| Not just blame Cooper. 23:09 - Jul 20 with 1453 views | Swans9 |
We came 4 last year out of 24 and we have been in the play offs 2 years running. Most clubs would be happy with that with the ambition of our board. Anyone thinks another manager can get us promoted with board signing 16 year olds for future. We up against teams with backing Fulham and squads like West Brom and Sheffield United. Can't make water out of wine. |  | | |  |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 05:51 - Jul 21 with 1385 views | vetchonian |
but it's not all about results and league position...its all about entertainment | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 06:37 - Jul 21 with 1370 views | jack247 |
Those arguing that losing in the playoff final is a bad season are a little entitled and detached from reality. One thing you can’t argue with is the league table.
That aside, entertainment is still a factor and Cooper doesn’t provide that. Yes, people can point to Norwich at home and Brentford away, but out of 46 league games plus the playoffs, they’d struggle to name 10 games where we were good to watch.
Gut feeling on Cooper is that unlike Martinez, Rodgers and Potter, who I feel would all have surpassed the previous seasons achievements if they’d stayed another year, I think he has peaked. Coming in now is also a tough ask for anyone else. I’d be pleasantly surprised if we reached the playoffs this time, whoever is in charge.
If he ends up leaving by mutual consent less than three weeks before the season starts, it’s a shambles of a summer. | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 07:24 - Jul 21 with 1351 views | Badlands |
Every time I drink a lot of wine it quickly turns to water! |  |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 08:03 - Jul 21 with 1316 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 06:37 - Jul 21 by jack247 |
Those arguing that losing in the playoff final is a bad season are a little entitled and detached from reality. One thing you can’t argue with is the league table.
That aside, entertainment is still a factor and Cooper doesn’t provide that. Yes, people can point to Norwich at home and Brentford away, but out of 46 league games plus the playoffs, they’d struggle to name 10 games where we were good to watch.
Gut feeling on Cooper is that unlike Martinez, Rodgers and Potter, who I feel would all have surpassed the previous seasons achievements if they’d stayed another year, I think he has peaked. Coming in now is also a tough ask for anyone else. I’d be pleasantly surprised if we reached the playoffs this time, whoever is in charge.
If he ends up leaving by mutual consent less than three weeks before the season starts, it’s a shambles of a summer. |
I agree with most of that.
Although fair to say that both Martinez (9th) and Potter (10th) had a lot of wiggle room to improve. Their finishes were hardly inspiring.
Getting us a 6th place finish followed by a 4th place finish may well be peaking, but peaking at those heights is no mean feat, there isn’t anywhere realistically to improve on that.
No previous manager has got us any further (in terms of finishing in the automatics), only Brendan has managed to get us promoted via the play offs and he had a legendary squad at his disposal and is unquestionably one of the best modern day managers in Europe.
I think people believe what Rodgers achieved here should be the expected norm rather the once or twice in a lifetime anomaly. If those are the standards we are setting then expect 50 years of disappointment. |  |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 08:45 - Jul 21 with 1275 views | jack247 |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 08:03 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
I agree with most of that.
Although fair to say that both Martinez (9th) and Potter (10th) had a lot of wiggle room to improve. Their finishes were hardly inspiring.
Getting us a 6th place finish followed by a 4th place finish may well be peaking, but peaking at those heights is no mean feat, there isn’t anywhere realistically to improve on that.
No previous manager has got us any further (in terms of finishing in the automatics), only Brendan has managed to get us promoted via the play offs and he had a legendary squad at his disposal and is unquestionably one of the best modern day managers in Europe.
I think people believe what Rodgers achieved here should be the expected norm rather the once or twice in a lifetime anomaly. If those are the standards we are setting then expect 50 years of disappointment. |
Your last paragraph is a major issue with our fan base.
