| Next seasons defence 10:32 - Apr 11 with 1673 views | Myke |
So with an eye to next season, defence seems to be the most problematic. Notwithstanding our poor goal return this season which would appear fixable from within; our defenders seem most likely to hinder any potential promotion bid. Furlong should be fine but still learning his trade. Bidwell is steady but limited. Robinson seriously injury prone. Perch is slow and prone to horrific rash challenges which potentially can leave us a man short in any given game. The chief is past his best and often appears nervous and unsure. Lynch's positional sense and reactions are laughable at times. Basically I'm saying the only reliable, quality experienced defender we have is Hall. Obviously we are not going to buy 5 or 6 backs, but who do you think we need to replace the most urgently? My own feeling is that Manning could do a terrific job at left wing back and we should be focussing on new centre-halves this summer |  | | |  |
| Next seasons defence on 11:34 - Apr 11 with 1634 views | FDC |
One of the problems of late seems to be the wing-backs getting exposed by the narrowness of the three man midfield in front of them.
I've been wondering about how the players we already have would fit in to a conventional 4-4-2, to address this problem.
------------Wash-Smith
Manning-Luongo-Freeman-Wszolek
Bidwell------Hall----Ned--------Furlong
i think something like this could work. Wszolek has demonstrated that he can provide good protection for Furlong in the past, in a 3-4-3, and Manning showed he get up and down the line in the second half on Friday.
Alternatively Robinson could play on the left in front of Bidwell, but I think Manning, Luongo and Trinkle-Toes are the future of our midfield and need to be on pitch. [Post edited 11 Apr 2017 11:42]
|  | | |
| Next seasons defence on 11:50 - Apr 11 with 1617 views | DWQPR |
The OP seems to have ice last overlooked Caulker!
 | |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 13:08 - Apr 11 with 1540 views | Dorse |
I mentioned on another thread that I think that we need cover in the CB positions. If we are going to play 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 we need to have more than just three centre backs in the First Team squad.
Ned has shown this season that he can be an effective man-marker (a la Danny Maddix). His performance against Tammy Abraham in the game against the Wurzels stands out - he absolutely nullified the division's form striker. In a three, I think he could easily do this job, taking out one of the oppo's striking options and allowing the other two to deal with the other threats.
Hall has been a revelation this season. Stepping up into midfield is not an easy job, especially when he is also expected to drop back into defence when we're under pressure. I think he is best deployed in a three: he can effectively sweep, tracking runners.
I am confused about Lynch: on the one hand, he looks exactly the sort of player I like (prepared to tackle a 30ft concrete effigy of King Kong if it was onside in the box); on the other, I have the strange feeling that he is trying a bit too hard to add some 'finesse' to his game when I feel it's a bit unnecessary. I'm not saying he's a bad player - he clearly isn't - I just think he needs to focus on what he does best rather than try to be Maldini.
Caulker - seriously? Does he still play for us? When he's good, he's the best centre-back we've seen at the club for a long time. I think the club needs to plan for life without him.
The U23s have got a couple of lads who'll be involved in pre-season games at least. Chris Paul is decent and Finney may be an option but they're unlikely to become first choice CBs as things stand. Of course, Kakay and Hamalainen may well end up getting games at full / wing back.
I would still like to see another CB added to the squad. In previous years, I'd have said go for Lewis Dunk but that isn't an option now. Tom Lees at Sheffield Wednesday is a good option too but he's had knee problems this year. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 13:11 - Apr 11 with 1534 views | DWQPR |
| Next seasons defence on 13:08 - Apr 11 by Dorse |
I mentioned on another thread that I think that we need cover in the CB positions. If we are going to play 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 we need to have more than just three centre backs in the First Team squad.
Ned has shown this season that he can be an effective man-marker (a la Danny Maddix). His performance against Tammy Abraham in the game against the Wurzels stands out - he absolutely nullified the division's form striker. In a three, I think he could easily do this job, taking out one of the oppo's striking options and allowing the other two to deal with the other threats.
Hall has been a revelation this season. Stepping up into midfield is not an easy job, especially when he is also expected to drop back into defence when we're under pressure. I think he is best deployed in a three: he can effectively sweep, tracking runners.
