| Well well well on 18:02 - Feb 22 with 2279 views | Private_Partz |
This highlights one of the problems of Brexit. People have different expectations..There will be many not happy with this. Sounds like IDS is not thrilled either.
Dai Davis is right of course. During our decline it will take years before British people become as poor and as desperate as the present job holders to take over their mantle.
The race to the bottom is on..... |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Well well well on 18:11 - Feb 22 with 2239 views | rock1n |
| Well well well on 18:02 - Feb 22 by Private_Partz |
This highlights one of the problems of Brexit. People have different expectations..There will be many not happy with this. Sounds like IDS is not thrilled either.
Dai Davis is right of course. During our decline it will take years before British people become as poor and as desperate as the present job holders to take over their mantle.
The race to the bottom is on..... |
The question is why the f##k are we doing this? There is literally zero benefit to it.
I could give you immigration if you really want to shut the borders, but as I long suspected nothing will be done and for what?
Zilch benefit. |  |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| Well well well on 18:16 - Feb 22 with 2221 views | Clinton |
That red top rag cannot be taken seriously. |  |
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| Well well well on 18:21 - Feb 22 with 2201 views | rock1n |
| Well well well on 18:16 - Feb 22 by Clinton |
That red top rag cannot be taken seriously. |
Reported everywhere mate, just used that link because they're pro brexit | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| Well well well on 02:18 - Feb 23 with 1981 views | Highjack |
The cynic in me questions the timing of this. Seems like he's just handed the Stoke by election to ukip. |  |
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| Well well well on 08:40 - Feb 23 with 1844 views | westside |
All the brits sitting on their backsides in town centres, pubs and bookies, complaining about immigrants taking their jobs during the eu election. It these people who should be made to get up at 5am to pick fruit in the fields when the immigrants go home |  | | |
| Well well well on 11:28 - Feb 23 with 1749 views | Highjack |
| Well well well on 08:40 - Feb 23 by westside |
All the brits sitting on their backsides in town centres, pubs and bookies, complaining about immigrants taking their jobs during the eu election. It these people who should be made to get up at 5am to pick fruit in the fields when the immigrants go home |
Well said.
The notion that certain undesirable low paid jobs should only performed by immigrants because British people are too important to do them is inherently racist and exploitative. | |
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| Well well well on 11:54 - Feb 23 with 1707 views | blueytheblue |
| Well well well on 11:28 - Feb 23 by Highjack |
Well said.
The notion that certain undesirable low paid jobs should only performed by immigrants because British people are too important to do them is inherently racist and exploitative. |
No, it's not that Brits are too important.
It's that those choosing not to do those jobs and remain claiming benefits are lazy. Watch Jeremy Kyle, dream of one day getting onto the show themselves for their 5 minutes of fame. |  |
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| Well well well on 12:01 - Feb 23 with 1687 views | Lohengrin |
| Well well well on 11:28 - Feb 23 by Highjack |
Well said.
The notion that certain undesirable low paid jobs should only performed by immigrants because British people are too important to do them is inherently racist and exploitative. |
It's also the reddest of herrings, a way for greedy, unscrupulous employers to undercut the wages of British workers. There can never be enough profit for some. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Well well well on 16:07 - Feb 23 with 1536 views | rock1n |
There's a few basic truisms here:
1. Many people voted to leave the EU to cut immigration, if fact I'd suggest the majority did it based on immigration.
2. To keep our economy growing we have to keep a large supply of cheap labour from overseas.
3. Overseas labour does indeed reduce labour costs and therefore reduces wages for the lowest paid.
4. We need cheap labour to keep inflation lower.
5. We don't have enough skilled engineers in this Country to fill demand.
6. Brexit is a crock of sh1t | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| Well well well on 17:31 - Feb 23 with 1445 views | rock1n |
If we have less supply of labour, that will mean higher wages but it comes with caveats.
The price of goods will increase, therefore reducing the benefit of a wage rise.
The second element is that you'll have structural unemployment as there will be less flexibility and less opportunities.
We have low unemployment because we have a dynamic labour market.
