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bang goes oct then 10:56 - Sep 22 with 16168 viewswombat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/54246745


Poll: which is your favouite foot

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bang goes oct then on 16:24 - Sep 24 with 2588 viewsPinnerPaul

bang goes oct then on 15:44 - Sep 24 by Cliff

"Not sure on the Sags argument - they surely work to the set of circumstances presented to them at each stadium at that time"

I assume they did and at the time they come up with recommendations based on the restrictions AT THE TIME. However the restrictions now state that the grounds cannot open at all, and the SAGs have no option but to agree.

"they would look at local rate of transmission and take into account other restrictions in place surely"

I doubt they have any authority or expertise to look at anything other than what is in their remit.

I am diametrically opposed to Boris and his government in almost everything it says and does, but at least they haven't been stupid enough to allow any sector to make it's own decisions by delegating responsibility. Surely anyone can see that everyone would put their sector above eveyone elses and we'd no restrictions at all!

I think you'll find offsetting does happen just the example I gave hasn't been deemed necessary yet. They have however tightened restrictions on pubs as a first step

I really can't see why people don't get it - you open things up and allow more mixing and interaction the routes for Covid spreading also increase, you shut things down and restrict interactions Covid has less routes to spread
[Post edited 24 Sep 2020 16:06]


SAGs don't 'belong' to football, they are independent as far as I know.

Obviously shutting down restricts infection spread - of ANY disease, not just Covid - of course I 'get that' - but it has to be a balancing act - as the government has acknowledged - otherwise, why not just go back to a complete lockdown again now?

Its not at all easy, its just there ARE some inequalities out there and that's what we are discussing - it might well be that we're heading for full lockdown in any case, so it will render this particular argument a bit pointless!

Probably wrong thread , so sorry all, but I don't understand Covid gets worse in the winter argument - its been even worse in other countries this summer with temperatures far higher than we get here in summer let alone winter - Spain, India, Brazil - just 3 examples - so why the winter argument - surely we all accept that you don't get a 'cold' - a virus - by being 'cold' so why is it inevitable that it was going to get worse in winter? This last part is just a general question Clive - not having a dig at you!
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bang goes oct then on 16:53 - Sep 24 with 2558 viewsCliff

bang goes oct then on 16:24 - Sep 24 by PinnerPaul

SAGs don't 'belong' to football, they are independent as far as I know.

Obviously shutting down restricts infection spread - of ANY disease, not just Covid - of course I 'get that' - but it has to be a balancing act - as the government has acknowledged - otherwise, why not just go back to a complete lockdown again now?

Its not at all easy, its just there ARE some inequalities out there and that's what we are discussing - it might well be that we're heading for full lockdown in any case, so it will render this particular argument a bit pointless!

Probably wrong thread , so sorry all, but I don't understand Covid gets worse in the winter argument - its been even worse in other countries this summer with temperatures far higher than we get here in summer let alone winter - Spain, India, Brazil - just 3 examples - so why the winter argument - surely we all accept that you don't get a 'cold' - a virus - by being 'cold' so why is it inevitable that it was going to get worse in winter? This last part is just a general question Clive - not having a dig at you!


Not my area of expertise, but it something I have done a bit of reading on. Scientific American says on the subject (with respect to flu):

"The answer as to why flu is a winter disease is not fully known. However, flu is spread largely by droplet (aerosol) infection from individuals with a high viral level in their nasal and throat secretions, sneezing and coughing on anyone close at hand. The aerosol droplets of the "right" size (thought to be about 1.5 micrometers in diameter) remain airborne and are breathed into the nose or lungs of the next victim. Situations in which people are crowded together are more common in cold or wet weather--and so perhaps this contributes to spreading the flu at these times. It is interesting that in equatorial countries, flu occurs throughout the year, but is highest in the monsoon or rainy season."

this is from:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-we-get-the-flu-mos/

We all know from experience that the common respiratory diseases, flu and colds, are for us winter diseases, which as pointed to above may be due to better transmission during the wetter months - which for us is winter. All evidence seems to be pointing to the fact that Covid utilities water droplet and aerosol based transmission (there was an excellent link to an article on this in another thread) and is therefore similar to flu and colds in this respect, which is why experts are predicting an increase in transmission in winter.
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bang goes oct then on 16:59 - Sep 24 with 2546 viewsCliff

Found that reference on infection routes I mentioned:

https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-1

It was posted by jamieNaz
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bang goes oct then on 17:37 - Sep 24 with 2499 viewsPinnerPaul

bang goes oct then on 16:53 - Sep 24 by Cliff

Not my area of expertise, but it something I have done a bit of reading on. Scientific American says on the subject (with respect to flu):

