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On a vaguely related note I do think it's terribly wrong to destroy old statues and war monuments to the dead because the historical people involved are not compatible to modern ideals.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 04:40 - Aug 20 by Humpty
BTW Swanjackal, you said Communists have killed more Jews than the Nazis did.
I have no idea if that is true or not, but I find it doubtful.
Could you provide a source for that information please? A reliable source? Not some bonkers alt right source?
If you can I will apologize for asking.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 4:46]
ARE. YOU. F*CKING. SERIOUS... Jesus, Hump, the left wing industrial propaganda machine has done a number on you. Are you saying you think Adolf Hitler killed more people than Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot (never mind the rest) put together ("They weren't real Communism", a million spoilt millennial brats cry out in pain)
But, TBH, what does it matter Hump. Communism and Nazism have killed millions upon millions...Communism has been given second, third, forth chances and done it again and again. Only one of us is denouncing both. Only one of us is denouncing all violence. (well two if you count DJT...Trump, not DGT) And one of us (you) is avoiding telling Neath Jack to back up his disgraceful accusations. IMO, you can't just call people racist without backing it up...what about you ,Hump, do you agree?
Edit - Sorry, Hump, just read your post again...saw that you said 'more Jews'. I will leave this unedited as a monument to my mistake. And I will try and find a source for it. Until I can back up my claim I will, of course, retract it. Although does it change the argument?
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 8:55]
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 08:26 - Aug 20 with 1383 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 07:57 - Aug 20 by Highjack
On a vaguely related note I do think it's terribly wrong to destroy old statues and war monuments to the dead because the historical people involved are not compatible to modern ideals.
I agree Highjack. And no, lefties, not because I agree with slavery. A little wander through the pages of history will show you a dark side to the type of people who want to destroy art, burn books, smash statues, ban films etc. just because they offend them. They also will not stop there. Next they will go after the founding fathers and once you undermine them you undermine the constitution. Which seems a bit of a coincidence when Progressives...or lets call them what they are, Pro-aggressives, want to curtail free speech and ban guns. The pyramids were built by slaves...should we knock them down? The Pharaohs had slaves...that's their statues gone. Cyrus the great and Sargon of Akkad...scrub them from history.
This childish view that slavery was a crime of the white man and committed only on blacks in America, is retar...is 'Neath Jack' Why don't these virtue signalling f*ckwits do something useful and actually try protesting the slavery still going on in the world, today. They won't, because that would mean rebuking 'people of colour' and that would see them lose all their virtue points.
And before you ask, Hump, here is a map from the Global Slavery index
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 08:39 - Aug 20 with 1371 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 04:29 - Aug 20 by Humpty
Was it where I compared the Antifa Communists and the Neo Nazis fighting in the streets, to the Communist and Nazis fighting in the street in Weimar Germany....and Hump didn't understand the comparison?.
I did understand it. I just thought it was a shit comparison. I thought I made that clear. I asked WTF has street violence during the Weirmar Republic got to do with what's happening now. Back then it was Communist versus Nazi. Two different economic and political systems. Now it's antifascists versus Nazis. A completely different thing.
Communism has f*ck all to do with what is happening now. Communism is dead. I don't care if you saw a hammer and sickle flag. Any one person can bring any flag to any riot. It doesn't mean the other side is communist. It doesn't even mean they're left wing. They just people who hate Nazis, including people who vote Lib Dem.
BTW theres actually nothing comparable between Communism and Nazism.
One was an economic theory invented by many writers but most famously by Marx and Engels. It was shit and failed. But some of the states who tried it, like Russia and China, and Cambodia went all tits up and murdered millions of people. Lots and lots of them, even more than the Nazis and it was terrible. But Marx and Engels never wrote that. They didn't want that to happen. Horrible people, like Stalin, and Mao etc. came along later and did that.
The other was National Socialism, or Nazism if you prefer. A different economic and political system. But one with a particular racial element which included killing all the races you didn't happen to like at the time. Like the Jews. And they did. As many as they could get their horrible little racist hands on. European Jewry was pretty much wiped out in the most unimaginable ways. It was a major part of the Nazi ideology. Kill the Jews.