‘We can get promoted playing attractive football on an average budget because we’ve done it before’. Unfortunately, it’s possible but not particularly likely. | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 08:45 - Jul 21 with 1275 views | vetchonian |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 06:37 - Jul 21 by jack247 |
Those arguing that losing in the playoff final is a bad season are a little entitled and detached from reality. One thing you can’t argue with is the league table.
That aside, entertainment is still a factor and Cooper doesn’t provide that. Yes, people can point to Norwich at home and Brentford away, but out of 46 league games plus the playoffs, they’d struggle to name 10 games where we were good to watch.
Gut feeling on Cooper is that unlike Martinez, Rodgers and Potter, who I feel would all have surpassed the previous seasons achievements if they’d stayed another year, I think he has peaked. Coming in now is also a tough ask for anyone else. I’d be pleasantly surprised if we reached the playoffs this time, whoever is in charge.
If he ends up leaving by mutual consent less than three weeks before the season starts, it’s a shambles of a summer. |
I agree wholeheartedly with that last paragraph if that happens then WInter should be following him out of the door.
Reading Keiths latest article it is intimated Cooper is gone see below
"Well, we can call that out, under a form of media silence he is still to work out his non disclosure agreement, and he is still awaiting the final details on his leaving the club. That’s certain. Hold that quote for future reference."
For me this no no way to manage things....if he is to leave by "mutual consent" this could and should have been worked out before now....he should be no where near the team and not involved with talking to prospective signings....which he supposedly has been according to Liam Walsh. What message does and would it send if this week it is announced he is to leave by "mutual consent" with no other job......what would those new signings be thinking....what about prospective signings.
And yes nothing is sure in football....how many times have managers left clubs after signing players to move to pastures new..or better themselves but that is different....this time the manager leaves with no where to go....it doesnt give the "executive management " of the club a good image! | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:01 - Jul 21 with 1260 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 08:45 - Jul 21 by jack247 |
Your last paragraph is a major issue with our fan base.
‘We can get promoted playing attractive football on an average budget because we’ve done it before’. Unfortunately, it’s possible but not particularly likely. |
Agreed, as a fan base we are spoiled. It used to be one of our strengths, we were knowledgeable, understanding, patient and we had our feet on the ground in terms of what we were as a club.
The attitude many have now is the same attitude we laugh at Cardiff for, or used to at least. We are a small club and other than two small periods in our history have been a lower league club with barely anyone watching us.
The stars aligned 10 years ago, I don’t think I will see another period of such success in my lifetime and I’m not old by any stretch of the imagination. We are not a Premier League club, it’s not a level we belong at.
If we get there again by some quirk of fate, I will highly doubt we will be there for long. That’s just the reality of it. | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:22 - Jul 21 with 1234 views | vetchonian |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:01 - Jul 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
Agreed, as a fan base we are spoiled. It used to be one of our strengths, we were knowledgeable, understanding, patient and we had our feet on the ground in terms of what we were as a club.
The attitude many have now is the same attitude we laugh at Cardiff for, or used to at least. We are a small club and other than two small periods in our history have been a lower league club with barely anyone watching us.
The stars aligned 10 years ago, I don’t think I will see another period of such success in my lifetime and I’m not old by any stretch of the imagination. We are not a Premier League club, it’s not a level we belong at.
If we get there again by some quirk of fate, I will highly doubt we will be there for long. That’s just the reality of it. |
Very true
There is all this talk of our "DNA"...yes we want "attractive" football we want to win..
It was interesting watching that video Loyal posted on the matchday thread of the Toshack era game....many have forgotten how we used "route 1 " to target Waddle or Tosh from the keeper kicking out...yes we had Curt and RObbie but often the ball went to Robbie then he took it forwards before unleashing a rocket form 25-30 yards out.....
Football ultimately is about results....especially to owners and especially to those owners who have no emotional attachment to the club.
