| And they ask why Wales votes labour 10:31 - Oct 25 with 6988 views | CountyJim |
Answers the question really doesn't it what a shower of s hit this Tory government is |  | | |  |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:22 - Oct 27 with 903 views | felixstowe_jack |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 17:04 - Oct 27 by trampie |
Disagree sorry butt, trickle down doesn't work as soon as the chancellor announced huge tax giveaways to the rich I was straight on here before the press fully understood, before the markets had totally crashed saying I remember Thatcher and Regan, I seen documentaries, I read about experts reports into trickle down and it doesn't work, of course as we know it did all kicked off, the markets crashed. People know it didn't work, I knew I didn't work but the Prime Minister and Chancellor didn't know or perhaps they did and just wanted to give even more money to their already rich friends and didn't care.
On a practical level, rich people might buy Swiss watches, designer gold jewelry, Italian fast cars but not cars from Dagenham or pies from the local chippy, any boost is small and in areas of luxury goods it's a failed experiment. |
Neither does imposing huge tax burdens on people work either. If you have no money left after basics, to spent on other things, then jobs are lots and more income tax, NI and Vat are raised while benefits payments increase.
The trick is to slowly decrease the tax burden, get people into work, reduce the cost of benefits then everyone is better off. |  |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:09 - Oct 27 with 869 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:22 - Oct 27 by felixstowe_jack |
Neither does imposing huge tax burdens on people work either. If you have no money left after basics, to spent on other things, then jobs are lots and more income tax, NI and Vat are raised while benefits payments increase.
The trick is to slowly decrease the tax burden, get people into work, reduce the cost of benefits then everyone is better off. |
The trick is to tax those that can afford to carry the burden.
Don't let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, apparently we have more food banks than McDonald's burger joints, we are going backwards economically as a society. |  |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 20:00 - Oct 27 with 841 views | Catullus |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 16:30 - Oct 27 by onehunglow |
In that case,why do not all quit watching football especially Premier League.
Salaries of 2 miliion PER MONTH are obscene and blow away any opposition for obscenity in salaries.
Footballers are often ill-educated bucks barely able to string a sentence together but have egos that see them end in Court often enough. |
Several times I had disagreements for saying I was glad we'd been relegated!
Championship players usually do not get as much in a year as some EPL players get in a week. There is an unfair disparity right there, never mind the disparity between 2nd tier footballers and other working people.
As a world, we have gotten our priorities completely ass backwards. I thought Covid had taught us a few lessons like how important supermarket workers were, how people who for so long were considered to be "menial workers" were actually the rocks on which our world was built and without them the world would collapse.
How quickly we forgot. | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 21:20 - Oct 27 with 811 views | majorraglan |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:22 - Oct 27 by felixstowe_jack |
Neither does imposing huge tax burdens on people work either. If you have no money left after basics, to spent on other things, then jobs are lots and more income tax, NI and Vat are raised while benefits payments increase.
The trick is to slowly decrease the tax burden, get people into work, reduce the cost of benefits then everyone is better off. |
Not arguing with you. Successive governments have, whether by stealth tax, removal of allowances / entitlements or direct taxation imposed significant tax increases. The bulk of the rises has heavily impacted on middle income families.
We have to have a tax system which is fair to all. Truss’s cut to millionaires was presented as trickle down economics, but it’s been trashed as a concept by loads of economists and George Bush described it as “voodoo economics.” Giving the millionaires extra cash whilst working people are having to turn to food banks is crackers. The tax burden on the lowest paid needs to be reduced to make work worthwhile, people on benefits who can work but choose not to should be made to work for the dole, if they refuse to work they don’t get benefits, training opportunities need to be provided to help the unemployed up-skill to get jobs. People who can’t work must be supported.
One thing that needs addressing is the business of companies evading taxes by channeling their cash through tax havens etc and the wealthy using tax avoidance tricks.
I’m all for encouraging investment, giving tax breaks to companies who’re investing in the uk and their workforce long term etc etc. If everybody paid their way we’d all have a little less to pay. | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 21:31 - Oct 27 with 797 views | Catullus |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 21:20 - Oct 27 by majorraglan |
Not arguing with you. Successive governments have, whether by stealth tax, removal of allowances / entitlements or direct taxation imposed significant tax increases. The bulk of the rises has heavily impacted on middle income families.
