| The Countdown begins. on 14:45 - Dec 16 with 1184 views | monmouth |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:36 - Dec 16 by exiledclaseboy |
He also didnāt say that all UKIP voters were racist and the lowest common denominator in society.
Why on earth do you keep making stuff up? |
Because truth died a long time ago, and people believe what theyād like to believe with absolutely no faculties for critical evaluation.
A trait of journalism too.
Vested interests can now do whatever they want without any fear of ever being held to account. Just lie and everything is ok. |  |
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| The Countdown begins. on 14:45 - Dec 16 with 1184 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:41 - Dec 16 by Jango |
This my post from earlier in the thread which you were active in if I remember correctly. You didnāt seem to jump in that day but are now.
This a man who labelled UKIP as racists.
āOf course they are racist, who doubts that? The language, the rhetoric, the membership, who doubts it?"
Also
ā They are racist operations pandering to the lowest common denominators in politics."
All because they are politically different to him. Nonsense donāt you think?
Forgive me for mixing up a few words since then. My point was heās an ignorant out of touch man. |
Iām glad weāve finally established the facts of what he said, not the made up and embellished ones you attributed to him. Iām no fan of Heseltine by the way. I despised him and most of his peers when the Thatcher government he was a large part of was it its destructive peak. |  |
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| The Countdown begins. on 14:47 - Dec 16 with 1172 views | rockinjk |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:45 - Dec 16 by monmouth |
Because truth died a long time ago, and people believe what theyād like to believe with absolutely no faculties for critical evaluation.
A trait of journalism too.
Vested interests can now do whatever they want without any fear of ever being held to account. Just lie and everything is ok. |
Absolutely. A democracy cannot function as a democracy in that climate.
Voters have to be informed for a democracy to function.
Being told millions of Turks will be coming in and being able to get away with that should worry us all |  | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:54 - Dec 16 with 1157 views | Jango |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:44 - Dec 16 by rockinjk |
Ask you average UKIP voter whether they would like to send āem packing and it would be overwhelming |
As I said 3.8m voters. Labelling people with a different opinion to you as racists when you know nothing about them, their circumstances and living conditions is probably why we are where we are. Hesseltine spouting that off on tv will have only made matters worse.
Amjad Bashir, a Ukip candidate in next yearās European parliamentary elections, attacked Lord Heseltine for his ābaseless and repugnantā accusation of racism.
āHe is an ignorant, out of touch dinosaur and quite frankly horrendously flippant by throwing about the word to suit his partyās agenda,ā Mr Bashir said. | | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 15:01 - Dec 16 with 1148 views | Jango |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:45 - Dec 16 by exiledclaseboy |
Iām glad weāve finally established the facts of what he said, not the made up and embellished ones you attributed to him. Iām no fan of Heseltine by the way. I despised him and most of his peers when the Thatcher government he was a large part of was it its destructive peak. |
My apologies. Iām on break in work so couldnāt be arsed going back over my old posts. Lesson learned.
I donāt understand people giving hesseltine great respect now just because heās supporting their argument. He certainly doesnāt give a rats ass about the large majority of the population. | | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 15:04 - Dec 16 with 1145 views | rockinjk |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:54 - Dec 16 by Jango |
As I said 3.8m voters. Labelling people with a different opinion to you as racists when you know nothing about them, their circumstances and living conditions is probably why we are where we are. Hesseltine spouting that off on tv will have only made matters worse.
Amjad Bashir, a Ukip candidate in next yearās European parliamentary elections, attacked Lord Heseltine for his ābaseless and repugnantā accusation of racism.
āHe is an ignorant, out of touch dinosaur and quite frankly horrendously flippant by throwing about the word to suit his partyās agenda,ā Mr Bashir said. |
They are largely racist and xenophobic but I donāt blame them they are being sold snake oil by people who benefit off their ignorance.
The reason youāre having a sh1t life is because of that foreign chap, the reason NHS is struggling Ian not because of miss management, under funding or ageing population itās foreigners
The reason you canāt get a job, foreigners. The reason your benefits are being cut is because foreigners are taking your benefits
You know why? Itās the EU that evil empire controlling us, preventing us helping you. Itās nothing to with decisions made in UK itās the Germans. We fought a War....
Vote leave, weāll get you a great deal... fast forward...remember the Dunkirk spirit no deal itāll help you in the valleys remember chaps poles, itās the poles
Iām not racist I just want it controlled, I want me Country back. Who do you want to stop coming in? Urgh control control mate | | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 15:10 - Dec 16 with 1140 views | Jango |
| The Countdown begins. on 15:04 - Dec 16 by rockinjk |
They are largely racist and xenophobic but I donāt blame them they are being sold snake oil by people who benefit off their ignorance.
