasted 20 mins)
Arriola (zero starts)
8 league starts between all 5 loan players.
We didn’t rely on any of them.
The loans we relied on last season were Woodman, Guehi and Hourihane/MGW
This season it’s Christie/Laird and Wolf.
It’s not much of a difference, yet we spent £5.5m on transfer fees too this season. The difference simply comes down to us signing a keeper this season as opposed to loaning one. That’s it. [Post edited 12 Feb 2022 0:03]
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| Practice makes perfect ? But are Swansea City practising imperfectly ? on 10:52 - Feb 12 with 1328 views | onehunglow |
If we were moving on and planning we wouldnt have so many on loans;players coming in then leaving after a few months.
Our core should be solid
It isnt. | |
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