I understand no one wants to watch Pullis/Warnock ball every week I couldnt I hated the football we played under COlin Applteon and Ian Love....we were very privaliged to have had the quality of football we saw during the Roberto, Rodgers and Laudrup years not too many other sides played that way...we also during those times had managed to assemble a good strong squad of players...and there was a momentum...I have always said look back some of the players who started in the PL played on that day against Hull Tate and Britton, then as Roberto added players and they rose through the ranks a "band of brothers" menatality grew...also as managers changed theose players needed to prove their worth to new incoming managers including one who was a "legend".....many of these players had begun life at PL clubs before being released.....the club was riding a mega wave .......so different to the circumstances since relegation yet some fans have this sense of entitlement.....the other issue is we havent been at the ground to watch and things are so differnet on the tv.... | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:39 - Jul 21 with 1210 views | KeithHaynes |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:22 - Jul 21 by vetchonian |
Very true
There is all this talk of our "DNA"...yes we want "attractive" football we want to win..
It was interesting watching that video Loyal posted on the matchday thread of the Toshack era game....many have forgotten how we used "route 1 " to target Waddle or Tosh from the keeper kicking out...yes we had Curt and RObbie but often the ball went to Robbie then he took it forwards before unleashing a rocket form 25-30 yards out.....
Football ultimately is about results....especially to owners and especially to those owners who have no emotional attachment to the club.
I understand no one wants to watch Pullis/Warnock ball every week I couldnt I hated the football we played under COlin Applteon and Ian Love....we were very privaliged to have had the quality of football we saw during the Roberto, Rodgers and Laudrup years not too many other sides played that way...we also during those times had managed to assemble a good strong squad of players...and there was a momentum...I have always said look back some of the players who started in the PL played on that day against Hull Tate and Britton, then as Roberto added players and they rose through the ranks a "band of brothers" menatality grew...also as managers changed theose players needed to prove their worth to new incoming managers including one who was a "legend".....many of these players had begun life at PL clubs before being released.....the club was riding a mega wave .......so different to the circumstances since relegation yet some fans have this sense of entitlement.....the other issue is we havent been at the ground to watch and things are so differnet on the tv.... |
He may have posted it but the dull sod can’t remember it 😂 |  |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:51 - Jul 21 with 1201 views | jack247 |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:22 - Jul 21 by vetchonian |
Very true
There is all this talk of our "DNA"...yes we want "attractive" football we want to win..
It was interesting watching that video Loyal posted on the matchday thread of the Toshack era game....many have forgotten how we used "route 1 " to target Waddle or Tosh from the keeper kicking out...yes we had Curt and RObbie but often the ball went to Robbie then he took it forwards before unleashing a rocket form 25-30 yards out.....
Football ultimately is about results....especially to owners and especially to those owners who have no emotional attachment to the club.
I understand no one wants to watch Pullis/Warnock ball every week I couldnt I hated the football we played under COlin Applteon and Ian Love....we were very privaliged to have had the quality of football we saw during the Roberto, Rodgers and Laudrup years not too many other sides played that way...we also during those times had managed to assemble a good strong squad of players...and there was a momentum...I have always said look back some of the players who started in the PL played on that day against Hull Tate and Britton, then as Roberto added players and they rose through the ranks a "band of brothers" menatality grew...also as managers changed theose players needed to prove their worth to new incoming managers including one who was a "legend".....many of these players had begun life at PL clubs before being released.....the club was riding a mega wave .......so different to the circumstances since relegation yet some fans have this sense of entitlement.....the other issue is we havent been at the ground to watch and things are so differnet on the tv.... |
The DNA thing is nonsense. Although it wasn’t long ago, we’ve got different ownership, different management structure and different players. I’d love another era like that, but won’t judge the rest of my life as a Swans fan against it. | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 10:05 - Jul 21 with 1184 views | vetchonian |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:51 - Jul 21 by jack247 |
The DNA thing is nonsense. Although it wasn’t long ago, we’ve got different ownership, different management structure and different players. I’d love another era like that, but won’t judge the rest of my life as a Swans fan against it. |
I agree Jack though there are many on here who take it as gospel and expect it | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 10:39 - Jul 21 with 1146 views | Catullus |
I want to be entertained, it's true but I don't expect 90 minutes of football gold every week. I accept that games will have patches of good and bad, there will be good runs and bad runs because that's how sport is.