"The answer as to why flu is a winter disease is not fully known. However, flu is spread largely by droplet (aerosol) infection from individuals with a high viral level in their nasal and throat secretions, sneezing and coughing on anyone close at hand. The aerosol droplets of the "right" size (thought to be about 1.5 micrometers in diameter) remain airborne and are breathed into the nose or lungs of the next victim. Situations in which people are crowded together are more common in cold or wet weather--and so perhaps this contributes to spreading the flu at these times. It is interesting that in equatorial countries, flu occurs throughout the year, but is highest in the monsoon or rainy season."

this is from:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-we-get-the-flu-mos/

We all know from experience that the common respiratory diseases, flu and colds, are for us winter diseases, which as pointed to above may be due to better transmission during the wetter months - which for us is winter. All evidence seems to be pointing to the fact that Covid utilities water droplet and aerosol based transmission (there was an excellent link to an article on this in another thread) and is therefore similar to flu and colds in this respect, which is why experts are predicting an increase in transmission in winter.


Interesting Cliff, the line that viruses spread in equatorial countries all the year round, as we've seen with Covid, obviously points to the fact that it is still a bit of unknown area.

It IS correct though that 'normal' flu is obviously more prevalent here in the winter, but doesn't explain why the first wave of covid got progressivly worse in the European and North American summers and, as I said was particularly bad in even warmer climates like those of India and Brazil, much further south.

'Experts' don't always agree, so what chance have we got?!
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bang goes oct then on 17:58 - Sep 24 with 2476 viewsCliff

bang goes oct then on 17:37 - Sep 24 by PinnerPaul

Interesting Cliff, the line that viruses spread in equatorial countries all the year round, as we've seen with Covid, obviously points to the fact that it is still a bit of unknown area.

It IS correct though that 'normal' flu is obviously more prevalent here in the winter, but doesn't explain why the first wave of covid got progressivly worse in the European and North American summers and, as I said was particularly bad in even warmer climates like those of India and Brazil, much further south.

'Experts' don't always agree, so what chance have we got?!


I agree, it hasn't been here for a year yet and has hit different countries at different times, and it's always difficult to compare different countries which have different climates different population densities, different ways in which people socialise, etc.
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bang goes oct then on 20:16 - Sep 24 with 2405 viewsBlackCrowe

Ps. My earlier post about the website, which is still true of course, i rang Customer services to sort my (unlikely to be used) bubble - the lady on the end was lovely and sorted it there and then in seconds. By her reaction, I wasn't the first caller she'd had on the subject.

Poll: Kitchen threads or polls?

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bang goes oct then on 21:36 - Sep 24 with 2357 viewsrsonist

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bang goes oct then on 22:26 - Sep 24 with 2300 viewswombat

bang goes oct then on 21:36 - Sep 24 by rsonist



Another thing that seems to be allowed with zero safety is car boot sales , go past the the big one in tap low most weekends and thousandsmilling around each day with the people actually selling each week , how many/ of them take place each weekend around the Uk ,

Poll: which is your favouite foot

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bang goes oct then on 08:49 - Sep 25 with 2154 viewsThe_Beast1976

bang goes oct then on 21:36 - Sep 24 by rsonist



Tell the Premiershit to get fcuked and then breakaway from it; the Championship becoming the 'top flight' and the FL Cup being only for Football League clubs. Also, all FL and Non-League clubs withdraw from the FA Cup and start a new cup competition for Football league and Non-League Clubs only (perhaps bringing in clubs one step further down the pyramid?). I think the majority of fans of Football League clubs may be happy with that (I certainly would be).
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bang goes oct then on 08:58 - Sep 25 with 2136 views2Thomas2Bowles

bang goes oct then on 08:49 - Sep 25 by The_Beast1976

Tell the Premiershit to get fcuked and then breakaway from it; the Championship becoming the 'top flight' and the FL Cup being only for Football League clubs. Also, all FL and Non-League clubs withdraw from the FA Cup and start a new cup competition for Football league and Non-League Clubs only (perhaps bringing in clubs one step further down the pyramid?). I think the majority of fans of Football League clubs may be happy with that (I certainly would be).


Won't happen UEFA and Fifa won't allow it, Jobs for the boys.

Wot wot

When willl this CV nightmare end
Poll: What will the result of the GE be

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bang goes oct then on 08:59 - Sep 25 with 2132 viewsfrancisbowles

bang goes oct then on 08:49 - Sep 25 by The_Beast1976

Tell the Premiershit to get fcuked and then breakaway from it; the Championship becoming the 'top flight' and the FL Cup being only for Football League clubs. Also, all FL and Non-League clubs withdraw from the FA Cup and start a new cup competition for Football league and Non-League Clubs only (perhaps bringing in clubs one step further down the pyramid?). I think the majority of fans of Football League clubs may be happy with that (I certainly would be).


