| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:32 - Jun 20 with 2963 views | Stainrod |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 12:13 - Jun 20 by Hunterhoop |
Neither do I. I wouldn’t be selling Sam Field. I’d be selling Varane. But there we go.
But there hasn’t been steady progress.
25/26: 15th / 58 pts / GD -12
24/25: 15th / 56 pts / GD -10
23/24: 18th / 56 pts / GD -11
We’ve improved 2pts in the last two seasons with a GD one worse. It’s 3 near identical seasons on paper. Last season we all saw the promise of better.
Well, surely now is the season we realise that?! Why not? Why shouldn’t it. Top 10 is just 5 places in a League of 24! As you say Hull went from well below us to 6th and promotion. Millwall have gone past us up the table in the last two seasons
Surely, this is the season we should expect proper progress? That has to be the expectation and target. If not now, when? We need to have some standards.
Would I be doing it how the current leadership are? No. But they might be correct. It’s not unreasonable to expect to see some evidence of that in points and league position after 3 seasons and lots of spending… |
Who would you sell Varane too? |  | |  |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:52 - Jun 20 with 2877 views | Hunterhoop |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:14 - Jun 20 by KensalT |
It doesn't look good when you set it out like that.
But be fair Hunter, you are cherry picking your data points.
Let's start with Hull and Millwall.
I think we all now know that Hull overspent to get promotion last season. It has been widely reported that they have to find £6m in player sales before the end of the month to avoid a points deduction. They gambled and got lucky. Had they not got promoted they would be in deep trouble now. And I don't think anyone wants us to be in that position again.
Millwall have been playing the same steady development game as us for quite some time. They've just been doing it better than us. They had a mis-step in 23/24 when they appointed Joe Edwards but they still finished above us that season thanks to a late surge under Neil Harris. A lot of people tipped Wawll for the playoffs last season and they've had a few near misses in the last six or seven years. In fact I can't remember the last time we finished above Wawll. I certainly don't expect us to do so next season.
23-26 does look like groundhog day. But there is some context to that.
21/22 was the Warburton 'all-in' season. We left ourselves in a deep hole financially after that and needed to steady the ship.
22/23 Was the Beale/Critchley/Ainsworth season. That was a car crash and it's a miracle we didn't go down.
For me 22/23 is the baseline against which we should measure our progress.
We made a terrible start to 23/24 and again looked like relegation fodder.
Appointing Marti Cifuentes was a big step forward. It wasn't always pretty but he pulled us out of trouble in 23/24 and had us looking like a solid Championship team in 24/25.
Then we parted ways with Marti in controversial circumstances, which for me at least was very disappointing.
Julien Stephan then came in for his first season in English football and some sizeable shoes to fill. If you want to judge him just on 15th place and 58 points then fair enough it does look like no progress has been made, But if you take into account our chronic injury problems, the collapse in form in the final third of the season, and the fact that for the first time in decades we have two strikers who really look the business at this level then I think you can say that 15th was a false position for us and we should have done better.
Fundamentally a lot of people are going to look at our league position and points total over the last three seasons and agree with you that we aren't making progress. And you're right, the league table doesn't lie. But underneath all that I think the trend is upwards. We're not going into next season worrying about relegation. Instead we're asking ourselves why can't this be our season for the playoffs.
For me it is too soon and when you look at what we're up against (West Ham, Wolves, Burnley, Millwall, Boro, Southampton, Sheffield United, Norwich, Wrexham, Birmingham). It's difficult to see how we finish in the top 8 against that lot.
Luckily for us the game isn't played on paper. Some of those clubs I listed might struggle. And we might unearth another Kone or Burrell. Anything can happen. But I still think hanging on to Cook and Field for at least one more season would have greatly helped us and they will be hard to replace. [Post edited 20 Jun 13:20]
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All that is fair, mate.
But go back even further and we finished 9th under Warburton before any gambling.
We’ve spent over a decade at this level post relegation. This will be our 12th season. We’ve basically spent the entire time in the bottom half, bar two seasons, never finishing higher than 9th with a mean position of 15th/16th, I think.