We have to have a tax system which is fair to all. Truss’s cut to millionaires was presented as trickle down economics, but it’s been trashed as a concept by loads of economists and George Bush described it as “voodoo economics.” Giving the millionaires extra cash whilst working people are having to turn to food banks is crackers. The tax burden on the lowest paid needs to be reduced to make work worthwhile, people on benefits who can work but choose not to should be made to work for the dole, if they refuse to work they don’t get benefits, training opportunities need to be provided to help the unemployed up-skill to get jobs. People who can’t work must be supported.
One thing that needs addressing is the business of companies evading taxes by channeling their cash through tax havens etc and the wealthy using tax avoidance tricks.
I’m all for encouraging investment, giving tax breaks to companies who’re investing in the uk and their workforce long term etc etc. If everybody paid their way we’d all have a little less to pay. |
I don't think tax cuts were ever the answer. To help the poorest raise the tax free allowance and increase tax rates by 1p.
Make working pay by increasing the amount of pay you can keep from your benefits on returning to work.
Bring back proper apprenticeships but make the pay better and have them paying into a pension straight away. then have pension managers better regulated because they take a lot of money out of pension pots, a lot more than I think is fair.
My son has 23k in a trust fund that runs til he's 21 and the fund manager takes a stupid amount of money every year, it's daylight robbery. | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 21:40 - Oct 27 with 776 views | majorraglan |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 21:31 - Oct 27 by Catullus |
I don't think tax cuts were ever the answer. To help the poorest raise the tax free allowance and increase tax rates by 1p.
Make working pay by increasing the amount of pay you can keep from your benefits on returning to work.
Bring back proper apprenticeships but make the pay better and have them paying into a pension straight away. then have pension managers better regulated because they take a lot of money out of pension pots, a lot more than I think is fair.
My son has 23k in a trust fund that runs til he's 21 and the fund manager takes a stupid amount of money every year, it's daylight robbery. |
Good post, I agree with everything you’ve said. | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 10:08 - Oct 28 with 703 views | Gwyn737 |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 12:49 - Oct 27 by trampie |
When the word manifesto caught my eye before I read your sentence I was expecting to read 'did this post come straight out of the Communist party manifesto', I guessed that one wrong, lol. |
Here’s another communist sharing your views on public service vocation.
| | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 14:17 - Oct 28 with 661 views | trampie |
I would be more inclined to say being a doctor is a calling rather than a nurse, it doesn't sit well with me somebody well paid that might strike for even more money when they serve the public in an already well paid role compared to the rest of society, it should be an honour for them to serve the public, they should see their job as an honour and a privilege, people did years ago but perhaps not the case now, I think the same about headteachers Gwyn  | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 17:26 - Oct 28 with 621 views | Gwyn737 |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 14:17 - Oct 28 by trampie |
I would be more inclined to say being a doctor is a calling rather than a nurse, it doesn't sit well with me somebody well paid that might strike for even more money when they serve the public in an already well paid role compared to the rest of society, it should be an honour for them to serve the public, they should see their job as an honour and a privilege, people did years ago but perhaps not the case now, I think the same about headteachers Gwyn |
It’s easy to treat public servants badly if you believe it should be a vocation.
The real issue with you wanting pay suppression is we can’t fill roles in those services as it is.
How would you improve recruitment and retention whilst cutting pay?
We’ve already got this awful scenario where NHS nurses are working side by side with agency staff earning much more.
As for headteachers, nobody seems to want the job atm. Can’t think why 😉 | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 17:37 - Oct 28 with 605 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 17:26 - Oct 28 by Gwyn737 |
It’s easy to treat public servants badly if you believe it should be a vocation.
The real issue with you wanting pay suppression is we can’t fill roles in those services as it is.
How would you improve recruitment and retention whilst cutting pay?
We’ve already got this awful scenario where NHS nurses are working side by side with agency staff earning much more.
As for headteachers, nobody seems to want the job atm. Can’t think why 😉 |
Headteachers and Doctors aren't treated badly that is the point. | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:10 - Oct 28 with 591 views | Gwyn737 |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 17:37 - Oct 28 by trampie |
Headteachers and Doctors aren't treated badly that is the point. |
That’s your opinion and that’s fine.