Hitler kindly wrote a book about it so we knew exactly what he meant.
Do you not see the difference? Marxism was let's do economics like this. Nazism was let's do economics like this and KILL EVERY F*CKING JEW YOU CAN FIND, MAN WOMEN AND F*CKING BABY!
Now, people are fighting and killing people in America. It's not communist versus Nazis. It's people who don't like Nazis versus Nazis.
The fact that you're calling them communists just shows what side you've chosen to be on. I'm on the other side. And I'm not a communist.
Communism is dead. The people fighting the Nazis are not Communists. Go to bed.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 5:11]
It was a perfect comparison actually. What on earth are you talking about, has nothing to do with communism?? Antifa groups are all have their roots in communism, anarchy-communist or anti-capitalist movements. They despise the "capitalist patriarchy" and want to tear it down, they hate any kind of national identity. If you are not antifa, in their eyes, you are a Nazi. If a Jewish man wears a Trump t shirt, he is a Nazi. If a teenage girl walks into a university campus to listen to a conservative, not racist extremist, a conservative speaker, then she is a Nazi. Policeman trying to maintain the peace in Boston have bottles of urine thrown at them, and Poloce horses have recently been stabbed with planks of wood with nails inserted at the ends- why you may ask?? Yes that's right, you guessed right, they were "Nazis"
You are desperately uneducated on the group or desperately ignorant to it, either way you are wrong on this one. How can you argued with what Mo is putting forward, call out all extremist violence. Or do you buy the line, "well their name says they are just anti fascist, so how can they be bad"?
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Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 08:41 - Aug 20 with 1369 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 08:41 - Aug 20 by exiledclaseboy
"Antifa, started by Leon Trotsky..."
Yeah that's right the modern ant fascist movement is the same as what Trotsky was doing in pre-1917 Russia. Big lol.
Funny how when you're backed up against a wall you reply with "I feel a bit Dimied". So I, like a gentleman, let you squirm out...then you jump back at the first chance you get.
The Neo Nazis are not gassing Jews like Hitler in the 1940's so they are not the same. Bigger LOL.
Antifa say they are Communists. I didn't say they are the same Communist from history. I said we have two groups of people, just like in Germany, one group calls themselves Nazis, the other Communists. They are both violent thugs. WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING ONE GROUP? Why are you excusing a bunch of spoilt, middleclass, tw@ts taking the law into their own hands? Why won't you denounce both groups violence...no if's or but's.? Why won't you tell Neath Jack to back up his accusations?
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 09:17 - Aug 20 with 1345 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 09:11 - Aug 20 by Mo_Wives
Funny how when you're backed up against a wall you reply with "I feel a bit Dimied". So I, like a gentleman, let you squirm out...then you jump back at the first chance you get.
The Neo Nazis are not gassing Jews like Hitler in the 1940's so they are not the same. Bigger LOL.
Antifa say they are Communists. I didn't say they are the same Communist from history. I said we have two groups of people, just like in Germany, one group calls themselves Nazis, the other Communists. They are both violent thugs. WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING ONE GROUP? Why are you excusing a bunch of spoilt, middleclass, tw@ts taking the law into their own hands? Why won't you denounce both groups violence...no if's or but's.? Why won't you tell Neath Jack to back up his accusations?
You're getting silly now. You said "Antifa, started by Leon Trotsky". I said "big lol". I said none of the other things you've somehow managed to attribute to me.
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 08:39 - Aug 20 by adamswan
It was a perfect comparison actually. What on earth are you talking about, has nothing to do with communism?? Antifa groups are all have their roots in communism, anarchy-communist or anti-capitalist movements. They despise the "capitalist patriarchy" and want to tear it down, they hate any kind of national identity. If you are not antifa, in their eyes, you are a Nazi. If a Jewish man wears a Trump t shirt, he is a Nazi. If a teenage girl walks into a university campus to listen to a conservative, not racist extremist, a conservative speaker, then she is a Nazi. Policeman trying to maintain the peace in Boston have bottles of urine thrown at them, and Poloce horses have recently been stabbed with planks of wood with nails inserted at the ends- why you may ask?? Yes that's right, you guessed right, they were "Nazis"
You are desperately uneducated on the group or desperately ignorant to it, either way you are wrong on this one. How can you argued with what Mo is putting forward, call out all extremist violence. Or do you buy the line, "well their name says they are just anti fascist, so how can they be bad"?
