| Tatics 08:23 - Mar 12 with 16834 views | RuislipHoop |
How pleasing to see GA ditch the passing backwards and sideways and be more direct.Some May call it long ball but it suits our boys much more.If we are going to lose the ball better to do it in their half than ours.Great performance,LR was rocking. |  | | |  |
| Tatics on 11:35 - Mar 12 with 1787 views | Sakura |
| Tatics on 11:16 - Mar 12 by Northernr |
We need to stay up, however we do it. Sweat the details in the summer.
We also need to be less easy to play against. For the last year we've been a dream opponent, way way too soft and easy to play. I think we've lost something like 28 of our last 48 games. We've got to get a bit of a backbone to us.
However, Brian is right. Yesterday was terrific, the atmosphere, the win, the relief, the bodies going on the line. But the long ball, shithouse, injury feigning, time wasting stuff is going to wear very thin very quick if results don't go well. Holloway first time around recovered the club and the team, put together a brilliant side, got us promoted, was a hero, but within 18 months in the Championship was getting some fierce stick for the style of play, the cloggers in central midfield etc. |
I think we have seen these last 5 months the reverse to be true as well. Pretty football, passing it around at the back. Being nice and honourable to give your opponents the fairest possible chance of taking points off you also wears thin if you don't win.
So it's clear what actually matters isn't the style of football it is the results and so the question then is what style of football is going to give us the best chance of getting results
Ainsworth's comment that Diego Simeone is his favourite manager says a lot and I think he is hitting on something. It isn't a guarantee that this will go well but I do think as we slash further chunks out of our wage budget it gives us the highest probability of success. The type of players who suit a physical long ball emphasis in our play are going to be more affordable than the technicians who are also athletic
If Simeone had tried to take on Real Madrid and Barcelona playing their same style of play then he wouldn't have ended up winning La Liga twice, the Copa del Rey, two UEFA Europa Leagues, two UEFA Super Cups, as well as being runner-up of the UEFA Champions League twice.
So typical of you NorthernR to sprinkle a bit of negativity into today. Setting the scene so you can say I told you so and reveal in that if things don't go well :(
But while there are definitely no guarantees I feel we are moving ourselves onto the route that gives us our highest probability chance of success
If we play dirty I will embrace that if it improves our chances on the pitch. And with good players like Chair and Willock around there will be good football in there as well | | | |
| Tatics on 11:41 - Mar 12 with 1774 views | numptydumpty |
| Tatics on 08:42 - Mar 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
I thought the tactics were awful.
I'm glad we stopped with the suicidal passing around the back, I'm delighted with and proud of the effort and teamwork and relieved with the result. That should be us safe now.
But we only completed 124 passes (one very forty seconds!), we feigned injury constantly, started needless arguments and all the other crap that we constantly berate Preston for. That's not football, imho, or anything related to football.
And I fully understand and respect that many of us will think differently.
As Simmo says, maybe it was a case of 'needs must', and maybe it was a one-off.
Maybe also the return of Chair and Willock will see us play a bit more.
Only time will tell, so no point getting overly worried just yet. |
You split opinion here Brian.
Thought first half Rangers did at times play good football.
Tim had few nice back flicks. Dickie began striding out of defence, spraying cross field passes, Dykes, Martin and Lowe as a combination was effective and we were tight at the back restricting Watford to few half chances.
So tactics were spot on for our current predicament ie needed two or possibly three wins to feel secure in the league.
But was it any worse than passing along back line and back again and slowly forward and then no opportunity at the end of it - those have been the tactics and our season had stagnated big time.
Got to admit, really personally do not like the timewasting, feigning injuries, walking off the field slowly, taking an age over free kicks, corners and goal kicks.
That part of the gameplan, I am not a fan of.
But it worked. 3 minutes and 7 minutes injury time in first and second halves respectively. I think both should have been double that.. in the world cup they were actually awarding the correct injury time so often it was consistently in double figures.
But in terms of the tactics, I believe Ainsworth got it spot on as we got a crucial three points. The longer the winless run went on, the harder games would get.
