| Club Accounts 12:42 - Feb 17 with 14454 views | wombat |
Due out oin the next few days i belive |  |
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| Club Accounts on 11:01 - Feb 18 with 1581 views | lassel |
| Club Accounts on 10:42 - Feb 18 by JamesB1979 |
Ah yes, that’s where the £10m comes from. But doesn’t tie to the cash paid (6m) in the accounts. So must include deferred, maybe contingent part? |
Unrealised add-ons are a non-cash item but are considered at point of acquisition. |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:06 - Feb 18 with 1512 views | Hunterhoop |
| Club Accounts on 10:02 - Feb 18 by JamesB1979 |
Yes those numbers must include Eze and Kelman but not Edwards. But that’s £10m outflow for the transfers this year too. With Edwards that’s £14m. So Mbengue, Kone, Burrell, Saito, Poku also included. I’m not sure that’s too bad. The bigger concern is the wage bill increase.
I’m not actually sure we do need to make a profit from player sales this summer. But will wait for your podcast on this as he’ll (sorry forgot his name) is very good at breaking this down. |
I'd like Simon to break this all down too, because i think the way the post reporting events are presented is a tad confusing/misleading.
As per the 24/25 numbers, on page 28, the cash flow statement:
"Payments to acquire player registrations - £6.4m"
"Receipts from the sale of player registrations - £1.8m"
So, to my mind, that seems clear that last season we sold Dykes AND Armstrong for 1.8m up front, and we spent 6.4m up front on the likes of Madsen, Celar, etc".
Firstly, that isn't what the club were happy to leak in terms of what we received for Dykes and Armstrong, so some porkies might have been told there to make everyone think someone was cooking. And secondly, the net position there is -£4.4m, not £4.3m, as stated on page 31 as the net outflow. Although, on page 31 it says "2024", when, yes, it was the summer of 2024, but it was in the 2025 accounts (2024-2025, ending 31st May 2025). Equally, on page 28 a few rows above, it says "profit on player registrations was -£2.26m"...but that is not 6.4m - 1.8m (-4.3m). So I don't quite understand how we're accounting for everything here on first glance.
In terms of what is being reported for fans, it comes from page 31, where it provides us the net inflow/outflow, we know that our net spend position on players across the two seasons is:
Summer 2025: 1.5m + 2.4m (but this does not reference Ronnie Edwards)
Summer 2024: 4.3m + 1.6m
This is where the rounded £10m is being reported from.
BUT you have to add Ronnie Edwards: 4.5m
= 14.4m NET SPEND INCLUSIVE OF THE EZE MONEY over the last 2 years, through to today.
So, whatever you think we brought in for Eze, Kelman, and the £1.8m we received for Dykes and Armstrong (as per p. 28), we have spent £14.4m more than that. This leads me to think we didn't get £3.5m for Kelman. If we did, assume Eze at 6m, Kelman at 3.5m and 1.8m for Dykes & Armstrong equals 10.3m, meaning if we had a net outflow of 14.4m, we've spend £25.4m over the last two seasons.
£25.4 MILLION SPENT. And over 2 seasons. 2 seasons ago we finished on 56 points under Marti Cifuentes, beating Leeds 4-0 at home, with a much lower wage bill, lower operating costs. Since then, we have basically spent a lot of money, increased our wage bill, increased our losses, and are on course for, what? 4 more points this season. That is not progress.
We need some big player sales this summer to adhere to PSR next season (26-27), assuming we sail close to the wind but meet it this season, otherwise we're in for a points deduction in the 27-28 season, for breaching next year.
FWIW, with the disallowable costs, and the amount increasing to £41m over 3 rolling years, i think we'll scoot in again this season...just. But we'll be screwed for next season's accounts without a big sale or two this summer. |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:07 - Feb 18 with 1492 views | JamesB1979 |
| Club Accounts on 11:01 - Feb 18 by lassel |
Unrealised add-ons are a non-cash item but are considered at point of acquisition. |
Thanks. Thats why best to look at the cashflow I think. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:12 - Feb 18 with 1438 views | KensalT |
| Club Accounts on 08:05 - Feb 18 by Northernr |
And let's see what you won for this spend...
Madsen, Celar, Varane, Esquerdinha, Bennie, Morrison.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
No love for Hevertton Santos?