People look at job numbers in such simplistic terms:
Why are we importing foreigners when there are 2m brits unemployed? It doesn't work like that for one many of those people would not be able to fill those vacancies as they won't have the experience, skills etc etc and the labour market is not static, if X amount come into the Country then that increases growth and creates further jobs.
So even though we've had record levels of immigration we're at record low unemployment levels - hence why the brexit thing is completely ridiculous.
We are doing well, I know it's not fashionable to say it as we're supposed to think everything is sh1t but it isn't.
That's not to say everything is all rosy in the garden, it isn't but it's not the fault of immigrants!! | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| Well well well on 18:41 - Feb 23 with 1392 views | AnotherJohn |
| Well well well on 17:31 - Feb 23 by rock1n |
If we have less supply of labour, that will mean higher wages but it comes with caveats.
The price of goods will increase, therefore reducing the benefit of a wage rise.
The second element is that you'll have structural unemployment as there will be less flexibility and less opportunities.
We have low unemployment because we have a dynamic labour market.
People look at job numbers in such simplistic terms:
Why are we importing foreigners when there are 2m brits unemployed? It doesn't work like that for one many of those people would not be able to fill those vacancies as they won't have the experience, skills etc etc and the labour market is not static, if X amount come into the Country then that increases growth and creates further jobs.
So even though we've had record levels of immigration we're at record low unemployment levels - hence why the brexit thing is completely ridiculous.
We are doing well, I know it's not fashionable to say it as we're supposed to think everything is sh1t but it isn't.
That's not to say everything is all rosy in the garden, it isn't but it's not the fault of immigrants!! |
You won't be surprised to hear that I don't accept some of those points.
Yes, increasing wages would be likely to bring some inflation, both because of rising production costs and increasing demand for goods. The plus is that it would also be likely to bring economic growth as more goods were produced to meet demand.
Structural unemployment is unemployment caused by major changes in the economy, rather than fluctuations in the demand for and supply of labour. For example, we had structural unemployment when the traditional heavy manufacturing industries contracted in the 1980s. What we are talking about here though is precisely a change in the supply of labour, which by definition is not structural unemployment - so that bit of the argument is wrong.
You say we have a dynamic labour market, but I see one characterised by high levels of part-time work, zero-hours contracts, minimum wage jobs and use of in-work benefits to top low wages up to a (barely) livable income. There is also a long-term redistribution of income away from the bottom to the top with the consequences that Stiglitz identifies.
Whatever the cause of the oversupply of labour that depresses wages, the laws of supply and demand remain the same. If increased supply were the result of anything other than immigration then most on the left would be sympathetic to the low wages = low demand and economic malaise argument. After all one of the main influences on Stiglitz is Keynes. However, one of the curses of identity politics is that where immigration is involved economics orthodoxy goes out the window. It is almost a point of theological doctrine that large-scale immigration must be a good thing.
I won't prolong the argument, but we'll have to beg to differ. I just thought other posters interested in this topic might be interested in Stiglitz's views. [Post edited 23 Feb 2017 18:47]
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| Well well well on 04:04 - Feb 24 with 1242 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Well well well on 16:07 - Feb 23 by rock1n |
There's a few basic truisms here:
1. Many people voted to leave the EU to cut immigration, if fact I'd suggest the majority did it based on immigration.
2. To keep our economy growing we have to keep a large supply of cheap labour from overseas.
3. Overseas labour does indeed reduce labour costs and therefore reduces wages for the lowest paid.
4. We need cheap labour to keep inflation lower.
5. We don't have enough skilled engineers in this Country to fill demand.
6. Brexit is a crock of sh1t |
Regarding point 4 - f*ck off is it?
So it's OK for the vast majority to survive on subsistence wages just to keep the price of cigars down for you eh. C*nt |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Well well well on 14:00 - Feb 24 with 1131 views | westside |
If British people want to earn better wages they should get themselves better educated, better trained and better skilled or start businesses, be smarter, do more than one job, etc.
This is what immigrants do.