They actually think they are the moral ones
And they actually think Antifa are only resisting Nazis and white supremacist. Even when they run through cities, where there are no opposition 'Nazis' to be seen, and smash everything up. They think this because the Media told them.
They refuse to call out both sides...and they refuse to call out Neath Jack. They are not interested in the right thing to do, they are only interested in defending their tribe.
All that effort trying to stop football hooliganism in the 80's and 90's and all they had to do was start calling them Anti-fascist and the problem would have been solved
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 09:17 - Aug 20 by exiledclaseboy
You're getting silly now. You said "Antifa, started by Leon Trotsky". I said "big lol". I said none of the other things you've somehow managed to attribute to me.
You didn't say you feel a bit dimied? Earlier in the thread you said about Antifa/Nazi "I know which side I'm on" (paraphrasing)...and you have avoided my repetitive calls for you to denounce both sides...so, sorry, I take that as you not denouncing both sides ("strawman...strawman")
Ok, lets pin down your position...
Do you denounce violence on both sides...no 'if's', no 'but's'?
Was Donald Trump correct in denouncing violence on both sides?
If Neath Jack calls me a racist, should he have to back up his accusation?
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 9:38]
Good luck, Mr Cooper
-1
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 09:50 - Aug 20 with 1309 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 09:32 - Aug 20 by Mo_Wives
You didn't say you feel a bit dimied? Earlier in the thread you said about Antifa/Nazi "I know which side I'm on" (paraphrasing)...and you have avoided my repetitive calls for you to denounce both sides...so, sorry, I take that as you not denouncing both sides ("strawman...strawman")
Ok, lets pin down your position...
Do you denounce violence on both sides...no 'if's', no 'but's'?
Was Donald Trump correct in denouncing violence on both sides?
If Neath Jack calls me a racist, should he have to back up his accusation?
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 9:38]
And to any left wing fan boys, fluttering around the edges of this debate, trying to insert your proboscis into Humpty's bum hole...try to understand what's going on...
The 'lefties' are trying to avoid answering these questions. Instead of confronting these questions they are trying to spin the debate off into discussions about historic communism or throwing up diversionary tactics by shouting "STRAWMAN" (without showing the strawman). And when you pin them down, they go silent...they walk away.
*in the distance a door slams as ECB leaves the room
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 9:56]
Good luck, Mr Cooper
-1
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 10:42 - Aug 20 with 1279 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 08:39 - Aug 20 by adamswan
It was a perfect comparison actually. What on earth are you talking about, has nothing to do with communism?? Antifa groups are all have their roots in communism, anarchy-communist or anti-capitalist movements. They despise the "capitalist patriarchy" and want to tear it down, they hate any kind of national identity. If you are not antifa, in their eyes, you are a Nazi. If a Jewish man wears a Trump t shirt, he is a Nazi. If a teenage girl walks into a university campus to listen to a conservative, not racist extremist, a conservative speaker, then she is a Nazi. Policeman trying to maintain the peace in Boston have bottles of urine thrown at them, and Poloce horses have recently been stabbed with planks of wood with nails inserted at the ends- why you may ask?? Yes that's right, you guessed right, they were "Nazis"
You are desperately uneducated on the group or desperately ignorant to it, either way you are wrong on this one. How can you argued with what Mo is putting forward, call out all extremist violence. Or do you buy the line, "well their name says they are just anti fascist, so how can they be bad"?
You've met Ebo then?
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 08:26 - Aug 20 by Mo_Wives
I agree Highjack. And no, lefties, not because I agree with slavery. A little wander through the pages of history will show you a dark side to the type of people who want to destroy art, burn books, smash statues, ban films etc. just because they offend them. They also will not stop there. Next they will go after the founding fathers and once you undermine them you undermine the constitution. Which seems a bit of a coincidence when Progressives...or lets call them what they are, Pro-aggressives, want to curtail free speech and ban guns. The pyramids were built by slaves...should we knock them down? The Pharaohs had slaves...that's their statues gone. Cyrus the great and Sargon of Akkad...scrub them from history.
