| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers 06:31 - Oct 16 with 8160 views | Whiterockin |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
"The RCEM said it could not measure "how bad" things were because thousands of patients subject to so-called "breach exemptions" were not included in the overall A&E waiting times.
The Welsh government initially disputed the RCEM's claim, but after seeing detailed figures - which were obtained through freedom of information (FOI) requests to health boards - it changed its position." |  | | |  |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 15:52 - Oct 28 with 1270 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 14:43 - Oct 28 by Boundy |
I could be wrong but I believe during Covid waiting lists were reset , a few relatives of mine phoned up the appointment service requesting a update on how long they had to wait for various appointments only to be told they either weren't on the list and had to restart the process again |
I phoned up and was twice told I wasn't even on the list, I kicked off twice and was promised I was put back on the list in the place I would be if I hadn't been removed.
I really should have gone to a lawyer.
Again, it tallies with what I was told, people who keep quiet just get forgotten about until they kick off. Keep making noise until you get treated but be sure to stay civil. |  | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:14 - Oct 29 with 1197 views | Flashberryjack |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 14:52 - Oct 28 by Gwyn737 |
How on earth is that whataboutary? The thread is about fiddling of NHS numbers!
At no point have I ever said the Welsh NHS is performing well, I’ve just pointed out that from a statistical point of view it’s very difficult to compare.
When you’ve people arguing about a 3 year wait in England compared to a 4 year wait in Wales it ignores the bigger picture. |
Of course it is, the thread is about Wales NHS, or did you miss that. |  |
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| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:25 - Oct 29 with 1191 views | Gwyn737 |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:14 - Oct 29 by Flashberryjack |
Of course it is, the thread is about Wales NHS, or did you miss that. |
…are those numbers being used to compare NHS Wales to NHS England?
The rest of my post remains the most important bit. | | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:39 - Oct 29 with 1179 views | Flashberryjack |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:25 - Oct 29 by Gwyn737 |
…are those numbers being used to compare NHS Wales to NHS England?
The rest of my post remains the most important bit. |
What about Scotland's NHS ? | |
| |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:46 - Oct 29 with 1154 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:25 - Oct 29 by Gwyn737 |
…are those numbers being used to compare NHS Wales to NHS England?
The rest of my post remains the most important bit. |
There shouldn't be anything to compare, it's called the NATIONAL health service which it clearly is not any more. It is a regional health service with great problems and disparities between regions.
Health should not be devolved, look at the mess that has created, nobody should wait over 5 years for a new hip, nobody should wait so long for a life saving operation or treatment that they die before they get seen, nobody should think they are on a waiting list only to phone up and find out they have been removed without their knowledge or any notification.
The NHS have been fiddling the numbers OR maybe, more accurately, the Senedd have been fiddling the numbers to make things look better but now they have been caught out, caught lying and they deserve a lot more than any of the lying gits will ever face.
Any government or NHS trust that alters the numbers to make the service look better than it really is should be facing criminal negligence charges, that goes for anywhere in the UK.
Any politicians who lie and get caught should face criminal charges, it's fraud. | | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:46 - Oct 29 with 1154 views | Gwyn737 |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 19:39 - Oct 29 by Flashberryjack |
What about Scotland's NHS ? |
Same point stands. Their figures won’t be comparable with England or Wales.
A massive overhaul is needed.
As I’ve said earlier I’d like to devolved powers for health removed. I can’t see any benefits. | | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 15:40 - Oct 30 with 1099 views | BarrySwan |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 15:52 - Oct 28 by SullutaCreturned |
I phoned up and was twice told I wasn't even on the list, I kicked off twice and was promised I was put back on the list in the place I would be if I hadn't been removed.
I really should have gone to a lawyer.
Again, it tallies with what I was told, people who keep quiet just get forgotten about until they kick off. Keep making noise until you get treated but be sure to stay civil. |
PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES FOR THE INORDINATE LENGTH OF THIS POST BUT IF YOU DO
DECIDE TO PLOUGH THROUGH THE LOT I'M SURE THAT IT MAY WELL HELP YOU OR YOUR FAMILY
SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE IN THE SAME WAY THAT IT HAS FOR OTHERS THAT I
HAVE RELAYED THE SAME MESSAGE TO AND WHO HAVE THEN COME BACK THANKING ME AS THEY TOOK THIS ADVICE
AFTER FINDING THAT THEY HAD BEEN REMOVED FROM WELSH NHS WAITING LISTS WITHOUT
THEIR KNOWLEDGE.
About 20 years ago I was put on a Welsh NHS waiting list for my ankle to be looked at by a consultant as an injury meant that I was hobbling about and struggling to work in my physically active job.