I am confused about Lynch: on the one hand, he looks exactly the sort of player I like (prepared to tackle a 30ft concrete effigy of King Kong if it was onside in the box); on the other, I have the strange feeling that he is trying a bit too hard to add some 'finesse' to his game when I feel it's a bit unnecessary. I'm not saying he's a bad player - he clearly isn't - I just think he needs to focus on what he does best rather than try to be Maldini.
Caulker - seriously? Does he still play for us? When he's good, he's the best centre-back we've seen at the club for a long time. I think the club needs to plan for life without him.
The U23s have got a couple of lads who'll be involved in pre-season games at least. Chris Paul is decent and Finney may be an option but they're unlikely to become first choice CBs as things stand. Of course, Kakay and Hamalainen may well end up getting games at full / wing back.
I would still like to see another CB added to the squad. In previous years, I'd have said go for Lewis Dunk but that isn't an option now. Tom Lees at Sheffield Wednesday is a good option too but he's had knee problems this year. |
Could you imagine Rangers having a centre back pairing of Paul, Finney!!!!!  | |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 13:15 - Apr 11 with 1512 views | aston_hoop |
Wonder if that Wycombe defender Aaron Pierre will be back on the radar again? His name pops up every transfer window and maybe this is the time. |  |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 13:20 - Apr 11 with 1501 views | Toast_R |
| Next seasons defence on 13:08 - Apr 11 by Dorse |
I mentioned on another thread that I think that we need cover in the CB positions. If we are going to play 3-5-2 / 5-3-2 we need to have more than just three centre backs in the First Team squad.
Ned has shown this season that he can be an effective man-marker (a la Danny Maddix). His performance against Tammy Abraham in the game against the Wurzels stands out - he absolutely nullified the division's form striker. In a three, I think he could easily do this job, taking out one of the oppo's striking options and allowing the other two to deal with the other threats.
Hall has been a revelation this season. Stepping up into midfield is not an easy job, especially when he is also expected to drop back into defence when we're under pressure. I think he is best deployed in a three: he can effectively sweep, tracking runners.
I am confused about Lynch: on the one hand, he looks exactly the sort of player I like (prepared to tackle a 30ft concrete effigy of King Kong if it was onside in the box); on the other, I have the strange feeling that he is trying a bit too hard to add some 'finesse' to his game when I feel it's a bit unnecessary. I'm not saying he's a bad player - he clearly isn't - I just think he needs to focus on what he does best rather than try to be Maldini.
Caulker - seriously? Does he still play for us? When he's good, he's the best centre-back we've seen at the club for a long time. I think the club needs to plan for life without him.
The U23s have got a couple of lads who'll be involved in pre-season games at least. Chris Paul is decent and Finney may be an option but they're unlikely to become first choice CBs as things stand. Of course, Kakay and Hamalainen may well end up getting games at full / wing back.
I would still like to see another CB added to the squad. In previous years, I'd have said go for Lewis Dunk but that isn't an option now. Tom Lees at Sheffield Wednesday is a good option too but he's had knee problems this year. |
I'm not confused over Lynch, he just isn't very good. He looks the part, strong and menacing but his positional sense is League 1 standard where he can get away with being the wrong side of his player at least 3 times a half... and his decision making and reading of the game isn't up to the standard you need to form a solid basis of a defence good enough to make a challenge in this division. I don't know who's coaching him but he seems to be getting worse.
An improvement on Lynch is a must in the Summer. If they can move Caulker on then hopefully there will be wages freed up. I'm not bothered about Onouha, I think he's plenty good enough paired with another decent centre back. |  | | |
| Next seasons defence on 13:29 - Apr 11 with 1476 views | Hunterhoop |
| Next seasons defence on 11:34 - Apr 11 by FDC |
One of the problems of late seems to be the wing-backs getting exposed by the narrowness of the three man midfield in front of them.
I've been wondering about how the players we already have would fit in to a conventional 4-4-2, to address this problem.
------------Wash-Smith
Manning-Luongo-Freeman-Wszolek
Bidwell------Hall----Ned--------Furlong
i think something like this could work. Wszolek has demonstrated that he can provide good protection for Furlong in the past, in a 3-4-3, and Manning showed he get up and down the line in the second half on Friday.