Don't think the owners of Championship clubs would be. No chance of the promised land.
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bang goes oct then on 10:21 - Sep 25 with 2062 viewsdaveB

bang goes oct then on 21:36 - Sep 24 by rsonist



Well they can feck off then
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bang goes oct then on 11:20 - Sep 25 with 2007 viewsBostonR

bang goes oct then on 08:58 - Sep 25 by 2Thomas2Bowles

Won't happen UEFA and Fifa won't allow it, Jobs for the boys.

Wot wot


How could they stop it? They are dead in the water as governing bodies go in terms of how Covid will impact football. No football clubs no UEFA or FIFA.

I have said this previously - a European League is the way and this is a golden chance to create a British PL 1,2&3 by bringing the Scotish clubs in. Revamp the FA and League Cups and re-build with proper financial and oversight governance.

The PL will eventually implode in its current form. Man City and the other elite clubs don't want to paly Burnley.
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bang goes oct then on 11:31 - Sep 28 with 1819 viewsBostonR

Which Championship club will fall first?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54322650
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bang goes oct then on 11:55 - Sep 28 with 1769 viewsCliff

bang goes oct then on 11:31 - Sep 28 by BostonR

Which Championship club will fall first?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54322650


With the obscene amount of money floating around in the game I would hate to see tax payers money being used to subsidise football.

If money is needed then it should be limited to the grass roots level
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bang goes oct then on 12:35 - Sep 28 with 1729 viewsdaveB

bang goes oct then on 11:55 - Sep 28 by Cliff

With the obscene amount of money floating around in the game I would hate to see tax payers money being used to subsidise football.

If money is needed then it should be limited to the grass roots level


There are easy ways to do it without the government getting involved.

Make these streams go to one fund at the EFl and distribute equally among all clubs to ensure all clubs are having a kind of ticket income until fans can come back.

Bring in wage caps to get some control over what is being spent

Long term change the way parachute payments are done and split money across all clubs rather than just the ones coming down. Clubs coming down would need to control their finances a bit better rather than spend 3 years of Prem money in one summer
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bang goes oct then on 13:25 - Sep 28 with 1666 viewsThe_Beast1976

bang goes oct then on 12:35 - Sep 28 by daveB

There are easy ways to do it without the government getting involved.

Make these streams go to one fund at the EFl and distribute equally among all clubs to ensure all clubs are having a kind of ticket income until fans can come back.

Bring in wage caps to get some control over what is being spent

Long term change the way parachute payments are done and split money across all clubs rather than just the ones coming down. Clubs coming down would need to control their finances a bit better rather than spend 3 years of Prem money in one summer


Something definitely needs to be done. In an ideal world the Premiershit tv money would be more evenly distributed (say 50% for Premiershit clubs, 25% for Championship clubs, 15% for League 1 clubs and 10% for league 2 clubs). Not a change though, as Premiership clubs just seem to want to stuff the whole lot into player's and agent's pockets
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bang goes oct then on 13:44 - Sep 28 with 1646 viewsCliff

bang goes oct then on 13:25 - Sep 28 by The_Beast1976

Something definitely needs to be done. In an ideal world the Premiershit tv money would be more evenly distributed (say 50% for Premiershit clubs, 25% for Championship clubs, 15% for League 1 clubs and 10% for league 2 clubs). Not a change though, as Premiership clubs just seem to want to stuff the whole lot into player's and agent's pockets


Which is why I'm against a government bail out, It would still just go to the players and agents pockets.
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bang goes oct then on 13:50 - Sep 28 with 1635 viewsThe_Beast1976

bang goes oct then on 13:44 - Sep 28 by Cliff

Which is why I'm against a government bail out, It would still just go to the players and agents pockets.


Yes, I am 100% with you on that point.
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bang goes oct then on 15:43 - Sep 28 with 1562 viewsNorthantsHoop

bang goes oct then on 11:20 - Sep 25 by BostonR

How could they stop it? They are dead in the water as governing bodies go in terms of how Covid will impact football. No football clubs no UEFA or FIFA.

I have said this previously - a European League is the way and this is a golden chance to create a British PL 1,2&3 by bringing the Scotish clubs in. Revamp the FA and League Cups and re-build with proper financial and oversight governance.

The PL will eventually implode in its current form. Man City and the other elite clubs don't want to paly Burnley.


Agree with you on this, let the elite in the Prem go off into a Euro Super league. It is time to reform the structure of the Prem and the EFL, as well as the cup competitions.
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bang goes oct then on 16:09 - Sep 28 with 1514 viewsloftus77

My ‘fantasy, no chance’ strategy would be this in a sensible, moral, world.