Knowing the pressure that the Health service was under I very patiently waited and waited for almost 2 years without being seen before going back to my doctors to see if they could enquire as to where I was on the list.
Both myself and my doctor received identical letters back from the Welsh Health Service saying that I had been taken off the list because I hadn't bothered to turn up to an appointment that I had been sent.
As you can imagine I hit the roof and felt so stupid patiently waiting for so long not complaining about an appointment that was never going to arrive.
I rang up the phone number on the letter to convey my disatisfaction. It turned out that the office number and consultant was based at Llandough hospital in Penarth ( I had no idea where the consultant was based and was just patiently waiting for the appointment which would tell me where and when to go)
The extremely obnoxious lady on the phone was quite indignantly instistent that I hadn't turned up for my appointment previously and when I asked to what address the so called appointment had been sent to she gave an address that I had lived in 20 odd years previously.
Not backing down, the woman insisted that it was my fault for not notifying them of my change of address that they were holding on file from my one previous appearance at Llandough hospital for mandatory X rays when I joined the Royal Marine corp reserves.
I pointed out that not only had I not known where the consultant was based but that of course my current address is provided by my GP when they sent in the request for consultation. I demanded a meeting with the management of Llandough and subsequently met with 3 of their top managers to express my discontent at the situation.
And anyway who contacts every hospital that they have ever attended every time they move? As mentioned your current address is on the GPs referral form?
They couldn't have been more apologetic and insisted that heads would roll ( as if ).
Two days later I received an appointment for just 10 days later, result you may think?
However upon relaying this to two of my brothers, both fairly high ranking accountants within the Health service and mentioned to them," I told you that I gave them a right rollicking at our meeting" they both burst out laughing at my thought that I had roused the hospital top brass to get cracking and both said that Jane Hutt was just about to announce that everyone on waiting lists in Wales had been seen by a consultant within 6 months or so ( I forget the exact period now) .
And to do so the Health service had been cancelling more urgent treatment all over the place to be able to treat less important conditions such as my own in order to make the claims. And sure enough a few days later there was just such an announcement and the consultant backed this up when I saw him saying 'You're right' they've cancelled a load of my fairly urgent appointments.
Since that time I have always pointed my own experience out to anyone mentioning that they are on a Welsh NHS waiting list and advised them to check that they are actually on one and quite a few friends and associates have come back to thank me saying that taking my advice they had checked only to find that they weren't actually on the list that they thought they were and were patiently waiting for appointments that would never have arrived without them querying with their GPs
******My apologies for such a long posting but I think that this is important for those still reading to thoroughly realise the implications and importance of regularly checking that they are still on NHS waiting lists.****
Part 2
Fast forward 20 odd years from the previous Lllandough incident and another medical referral, this time to the Heath in Cardiff.
Checking up after waiting some time due to my previous experience I was horrified to find exactly the same scenario, I had been taken off a consultant list that I had been referred onto.
Again it transpired that I had been taken off the list after the Welsh Health service claimed that I had not turned up for an appointment that I had never received.
One again I was so outraged that I demanded a meeting in person with the managers at the Heath.
I met with 3 managers who insisted on recording the meeting ( good ) and subsequently delivered to me a CD of the meeting ( bewildering given their recorded admissions during the meeting)
During the meeting and recorded on the CD are these 3 managers apologising and telling me that there was a glitch in the IT software used at the hospital which means that if a previous treatment at the hospital isn't signed off and entered properly future referrals by patients initially get sent a letter telling them that they are on the waiting list for treatment/consultation but the subsequent appointment to be seen is automatically overridden and goes to the patients previous address if they have moved.
I could scarcely believe what I was hearing and it was clear to me that this is exactly what had happened all those years before without seemingly any addressing of the matter within the Welsh NHS IT system during that time.
You may recall that about the same time as this was happening for a second time something like 16.000 letters were sent out to wrong addresses out of about 80,000 during the covid crisis which was well publicised by the media.
Well my experiences would certainly give one possible explanation of why.
When I insisted that these 3 managers march just down the corridor to the IT dept that they had pointe out and stand there whilst the glitch was rectified they answered ' Well we can only ask if they can have a look at the problem"
This just defies belief!
So I would suggest to anyone who has stayed until the end of this never ending post that if you do think that you are on a waiting list for the Welsh NHS.
1) Don't assume for one minute that you're still on it.
2) Don't assume just because you got an initial confirmation of being referred that you are on a waiting list.
3)Appointment letters are not sent out by recorded delivery and you will recall that the NHS keep sending letters asking if you wish to stay on a list which are not sent R/delivery so you might well not even know that you are being taken off a list because of an enquiry that you knew nothing about.
My observation that if a patient hasn't responded to an appointment letter or does not attend an appointment should be chased up to see why the patient didn't turn up didn't seem to really strike any chords with those I met with
4) Never trust the Welsh NHS admin as a default.