Progress involves stepping beyond that. It has to. Progress is not the promise of progress at some point further down the line.
This leadership has had no real financial hardship to face like all but one (the gamble year) of the previous 9 seasons. We’ve invested. You could argue, invested well. We haven sold anyone for big bucks or made any profit (yet) on those we’ve invested in, so they’re still here and available. We have two good strikers, lots of wide attacking options, a big money centre half. They’ve made their big bets…It’s time to start seeing a return…
It’ll be accountability avoidance if the club and fans start pushing a narrative that this is a “transitional” year. It’s not. |  | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 14:21 - Jun 20 with 2851 views | KensalT |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:52 - Jun 20 by Hunterhoop |
All that is fair, mate.
But go back even further and we finished 9th under Warburton before any gambling.
We’ve spent over a decade at this level post relegation. This will be our 12th season. We’ve basically spent the entire time in the bottom half, bar two seasons, never finishing higher than 9th with a mean position of 15th/16th, I think.
Progress involves stepping beyond that. It has to. Progress is not the promise of progress at some point further down the line.
This leadership has had no real financial hardship to face like all but one (the gamble year) of the previous 9 seasons. We’ve invested. You could argue, invested well. We haven sold anyone for big bucks or made any profit (yet) on those we’ve invested in, so they’re still here and available. We have two good strikers, lots of wide attacking options, a big money centre half. They’ve made their big bets…It’s time to start seeing a return…
It’ll be accountability avoidance if the club and fans start pushing a narrative that this is a “transitional” year. It’s not. |
I agree with most of that.
Warburton getting us to 9th was an incredible performance.
I guess where I differ from you is that I think we are on a long term process, so the transition is a slow steady one rather than something revolutionary.
If you go back to what I said about Millwall, they have been knocking on the door of the playoffs for quite some time.
And if you go further back to Brighton and Brentford who are the poster boys for this development model, they both took quite a few seasons to make the final step up and had quite a few near misses along the way.
So it can be done but it takes time and there are no shortcuts.
I suppose the other thing you can say for Brighton, Brentford, and Millwall is that they have very smart hands-on owners who make good appointments to executive positions.
I'm always reluctant to criticise our owners when they have stuck with us, owned their mistakes, and kept the lights on from their own pockets but we really need someone at board level who can devote a large part of their time to running the club and being seen around the place more often than just match days. [Post edited 20 Jun 14:33]
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| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 15:52 - Jun 20 with 2739 views | gazza1 |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:19 - Jun 20 by QPR_John |
My point is we would have had a better defence (could not have been much worse) with Field in the side. Just my opinion. |
You are entitled to your opinion but Field was & is not a LB. Full backs have many responsibilities........Personally, I thought his overall game at LB was quite poor, not much better than a 4/10 mark at best. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 18:04 - Jun 20 with 2658 views | Stainrod |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:52 - Jun 20 by Hunterhoop |
All that is fair, mate.
But go back even further and we finished 9th under Warburton before any gambling.
We’ve spent over a decade at this level post relegation. This will be our 12th season. We’ve basically spent the entire time in the bottom half, bar two seasons, never finishing higher than 9th with a mean position of 15th/16th, I think.
Progress involves stepping beyond that. It has to. Progress is not the promise of progress at some point further down the line.
This leadership has had no real financial hardship to face like all but one (the gamble year) of the previous 9 seasons. We’ve invested. You could argue, invested well. We haven sold anyone for big bucks or made any profit (yet) on those we’ve invested in, so they’re still here and available. We have two good strikers, lots of wide attacking options, a big money centre half. They’ve made their big bets…It’s time to start seeing a return…
It’ll be accountability avoidance if the club and fans start pushing a narrative that this is a “transitional” year. It’s not. |
Other clubs also improving - we can’t judge QPR in isolation. We are about the right place relative to budget, tedious tho that is.
Without so many injuries we probably would have finished significantly higher (albeit I accept there are question marks over our fitness regime and the accountability of its key figures).
It’s fine to dislike Nourry and all his works, of course. But SOME posts on this site (am sure this is not the case with you) can sometimes SEEM there is almost a greater desire to see this current regime fail to afford a “told you so moment” than there is a desire to QPR succeed.