Second half was stressful no doubt but however we did it, we got the job done.
As Holloway put it, when the anti PC brigade had less sway. We pulled at the nightclub, not the best looking of young ladies but we still pulled at the end of the day !!!! |  |
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| Tatics on 11:42 - Mar 12 with 1772 views | Northernr |
| Tatics on 11:35 - Mar 12 by Sakura |
I think we have seen these last 5 months the reverse to be true as well. Pretty football, passing it around at the back. Being nice and honourable to give your opponents the fairest possible chance of taking points off you also wears thin if you don't win.
So it's clear what actually matters isn't the style of football it is the results and so the question then is what style of football is going to give us the best chance of getting results
Ainsworth's comment that Diego Simeone is his favourite manager says a lot and I think he is hitting on something. It isn't a guarantee that this will go well but I do think as we slash further chunks out of our wage budget it gives us the highest probability of success. The type of players who suit a physical long ball emphasis in our play are going to be more affordable than the technicians who are also athletic
If Simeone had tried to take on Real Madrid and Barcelona playing their same style of play then he wouldn't have ended up winning La Liga twice, the Copa del Rey, two UEFA Europa Leagues, two UEFA Super Cups, as well as being runner-up of the UEFA Champions League twice.
So typical of you NorthernR to sprinkle a bit of negativity into today. Setting the scene so you can say I told you so and reveal in that if things don't go well :(
But while there are definitely no guarantees I feel we are moving ourselves onto the route that gives us our highest probability chance of success
If we play dirty I will embrace that if it improves our chances on the pitch. And with good players like Chair and Willock around there will be good football in there as well |
Not sure what that 'typical NorthernR' paragraph is all about because I actually agree with everything else in your post. |  | | |
| Tatics on 11:53 - Mar 12 with 1716 views | BklynRanger |
Isn't 'tat' ics more Lyndon's department anyway? LOFL etc |  | | |
| Tatics on 11:55 - Mar 12 with 1715 views | WatfordR |
Yes we needed the result above everything else, no matter how it was achieved. But there are short term needs, and medium/long term necessities.
We have the new academy facilities that everyone has been screaming for, identified by many as more important to the club's long term future than a new stadium. The idea of the academy is to produce players we can sell on at profit to make us self sustaining, at least while we are not in the Prem.
Now, don't get me wrong. I realise full well that no successful team gets to be successful without a huge work ethic, and a desire to win. But if we are looking to produce more players with a big sell on value, there has got to be a way to showcase their talents in a way that makes them attractive to potential suitors. And energy and enthusiasm will simply be a given, what will add the extra zeros to sell on values will be technique to show they have a chance to cut it at a higher level.
If Chair or Willock were young players coming through, is the team under GA going to accommodate their talents and play them where they are most effective, or are they going to have to try and make the best of being given the odd run out on the right or left wing? Do we think Eze for example would have been employed by Olly in his best position, or would he have spent almost all the time stuck out wide right? Would he have become the player that Palace paid £17m for, or would he have just drifted in and out of the side and gone nowhere?
3 points yesterday, in the context of this season, was key. Vital. But there's got to be more than long ball and shithousery in the longer term. It may have its place at certain times, but it can't be Plan A all the time. |  | | |
| Tatics on 11:58 - Mar 12 with 1701 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Tatics on 11:42 - Mar 12 by Northernr |
Not sure what that 'typical NorthernR' paragraph is all about because I actually agree with everything else in your post. |
i'm hoping Sakura meant bringing us back to earth with a small tablespoon of reality. I'm sure (hoping) that did not mean to come across as snidey as it could be misread. | | | |
| Tatics on 11:58 - Mar 12 with 1701 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Excellent debate.
I’m out amd about all day but look forward to reading more later. |  |
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| Tatics on 12:01 - Mar 12 with 1680 views | Boston |
| Tatics on 08:42 - Mar 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
I thought the tactics were awful.