What I struggle with is a team set up to bore the oppo into submission, a team of very little ambition. I can't handle 90 minutes of drudgery week after week. The last 3 months of our season was a good advert for Cricket and I can't stand cricket. The last 2 seasons in the EPL, weren't we amongst the most shot shy and where did it end? I can cope with route one if there's attacking intent and it's not just aimlessly lumping the ball out of defence for a forward to chase. Heck there are times when the long ball is definitely the best ball.
We managed an average of around 3 shots a game on target. Only 5 teams had fewer shots than us in total. The worst stat for me was against Cardiff where we apparently had 23 shots but only ONE on target and we lost 1-0, Cardiff had 9 with 7 on target.
Did we spend too much time training to defend and not enough time on attacking/shooting?
Some fans will put up with being bored every week as long as we win, others will walk away from a succesful but boring team but most of us accept there is going to be a mix of the two however, when the team is boring, negative AND not winning as was the case at the tail end of last season, the crowds will dwindle. | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 11:41 - Jul 21 with 1109 views | Gwyn737 |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 10:39 - Jul 21 by Catullus |
I want to be entertained, it's true but I don't expect 90 minutes of football gold every week. I accept that games will have patches of good and bad, there will be good runs and bad runs because that's how sport is.
What I struggle with is a team set up to bore the oppo into submission, a team of very little ambition. I can't handle 90 minutes of drudgery week after week. The last 3 months of our season was a good advert for Cricket and I can't stand cricket. The last 2 seasons in the EPL, weren't we amongst the most shot shy and where did it end? I can cope with route one if there's attacking intent and it's not just aimlessly lumping the ball out of defence for a forward to chase. Heck there are times when the long ball is definitely the best ball.
We managed an average of around 3 shots a game on target. Only 5 teams had fewer shots than us in total. The worst stat for me was against Cardiff where we apparently had 23 shots but only ONE on target and we lost 1-0, Cardiff had 9 with 7 on target.
Did we spend too much time training to defend and not enough time on attacking/shooting?
Some fans will put up with being bored every week as long as we win, others will walk away from a succesful but boring team but most of us accept there is going to be a mix of the two however, when the team is boring, negative AND not winning as was the case at the tail end of last season, the crowds will dwindle. |
Agreed.
It’s not a binary choice. It’s possible to accept that the playoff finishes over the last two seasons were superb achievements whist not enjoying the way it was achieved. | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 11:59 - Jul 21 with 1090 views | Catullus |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 11:41 - Jul 21 by Gwyn737 |
Agreed.
It’s not a binary choice. It’s possible to accept that the playoff finishes over the last two seasons were superb achievements whist not enjoying the way it was achieved. |
And as a further judgement of our team (as individuals) and taking our measure of success into account, how many teams have come calling for any of our players?
You might think a succesful team would have other teams looking but who have we had any offers for? We might see some action in the next few weeks but we're not exactly beating them off with a stick, are we. | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 12:14 - Jul 21 with 1067 views | vetchonian |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 11:59 - Jul 21 by Catullus |
And as a further judgement of our team (as individuals) and taking our measure of success into account, how many teams have come calling for any of our players?
You might think a succesful team would have other teams looking but who have we had any offers for? We might see some action in the next few weeks but we're not exactly beating them off with a stick, are we. |
The same could be said mind during the "golden years"
How many players were poached during Martinez Rodgers and Laudrups times
Jason Scotland went with Martinez,....no one came chasing Britton his agent found him a slot at Shefifeld,Trundle went to Bristol City....why didnt a bottom tier PL club gamble on him? they saw his limitations ...but he worked for us....Sinclair went to MAn CIty to warm the bench... Bodde perhaps and Rangel attracted some suitors...