As Clive articulated pretty well I thought, there are cautious reasons to be optimistic. My own view - is that we try to face the coming season with that same sense of qualified hope rather than conducting an inquest before the patient has died. We all get the frustrations but endlessly repeating them doesn’t get us any closer to finding an alternative strategy to succeed . | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 18:28 - Jun 20 with 2623 views | QPR_John |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 15:52 - Jun 20 by gazza1 |
You are entitled to your opinion but Field was & is not a LB. Full backs have many responsibilities........Personally, I thought his overall game at LB was quite poor, not much better than a 4/10 mark at best. |
Never said Field was a full back. But better than we had last season sitting in front of the back four | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 20:10 - Jun 20 with 2555 views | Hunterhoop |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 18:04 - Jun 20 by Stainrod |
Other clubs also improving - we can’t judge QPR in isolation. We are about the right place relative to budget, tedious tho that is.
Without so many injuries we probably would have finished significantly higher (albeit I accept there are question marks over our fitness regime and the accountability of its key figures).
It’s fine to dislike Nourry and all his works, of course. But SOME posts on this site (am sure this is not the case with you) can sometimes SEEM there is almost a greater desire to see this current regime fail to afford a “told you so moment” than there is a desire to QPR succeed.
As Clive articulated pretty well I thought, there are cautious reasons to be optimistic. My own view - is that we try to face the coming season with that same sense of qualified hope rather than conducting an inquest before the patient has died. We all get the frustrations but endlessly repeating them doesn’t get us any closer to finding an alternative strategy to succeed . |
Again, very fair.
If it’s not clear already, I want the club to succeed. And with Nourry here, in his current roles, that means I need him to succeed.
I think he’s a chancer and a charlatan though. I’m sorry, but I do. And that is why I am so hot on accountability. I think he’s actively avoiding it. No serious, high performing organisation doesn’t set targets which all employees are aware of. They certainly communicate a vision, at the minimum, if not the hard year to year objectives. Senior execs need to be held to account. They should relish it.
I think the way the club’s leadership have spoken for over 12 months now, and a narrative creeping into the social media accounts who always defend the leadership, is one which is to avoid accountability. When I hear leadership talk like that, it’s a big red flag for me.
Football is a competitive sport. You have to have ambition. You should have a vision. That should translate into annual targets. And there should be accountability.
If I’m wrong - and I could well be - having clear, communicated objectives, and accountability shouldn’t be of any concern to the leadership. And we as fans should demand it. It’s our football club. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 22:10 - Jun 20 with 2443 views | numptydumpty |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 20:10 - Jun 20 by Hunterhoop |
Again, very fair.
If it’s not clear already, I want the club to succeed. And with Nourry here, in his current roles, that means I need him to succeed.
I think he’s a chancer and a charlatan though. I’m sorry, but I do. And that is why I am so hot on accountability. I think he’s actively avoiding it. No serious, high performing organisation doesn’t set targets which all employees are aware of. They certainly communicate a vision, at the minimum, if not the hard year to year objectives. Senior execs need to be held to account. They should relish it.
I think the way the club’s leadership have spoken for over 12 months now, and a narrative creeping into the social media accounts who always defend the leadership, is one which is to avoid accountability. When I hear leadership talk like that, it’s a big red flag for me.
Football is a competitive sport. You have to have ambition. You should have a vision. That should translate into annual targets. And there should be accountability.
If I’m wrong - and I could well be - having clear, communicated objectives, and accountability shouldn’t be of any concern to the leadership. And we as fans should demand it. It’s our football club. |
Its our football club but thankfully we dont make the difficult decisions.
Fair enough if you slightly wary of the current regime. Personally, I think it could just work.There has been some progress.
Unfortunately, as is ever thus with QPR, this season could be the one.
Yes Nourry can give off Kier Starmer vibes, but think there is some meat on the bone. I think he has the next two seasons to make a difference.
I dont consider himself to be a chancer myself. I think he definitely is a trier, he will work hard, he has hopes that his systems and philosophies can come good and he has the opportunities to prove the doubters wrong.