Alternatively Robinson could play on the left in front of Bidwell, but I think Manning, Luongo and Trinkle-Toes are the future of our midfield and need to be on pitch. [Post edited 11 Apr 2017 11:42]
|
Spot on, FDC!
I see exactly the same problem and see a similar solution, I'd like us to try it before the season is out. Our biggest flaw is our lack of width. Brighton were able to get around us, Newcastle obviously were, Fulham have done in both games. We struggle to get to the byline, but when we do, we look ace.
On top of this, in Wszolek, we have an International right winger, but we can't find a way to fit him into the side, when he is clearly a VERY good player at this level.
I'd like to try exactly what you have proposed. It's a slightly fudged/cautious 442, in that the LW plays a bit tucked in, but this allows the RW to maraud up and down the pitch, and it keeps our big man/little man partnership in tact, which is working. Having Wszolek and a LW on the pitch should also help us get better delivery into Smith, who is showing he's a proper handful when we actually put some decent balls in the box.
My only tweaks:
- I think Freeman is better suited to being the tucked in LW than Manning. I'd keep Manning in the middle with Luongo.
- I think Robinson is a better all round player now, and will become a much better player in future, than Bidwell. Therefore, when fit, I'd like to see him at LB.
IF we were away at a good side and Holloway desparately wanted to play a back 3/5 (perception is everything), fine, but I'd want Wszolek at RWB, in spite of his limited defensive ability. We can coach his positioning in such a formation. Having Perch/Furlong and Bidwell/Robinson trying to be wing backs, and providing our only width hugely limits our attacking and the effectiveness of Smith. It also asks way to much of the midfield 3.
In terms of next season's defence, I still think Onouha is comfortably our best actual CB in terms of "defending". Lynch, I like in many way, but I'm not sure he's quite up to being a top 6 Championship centre half. He makes a hell of a lot more errors than Onouha! Hall has been excellent in the new CB/CM role, and has played well at CB before, but I still think he's capable of being outmuscled and bullied by the strong CFs in the league. Mitrovic and Jerome have manhandled him about the pitch in the past, which forces the whole team deeper and affects your whole play. I'd go with Hall and Onouha in a 2. However, assuming we get rid of Caulker, we will need a second reserve CB. So either we promote a youth or sign someone.
Right back, and left back, we're absolutely fine with cover. Remember, we're a smallish Championship side in terms of revenue, ground, attendance, history, etc....we simply cannot have 2 top 6 players for each position. We have to have youth backing up some spots.
The squad at the minute is not fair off. It just needs a little tweak, as does our set up. But that's it. We're very close to being very competitive. We do NOT need a Champ Manager fuelled hysteria calling for an overhaul.
Support what we have! |  | | |
| Next seasons defence on 13:30 - Apr 11 with 1473 views | BlackCrowe |
Ned's position is or should be under serious threat for next season. And I'd help Perch pack. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Next seasons defence on 13:32 - Apr 11 with 1462 views | enfieldargh |
| Next seasons defence on 13:11 - Apr 11 by DWQPR |
Could you imagine Rangers having a centre back pairing of Paul, Finney!!!!! |
one of them would have a grass allergy and the other would be too busy flower arranging |  |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 14:09 - Apr 11 with 1394 views | nadera78 |
The biggest issue for me is establishing what exactly we are trying to do with the back 5.
At first Hall was clearly playing as a defensive midfielder, dropping in alongside the 2 centre backs when needed but spending most of his time in midfield. It seemed to be working too, offering some height and a little more physicality in the middle of the pitch whilst also protecting Ned & Lynch at the back. As time's gone on, however, Hall seems to be playing more like a conventional CB. That's fine if you're playing with more advanced wing backs or you're going full on old school continental with a sweeper, but we're not really doing either of those things - for long periods of time recently we've been playing with a flat 5. And it is flat, too flat.
We tend to play a fairly narrow midfield 3, which suggests we want the FBs to be Wing Backs, but they rarely are. We end up playing very narrow, concentrated football. It was only really when Manning was moved to LB (which I don;t really like 'cos he's our best midfielder, but I understand why it happened) that we had someone more advanced on the flanks and in a better position to deliver.