I'm glad we stopped with the suicidal passing around the back, I'm delighted with and proud of the effort and teamwork and relieved with the result. That should be us safe now.
But we only completed 124 passes (one very forty seconds!), we feigned injury constantly, started needless arguments and all the other crap that we constantly berate Preston for. That's not football, imho, or anything related to football.
And I fully understand and respect that many of us will think differently.
As Simmo says, maybe it was a case of 'needs must', and maybe it was a one-off.
Maybe also the return of Chair and Willock will see us play a bit more.
Only time will tell, so no point getting overly worried just yet. |
Let's call it a more 'robust' style of play. We'll take a nod to your thoughts and name it the GAA...Gareth Ainsworth's Athletics. | |
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| Tatics on 12:02 - Mar 12 with 1678 views | 100percent |
I think the true mark of the man, GA, - and also the support of the board - will be the ability to mix it up and match whatever team we are up against. Sure there were points yesterday that made me wince, but the over riding factor was getting the win and taking the game to t-watford. They clearly didn't enjoy our approach and it totally unsettled them and prevented their expensive side from playing.
Is it the way I want us to play all the time? hell no, but it was great to see some blood, guts and determination for a change. We have flair players, but they are injured and we need to play them when they will be effective.
The pleasing factor for me yesterday was the way that GA took each substitution player before each change and explained exactly what he wanted them to do. It was a game plan that was carried out.
Hopefully once we are safe and he gets the opportunity to start planning for next year, it will be an approach based on changing the game plan to fit the opponent. 3 points in whatever manner necessary.
Yesterday was extremely enjoyable for a host of reasons - we just need to be able to build on it. |  | | |
| Tatics on 12:02 - Mar 12 with 1677 views | danehoop |
Fair question Watford.
I reckon Gaz is probably best described as a very pragmatic manager and looks to play the most appropriate set up based on the players he has available and the opponents that he has to play against. He is also fairly adept at making substitutions to respond to changes in circumstances, so Adomah for Dykes yesterday I thought worked quite well, though wasn't my first thought for the swap.
As for fitting in talent to the team - Eze absolutely flourished under Gaz at Wycombe and I think that giving confidence and guidance to young players is something he does very well. Again yesterday, he played Drewe and Kakay, clearly had been working with them a lot over the past few weeks and you can see that faith/coaching on what he wants from them worked yesterday. Won't work every week, but he has started something. |  |
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| Tatics on 12:03 - Mar 12 with 1672 views | Northernr |
| Tatics on 11:58 - Mar 12 by ParkRoyalR |
i'm hoping Sakura meant bringing us back to earth with a small tablespoon of reality. I'm sure (hoping) that did not mean to come across as snidey as it could be misread. |
I'm not his favourite person mate   | | | |
| Tatics on 12:06 - Mar 12 with 1651 views | nix |
| Tatics on 12:03 - Mar 12 by Northernr |
I'm not his favourite person mate |
Which is probably a compliment to your character for the rest of the world, and certainly the rest of the Board. |  | | |
| Tatics on 12:11 - Mar 12 with 1634 views | Blue_Castello |
| Tatics on 11:09 - Mar 12 by nix |
I know what you're saying Brian but there was also a LOT of shithousery from Watford too. And I think we'd have played right into their hands not to have countered it a bit. There was a sustained campaign, particularly by Choudhury, Pedro and Davis to get our players booked, Choudhury tracked the ref so much he looked like Mary's little lamb. The number of dives in and around our penalty area was ridiculous. Holding onto the ball or throwing it away for our freekicks and throw ins, contesting Every. Single. Decision that went in our favour. Leaning all over/holding onto our players and then twisting round at the last second to make it look like they were fouled (this was happening all over the pitch).
In an ideal world this wouldn't happen and either everyone would play to the rules or the officials would be wise to it and clamp down. Unfortunately neither happens, especially in the Championship. These small margins make a difference. For instance, Watford did at least three foul throws, and the ref only gave one of them: that's two lots of advantage to Watford.