As a club, we are far from the easy option to be successful. Its 50/50 for me, but if he does fail over the two seasons, at worst i still see us as a championship club so personally am happy to give the guy his opportunity.
Who knows !!! |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:33 - Jun 20 with 2410 views | numptydumpty |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 20:10 - Jun 20 by Hunterhoop |
Again, very fair.
If it’s not clear already, I want the club to succeed. And with Nourry here, in his current roles, that means I need him to succeed.
I think he’s a chancer and a charlatan though. I’m sorry, but I do. And that is why I am so hot on accountability. I think he’s actively avoiding it. No serious, high performing organisation doesn’t set targets which all employees are aware of. They certainly communicate a vision, at the minimum, if not the hard year to year objectives. Senior execs need to be held to account. They should relish it.
I think the way the club’s leadership have spoken for over 12 months now, and a narrative creeping into the social media accounts who always defend the leadership, is one which is to avoid accountability. When I hear leadership talk like that, it’s a big red flag for me.
Football is a competitive sport. You have to have ambition. You should have a vision. That should translate into annual targets. And there should be accountability.
If I’m wrong - and I could well be - having clear, communicated objectives, and accountability shouldn’t be of any concern to the leadership. And we as fans should demand it. It’s our football club. |
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| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 23:34 - Jun 20 with 2338 views | Stainrod |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 20:10 - Jun 20 by Hunterhoop |
Again, very fair.
If it’s not clear already, I want the club to succeed. And with Nourry here, in his current roles, that means I need him to succeed.
I think he’s a chancer and a charlatan though. I’m sorry, but I do. And that is why I am so hot on accountability. I think he’s actively avoiding it. No serious, high performing organisation doesn’t set targets which all employees are aware of. They certainly communicate a vision, at the minimum, if not the hard year to year objectives. Senior execs need to be held to account. They should relish it.
I think the way the club’s leadership have spoken for over 12 months now, and a narrative creeping into the social media accounts who always defend the leadership, is one which is to avoid accountability. When I hear leadership talk like that, it’s a big red flag for me.
Football is a competitive sport. You have to have ambition. You should have a vision. That should translate into annual targets. And there should be accountability.
If I’m wrong - and I could well be - having clear, communicated objectives, and accountability shouldn’t be of any concern to the leadership. And we as fans should demand it. It’s our football club. |
Appreciate the balanced response.
However, you more or less admit your opposition is more personal / suspicious of what Nourry MIGHT do. I just don’t see that as a solid enough basis to be quite so vociferous.
Re publicly laid out ambitions: I pose this as a genuine question, but how many championship clubs (bar parachute clubs who have a massive advantage) have already stated that they expect promotion this year? Stand to be corrected but I doubt there are many; arguably they would simply be adding pressure on the players as well as the management.
As for progress, I get that league position year on year is an obvious yardstick and naturally I have to concede we have made no progress there.
But unlike the Premiership there aren’t huge rewards for finishing, say, 9th as opposed to 16th.
So league position only really makes a material difference if you achieve promotion.
Therefore factors like lowering the average age of the squad and acquiring players some of whom MIGHT go for big money is arguably more important, as that is what helps build a sustainable promotion push. Much as I loved Warbs, finishing 9th or 11th or whatever with a bunch of loans and expensive aged oldies with no resale value was ultimately worthless. There was no legacy to build on there.
And now? Even Esquire - who looks way off being a match ready Championship fullback - is reportedly attracting transfer interest. Nourry is yet to secure the big ticket sale, it is true. But consistently now even our cast offs are often attracting fees. It’s not enough, I concede, but if you are going to criticise pretty remorselessly surely we should at least acknowledge a few green shoots of progress? | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 00:19 - Jun 21 with 2276 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 11:20 - Jun 20 by KensalT |
But was it Nourry saying this is the season to judge?
If it was then he has made a rod for his back by stripping the squad of solid Championship experience.
Hull didn't look anything special last season but they had five outfield players older than anything we've currently got playing over 2,000 minutes last season. John Egan and Matt Crooks are both the 'wrong' side of 30.