Don't answer that :-)
He might not have cost much but he was Nourry's first signing. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:14 - Feb 18 with 1420 views | mart_Goblin |
| Club Accounts on 09:52 - Feb 18 by Beckenhamhoop |
https://footballleagueworld.co
I’m not sure what Capology uses to estimate these wages or if it’s just random figures for clickbait. IF the figures are true its no wonder Kolli’s Dad is Mr Angry. [Post edited 18 Feb 9:54]
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I don’t know if there is any truth in these figures at all.
But if so , Ilias and his agent can’t be happy .
Saito on 3 to 4 times his wage ??
Forgive a plain, middle aged meat and potatoes football fan who loves his team and accounting isn’t something I understand too much or care to in truth, but in total layman’s terms , after someone mentioning points deductions next season (really?), is the basic long and short of it that we need to sell this summer, and once again start throwing things over board to balance financial issues ?
So thats freebies, injury prone players and big risk inexperience coming in, if anybody at all in the near future then ?
Is that right?
Can’t wait for more of the last 15 years . |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:15 - Feb 18 with 1409 views | TheChef |
| Club Accounts on 11:14 - Feb 18 by mart_Goblin |
I don’t know if there is any truth in these figures at all.
But if so , Ilias and his agent can’t be happy .
Saito on 3 to 4 times his wage ??
Forgive a plain, middle aged meat and potatoes football fan who loves his team and accounting isn’t something I understand too much or care to in truth, but in total layman’s terms , after someone mentioning points deductions next season (really?), is the basic long and short of it that we need to sell this summer, and once again start throwing things over board to balance financial issues ?
So thats freebies, injury prone players and big risk inexperience coming in, if anybody at all in the near future then ?
Is that right?
Can’t wait for more of the last 15 years . |
Anything on that footballleagueworld site is total nonsense, as far as I can see. |  |
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| Club Accounts on 11:19 - Feb 18 with 1377 views | Hunterhoop |
| Club Accounts on 09:55 - Feb 18 by GaryBannister86 |
So am I right in saying, especially after the Saito splurge, that the Ronnie Edwards signing is one heck of a gamble? |
Absolutely.
Fundamentally, if we assume (based on the last few years) that there is c. 6m of disallowable costs each season (crude estimate):
We lost:
£13.5m in 2023/24 - but for PSR, call is 7.5m
£20m in 2024/25 - for PSR call it 14m
£?? in 2025/26 - for PSR it needs to be <£20m. Guess it'll be £15m-£20m, as can't see our losses reducing this season.
Whilst I would expect our operating losses to increase this season on last (due to increased wages with all the player signings and few exits), I think we'll comfortably come in under the rolling PSR cap of £41m losses over this 3 year period. So no issues yet...
BUT looking ahead to the 2026/27 season, that 7.5m loss (the Ainsworth, Cifuentes season, when our wage bill was very low) rolls out. Suddenly, we'll need to, next season, only be losing <£10m during it in order to comply with PSR. That will be incredibly difficult to do from this season's likely numbers ((which we won't find out for 12 months))without some significant net player sales this summer.
If we don't reduce wages/achieve some big player sale income, we'll breach next season (26/27). BUT this won't come to light until our accounts are published for that 26/27 season in February 2028....which means it's the 2027/2028 season we're liable for a points deduction if we have breached...I think.
This has been my point for a while. Nourry is gambling with the club's future with the trolley dash of his these last two seasons. It doesn't cause us to breach last season or this season because he had the very prudent Ainsworth/Cifuentes season the year before to help with the rolling 3 year cap. But, if he doesn't sell players for big money soon, we'll breach next season and get a points deduction the year after. And we'll be watching a much worse side on the pitch. It's fiscally irresponsible without a big sale soon. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:20 - Feb 18 with 1367 views | Rangersw12 |
So Millwall , Coventry and Preston have a lower wage bill .
Can we stop this narrative that we are doing well , we are massively underperforming again . [Post edited 18 Feb 11:25]
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| Club Accounts on 11:21 - Feb 18 with 1347 views | PlanetHonneywood |
What would be handy is a simple number from the bean counters, on the sliding scale below:
#1 being, pwaper fcukin' fcuked to #10, it's all peachy, Eze's coming home, buy a new stadium with the loose change.