5) Never believe a Welsh minister or Health spokesperson when they pop up on the TV lecturing us all that such and such numbers of people didn't bother turning up for appointments. [Post edited 30 Oct 2023 16:06]
| | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 15:58 - Oct 30 with 1074 views | Whiterockin |
Thanks for posting that and I hope everyone on here takes the time to read it in full. | | | |
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| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 16:35 - Oct 30 with 1050 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 15:40 - Oct 30 by BarrySwan |
PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES FOR THE INORDINATE LENGTH OF THIS POST BUT IF YOU DO
DECIDE TO PLOUGH THROUGH THE LOT I'M SURE THAT IT MAY WELL HELP YOU OR YOUR FAMILY
SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE IN THE SAME WAY THAT IT HAS FOR OTHERS THAT I
HAVE RELAYED THE SAME MESSAGE TO AND WHO HAVE THEN COME BACK THANKING ME AS THEY TOOK THIS ADVICE
AFTER FINDING THAT THEY HAD BEEN REMOVED FROM WELSH NHS WAITING LISTS WITHOUT
THEIR KNOWLEDGE.
About 20 years ago I was put on a Welsh NHS waiting list for my ankle to be looked at by a consultant as an injury meant that I was hobbling about and struggling to work in my physically active job.
Knowing the pressure that the Health service was under I very patiently waited and waited for almost 2 years without being seen before going back to my doctors to see if they could enquire as to where I was on the list.
Both myself and my doctor received identical letters back from the Welsh Health Service saying that I had been taken off the list because I hadn't bothered to turn up to an appointment that I had been sent.
As you can imagine I hit the roof and felt so stupid patiently waiting for so long not complaining about an appointment that was never going to arrive.
I rang up the phone number on the letter to convey my disatisfaction. It turned out that the office number and consultant was based at Llandough hospital in Penarth ( I had no idea where the consultant was based and was just patiently waiting for the appointment which would tell me where and when to go)
The extremely obnoxious lady on the phone was quite indignantly instistent that I hadn't turned up for my appointment previously and when I asked to what address the so called appointment had been sent to she gave an address that I had lived in 20 odd years previously.
Not backing down, the woman insisted that it was my fault for not notifying them of my change of address that they were holding on file from my one previous appearance at Llandough hospital for mandatory X rays when I joined the Royal Marine corp reserves.
I pointed out that not only had I not known where the consultant was based but that of course my current address is provided by my GP when they sent in the request for consultation. I demanded a meeting with the management of Llandough and subsequently met with 3 of their top managers to express my discontent at the situation.
And anyway who contacts every hospital that they have ever attended every time they move? As mentioned your current address is on the GPs referral form?
They couldn't have been more apologetic and insisted that heads would roll ( as if ).
Two days later I received an appointment for just 10 days later, result you may think?
However upon relaying this to two of my brothers, both fairly high ranking accountants within the Health service and mentioned to them," I told you that I gave them a right rollicking at our meeting" they both burst out laughing at my thought that I had roused the hospital top brass to get cracking and both said that Jane Hutt was just about to announce that everyone on waiting lists in Wales had been seen by a consultant within 6 months or so ( I forget the exact period now) .
And to do so the Health service had been cancelling more urgent treatment all over the place to be able to treat less important conditions such as my own in order to make the claims. And sure enough a few days later there was just such an announcement and the consultant backed this up when I saw him saying 'You're right' they've cancelled a load of my fairly urgent appointments.
Since that time I have always pointed my own experience out to anyone mentioning that they are on a Welsh NHS waiting list and advised them to check that they are actually on one and quite a few friends and associates have come back to thank me saying that taking my advice they had checked only to find that they weren't actually on the list that they thought they were and were patiently waiting for appointments that would never have arrived without them querying with their GPs
******My apologies for such a long posting but I think that this is important for those still reading to thoroughly realise the implications and importance of regularly checking that they are still on NHS waiting lists.****
Part 2
Fast forward 20 odd years from the previous Lllandough incident and another medical referral, this time to the Heath in Cardiff.
Checking up after waiting some time due to my previous experience I was horrified to find exactly the same scenario, I had been taken off a consultant list that I had been referred onto.
Again it transpired that I had been taken off the list after the Welsh Health service claimed that I had not turned up for an appointment that I had never received.
One again I was so outraged that I demanded a meeting in person with the managers at the Heath.
I met with 3 managers who insisted on recording the meeting ( good ) and subsequently delivered to me a CD of the meeting ( bewildering given their recorded admissions during the meeting)
During the meeting and recorded on the CD are these 3 managers apologising and telling me that there was a glitch in the IT software used at the hospital which means that if a previous treatment at the hospital isn't signed off and entered properly future referrals by patients initially get sent a letter telling them that they are on the waiting list for treatment/consultation but the subsequent appointment to be seen is automatically overridden and goes to the patients previous address if they have moved.