Yes what we have always done is assembled a team which was better a sum of its parts than each parts individual worth/ability. It shows we at the moment have no stand out players for the PL...though we lost Rodon,Geuhi has got a transfer based on his performances here and I suspect Cabango will be watched closely this season | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 12:19 - Jul 21 with 1057 views | Thornburyswan |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 11:41 - Jul 21 by Gwyn737 |
Agreed.
It’s not a binary choice. It’s possible to accept that the playoff finishes over the last two seasons were superb achievements whist not enjoying the way it was achieved. |
Agreed.
Very difficult to be overly disappointed with our league table performances over the last 2 seasons, equally difficult to be pleased with how we achieved it. Ideal if you an armchair fan without a Sky/Amazon/BT sports package not so good if you fancy watching us play! | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 12:22 - Jul 21 with 1051 views | jack247 |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 11:41 - Jul 21 by Gwyn737 |
Agreed.
It’s not a binary choice. It’s possible to accept that the playoff finishes over the last two seasons were superb achievements whist not enjoying the way it was achieved. |
Absolutely. Perfectly sums up the last two seasons for me. | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 12:57 - Jul 21 with 1026 views | Treforys_Jack |
Some great balanced posts which pretty much sums up where a lot of us are. The achievement can't be understated, although art he end of the day we're in exactly the same position as when Cooper was appointed. I was looking forward to the game last night, then turned if off after an hr as I was bored out of my mind.maybe it's just me and I need to go watch something else. |  | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 13:33 - Jul 21 with 989 views | JJJack |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 12:57 - Jul 21 by Treforys_Jack |
Some great balanced posts which pretty much sums up where a lot of us are. The achievement can't be understated, although art he end of the day we're in exactly the same position as when Cooper was appointed. I was looking forward to the game last night, then turned if off after an hr as I was bored out of my mind.maybe it's just me and I need to go watch something else. |
Not just you mate. I switched over numerous times last season and the one before. I’ve no particular desire to drive from Bristol to see us in the flesh right now. I hope that feeling changes but can’t see why it would at present. The pandemic is the biggest issue (ie no fans at grounds). Killed my interest levels. |  | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 18:58 - Jul 21 with 845 views | BarryTownSwam |
This just may be the kick start our club needs. There’s undoubtedly talent within our squad, a young squad keen to do well for themselves & the club, and a fresh attack-minded manager/coach may see how to trigger the best in them.
Fans moan about Cooper staying, then moan when the club part ways with him.
Maybe this is the chance to reach-set the playing style and keep the moaners happy. | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 19:05 - Jul 21 with 836 views | Gwyn737 |
Next season, I’d happily settle in the circumstances with a mid table finish and having one player that when they take the field I’m excited about watching. | | | |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 19:23 - Jul 21 with 810 views | guthrieintherain |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:22 - Jul 21 by vetchonian |
Very true
There is all this talk of our "DNA"...yes we want "attractive" football we want to win..
It was interesting watching that video Loyal posted on the matchday thread of the Toshack era game....many have forgotten how we used "route 1 " to target Waddle or Tosh from the keeper kicking out...yes we had Curt and RObbie but often the ball went to Robbie then he took it forwards before unleashing a rocket form 25-30 yards out.....
Football ultimately is about results....especially to owners and especially to those owners who have no emotional attachment to the club.