Asking for a friend. Ta. |  |
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| Club Accounts on 11:23 - Feb 18 with 1319 views | Hunterhoop |
I want to see Simon's assessment of it all to be totally sure. And the last couple of year's his assessment has broadly aligned but thankfully amended my fag packet maths to put us in a slightly better position than I had estimated.
But, in answer to your question, yes. I cannot see how we can't ensure we comply with PSR in the 2026/27 season (accounts to be released in Feb 2028) without some big player sales this summer or in Jan 2027.
Even if our losses are the same this current season (surely they will increase - we'll find out in 12 months), we'll still need to reduce them notably for next season. That is only materially possible through player sales. And if we want to actually sign anyone new, we'll need some significant player sales. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:24 - Feb 18 with 1304 views | loftus77 |
| Club Accounts on 11:21 - Feb 18 by PlanetHonneywood |
What would be handy is a simple number from the bean counters, on the sliding scale below:
#1 being, pwaper fcukin' fcuked to #10, it's all peachy, Eze's coming home, buy a new stadium with the loose change.
Asking for a friend. Ta. |
I suspect somewhere between #2 and #3. But I'm no accountant. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:29 - Feb 18 with 1265 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Club Accounts on 11:23 - Feb 18 by Hunterhoop |
I want to see Simon's assessment of it all to be totally sure. And the last couple of year's his assessment has broadly aligned but thankfully amended my fag packet maths to put us in a slightly better position than I had estimated.
But, in answer to your question, yes. I cannot see how we can't ensure we comply with PSR in the 2026/27 season (accounts to be released in Feb 2028) without some big player sales this summer or in Jan 2027.
Even if our losses are the same this current season (surely they will increase - we'll find out in 12 months), we'll still need to reduce them notably for next season. That is only materially possible through player sales. And if we want to actually sign anyone new, we'll need some significant player sales. |
If that's true, Hunter (and I suspect it is) then the Edwards signing in particular is an absolute disgrace. A position where we really didn't need it.
Nothing against Ronnie, but - this needs explaining? |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:43 - Feb 18 with 1163 views | wombat |
| Club Accounts on 11:19 - Feb 18 by Hunterhoop |
Absolutely.
Fundamentally, if we assume (based on the last few years) that there is c. 6m of disallowable costs each season (crude estimate):
We lost:
£13.5m in 2023/24 - but for PSR, call is 7.5m
£20m in 2024/25 - for PSR call it 14m
£?? in 2025/26 - for PSR it needs to be <£20m. Guess it'll be £15m-£20m, as can't see our losses reducing this season.
Whilst I would expect our operating losses to increase this season on last (due to increased wages with all the player signings and few exits), I think we'll comfortably come in under the rolling PSR cap of £41m losses over this 3 year period. So no issues yet...
BUT looking ahead to the 2026/27 season, that 7.5m loss (the Ainsworth, Cifuentes season, when our wage bill was very low) rolls out. Suddenly, we'll need to, next season, only be losing <£10m during it in order to comply with PSR. That will be incredibly difficult to do from this season's likely numbers ((which we won't find out for 12 months))without some significant net player sales this summer.
If we don't reduce wages/achieve some big player sale income, we'll breach next season (26/27). BUT this won't come to light until our accounts are published for that 26/27 season in February 2028....which means it's the 2027/2028 season we're liable for a points deduction if we have breached...I think.
This has been my point for a while. Nourry is gambling with the club's future with the trolley dash of his these last two seasons. It doesn't cause us to breach last season or this season because he had the very prudent Ainsworth/Cifuentes season the year before to help with the rolling 3 year cap. But, if he doesn't sell players for big money soon, we'll breach next season and get a points deduction the year after. And we'll be watching a much worse side on the pitch. It's fiscally irresponsible without a big sale soon. |
ill leave the people who know how to read the accts to let me know whats going on but to me that reads nourry isnt cooking ? and a fire sale is coming this summer just to avoid a points deduction ? unless we sell varanneas a minimum and prob burrell or madson for some wiggle room | |
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| Club Accounts on 11:47 - Feb 18 with 1123 views | dmm |
| Club Accounts on 11:29 - Feb 18 by GaryBannister86 |
If that's true, Hunter (and I suspect it is) then the Edwards signing in particular is an absolute disgrace. A position where we really didn't need it.