I could scarcely believe what I was hearing and it was clear to me that this is exactly what had happened all those years before without seemingly any addressing of the matter within the Welsh NHS IT system during that time.
You may recall that about the same time as this was happening for a second time something like 16.000 letters were sent out to wrong addresses out of about 80,000 during the covid crisis which was well publicised by the media.
Well my experiences would certainly give one possible explanation of why.
When I insisted that these 3 managers march just down the corridor to the IT dept that they had pointe out and stand there whilst the glitch was rectified they answered ' Well we can only ask if they can have a look at the problem"
This just defies belief!
So I would suggest to anyone who has stayed until the end of this never ending post that if you do think that you are on a waiting list for the Welsh NHS.
1) Don't assume for one minute that you're still on it.
2) Don't assume just because you got an initial confirmation of being referred that you are on a waiting list.
3)Appointment letters are not sent out by recorded delivery and you will recall that the NHS keep sending letters asking if you wish to stay on a list which are not sent R/delivery so you might well not even know that you are being taken off a list because of an enquiry that you knew nothing about.
My observation that if a patient hasn't responded to an appointment letter or does not attend an appointment should be chased up to see why the patient didn't turn up didn't seem to really strike any chords with those I met with
4) Never trust the Welsh NHS admin as a default.
5) Never believe a Welsh minister or Health spokesperson when they pop up on the TV lecturing us all that such and such numbers of people didn't bother turning up for appointments. [Post edited 30 Oct 2023 16:06]
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Ah but we do things differently in Wales........ disgraceful and heads should roll. [Post edited 30 Oct 2023 16:36]
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| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 16:51 - Oct 30 with 1033 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 16:35 - Oct 30 by Treforys_Jack |
Ah but we do things differently in Wales........ disgraceful and heads should roll. [Post edited 30 Oct 2023 16:36]
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The worst thing is the Welsh government know exactly whats going on, the health minister is aware of all of ths because its done to make the numbers look better which is politcally driven.
Drakeford and his cronies have already been caught lying over A&E numbers, surely nobody can defend ths and say it's not Senedd driven?
The real shame is we have nbody worth voting for. If it's not to be Drakeford who do we choose because RT Davies is not fit to run a lemonade stall and don't get me started on Plaid.
Under devolution Wales is screwed. The people we have to choose from are people I wouldn't trust to look after my dog. | | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 17:10 - Oct 30 with 1015 views | Whiterockin |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 16:51 - Oct 30 by SullutaCreturned |
The worst thing is the Welsh government know exactly whats going on, the health minister is aware of all of ths because its done to make the numbers look better which is politcally driven.
Drakeford and his cronies have already been caught lying over A&E numbers, surely nobody can defend ths and say it's not Senedd driven?
The real shame is we have nbody worth voting for. If it's not to be Drakeford who do we choose because RT Davies is not fit to run a lemonade stall and don't get me started on Plaid.
Under devolution Wales is screwed. The people we have to choose from are people I wouldn't trust to look after my dog. |
A referendum on devolution is the answer. | | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 17:21 - Oct 30 with 1001 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 17:10 - Oct 30 by Whiterockin |
A referendum on devolution is the answer. |
They wouldn't dare. | | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 17:33 - Oct 30 with 996 views | Whiterockin |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 17:21 - Oct 30 by Treforys_Jack |
They wouldn't dare. |
I know.  | | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 17:50 - Oct 30 with 980 views | pencoedjack |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 16:51 - Oct 30 by SullutaCreturned |
The worst thing is the Welsh government know exactly whats going on, the health minister is aware of all of ths because its done to make the numbers look better which is politcally driven.
Drakeford and his cronies have already been caught lying over A&E numbers, surely nobody can defend ths and say it's not Senedd driven?
The real shame is we have nbody worth voting for. If it's not to be Drakeford who do we choose because RT Davies is not fit to run a lemonade stall and don't get me started on Plaid.
Under devolution Wales is screwed. The people we have to choose from are people I wouldn't trust to look after my dog. |
https://www.thepinknews.com/20
It could be worse this could be your MP. |  | | |
| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 10:05 - Oct 31 with 886 views | Boundy |
Nah try having Caroline Harris, or Mike Hedges ,both arswipes | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Are NHS Wales fiddling the numbers on 21:48 - Nov 23 with 755 views | felixstowe_jack |
594,000 patients on the Welsh waiting list a record high. With over 134,000 waiting over a year. 20 years of failure by Drakeford's government. | |
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