How do you sort out the recruitment issue while cutting pay? | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:18 - Oct 28 with 577 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:10 - Oct 28 by Gwyn737 |
That’s your opinion and that’s fine.
How do you sort out the recruitment issue while cutting pay? |
I would increase pay at the bottom levels and decrease pay at the upper levels. | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:22 - Oct 28 with 576 views | Gwyn737 |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:18 - Oct 28 by trampie |
I would increase pay at the bottom levels and decrease pay at the upper levels. |
And that would attract doctors and headteachers how? | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:49 - Oct 28 with 557 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:22 - Oct 28 by Gwyn737 |
And that would attract doctors and headteachers how? |
Headteachers should do their apprenticeships by teaching in the classroom first.
Doctors should either want to do the job or not.
The taxpayer can't pay everybody 100k plus as a starting salary for all Government paid jobs.
What would you do ?
[Post edited 28 Oct 2022 19:05]
| |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:55 - Oct 28 with 551 views | Scotia |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:49 - Oct 28 by trampie |
Headteachers should do their apprenticeships by teaching in the classroom first.
Doctors should either want to do the job or not.
The taxpayer can't pay everybody 100k plus as a starting salary for all Government paid jobs.
What would you do ?
[Post edited 28 Oct 2022 19:05]
|
Every single Doctor I know does the job because they want to. Its their vocation.
Pretty much every one of them are so phenomenally intelligent and capable they could do pretty much any job in the world and earn more money.
We should be throwing money at them. | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:02 - Oct 28 with 535 views | Gwyn737 |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:49 - Oct 28 by trampie |
Headteachers should do their apprenticeships by teaching in the classroom first.
Doctors should either want to do the job or not.
The taxpayer can't pay everybody 100k plus as a starting salary for all Government paid jobs.
What would you do ?
[Post edited 28 Oct 2022 19:05]
|
I don’t know enough about doctor’s pay scale so can’t comment.
I’ll make a generous estimate and say there are around 6000 headteachers on 100k+ in England. This is based on there being about 3600 secondary schools. There maybe a tiny number of primary heads who get that remuneration (I’ve never met or seen a job advert for one but they may well exist) and there will be special school heads too so I’d say 6000 is generous.
The fte teaching number is around 465,000. So in the workforce the % earning 100k would be 0.01%. That added to the fact that difference between an experienced teacher and a head starting in a small school is about £700 pa, there’s not a lot of room for redistribution.
What would I do? I’d make sure that alongside other measures the pay was enough to staff the education system. You can’t get away from that is you want state funded schooling.
Oh, and I’ve never met a head teacher who didn’t teach first. I’m sure they exist but it’s not common. [Post edited 28 Oct 2022 19:08]
| | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:03 - Oct 28 with 534 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:55 - Oct 28 by Scotia |
Every single Doctor I know does the job because they want to. Its their vocation.
Pretty much every one of them are so phenomenally intelligent and capable they could do pretty much any job in the world and earn more money.
We should be throwing money at them. |
If it's a vocation and for 'good' doctors I think they still see it as a vocation and if they are so intelligent then they should not want money thrown at them.
There is only so much money in a pot if one group has lots of money then another group is going to have less money. | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:07 - Oct 28 with 525 views | Togg |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 18:18 - Oct 28 by trampie |
I would increase pay at the bottom levels and decrease pay at the upper levels. |
You're taking away incentives for people to better themselves. Drs study for years have great responsibility, they have to deal with some low lifes along with the decent patients. New Doctors come out of medical school with huge debt which take years to pay back. £100 k a year is good money but not life changing. Take away the incentives take away the ability. They will soon be off to Australia, Canada, the US to give themselves and family a better lifestyle. | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:10 - Oct 28 with 522 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:02 - Oct 28 by Gwyn737 |
I don’t know enough about doctor’s pay scale so can’t comment.
I’ll make a generous estimate and say there are around 6000 headteachers on 100k+ in England. This is based on there being about 3600 secondary schools. There maybe a tiny number of primary heads who get that remuneration (I’ve never met or seen a job advert for one but they may well exist) and there will be special school heads too so I’d say 6000 is generous.
The fte teaching number is around 465,000. So in the workforce the % earning 100k would be 0.01%. That added to the fact that difference between an experienced teacher and a head starting in a small school is about £700 pa, there’s not a lot of room for redistribution.
