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England v Hungary tonight on 20:56 - Oct 12 by Flashberryjack
Why, what they done ?
Protested against England taking the knee and kicking off with a handfull of outnumbered Police officers, one of them was really going for it, think he'll be locked up after the game, they're bound to target him for arrest and rightly so, scum.
England v Hungary tonight on 21:07 - Oct 12 by max936
Protested against England taking the knee and kicking off with a handfull of outnumbered Police officers, one of them was really going for it, think he'll be locked up after the game, they're bound to target him for arrest and rightly so, scum.
So you're not allowed to show your disapproval of players taking the knee ?
Anyone that does this gesture should have some form of historical knowledge in my opinion. Its dangerous as you saw today.
It is pure ignorance to be blind to its deep rooted political links and also to turn a blind eye to the political links the clubs and countries themselves once claimed they were doing it to support... until they realised how awful it was and subtly changed their reasoning whilst expecting nobody to notice or remember.
Hungary was a socialist state within most of our lifetimes, until the late 80's. It's probably still a sore point in many households that are still feeling the economic effects of it after the Soviet occupation. Around 65% of its citizens said their economic situation was ''hopeless'' at one point in the 80's as socialist driven inflation went through the roof and wages heavily declined.
This gesture is clumsy, ignorant and not fit for purpose.
Quick review after 18 months of its implementation:-
Have things improved? Is it fulfilling the brief of unity and togetherness? or have things noticeably worsened? If things have improved, how have they?
Caveat of course that I am not condoning the reaction, but trying to discuss the larger issue. Violence is never something I condone, but without review it could well continue happening, especially with former communist/socialist countries that know the dangers of it.
And of course people need to realise that the claimed 'new intention' behind the gesture is irrelevant, the gesture itself will always be seen as a political one.
Why it hasn't been changed to fulfil a more unifying and non political brief is baffling, I can only assume that the conflict is the desired effect to justify the stance, whether the conflict is for the message or politically affiliated gesture seems irrelevant to them, any conflict will do.
[Post edited 12 Oct 2021 22:32]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Ferenc Puskas would be turning in his grave for lots of reasons, not least seeing mediocrities not fit to lace his boots being traded for multi-millions of pounds. And anybody who was around in the Fifties knows there has been a drastic deterioration in general behaviour and courtesy and manners over the past half century. But he would definitely take an extra rotation in his grave at the sight of a football team genuflecting in homage to a former serial felon in a country thousands of miles away. Funny old world.
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England v Hungary tonight on 22:45 - Oct 12 with 1105 views
England v Hungary tonight on 22:36 - Oct 12 by jackrabbit
Ferenc Puskas would be turning in his grave for lots of reasons, not least seeing mediocrities not fit to lace his boots being traded for multi-millions of pounds. And anybody who was around in the Fifties knows there has been a drastic deterioration in general behaviour and courtesy and manners over the past half century. But he would definitely take an extra rotation in his grave at the sight of a football team genuflecting in homage to a former serial felon in a country thousands of miles away. Funny old world.
Good post apart from your last sentence.
Therefore uparrowed by mistake I'm afraid.
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England v Hungary tonight on 23:11 - Oct 12 with 1062 views
It's a very right wing country, where this kind of thing is tolerated.
History will tend to push people to the right or left of politics depending on what effect it has had on you and your family. Hungary was destroyed by left wing politics and the country was brought to it's knees, the only logical step from that is people favor the center and right.
People see extreme left wing politics as the utopian dream, however its deadly, damaging and always has been. Those with recent experience of it will usually push back the hardest. No waiting lists to get into Venezuela that's for sure. Anyone and everyone fleeing their homelands, largely choose countries Governed by a center or right leaning economic system.
There is a reason for that.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
As Ive said Keith,it is endemic in east europe. Hungarians amongst the most sullen,nasty farkers you'll meet as regards racism.
When you think this island took on thousands after the Russians invaded you'd think they d have basic respect. They should be banned for ten years at least.
England v Hungary tonight on 23:48 - Oct 12 by Dr_Parnassus
History will tend to push people to the right or left of politics depending on what effect it has had on you and your family. Hungary was destroyed by left wing politics and the country was brought to it's knees, the only logical step from that is people favor the center and right.
People see extreme left wing politics as the utopian dream, however its deadly, damaging and always has been. Those with recent experience of it will usually push back the hardest. No waiting lists to get into Venezuela that's for sure. Anyone and everyone fleeing their homelands, largely choose countries Governed by a center or right leaning economic system.
There is a reason for that.
Hungary is not left wing now, and hasn't been under the influence of the Soviets for decades.Victor Orban is very right wing. I believe similar is happening in Poland.With extreme right, there follows extreme nationalism and this often manifests itself in this kind of Neo Nazi following. It's not unique of courses, as Russian supporters have recently shown us, but not sure Russia is particularly left wing at the moment.
Venezuela , is indeed a mess, but it wasn't brought about by left wing policies,as the media likes to portray, rather by the middle classes and big corps out there who were against Chavez, ably assisted by our cousins across the pond and their usual foreign policy interventions.
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England v Hungary tonight on 12:21 - Oct 13 with 842 views
England v Hungary tonight on 21:15 - Oct 12 by Flashberryjack
So you're not allowed to show your disapproval of players taking the knee ?
Of course you be allowed to show your disapproval … it let's decent people identify the fascists. Anyway, i am still struggling to understand why England are allowed to play home games in Wembley as they obviously unable to maintain order.