Yet British people blame immigrants for their problems | | | |
| Well well well on 14:22 - Feb 24 with 1106 views | Loyal |
I had a really bad leak yesterday and tried to repair it whilst the water was running. It was virtually impossible, however once I cut the water off at source it didn't take long to stop the flow. |  |
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| Well well well on 22:24 - Feb 24 with 1020 views | rock1n |
| Well well well on 04:04 - Feb 24 by Brynmill_Jack |
Regarding point 4 - f*ck off is it?
So it's OK for the vast majority to survive on subsistence wages just to keep the price of cigars down for you eh. C*nt |
Resort to abuse, shows a complete lack of intelligence.
I never said I agreed with it for starters, I'm stating the facts behind the spin. High levels of immigration sustained new labour's economic program by keeping growth high and inflation low. | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| Well well well on 10:26 - Feb 28 with 888 views | Private_Partz |
| Well well well on 14:22 - Feb 24 by Loyal |
I had a really bad leak yesterday and tried to repair it whilst the water was running. It was virtually impossible, however once I cut the water off at source it didn't take long to stop the flow. |
You obviously need a plumber. I bet there is a good Polish one not far from you. ;-) | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Well well well on 10:31 - Feb 28 with 881 views | Highjack |
| Well well well on 10:26 - Feb 28 by Private_Partz |
You obviously need a plumber. I bet there is a good Polish one not far from you. ;-) |
It is a well known fact that all plumbers are polish and all polish people are plumbers so its also a fact that it's not at all casually racist to stereotype them as such. ;) | |
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| Well well well on 10:34 - Feb 28 with 876 views | Private_Partz |
| Well well well on 10:31 - Feb 28 by Highjack |
It is a well known fact that all plumbers are polish and all polish people are plumbers so its also a fact that it's not at all casually racist to stereotype them as such. ;) |
Cheers for claering up that. I most certainly am not a racist :-) | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Well well well on 10:35 - Feb 28 with 874 views | blueytheblue |
| Well well well on 14:22 - Feb 24 by Loyal |
I had a really bad leak yesterday and tried to repair it whilst the water was running. It was virtually impossible, however once I cut the water off at source it didn't take long to stop the flow. |
Clearly you need to do some pelvic floor exercises to manage your bladder issues... | |
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| Well well well on 12:07 - Feb 28 with 790 views | controversial_jack |
| Well well well on 16:07 - Feb 23 by rock1n |
There's a few basic truisms here:
1. Many people voted to leave the EU to cut immigration, if fact I'd suggest the majority did it based on immigration.
2. To keep our economy growing we have to keep a large supply of cheap labour from overseas.
3. Overseas labour does indeed reduce labour costs and therefore reduces wages for the lowest paid.
4. We need cheap labour to keep inflation lower.
5. We don't have enough skilled engineers in this Country to fill demand.
6. Brexit is a crock of sh1t |
Cutting immigration was the only reason most Brexshitters voted to leave. | | | |
| Well well well on 12:33 - Feb 28 with 763 views | Flashberryjack |
| Well well well on 12:07 - Feb 28 by controversial_jack |
Cutting immigration was the only reason most Brexshitters voted to leave. |
I assume you're guessing this, or do you have evidence that this is fact ? |  |
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| Well well well on 12:49 - Feb 28 with 746 views | LeonWasGod |
| Well well well on 12:33 - Feb 28 by Flashberryjack |
I assume you're guessing this, or do you have evidence that this is fact ? |
Quite a lot of evidence to suggest that immigration is the key issue. Not least from the fact that it's taken centre stage in the fallout and early stages of the government trying to appease the masses with a hard brexit.
Whether it's a genuine problem or just people believing it's a genuine problem, I'm not so sure. I think I'm right in saying that some of the areas with the highest leave vote also have the lowest immigration. Which suggests people are maybe engaging in the hype whipped up by UKIP, the Mail, Sun, Express, etc., as many will have no, or relatively little, direct experience of a real immigration problem. I believe some have also suggested that the Liverpool result anomaly may be as a result of the exclusion of the Sun there. Don't know whether that's the case though.
You'd be hard pushed to suggest that immigration isn't one of the top one or two issues people are thinking about. Just a quick look at the Ipsos Mori Issues Index shows immigration to be in the top 2 most months. |  | | |
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