Personally, I'd prefer a conventional back 4 with Hall in front of them. Then Luongo / Manning / Freeman, with Smith and Washington up front.
Weird thing is, I think with perhaps 2 signings - Sam Gallagher (best CF I've seen this year) and A.N.Other CB - and a bit of consistency we've the makings of a very good Championship team. | | | |
| Next seasons defence on 00:04 - Apr 12 with 1160 views | DannytheR |
I think we definitely need someone other than Lynch alongside Ned if we're going to kick on next year. I like Onuoha, and he's been more consistent in the last few months than for most of his time here, but he also does seem to be at his best as the partner to a more typical big vocal lump of a CB, i.e. Richard Dunne/Clint Hill.
I'm always banging on about Grant Hanley, who I imagine Newcastle will be happy to move on as they've barely used him in the Championship and aren't going to start in the Premiership. Only problem is they paid something silly like £5m for him, and won't be letting him leave on a free just a year later.
The other player who might fit the bill is Luke Chambers. Out of contract in the summer, in his 30s now but good at this level and a traditional, loud skipper type.
As is Tommy Elphick, who we were meant to have gone after in January. Will probably be available as Bruce doesn't seem to rate him that highly. Only thing there is that he's only about 5'10, which isn't ideal if he's going to partner Ned. Set pieces give us migraines as it is.
The other name I'd mention is Tommie Hoban from Watford, currently on loan at Blackburn. Really classy young player, although maybe too much in the ball playing-Grant Hall-poundshop Alan Hansen mould rather than the gurning Orc we probably need in there. [Post edited 12 Apr 2017 0:06]
|  | | |
| Next seasons defence on 08:36 - Apr 12 with 1037 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Been saying this for weeks.
Only Hall really convinces and we just don't know whether Robinson is robust enough to have a career. That is very sad for one so young and promising as well.
The rest of them are all justifiably replaceable in terms of their performances and/or what they cost in wages. That said, get you're rock solid dominant old pro at centre back and we'd take a huge leap forward.
In terms of the wider playing defenders, then Olly needs to think this through. No point playing wing-backs currently as we don't have the personnel to play the role properly. So is it going to be two or three centre backs next season? Only when he decides should he enter the market. |  |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 09:55 - Apr 12 with 994 views | francisbowles |
This thread made me start looking at player's ages on the offy and apparently Lynch will be 30 in October so should really have learnt the game by now. Onuoha ia nearly a year older so will have to rely more on his marking and positioning and a little less on his speed of recovery. Hall at 25 has plenty of time to carry on improving but is only 5ft 9?
Looking at other player's height Freeman is 5ft 11, Washington 5ft 10 whilst Mackie is only 5ft 8?. Bidwell is 6ft wheras Robinson is 5ft 11. Goss is only 5 ft 10, Wsolek is 6ft 1, Luongo 5ft 9, Yenni 5ft 8. There are no measurements for Furlong or Manning.
I have to say from row R, I am surprised by most of these. Mackie and Hall, I had thought were around 6ft, Goss looks even taller. I had thought Robinson to be slightly taller than Bidwell and Washington and Freeman to be no more than 5ft 9. | | | |
| Next seasons defence on 11:22 - Apr 12 with 953 views | Myke |
Maybe, at 6' Bidwell could be converted into a left-sided CB instead of Lynch? Allowing Robinson (if fit) or Manning to fill the LB or LWB berth | | | |
| Next seasons defence on 11:58 - Apr 12 with 927 views | Hunterhoop |
They are obviously all wrong.
No way Bidwell is taller than Hall!
This is why "stats" mean very little unless interrogated. I would imagine what's happened is either manual error, ie. someone manually uploading the list of players and height specs has misaligned them, or the excel data table sitting behind the site has the height and name table misaligned. No one has probably told the club, and no one in the club/SaaS provider, has bothered to check. | | | |
| Next seasons defence on 11:59 - Apr 12 with 922 views | DannytheR |
| Next seasons defence on 09:55 - Apr 12 by francisbowles |
This thread made me start looking at player's ages on the offy and apparently Lynch will be 30 in October so should really have learnt the game by now. Onuoha ia nearly a year older so will have to rely more on his marking and positioning and a little less on his speed of recovery. Hall at 25 has plenty of time to carry on improving but is only 5ft 9?