Hungary does not want immigration of Muslims from the east. This can be declared racist perhaps but people should be aware the majority of Hungary was under Islam Ottoman Empire control from 1541 to 1699 taken by force.
Its their land and their traditions and they want to remain a people that support relatively liberal democracy. They are prepared to fight for their rights to keep out people who will not fight for liberal democracy.
Puscas will have been proud of his pretty poor team fighting to get a 1-1 against the mighty England. Not 6-3 but progress never the less.
'Taking the knee' is an idea of the English FA board who repackaged it a generalist vague message from the original BLM protest messages against the USA police authorities.
Wise sage since Toshack era
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England v Hungary tonight on 12:58 - Oct 13 with 811 views
Puska I’d imagine would oppose communism as he lived under Soviet rule. Very offensive to some from Eastern Europe, taking the knee to support an organisation that is communist, after the suffering communism caused countries like Hungary.
Hungary is not left wing now, and hasn't been under the influence of the Soviets for decades.Victor Orban is very right wing. I believe similar is happening in Poland.With extreme right, there follows extreme nationalism and this often manifests itself in this kind of Neo Nazi following. It's not unique of courses, as Russian supporters have recently shown us, but not sure Russia is particularly left wing at the moment.
Venezuela , is indeed a mess, but it wasn't brought about by left wing policies,as the media likes to portray, rather by the middle classes and big corps out there who were against Chavez, ably assisted by our cousins across the pond and their usual foreign policy interventions.
Who said it was left wing now?
I said history will determine whether a country is left or right leaning depending on how left or right governance has affected it.
Left wing politics brought the country to its knees very recently. I’m relatively young and it was within my lifetime. There is clearly a fear and hatred of left wing ideology, understandably so.
The media don’t like to portray Venezuela being destroyed by left wing politics, they often skirt over that part. The reality however is that is exactly why it is the way it is.
The average wage there is now $2 a month. That’s what happens in socialist or communist states, they run out of production, they run out of money and they run out of skilled workers. This is what happened in Hungary all the way up to the late 80’s and even early 90’s until they abolished the socialist Government.
Doing extreme left wing gestures whether it’s meant as one or not, won’t go down well with many countries that have experienced it. Anything that can be confused by a promotion of those values will be met with hostility, it’s inevitable.
Excellent piece by economics21 here, written by a Venezuelan, that explains the media’s refusal to blame socialism for Venezuela's plight, yet the obvious reality that it’s exactly the reason:-
England v Hungary tonight on 12:53 - Oct 13 by ReslovenSwan1
Hungary does not want immigration of Muslims from the east. This can be declared racist perhaps but people should be aware the majority of Hungary was under Islam Ottoman Empire control from 1541 to 1699 taken by force.
Its their land and their traditions and they want to remain a people that support relatively liberal democracy. They are prepared to fight for their rights to keep out people who will not fight for liberal democracy.
Puscas will have been proud of his pretty poor team fighting to get a 1-1 against the mighty England. Not 6-3 but progress never the less.
'Taking the knee' is an idea of the English FA board who repackaged it a generalist vague message from the original BLM protest messages against the USA police authorities.
Muslims aren’t a race, neither are Christians. You can be a Chinese Muslim or an African American Jew, religion and race are very different things. It’s a belief system.
I agree however that the FA dropped a massive bollock. In fact many organisations, and normal folk who should know better did.
The FA made its affiliation with BLM known, as did many of the clubs. Often tweeting #BLM on pictures of the team doing this gesture. Once they realised what they affiliated themselves with, they needed a clean break and a clear change of message.
To then move away from that BLM link but still adopt the same gestures isn’t going to wash with a lot of people. The gesture and the politics will always be linked, even me typing in BLM on my phone the fist emoji comes up as a suggestion to use. There is no denying it.
Feels a bit like when Eastenders used to keep changing Phil’s son and expecting everyone not to notice. Just weird.
We have reached a point where these doing it have to ask themselves if they are doing it for self serving reasons or are they doing it because it helps and is making things better?
If it’s the latter, then they need to ask themselves how it’s making things better, because from where I’m sitting - it’s making things far worse.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
England v Hungary tonight on 14:00 - Oct 13 by Dr_Parnassus
Muslims aren’t a race, neither are Christians. You can be a Chinese Muslim or an African American Jew, religion and race are very different things. It’s a belief system.
I agree however that the FA dropped a massive bollock. In fact many organisations, and normal folk who should know better did.
The FA made its affiliation with BLM known, as did many of the clubs. Often tweeting #BLM on pictures of the team doing this gesture. Once they realised what they affiliated themselves with, they needed a clean break and a clear change of message.
To then move away from that BLM link but still adopt the same gestures isn’t going to wash with a lot of people. The gesture and the politics will always be linked, even me typing in BLM on my phone the fist emoji comes up as a suggestion to use. There is no denying it.
Feels a bit like when Eastenders used to keep changing Phil’s son and expecting everyone not to notice. Just weird.
We have reached a point where these doing it have to ask themselves if they are doing it for self serving reasons or are they doing it because it helps and is making things better?
If it’s the latter, then they need to ask themselves how it’s making things better, because from where I’m sitting - it’s making things far worse.
I still find it unbelievable a man of Trevor Birch's experience allowed his club to promote BLM for nothing using his club's facilities and website. This was supplemented by clenched first gestures which have different meanings to different people all of them political.
It should not be "left to the players". They are representing the city of Swansea and all the sponsors on the shirt including Swansea University, Low cost vans, The Turmeric company etc.
They are welcome to join a march and do any gesture they wish in their free time but not in a Swansea city shirt in my opinion.
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