This childish view that slavery was a crime of the white man and committed only on blacks in America, is retar...is 'Neath Jack' Why don't these virtue signalling f*ckwits do something useful and actually try protesting the slavery still going on in the world, today. They won't, because that would mean rebuking 'people of colour' and that would see them lose all their virtue points.
And before you ask, Hump, here is a map from the Global Slavery index
I might be being overly cynical but I think the pulling down of these statues by these groups are intended more as a provocation to the other side rather than a deep set objection to the historical figures.
Also the waving of nazi memorabilia by the other side is more likely to be intended to provoke and wind up the opposition rather than the deep set desire for the Deep South of America to overturn the effects of the Versailles treaty, unite all Germanic peoples and create more living space for them all to live in for the next thousand years.
In conclusion it's two groups of incredibly stupid human beings prodding each other with sticks and we should be pointing and laughing at all of them whilst shouting what a bunch of hilarious stupid dicks if it wasn't for the fact people are getting hurt and dying.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 11:08]
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 10:49 - Aug 20 by Highjack
I might be being overly cynical but I think the pulling down of these statues by these groups are intended more as a provocation to the other side rather than a deep set objection to the historical figures.
Also the waving of nazi memorabilia by the other side is more likely to be intended to provoke and wind up the opposition rather than the deep set desire for the Deep South of America to overturn the effects of the Versailles treaty, unite all Germanic peoples and create more living space for them all to live in for the next thousand years.
In conclusion it's two groups of incredibly stupid human beings prodding each other with sticks and we should be pointing and laughing at all of them whilst shouting what a bunch of hilarious stupid dicks if it wasn't for the fact people are getting hurt and dying.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 11:08]
Good luck, Mr Cooper
-1
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 11:47 - Aug 20 with 1229 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 09:32 - Aug 20 by Mo_Wives
You didn't say you feel a bit dimied? Earlier in the thread you said about Antifa/Nazi "I know which side I'm on" (paraphrasing)...and you have avoided my repetitive calls for you to denounce both sides...so, sorry, I take that as you not denouncing both sides ("strawman...strawman")
Ok, lets pin down your position...
Do you denounce violence on both sides...no 'if's', no 'but's'?
Was Donald Trump correct in denouncing violence on both sides?
If Neath Jack calls me a racist, should he have to back up his accusation?
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 9:38]
To answer your questions.
1 - not automatically in every case, no. 2 - no. trump should have used his position and influence to roundly and unequivocally condemn white supremacy and white supremacists. But he didn't. Well he did but that was after he was forced into it then roundly backtracked 24 hours later. Probably because he agrees with them. 3 - NJ is a big boy and I've no doubt he can answer for himself if he has the desire to do so. That's up to him.
Now, I'm popping out for a while and may not be back for a bit. Please don't take my absence as "proof" that you've "won". Or you can if you want. I'm not that bothered.
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 11:47 - Aug 20 by exiledclaseboy
To answer your questions.
1 - not automatically in every case, no. 2 - no. trump should have used his position and influence to roundly and unequivocally condemn white supremacy and white supremacists. But he didn't. Well he did but that was after he was forced into it then roundly backtracked 24 hours later. Probably because he agrees with them. 3 - NJ is a big boy and I've no doubt he can answer for himself if he has the desire to do so. That's up to him.
Now, I'm popping out for a while and may not be back for a bit. Please don't take my absence as "proof" that you've "won". Or you can if you want. I'm not that bothered.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 11:48]
Where you off anywhere nice?
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 11:47 - Aug 20 by exiledclaseboy
To answer your questions.
1 - not automatically in every case, no. 2 - no. trump should have used his position and influence to roundly and unequivocally condemn white supremacy and white supremacists. But he didn't. Well he did but that was after he was forced into it then roundly backtracked 24 hours later. Probably because he agrees with them. 3 - NJ is a big boy and I've no doubt he can answer for himself if he has the desire to do so. That's up to him.