Semi Ajayi and John Lundstram are both 31 and they both played over 1,500 minutes.
There's no substitute for experience and we've been tossing all ours overboard. |
I can imagine the moaning on here if we’d offered Cook and Hayden nice new contracts. |  | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 12:52 - Jun 21 with 1898 views | oldchap |
Sad to see Sam Field go. Hard working honest player who provided solid protection to the defence and showed albeit infrequently strong forward play and some great goals. I felt if he perhaps lacked a little self belief .I wish he was staying but equally I fully understand the business case behind letting him leave. The fee received is unlikely to be higher in the next two windows so the time is probably right.
The piece on the official website was an improvement on some media releases and hopefully a sign of more thoughtful style to come. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:23 - Jun 21 with 1858 views | Hunterhoop |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 23:34 - Jun 20 by Stainrod |
Appreciate the balanced response.
However, you more or less admit your opposition is more personal / suspicious of what Nourry MIGHT do. I just don’t see that as a solid enough basis to be quite so vociferous.
Re publicly laid out ambitions: I pose this as a genuine question, but how many championship clubs (bar parachute clubs who have a massive advantage) have already stated that they expect promotion this year? Stand to be corrected but I doubt there are many; arguably they would simply be adding pressure on the players as well as the management.
As for progress, I get that league position year on year is an obvious yardstick and naturally I have to concede we have made no progress there.
But unlike the Premiership there aren’t huge rewards for finishing, say, 9th as opposed to 16th.
So league position only really makes a material difference if you achieve promotion.
Therefore factors like lowering the average age of the squad and acquiring players some of whom MIGHT go for big money is arguably more important, as that is what helps build a sustainable promotion push. Much as I loved Warbs, finishing 9th or 11th or whatever with a bunch of loans and expensive aged oldies with no resale value was ultimately worthless. There was no legacy to build on there.
And now? Even Esquire - who looks way off being a match ready Championship fullback - is reportedly attracting transfer interest. Nourry is yet to secure the big ticket sale, it is true. But consistently now even our cast offs are often attracting fees. It’s not enough, I concede, but if you are going to criticise pretty remorselessly surely we should at least acknowledge a few green shoots of progress? |
My view about him as a person is not based on what he might do, stainrod, it is based on what he has done and said over the last 2.5 years. Some of this is public, and some of this is not. I have alluded to much of it over the years on here. I don’t see the value of going through it all again, but it is based on past words and actions not what he might do in future.
There have been some green shoots. Some signings look to be successes and he’s negotiated some fees. But worth noting the players he obtained fees for were brought in by prior leadership, and the Eze add on income negotiated by prior leadership.
There are only two things to judge this leadership on. Are we moving up the league table and football pyramid? Are we becoming more sustainable financially?
After two seasons the answer is “no” to both. That is undeniable. We have not progressed in terms of points and league position, as you acknowledge. The accounts for the 24-25 season so increased losses on prior years, which won’t have reduced in 25/26 since we sold no one and spent the Eze add ons (Saito, Edwards, Obikwu).
Now, this season, this 3rd season, is one where I think I agree with you that the “green shoots” need to flourish. We could…We should be able to answer “yes” to BOTH those questions IF the signings to date have been good ones, he’s right to retain Ben Williams, right to bring in Stephan, etc.
So back to my original point. This is the year where judgement is entirely warranted. Accountability is a necessity, and we should be ambitious. If, after 3 full seasons, the answers remain “no” to both those questions then we should bring in alternative leadership. As fans, we should not see this as a “transitional” season or fall victim to being manipulated into thinking there should be no targets or accountability. Nourry was 26 when appointed with no credentials to be CEO and DOF of a 2nd tier football club. If 3.5 years later, there’s been no progress in terms of league position AND we’re making greater losses, surely that is failure?!
Hopefully, we do progress up the league table. Hopefully we are able to sell someone for big bucks, reinvest, and become stronger again. Truly, I want that. I genuinely think this squad with the investments Clive has referenced should be top 10, and could quite easily be top 8.