1. Suspend the top 2 leagues now. Declare the 2020-21 season null and void for the Pre Lge and Championship.
2. League One and all leagues below continue with season BCD, with moves to allow fans into stadia in 2020/21 when/if it is safe - as per now.
3. Accordingly, no relegation from the Championship in 2020/21 — no promotion from League One either. Instead, champions, runners up and play-off winners in League One get compensated with full, meaningful cash prizes and byes to 3rd Round of FA Cup in 2021-22.
4. For the rest of this season (20-21) in Prem Lge and Champ, teams play BCD in regional and national extended leagues, local cup competitions and organised friendlies incl. FA Cup (with replays as normal). An example could be a London Regional League or NW Regional League running from Oct-Jan. This will keep domestic football going. Winners of regional competitions could meet in a mini-National League running from say Feb-Apr. Overall winners get awarded European places in 21-22.
5. Clubs in European competition to continue as per now in 2020/21.
6. 2020/21 Season finishes as normal in Apr/May.
7. 2021/22 season begins as normal on time in August 2021 with full crowds in full stadia post-crisis (hope)…and on we go.
[Post edited 28 Sep 2020 16:11]
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bang goes oct then on 16:30 - Sep 28 with 1474 viewsBrianMcCarthy

bang goes oct then on 13:44 - Sep 28 by Cliff

Which is why I'm against a government bail out, It would still just go to the players and agents pockets.


It would. Look at Spurs for example - they attempted to furlough 550 staff, then they force them to take a pay cut, but they sign Gareth Bale on huge wages regardless.

"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Poll: Player of the Year (so far)

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bang goes oct then on 17:03 - Sep 28 with 1426 viewsNorthantsHoop

bang goes oct then on 16:30 - Sep 28 by BrianMcCarthy

It would. Look at Spurs for example - they attempted to furlough 550 staff, then they force them to take a pay cut, but they sign Gareth Bale on huge wages regardless.


And there you have it, the elite will continue at the trough. The whole wage thing is just out of all proportion with the reality of how these clubs finance themselves, though rich owners, TV rights and sponsorship. Whereas in the distant past prior to sponsorship and mega TV deals, clubs always had to rely on a rich benefactor and fans through the turnstlies.
The pandemic has exposed the whole financial foundations of the game i.e. have been built on sand. The Bosman ruling on player contracts of 30 years ago and the obscene TV money on offer to the Premier League has now been exposed. I can't see the government bailing football out on this one, they will expect the Premier League to fund a bail out. What the government may do if the Covid restrictions have to tighten is to let behind closed doors continue regardless, as if the TV companies have nothing to broadcast then the money from them is at risk.
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bang goes oct then on 17:36 - Sep 28 with 1357 viewsQPR_John

bang goes oct then on 17:03 - Sep 28 by NorthantsHoop

And there you have it, the elite will continue at the trough. The whole wage thing is just out of all proportion with the reality of how these clubs finance themselves, though rich owners, TV rights and sponsorship. Whereas in the distant past prior to sponsorship and mega TV deals, clubs always had to rely on a rich benefactor and fans through the turnstlies.
The pandemic has exposed the whole financial foundations of the game i.e. have been built on sand. The Bosman ruling on player contracts of 30 years ago and the obscene TV money on offer to the Premier League has now been exposed. I can't see the government bailing football out on this one, they will expect the Premier League to fund a bail out. What the government may do if the Covid restrictions have to tighten is to let behind closed doors continue regardless, as if the TV companies have nothing to broadcast then the money from them is at risk.


" The Bosman ruling on player contracts of 30 years ago ........ has now been exposed."

Surely nobody can be critical of the Bosman ruling. Keeping players after their contracts have finished was rediculous.
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bang goes oct then on 18:10 - Sep 28 with 1306 viewsThe_Beast1976

bang goes oct then on 17:03 - Sep 28 by NorthantsHoop

And there you have it, the elite will continue at the trough. The whole wage thing is just out of all proportion with the reality of how these clubs finance themselves, though rich owners, TV rights and sponsorship. Whereas in the distant past prior to sponsorship and mega TV deals, clubs always had to rely on a rich benefactor and fans through the turnstlies.
The pandemic has exposed the whole financial foundations of the game i.e. have been built on sand. The Bosman ruling on player contracts of 30 years ago and the obscene TV money on offer to the Premier League has now been exposed. I can't see the government bailing football out on this one, they will expect the Premier League to fund a bail out. What the government may do if the Covid restrictions have to tighten is to let behind closed doors continue regardless, as if the TV companies have nothing to broadcast then the money from them is at risk.


Football certainly does not a restructuring. The problem is if the Govt doesn't intervene then the game will undoubtedly be restructured even further in favour of the few at the top to the detriment of everyone else (and everyone else will be complicit in it happening on the off chance that one day they may be a part of the 'few'). The other problem is if the Govt doesn't intervene and the game doesn't restructure itself then the Premiershit will likely just let everyone else sink
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