What would I do? I’d make sure that alongside other measures the pay was enough to staff the education system. You can’t get away from that is you want state funded schooling.
Oh, and I’ve never met a head teacher who didn’t teach first. I’m sure they exist but it’s not common. [Post edited 28 Oct 2022 19:08]
|
You would make sure the pay is enough to staff the system ?
So does that mean you would pay teachers and headteachers more money ???
How much would you roughly pay teaching assistants, primary teachers, secondary teachers, headteachers ? | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:22 - Oct 28 with 510 views | Gwyn737 |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:10 - Oct 28 by trampie |
You would make sure the pay is enough to staff the system ?
So does that mean you would pay teachers and headteachers more money ???
How much would you roughly pay teaching assistants, primary teachers, secondary teachers, headteachers ? |
For teachers and headteachers I’d more or less back whatever the STRB recommend each year. They take into account all info (including recruitment and retention) and make a recommendation to government. They’re independent so government has to decide what to do with that figure.
Teacher assistants are worth their weight in gold and if I could I’d pay them that.
There is a 10% uplift on the way for them thank goodness, to try and stem the tide of them leaving for better paid jobs in hospitality or retail. | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:28 - Oct 28 with 501 views | Scotia |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:03 - Oct 28 by trampie |
If it's a vocation and for 'good' doctors I think they still see it as a vocation and if they are so intelligent then they should not want money thrown at them.
There is only so much money in a pot if one group has lots of money then another group is going to have less money. |
There is only so much money to go around but some people deserve it more than others.
Doctors deserve it. As do pretty much every high earner in the country. | | | |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:29 - Oct 28 with 500 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:07 - Oct 28 by Togg |
You're taking away incentives for people to better themselves. Drs study for years have great responsibility, they have to deal with some low lifes along with the decent patients. New Doctors come out of medical school with huge debt which take years to pay back. £100 k a year is good money but not life changing. Take away the incentives take away the ability. They will soon be off to Australia, Canada, the US to give themselves and family a better lifestyle. |
I seen world league tables the other night where UK doctors were only behind USA doctors for pay when cost of living was taken into account and another interesting table on a different site where it give the monetary worth of doctors around the world, I took it as how much they had in their personal bank accounts and yet again UK doctors were second in the World behind USA doctors.
Luxembourg or Monaco type places (that is off the top of my head now and not checked) offering higher doctor salaries doesn't mean Doctors financially better off because of the cost of living (houses prices, food, transport) also taxation needs to be considered.
From what I can Doctors over here get a very good deal. | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:40 - Oct 28 with 488 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:22 - Oct 28 by Gwyn737 |
For teachers and headteachers I’d more or less back whatever the STRB recommend each year. They take into account all info (including recruitment and retention) and make a recommendation to government. They’re independent so government has to decide what to do with that figure.
Teacher assistants are worth their weight in gold and if I could I’d pay them that.
There is a 10% uplift on the way for them thank goodness, to try and stem the tide of them leaving for better paid jobs in hospitality or retail. |
So all this extra money you would give your own profession, where is the money going to come from ?
Would you cut the state pension so your profession could have more money ?
Would you cut care home funding ?, would you cut nurses pay ?, would you cut police pay ?, would you cut invalidity benefits ? | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:44 - Oct 28 with 483 views | trampie |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:28 - Oct 28 by Scotia |
There is only so much money to go around but some people deserve it more than others.
Doctors deserve it. As do pretty much every high earner in the country. |
You must be the first person I've conversed with that thinks council leaders and politicians deserve their high wages. | |
| |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:49 - Oct 28 with 481 views | Gwyn737 |
| And they ask why Wales votes labour on 19:40 - Oct 28 by trampie |
So all this extra money you would give your own profession, where is the money going to come from ?
Would you cut the state pension so your profession could have more money ?
Would you cut care home funding ?, would you cut nurses pay ?, would you cut police pay ?, would you cut invalidity benefits ? |
I’d increase tax for those who can afford it.
Austerity is a choice, not a necessity.
If you want public services you have to pay for them. Simple as that (although I would look at serious nhs reforms).
You’ve properly gone all 1922 committee this week, Tramp. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.