Now, I'm popping out for a while and may not be back for a bit. Please don't take my absence as "proof" that you've "won". Or you can if you want. I'm not that bothered.
[Post edited 20 Aug 2017 11:48]
1 a- Does it depend on if it's your side committing the violence or not? 1 b- Do you support 20year old millennial brats, in masks, with weapons taking the law into their own hands?
2 - I'm glad the most powerful man in the world is not as partisan as you, whatever else he may be.
3 - I'm not asking you to stand up for Neath Jack. I'm asking you to stand up for your principles, if they are your principles. So again, please, loud enough for the tape...should ANYONE who accuses someone else of being racist (or anything else for that matter) back up their claim, or retract and apologise?
And finally... I'm not looking for the win, my friend...I'm looking for the truth. This is why I see the truth and you don't. Stop trying to make your side the winner...no one's winning in this situation. The truth?...we have two groups engaging in violence, they must both be denounced. Who cares who is worse, this violence has now caused death and will cause more...on both sides. Oh, and BTW, tell your sister I said hello.
The defence rests, M'lud.
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 13:04 - Aug 20 with 1187 views
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 13:01 - Aug 20 by Mo_Wives
1 a- Does it depend on if it's your side committing the violence or not? 1 b- Do you support 20year old millennial brats, in masks, with weapons taking the law into their own hands?
2 - I'm glad the most powerful man in the world is not as partisan as you, whatever else he may be.
3 - I'm not asking you to stand up for Neath Jack. I'm asking you to stand up for your principles, if they are your principles. So again, please, loud enough for the tape...should ANYONE who accuses someone else of being racist (or anything else for that matter) back up their claim, or retract and apologise?
And finally... I'm not looking for the win, my friend...I'm looking for the truth. This is why I see the truth and you don't. Stop trying to make your side the winner...no one's winning in this situation. The truth?...we have two groups engaging in violence, they must both be denounced. Who cares who is worse, this violence has now caused death and will cause more...on both sides. Oh, and BTW, tell your sister I said hello.
The defence rests, M'lud.
I'll continue to indulge you for a while. You're clearly enjoying yourself.
1a - partly yes. But as you've said, both sides committed violence on this occasion. Throughout history, violence has been used as a means of achieving political aims. There are scores of examples so it'd be silly to denounce ALL political violence. But it's fairly obvious that a person's view of whether that violence can be justified or not will depend on whether they're sympathetic to the cause.
1b - I don't know what a "millennial brat" is. I'm assuming it's the kind of identity politics youbreckon you have no time for. But anyway, on principle I wouldn't support vigilantism but again I can envisage that there could be situations in which I could feel that it's justified.
2 - You don't think trump is "partisan". Ha ha ha ha and, indeed, ha.
3.- I could quite happily call you a racist and not feel that I'd have to back it up. It might be just an opinion I had formed from reading your posts. I'm not saying I think you're a racist (although I'm not saying I don't think you're a racist either) just that if I did I wouldn't feel beholden to back my opinion up or apologise.
Let me boil this down for you. I am happy to absolutely and without equivocation condemn white supremacists, neo nazis, the KKK and anyone else who considers themselves superior to or of a higher race to someone else purely because their skin is white. The very concept it's ridiculous to me. I absolutely won't offer the same condemnation to anyone who stands up to oppose these people.
My sister said to tell you to "f*ck off ya daft racist". (Joke - as you're so fond of saying).
Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 13:35 - Aug 20 by Neath_Jack
F*ck me i'm getting some mentions in this here thread.
I think i'll go away and come back under a new username and pretend I've never posted on here before. Seems the in thing to do these days.
That is what a coward would do.
I personally, if I was you, would back up my claim. If I could not I would retract it and apologise. It is important we keep ourselves on the moral path...because Humpty can't do it for us.
Look Scarecrow, they're playing your song....
Good luck, Mr Cooper
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Car hits crowd of anti-fascist protesters amid white-supremacist violence on 14:12 - Aug 20 with 1119 views
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