Looking at other player's height Freeman is 5ft 11, Washington 5ft 10 whilst Mackie is only 5ft 8?. Bidwell is 6ft wheras Robinson is 5ft 11. Goss is only 5 ft 10, Wsolek is 6ft 1, Luongo 5ft 9, Yenni 5ft 8. There are no measurements for Furlong or Manning.
I have to say from row R, I am surprised by most of these. Mackie and Hall, I had thought were around 6ft, Goss looks even taller. I had thought Robinson to be slightly taller than Bidwell and Washington and Freeman to be no more than 5ft 9. |
I don't think you can believe everything you read on the official site. Grant Hall is no more 5'9" than three legged. (No jokes). | | | |
| Next seasons defence on 13:21 - Apr 12 with 875 views | Dorse |
I actually think Lynch and Onouha + 1 in a three will be pretty solid but that + 1, if not Hall, might need to be brought in.
The squad as it is, playing the way it is, looks as though it could kick on next season and make the top 10 with only minor tinkering but I feel that the tinkering should be aimed at bringing in another CB to add to the roster rather than replace anyone.
Edit - apart from replacing Caulker of course. [Post edited 12 Apr 2017 13:25]
| |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 13:43 - Apr 12 with 845 views | ngbqpr |
| Next seasons defence on 00:04 - Apr 12 by DannytheR |
I think we definitely need someone other than Lynch alongside Ned if we're going to kick on next year. I like Onuoha, and he's been more consistent in the last few months than for most of his time here, but he also does seem to be at his best as the partner to a more typical big vocal lump of a CB, i.e. Richard Dunne/Clint Hill.
I'm always banging on about Grant Hanley, who I imagine Newcastle will be happy to move on as they've barely used him in the Championship and aren't going to start in the Premiership. Only problem is they paid something silly like £5m for him, and won't be letting him leave on a free just a year later.
The other player who might fit the bill is Luke Chambers. Out of contract in the summer, in his 30s now but good at this level and a traditional, loud skipper type.
As is Tommy Elphick, who we were meant to have gone after in January. Will probably be available as Bruce doesn't seem to rate him that highly. Only thing there is that he's only about 5'10, which isn't ideal if he's going to partner Ned. Set pieces give us migraines as it is.
The other name I'd mention is Tommie Hoban from Watford, currently on loan at Blackburn. Really classy young player, although maybe too much in the ball playing-Grant Hall-poundshop Alan Hansen mould rather than the gurning Orc we probably need in there. [Post edited 12 Apr 2017 0:06]
|
Genuine LOL - a poundshop Hansen and a gurning Orc does indeed make the perfect Championship CB pairing! |  |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 17:26 - Apr 12 with 770 views | derbyhoop |
CB is a problem area. Effectively we have Onohua, Lynch and Hall, as Caulker seems to have forgotten that he's supposed to be a footballer rather than a regular in the magistrates courts. We've been using Hall in midfield, on occasions.
At LB we have steady Bidwell, Robinson, if he can be kept fit and Hammellainen as a backup. At RB, I'd expect Furlong to be first choice. I don't think Kakay has made enough of an impact, on loan at Chesterfield, to be a serious consideration. So, I'd be prepapred to offer Perch, despite his faults, a new deal. It would be as a squad player where he could cover RB, LB, CB and defensive midfield - valuable flexibility.
It would be great if we could get something better than Lynch, who would then become a backup. Otherwise we would be reliant on Paul or Finney stepping up from the U23s. I'd be surprised if the club haven't been looking at CB options already, but I haven't got any names in mind. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
| |
| Next seasons defence on 22:16 - Apr 12 with 616 views | bosh67 |
It may be that the academy lads come through next season
Niko Hamalainen I think looks like a top prospect. Furlong is coming through, needs to be better positionally but will be fine. Osman Kakay again looks like he could break through. Jeremy Arthur I believe is still with us and there had been high hopes for him as a CB. There are a few coming through. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