I just want accountability present. If this does happen you can be sure the club will be taking the credit and I will be cheering from the stands. If we fall short this season then someone needs to take the blame and walk. You can’t have it both ways. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:47 - Jun 21 with 1793 views | KensalT |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:23 - Jun 21 by Hunterhoop |
My view about him as a person is not based on what he might do, stainrod, it is based on what he has done and said over the last 2.5 years. Some of this is public, and some of this is not. I have alluded to much of it over the years on here. I don’t see the value of going through it all again, but it is based on past words and actions not what he might do in future.
There have been some green shoots. Some signings look to be successes and he’s negotiated some fees. But worth noting the players he obtained fees for were brought in by prior leadership, and the Eze add on income negotiated by prior leadership.
There are only two things to judge this leadership on. Are we moving up the league table and football pyramid? Are we becoming more sustainable financially?
After two seasons the answer is “no” to both. That is undeniable. We have not progressed in terms of points and league position, as you acknowledge. The accounts for the 24-25 season so increased losses on prior years, which won’t have reduced in 25/26 since we sold no one and spent the Eze add ons (Saito, Edwards, Obikwu).
Now, this season, this 3rd season, is one where I think I agree with you that the “green shoots” need to flourish. We could…We should be able to answer “yes” to BOTH those questions IF the signings to date have been good ones, he’s right to retain Ben Williams, right to bring in Stephan, etc.
So back to my original point. This is the year where judgement is entirely warranted. Accountability is a necessity, and we should be ambitious. If, after 3 full seasons, the answers remain “no” to both those questions then we should bring in alternative leadership. As fans, we should not see this as a “transitional” season or fall victim to being manipulated into thinking there should be no targets or accountability. Nourry was 26 when appointed with no credentials to be CEO and DOF of a 2nd tier football club. If 3.5 years later, there’s been no progress in terms of league position AND we’re making greater losses, surely that is failure?!
Hopefully, we do progress up the league table. Hopefully we are able to sell someone for big bucks, reinvest, and become stronger again. Truly, I want that. I genuinely think this squad with the investments Clive has referenced should be top 10, and could quite easily be top 8.
I just want accountability present. If this does happen you can be sure the club will be taking the credit and I will be cheering from the stands. If we fall short this season then someone needs to take the blame and walk. You can’t have it both ways. |
I agree with almost all of that.
The one bit I disagree with is the comment that progress next season 'might' justify the retention of Ben Williams by Christian Nourry.
Regardless of what BW's current job title is his background is in sports science and physical conditioning.
That's what we brought him in for.
We've had two consecutive seasons with large numbers of soft tissue injuries and players looking in poor condition throughout the season.
Dembele and Burrell are two players we might have considered cashing in on this summer but won't be able to now that both finished the season with lengthy injuries.
If we can't keep our players match fit and free of muscle injuries we are going to struggle to get a good return on the investments we have made on players in the last couple of years. And without profitable player sales the whole development model falls apart.
I know from your comments on other threads that you aren't a BW fan so maybe you didn't mean it the way I interpreted it, but I can't see any justification for continuing with BW. [Post edited 21 Jun 13:49]
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| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 14:20 - Jun 21 with 1743 views | Stainrod |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:23 - Jun 21 by Hunterhoop |
My view about him as a person is not based on what he might do, stainrod, it is based on what he has done and said over the last 2.5 years. Some of this is public, and some of this is not. I have alluded to much of it over the years on here. I don’t see the value of going through it all again, but it is based on past words and actions not what he might do in future.
There have been some green shoots. Some signings look to be successes and he’s negotiated some fees. But worth noting the players he obtained fees for were brought in by prior leadership, and the Eze add on income negotiated by prior leadership.
There are only two things to judge this leadership on. Are we moving up the league table and football pyramid? Are we becoming more sustainable financially?
After two seasons the answer is “no” to both. That is undeniable. We have not progressed in terms of points and league position, as you acknowledge. The accounts for the 24-25 season so increased losses on prior years, which won’t have reduced in 25/26 since we sold no one and spent the Eze add ons (Saito, Edwards, Obikwu).