Nothing against Ronnie, but - this needs explaining? |
Perhaps selling Ronnie on for a big fee in 12 months time would explain it? |  | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:48 - Feb 18 with 1101 views | Rangersw12 |
| Club Accounts on 11:43 - Feb 18 by wombat |
ill leave the people who know how to read the accts to let me know whats going on but to me that reads nourry isnt cooking ? and a fire sale is coming this summer just to avoid a points deduction ? unless we sell varanneas a minimum and prob burrell or madson for some wiggle room |
Which makes the last few games of the season really important
We need to kick on and finish top 10 to get the maximum amount for our assets. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:51 - Feb 18 with 1075 views | wombat |
| Club Accounts on 11:29 - Feb 18 by GaryBannister86 |
If that's true, Hunter (and I suspect it is) then the Edwards signing in particular is an absolute disgrace. A position where we really didn't need it.
Nothing against Ronnie, but - this needs explaining? |
To me its pretty simple , yes edwards is a good player and was excellent for us while on loan and like saito both were signed because the fans like them and it takes pressure of whats actualy going on behind the scenes the coach wouldnt had a clue who they was just to be told right off you go and make them better , dont know on edwards as hes beenn players as a right back , saito has gone backwards , same as the much promoted dev players coming in esp the lads from australia big stories on how lucky we are to get them etc etc , its all good PR and keeps the fans happy . but its ok they arent costing us much in the way of wages so dosnt matter if they dont succeed , well it does becuase with the club remit being buy cheap and sell big , if the player isnt much good as a youth player in some respects then the chances of us making millions esp when they are liekly to come into a struggling side and not shine makes the model dead before it starts . | |
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| Club Accounts on 11:53 - Feb 18 with 1060 views | Hunterhoop |
| Club Accounts on 11:43 - Feb 18 by wombat |
ill leave the people who know how to read the accts to let me know whats going on but to me that reads nourry isnt cooking ? and a fire sale is coming this summer just to avoid a points deduction ? unless we sell varanneas a minimum and prob burrell or madson for some wiggle room |
Again, I'm estimating (guessing!) what this season's (25/26) losses are. Based on the p.31 post year end player trading summary, it's a net spend of 4m plus 4.5m for Edwards, not included. Now, I know that these fees are amortised, but so were last season's. And the net outflow last season on player trading was 6m (4.3m plus 1.66m) according top p.31.
Given these numbers include the Eze money, this year's accounts includes the increased TV revenue (perhaps it increases further), and taking the reasonable assumption that our wage bill hasn't decreased this season vs last season...I think it's unlikely the overall £20m loss reduces.
That takes us to a rolling 3 year loss of 54m before disallowable. Given the previous rolling loss was 58m and we didn't breach, it's safe to say there are c. £6m ish of disallowable every year. So, we're fine as things stand this season.
But my concern is next season. I can't see how we won't be very very tight/breaching in the 2026/27 season without a sold net income from transfers of ~5m this summer. The accounts for next year won't be published until February 2028. I think we have to make the EFL aware if we have breached at some point before that, but, ultimately, without decent net player sales this summer, I struggle to see how we don't breach next season and get a (small) points deduction in the 2027/28 season. It will likely be small due to size of breach. Could only be 3 points, if it makes you feel better.
The wider point is this player trading model so far is only losing money, a lot of money. At some point your bets have to come in. You have to sell someone/several players for a lot more money...and you can't wait 3 years to start doing that. It is unsustainable.
It's also worth pointing out too that without the Eze income, we probably breach this season, and would certainly breach next season (without a whopper of a sale).
So, Nourry has been very lucky that the previous regime (who rarely receive any credit) have bailed him out with the adds ons negotiated into the Eze deal with Palace. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:57 - Feb 18 with 1031 views | wombat |
| Club Accounts on 11:48 - Feb 18 by Rangersw12 |
Which makes the last few games of the season really important
We need to kick on and finish top 10 to get the maximum amount for our assets. |
teams wont be playing top dollar for players who decied not to be slightly less toss in the last 10 games , if that was the case we would have been offered 10 million for mathew rose many years ago , even if we somehow finish 15th the club will be shotuing it as a huge sucess and us moving forward , same as they did recently when we sold just over 1k season tickers till the end of the season , bet a few are regretting that impulse buy right now ! | |
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| Club Accounts on 11:58 - Feb 18 with 1028 views | QPRSam |
| Club Accounts on 11:20 - Feb 18 by Rangersw12 |
So Millwall , Coventry and Preston have a lower wage bill .