I know we complain about Preston et al. But if we're the ONLY team playing by the rules then we're going to lose more games than we should. |
Agreed yesterday was all about getting the win, we have looked far too easy to play against for too long, finally after what seems like an eternity we have a manager who will switch to three at the back to get a result, I've been saying that since Burnley at home and Critchley was never going to change from a back four, if you can't play different formations when the need arises then you don't deserve to keep your job.
To be honest I'm amazed this morning that anybody is moaning about the tactics, it was exactly what we needed, a complete team performance where we competed and won first balls and then were challenging for the second, winning tackles and generally disrupting the play of Watford, everybody sitting near me was excited by the performance, compare that to passing it around endlessly at the back and then losing the ball.
As for the shithousing Watford were no angels at all did there own fair share as Nix has highlighted, I guess ours looked worse because players were going down but Dozzell and Drewes cramp were probably genuine you have to ask them, Johansen took an almighty whack in the back which seriously winded him, you need to ask Field about his injury but the lad was awesome and my Man of the Match he never stopped and did such a great job playing in a back three when they had the ball and then pushing forward when we were in possession.
It's all about getting points on the board another two wins should see us safe, once that's achieved we can revert back to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 , whatever formation Ainsworth prefers if he wants to stick with wing backs I don't see a problem, it's just great to have options. What a relief yesterday was the feeling at full time to know we have competed for 97 minutes and every player has given everything on the pitch, big shout out as well for Chris Martin who would of thought after all those years giving him stick, what an intelligent player.
Another thought if we hadn't employed those tactics yesterday we would have lost almost a guaranteed certainty, Watford have a hell of a lot of talent in their team, keeping Joao Pedro on a leash was a major achievement in itself, the number one priority was don't loose and secondly get a goal to win all three points, mission accomplished. [Post edited 12 Mar 2023 12:33]
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| Tatics on 12:12 - Mar 12 with 1628 views | hubble |
| Tatics on 11:53 - Mar 12 by BklynRanger |
Isn't 'tat' ics more Lyndon's department anyway? LOFL etc |
If we get the 'tatics' right v the Latics we won't need these antics, which will undoubtedly please the romantics.
. [Post edited 12 Mar 2023 12:13]
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| Tatics on 12:15 - Mar 12 with 1615 views | Boston |
| Tatics on 12:02 - Mar 12 by 100percent |
I think the true mark of the man, GA, - and also the support of the board - will be the ability to mix it up and match whatever team we are up against. Sure there were points yesterday that made me wince, but the over riding factor was getting the win and taking the game to t-watford. They clearly didn't enjoy our approach and it totally unsettled them and prevented their expensive side from playing.
Is it the way I want us to play all the time? hell no, but it was great to see some blood, guts and determination for a change. We have flair players, but they are injured and we need to play them when they will be effective.
The pleasing factor for me yesterday was the way that GA took each substitution player before each change and explained exactly what he wanted them to do. It was a game plan that was carried out.
Hopefully once we are safe and he gets the opportunity to start planning for next year, it will be an approach based on changing the game plan to fit the opponent. 3 points in whatever manner necessary.
Yesterday was extremely enjoyable for a host of reasons - we just need to be able to build on it. |
If you read their managers comments - he, their players, knew what they were going to run into yesterday as Ainsworth and our players had fck all other options if we wanted to get anything out of this fixture. | |
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| Tatics on 12:16 - Mar 12 with 1615 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Tatics on 12:03 - Mar 12 by Northernr |
I'm not his favourite person mate |
Haha, cheap shot is being polite, always WATRB if you want to make snidey digs at fellow posters, even me + Gazza are on the same page now after the last 20 games of despair turning to League1 terror + oblivion. | | | |
| Tatics on 12:17 - Mar 12 with 1613 views | THEBUSH |
Not sure what those on here expected our style of play to be.
We have a horrific injury list, as everyone knows.