Now, this season, this 3rd season, is one where I think I agree with you that the “green shoots” need to flourish. We could…We should be able to answer “yes” to BOTH those questions IF the signings to date have been good ones, he’s right to retain Ben Williams, right to bring in Stephan, etc.
So back to my original point. This is the year where judgement is entirely warranted. Accountability is a necessity, and we should be ambitious. If, after 3 full seasons, the answers remain “no” to both those questions then we should bring in alternative leadership. As fans, we should not see this as a “transitional” season or fall victim to being manipulated into thinking there should be no targets or accountability. Nourry was 26 when appointed with no credentials to be CEO and DOF of a 2nd tier football club. If 3.5 years later, there’s been no progress in terms of league position AND we’re making greater losses, surely that is failure?!
Hopefully, we do progress up the league table. Hopefully we are able to sell someone for big bucks, reinvest, and become stronger again. Truly, I want that. I genuinely think this squad with the investments Clive has referenced should be top 10, and could quite easily be top 8.
I just want accountability present. If this does happen you can be sure the club will be taking the credit and I will be cheering from the stands. If we fall short this season then someone needs to take the blame and walk. You can’t have it both ways. |
It seems we aren't so far apart mate in that you accept that this (not last) season is the one to judge him on. And that is fair. There needs to be signs of progress by May (though we might differ on how that is measured: arguably IMHO selling two players for £10m each would be more important on our long march back to the footballing big time than it is to finish, say, 9th).
All I would say is, given we accept this is the season we need to see tangible progress, and given the season is not even close to kicking off yet, lets dial down the criticism until next May.
If we are 16th then having seen no significant player sales (at least one player and preferably two going for £5m each, say) he will have some very tough questions to answer. And if we haven't developed a few gems and instead we have another injury plagued season with Ben Williams still calling the shots while chatting utter manure about it, then very likely he will need to face a lot more than questions. But lets wait till May for that inquest. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 16:01 - Jun 21 with 1661 views | Hunterhoop |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 14:20 - Jun 21 by Stainrod |
It seems we aren't so far apart mate in that you accept that this (not last) season is the one to judge him on. And that is fair. There needs to be signs of progress by May (though we might differ on how that is measured: arguably IMHO selling two players for £10m each would be more important on our long march back to the footballing big time than it is to finish, say, 9th).
All I would say is, given we accept this is the season we need to see tangible progress, and given the season is not even close to kicking off yet, lets dial down the criticism until next May.
If we are 16th then having seen no significant player sales (at least one player and preferably two going for £5m each, say) he will have some very tough questions to answer. And if we haven't developed a few gems and instead we have another injury plagued season with Ben Williams still calling the shots while chatting utter manure about it, then very likely he will need to face a lot more than questions. But lets wait till May for that inquest. |
Fair.
However, I’m a big believer in the “how” not just the “what”, so if we’re on track to achieve those two “Yes” answers to those two big questions re. Judgement, but the “how” he is leading is poor (think the Furlong sacking, or how the fans are treated, or if there are more provable lies, etc), then I reserve the right to criticise that.
The “how” he/we operate is still important. We’re not Chelsea. And it’s our club.
But, yes, this is coming the season is the one he has to be judged. It sounds like we’re aligned. He needs to be judged by all on this season, not a potential future one. No more postponing accountability. In the meantime, treat the fans and colleagues with some respect, and don’t lie. That would be great. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 16:04 - Jun 21 with 1659 views | Hunterhoop |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 13:47 - Jun 21 by KensalT |
I agree with almost all of that.
The one bit I disagree with is the comment that progress next season 'might' justify the retention of Ben Williams by Christian Nourry.
Regardless of what BW's current job title is his background is in sports science and physical conditioning.
That's what we brought him in for.
We've had two consecutive seasons with large numbers of soft tissue injuries and players looking in poor condition throughout the season.
Dembele and Burrell are two players we might have considered cashing in on this summer but won't be able to now that both finished the season with lengthy injuries.
If we can't keep our players match fit and free of muscle injuries we are going to struggle to get a good return on the investments we have made on players in the last couple of years. And without profitable player sales the whole development model falls apart.