Can we stop this narrative that we are doing well , we are massively underperforming again . [Post edited 18 Feb 11:25]
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The accounts are for last season, 14th on wages, finished 15th. I guess you can claim that's underperforming but we're about where we should be right? | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:58 - Feb 18 with 1024 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Club Accounts on 11:47 - Feb 18 by dmm |
Perhaps selling Ronnie on for a big fee in 12 months time would explain it? |
Well, yes, but that is one heck of a gamble, isn't it? Like the Saito signing, as fun as they are as fans it doesn't make any cold, hard sense. What am I missing? We already had lots of small wingers, we already had lots of centre backs. And if we are buying to sell, that's great but we have to take into account when we are reaching our spending limit and that it may not work / they may get an ACL? Wouldn't the safer decision be to get Liam Morrison fit and firing and then if need be, sell him for a profit?
This is me with a business head on, not as a fan. But I just don't really understand how this works within a sensible plan. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 11:59 - Feb 18 with 1021 views | Hunterhoop |
| Club Accounts on 11:47 - Feb 18 by dmm |
Perhaps selling Ronnie on for a big fee in 12 months time would explain it? |
Absolutely. That would justify that signing if we can sell him for a big fee in Jan 2027. Leave it to the summer of 2027 and it's too late.
Unless you can sell someone else this summer (or Jan 2027) for serious money.
Psychologically, if you're looking at the numbers in Jan and thinking, "I can sign Ronnie now, but I need to sell him in 12 months time for big money OR have net player sales of c. 5m in the summer, otherwise we can't afford him", and you go ahead and sign him anyway...that is quite a big gamble, isn't it? Great if he can execute that?
This is part of the reason I posted a while back about "who" can be sold this summer for decent money? Burrell was probably the one lined up but with his bad hamstring injury, i doubt anyone will take that punt. Varane? form, injury, etc? Madsen? Perhaps. I doubt we'll make any profit on Kone, Saito, etc, yet.
You could take the approach of sell Field and Dembele for say, £4-5m (maybe?!) in total and sign no one. Run with the squad you have. Doesn't fill me with confidence we'll improve, mind. | | | |
| Club Accounts on 12:01 - Feb 18 with 1008 views | Hunterhoop |
| Club Accounts on 11:58 - Feb 18 by QPRSam |
The accounts are for last season, 14th on wages, finished 15th. I guess you can claim that's underperforming but we're about where we should be right? |
Last season, yes. To paraphrase Clive, Cifuentes parred the course.
We've spent more this season. The only reason the losses won't look a lot worse is the Eze money (a gift from the previous regime). But wages have likely increased this season.
So, expectations are Stephan has us finish higher, no? | | | |
| Club Accounts on 12:07 - Feb 18 with 962 views | QPRSam |
| Club Accounts on 12:01 - Feb 18 by Hunterhoop |
Last season, yes. To paraphrase Clive, Cifuentes parred the course.
We've spent more this season. The only reason the losses won't look a lot worse is the Eze money (a gift from the previous regime). But wages have likely increased this season.
So, expectations are Stephan has us finish higher, no? |
We've also shipped a lot wage off the bill (Paal, Andersen, Frey, Fox, Colback, Celar, Field, Morrison, Santos - that's also assuming the loan sales have wages covered). I would've assumed the number has decreased or stayed about the same, maybe I'm wrong | | | |
| Club Accounts on 12:10 - Feb 18 with 921 views | Rangersw12 |
| Club Accounts on 11:58 - Feb 18 by QPRSam |
The accounts are for last season, 14th on wages, finished 15th. I guess you can claim that's underperforming but we're about where we should be right? |
Not compared to the clubs mentioned .
Who are all similar sized clubs and in Millwall we are bigger than them . Yet every year they finish above us and all we do is throw our hands up and say we are at the right level .
As I've say every year every part of the club should be performing better | | | |
| Club Accounts on 12:10 - Feb 18 with 916 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Club Accounts on 11:24 - Feb 18 by loftus77 |
I suspect somewhere between #2 and #3. But I'm no accountant. |
Beautifully nutshelled.
So, not totally fcuked, but....
Which brings me to raise this question: why, oh effing why, do we not try a bit harder in the cups? | |
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