When our centre backs kept passing to one another, what is more boring than that ? |  | | |
| Tatics on 12:19 - Mar 12 with 1605 views | 1JD |
| Tatics on 11:55 - Mar 12 by WatfordR |
Yes we needed the result above everything else, no matter how it was achieved. But there are short term needs, and medium/long term necessities.
We have the new academy facilities that everyone has been screaming for, identified by many as more important to the club's long term future than a new stadium. The idea of the academy is to produce players we can sell on at profit to make us self sustaining, at least while we are not in the Prem.
Now, don't get me wrong. I realise full well that no successful team gets to be successful without a huge work ethic, and a desire to win. But if we are looking to produce more players with a big sell on value, there has got to be a way to showcase their talents in a way that makes them attractive to potential suitors. And energy and enthusiasm will simply be a given, what will add the extra zeros to sell on values will be technique to show they have a chance to cut it at a higher level.
If Chair or Willock were young players coming through, is the team under GA going to accommodate their talents and play them where they are most effective, or are they going to have to try and make the best of being given the odd run out on the right or left wing? Do we think Eze for example would have been employed by Olly in his best position, or would he have spent almost all the time stuck out wide right? Would he have become the player that Palace paid £17m for, or would he have just drifted in and out of the side and gone nowhere?
3 points yesterday, in the context of this season, was key. Vital. But there's got to be more than long ball and shithousery in the longer term. It may have its place at certain times, but it can't be Plan A all the time. |
Excellent post. | | | |
| Tatics on 12:21 - Mar 12 with 1602 views | Northernr |
| Tatics on 12:16 - Mar 12 by ParkRoyalR |
Haha, cheap shot is being polite, always WATRB if you want to make snidey digs at fellow posters, even me + Gazza are on the same page now after the last 20 games of despair turning to League1 terror + oblivion. |
Ha ha, sat a couple of seats away from Gaz for the last 20-odd years, had some agreements, had some disagreements, he's sound though. "Proper Rangers" as he would say  | | | |
| Tatics on 12:24 - Mar 12 with 1594 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Tatics on 12:21 - Mar 12 by Northernr |
Ha ha, sat a couple of seats away from Gaz for the last 20-odd years, had some agreements, had some disagreements, he's sound though. "Proper Rangers" as he would say |
That'll do for me!
And poster above fearing Ainsworth style of play, I know it's early days but Eze thrived under Ainsworth for 20 odd games for Wycombe and I'm sure there's more to Gaz than Route1, time will tell. | | | |
| Tatics on 12:34 - Mar 12 with 1563 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Tatics on 08:42 - Mar 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
I thought the tactics were awful.
I'm glad we stopped with the suicidal passing around the back, I'm delighted with and proud of the effort and teamwork and relieved with the result. That should be us safe now.
But we only completed 124 passes (one very forty seconds!), we feigned injury constantly, started needless arguments and all the other crap that we constantly berate Preston for. That's not football, imho, or anything related to football.
And I fully understand and respect that many of us will think differently.
As Simmo says, maybe it was a case of 'needs must', and maybe it was a one-off.
Maybe also the return of Chair and Willock will see us play a bit more.
Only time will tell, so no point getting overly worried just yet. |
The problem is that we've got a below average Championship budget (well at least should have), so if we try to be nice against teams with way higher budgets we're not going to get anywhere.
Also any skilful players we have tend to leave after a year or two and are not easy to replace, Yes we got good money for Eze, but that was an outlier. BOS left for free and Sterling never even played one game for us. I wonder how much we'll end up getting for Chair and Willock, if anything. | | | |
| Tatics on 12:46 - Mar 12 with 1527 views | QPROslo |
| Tatics on 09:38 - Mar 12 by davman |
Sorry, Bri, but I loved it.
The result is no. 1, how we get there is secondary.
I am 100% biased and want to win. If that comes at a cost of playing football "properly" so be it.
I once watched a Royal Navy video on why we have to spend billions on defence. Their opening line was "In an ideal world, there should be no need to spend on armed forces". Then they listed and showed images of incidents across history around the world voicing over "this is NOT an ideal world".