I know from your comments on other threads that you aren't a BW fan so maybe you didn't mean it the way I interpreted it, but I can't see any justification for continuing with BW. [Post edited 21 Jun 13:49]
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Yeah, the last bit. Obviously, I don’t like or rate BW. I just meant that Nourry or anyone could argue, if this season was a success, with few injuries, with BW still in post, that it was the right call to stick with him. I don’t think one equals the other, but it could be argued. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 16:36 - Jun 21 with 1634 views | QPR_John |
Hollow words | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 16:47 - Jun 21 with 1616 views | KensalT |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 16:04 - Jun 21 by Hunterhoop |
Yeah, the last bit. Obviously, I don’t like or rate BW. I just meant that Nourry or anyone could argue, if this season was a success, with few injuries, with BW still in post, that it was the right call to stick with him. I don’t think one equals the other, but it could be argued. |
For me, Williams has sunk so deep into the debit column he'd need to start raising the dead to balance the books. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 19:49 - Jun 21 with 1501 views | Burnleyhoop |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 12:13 - Jun 20 by Hunterhoop |
Neither do I. I wouldn’t be selling Sam Field. I’d be selling Varane. But there we go.
But there hasn’t been steady progress.
25/26: 15th / 58 pts / GD -12
24/25: 15th / 56 pts / GD -10
23/24: 18th / 56 pts / GD -11
We’ve improved 2pts in the last two seasons with a GD one worse. It’s 3 near identical seasons on paper. Last season we all saw the promise of better.
Well, surely now is the season we realise that?! Why not? Why shouldn’t it. Top 10 is just 5 places in a League of 24! As you say Hull went from well below us to 6th and promotion. Millwall have gone past us up the table in the last two seasons
Surely, this is the season we should expect proper progress? That has to be the expectation and target. If not now, when? We need to have some standards.
Would I be doing it how the current leadership are? No. But they might be correct. It’s not unreasonable to expect to see some evidence of that in points and league position after 3 seasons and lots of spending… |
The current midfield consists of Madsen, Varane, Vale and Morgan, with Saito and Smyth in
support. Hopefully Chair as well, although two seasons as a crock doesn’t bode well. Poku’s hamstrings need the six million dollar man treatment. Dembele out until the autumn.
Regardless of the make up of the league and some glimmer of improvement last season, my optimism is still only marginally improved.
A few new signings in the obvious areas might help, but we need a significant improvement in consistency and availability to make tangible progress. By no means a given at this club. | | | |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 20:41 - Jun 21 with 1465 views | Mick_S |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 16:47 - Jun 21 by KensalT |
For me, Williams has sunk so deep into the debit column he'd need to start raising the dead to balance the books. |
This is the main point for me, and the one main thing that is tempering my enthusiasm. Another injury punctuated season just doesn’t allow us to see what we could be and actually achieve. I feel this is what happened last term and hasn’t allowed us to judge the progress we could be making. Please don’t let it happen again because, for me, it’s the major hindering factor in working out where we are on the pitch. |  |
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| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 23:54 - Jun 21 with 1339 views | PunteR |
| WLS - Deal Agreed to Sell Field to Norwich on 14:20 - Jun 21 by Stainrod |
It seems we aren't so far apart mate in that you accept that this (not last) season is the one to judge him on. And that is fair. There needs to be signs of progress by May (though we might differ on how that is measured: arguably IMHO selling two players for £10m each would be more important on our long march back to the footballing big time than it is to finish, say, 9th).
All I would say is, given we accept this is the season we need to see tangible progress, and given the season is not even close to kicking off yet, lets dial down the criticism until next May.
If we are 16th then having seen no significant player sales (at least one player and preferably two going for £5m each, say) he will have some very tough questions to answer. And if we haven't developed a few gems and instead we have another injury plagued season with Ben Williams still calling the shots while chatting utter manure about it, then very likely he will need to face a lot more than questions. But lets wait till May for that inquest. |
selling two players for £10m each would be more important on our long march back to the footballing big time than it is to finish, say, 9th).
Is it though? Its a chicken and egg scenario.
We are not going to sell players for £10 mill if the team is fighting relegation. |  |
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