I understand no one wants to watch Pullis/Warnock ball every week I couldnt I hated the football we played under COlin Applteon and Ian Love....we were very privaliged to have had the quality of football we saw during the Roberto, Rodgers and Laudrup years not too many other sides played that way...we also during those times had managed to assemble a good strong squad of players...and there was a momentum...I have always said look back some of the players who started in the PL played on that day against Hull Tate and Britton, then as Roberto added players and they rose through the ranks a "band of brothers" menatality grew...also as managers changed theose players needed to prove their worth to new incoming managers including one who was a "legend".....many of these players had begun life at PL clubs before being released.....the club was riding a mega wave .......so different to the circumstances since relegation yet some fans have this sense of entitlement.....the other issue is we havent been at the ground to watch and things are so differnet on the tv.... |
Nearly all clubs played the same systems in 70s 80s football has changed since then. | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 19:52 - Jul 21 with 782 views | guthrieintherain |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:22 - Jul 21 by vetchonian |
Very true
There is all this talk of our "DNA"...yes we want "attractive" football we want to win..
It was interesting watching that video Loyal posted on the matchday thread of the Toshack era game....many have forgotten how we used "route 1 " to target Waddle or Tosh from the keeper kicking out...yes we had Curt and RObbie but often the ball went to Robbie then he took it forwards before unleashing a rocket form 25-30 yards out.....
Football ultimately is about results....especially to owners and especially to those owners who have no emotional attachment to the club.
I understand no one wants to watch Pullis/Warnock ball every week I couldnt I hated the football we played under COlin Applteon and Ian Love....we were very privaliged to have had the quality of football we saw during the Roberto, Rodgers and Laudrup years not too many other sides played that way...we also during those times had managed to assemble a good strong squad of players...and there was a momentum...I have always said look back some of the players who started in the PL played on that day against Hull Tate and Britton, then as Roberto added players and they rose through the ranks a "band of brothers" menatality grew...also as managers changed theose players needed to prove their worth to new incoming managers including one who was a "legend".....many of these players had begun life at PL clubs before being released.....the club was riding a mega wave .......so different to the circumstances since relegation yet some fans have this sense of entitlement.....the other issue is we havent been at the ground to watch and things are so differnet on the tv.... |
Nearly all clubs played the same systems in 70s 80s football has changed since then. | |
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| Not just blame Cooper. on 20:07 - Jul 21 with 768 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Not just blame Cooper. on 09:22 - Jul 21 by vetchonian |
Very true
There is all this talk of our "DNA"...yes we want "attractive" football we want to win..
It was interesting watching that video Loyal posted on the matchday thread of the Toshack era game....many have forgotten how we used "route 1 " to target Waddle or Tosh from the keeper kicking out...yes we had Curt and RObbie but often the ball went to Robbie then he took it forwards before unleashing a rocket form 25-30 yards out.....
Football ultimately is about results....especially to owners and especially to those owners who have no emotional attachment to the club.
I understand no one wants to watch Pullis/Warnock ball every week I couldnt I hated the football we played under COlin Applteon and Ian Love....we were very privaliged to have had the quality of football we saw during the Roberto, Rodgers and Laudrup years not too many other sides played that way...we also during those times had managed to assemble a good strong squad of players...and there was a momentum...I have always said look back some of the players who started in the PL played on that day against Hull Tate and Britton, then as Roberto added players and they rose through the ranks a "band of brothers" menatality grew...also as managers changed theose players needed to prove their worth to new incoming managers including one who was a "legend".....many of these players had begun life at PL clubs before being released.....the club was riding a mega wave .......so different to the circumstances since relegation yet some fans have this sense of entitlement.....the other issue is we havent been at the ground to watch and things are so differnet on the tv.... |
The current Swansea squad is loaded with players who are promising with limited experience, There are a dozen of players throughout all position from goal keeper to forwards with pace all in the 19-22 age group and 20-30 games under their belts. Some like Garrick could play in a multiple of positions. They are team mates and competitor for first team slots.
Scott and the club behind the scenes coaches believe in them. Cooper did not and has walked putting himself and his own aspirations first. He has walked away from a contract and a glorious opportunity. One which Roberto and Brendan took on board. Cooper like Jackett perhaps knew his limitations. Cooper like Jackett did a solid job but was not loved by the fans. [Post edited 21 Jul 2021 20:08]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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