Same with football. Everyone else seems to get away with cheating the ideal rules using the #housery you saw yesterday. Like you, I am not a fan. However, sitting back, crying about how unfair it all is should not be an option and "is not cricket" gets you nowhere. If you can't beat them you have to join them.
Also, GA's main purpose after those last two games was 100% clear. Sort that sieve of a defence out and then the pressure to score is lessened. I actually think that is the way forward for our club. Sort the back 6 or 7 out, keep things tight and let 4 or 5 attackers worry about "playing" further up the field.
Also, no Chair, Roberts, Willock or Richards in that starting line up, so what ya going to do? |
It certainly worked well enough yesterday. I hardly noticed Chair, Willock, Roberts or Richards not being there, at least not the Willock we've seen since he did his hamstring early season. Roberts only really played well the game he scored twice in, Reading? Richards we've only ever had glimpses of, he could be useful if he ever gets fully fit. Not quite sure how Chair would have fitted in yesterday either, but Gareth will be happy to sort that luxury problem when he's fit again. | | | |
| Tatics on 12:55 - Mar 12 with 1471 views | westy |
| Tatics on 08:42 - Mar 12 by BrianMcCarthy |
I thought the tactics were awful.
I'm glad we stopped with the suicidal passing around the back, I'm delighted with and proud of the effort and teamwork and relieved with the result. That should be us safe now.
But we only completed 124 passes (one very forty seconds!), we feigned injury constantly, started needless arguments and all the other crap that we constantly berate Preston for. That's not football, imho, or anything related to football.
And I fully understand and respect that many of us will think differently.
As Simmo says, maybe it was a case of 'needs must', and maybe it was a one-off.
Maybe also the return of Chair and Willock will see us play a bit more.
Only time will tell, so no point getting overly worried just yet. |
Tbf that’s why he’s paid to manage the team not you or I or anyone else.
How would you have like us to play. Nice neat passing out from the back, keep ball, neat triangles, sit back in and let them have the ball up to our 40yd area then press. Oh and then probably lose 3-1.
I’d rather the fighting spirit, in their faces, game management or (shithousery) tactics. And have a chance of getting a result which is much needed.
Against Rotherham we had 52% possession and 295 passes to their292. Lost 3-1.
I’ve seen stats yesterday of 40% possession and 243 passes. won. 1-0
Against Blackburn 55%. 393 passes against 342. Lost 3-1
I know which I prefer atm it’s all about the end result no how we get to it.
Remember these are championship players not champions league players.
Not many teams like to come up against GA for a reason.
Those reasons are many and if that includes upsetting the purists and staying up rather than being involved in lge 1 next season then so be it.
We all have our thoughts and I’m not having a pop but if this club gets relegated it would be an absolute disaster. From financial to obtaining certain players for next season. It’s all so much better in the championship. [Post edited 12 Mar 2023 13:03]
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| Tatics on 12:58 - Mar 12 with 1457 views | baz_qpr |
The key for yesterday was to keep the ball out of our half at any cost and off you could not punt it forwards put it out to touch and reset positionally, and it was the reason why Watford never laid a glove on us and why we dominated the 1st half so much.
Needs must, but it won't be a sustainable way to play in the medium / long term and ultimately Gareth will have to find a balance between attritional safety first football and more progressive technical football if we are to sustain the club by developing players to sell to the higher leagues |  | | |
| Tatics on 13:10 - Mar 12 with 1414 views | dutch |
I wanted Rangers to win as much as the next man, and yesterday the man next to me in SA was Kevin Gallen. I cheered and roared at the end and loved the commitment and passion, had the best day in yonks and the best beer after. But, and it is a pivotal but, I don't want to watch thud and blunder football every week. Long throws from a short full back, head tennis, Gary Owens to chase, argy bargy and shameless shithousing. Nah, not for me, happy to put up with it for as long as it takes to keep us up, but give me Ezes' goal away at Stoke every now and then please. We aint going to win any trophies, so I have to enjoy the football occasionally. | | | |
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