The reason youāre having a sh1t life is because of that foreign chap, the reason NHS is struggling Ian not because of miss management, under funding or ageing population itās foreigners
The reason you canāt get a job, foreigners. The reason your benefits are being cut is because foreigners are taking your benefits
You know why? Itās the EU that evil empire controlling us, preventing us helping you. Itās nothing to with decisions made in UK itās the Germans. We fought a War....
Vote leave, weāll get you a great deal... fast forward...remember the Dunkirk spirit no deal itāll help you in the valleys remember chaps poles, itās the poles
Iām not racist I just want it controlled, I want me Country back. Who do you want to stop coming in? Urgh control control mate |
Or just maybe people made their own minds up and seen UKIP as a means to an end. If the Tories hadnāt put the referendum in their manifesto then UKIP would have had a lot more votes.
The irony in you calling them ignorant. [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 15:11]
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| The Countdown begins. on 16:13 - Dec 16 with 1092 views | rockinjk |
| The Countdown begins. on 15:10 - Dec 16 by Jango |
Or just maybe people made their own minds up and seen UKIP as a means to an end. If the Tories hadnāt put the referendum in their manifesto then UKIP would have had a lot more votes.
The irony in you calling them ignorant. [Post edited 16 Dec 2018 15:11]
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Youāre absolutely right Cameron did it to āunite the rightā and got an election win out of it.
Party before Country. I didnāt realise it at time but this was a disgrace and weāre living with consequences of that decision.
UKIP is the right wing Trojan horse to shift politics to the right. The old Monday Club types thought theyād need to shift tories right outside the tent and they were right!
The Brexit vote is purely a gateway drug to shifting politics to the right and it has worked | | | |
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| The Countdown begins. on 16:35 - Dec 16 with 1080 views | majorraglan |
| The Countdown begins. on 09:22 - Dec 16 by rockinjk |
Corbyn is the problem. Itās quite simple if labour had a moderate decent leader they would be 20/30 points ahead.
Tory moderates would either work with labour or even defect. Brexit wouldnāt be an issue now it would either have been stopped or been super soft.
As someone who wouldnāt instinctively vote labour but would if they had a decent leader it baffles me. |
The Guardian article (which the above comment is linked to) is a very good article which summarises the current position accurately.
The current position is a complete mess and Labour have similar divides to the Tories albeit on a smaller scale. The current government are a shambles, they are fudging around and lurching from one internal issue to another continuously and their infighting is having an adverse impact on the country.
The Labour arenāt exactly covering themselves in glory either. They need to grasp the nettle and come clean, its a nonsense for them to suggest that they could negotiate a better deal because they arenāt in power and the EU canāt engage with them, they are trying to play cute and it aināt cutting it. They are not in a position to propose a vote of no confidence because they havenāt got the numbers unless Sinn Fein are prepared to go to Westminster and vote with them which wonāt happen. As bad as things are in the Tory party, their MPās and those of the DUP will not break ranks because these could leave Labour in which they wonāt want so the confidence motion is a waste of time as anybody with half a brain will realise.
A significant proportion of the Labour support voted leave at the referendum which is the issue for Labour. The EU has done more for workers rights etc, but lots of workers havenāt had a tidy pay rise for years and they believe (following lots of press articles etc) this is down to immigration and the EU etc.
I do believe that a lot of voters are genuinely fearful of Labour and Corbyn following press features etc. This may be a misplaced fear but it is what it is and peopleās perceptions are hard to change. I think with someone more moderate in charge and a clear policy they would be smashing May, but that isnāt happening and wonāt happen until Labour are defeated at the next election. People still think Labour have run up the huge debts, but evidence points to the contrary, our police are struggling, the NHS is struggling, education is struggling and still the Tories are holding their own. If Labour want to win they need to change. | | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 16:54 - Dec 16 with 1069 views | monmouth |
If there was an election tomorrow, the result would be much the same as last time, which is why Corbyn, McDonnell and their minions should be kicked to kingdom come. | |
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| The Countdown begins. on 16:59 - Dec 16 with 1066 views | union_jack |
| The Countdown begins. on 16:35 - Dec 16 by majorraglan |
The Guardian article (which the above comment is linked to) is a very good article which summarises the current position accurately.
The current position is a complete mess and Labour have similar divides to the Tories albeit on a smaller scale. The current government are a shambles, they are fudging around and lurching from one internal issue to another continuously and their infighting is having an adverse impact on the country.
The Labour arenāt exactly covering themselves in glory either. They need to grasp the nettle and come clean, its a nonsense for them to suggest that they could negotiate a better deal because they arenāt in power and the EU canāt engage with them, they are trying to play cute and it aināt cutting it. They are not in a position to propose a vote of no confidence because they havenāt got the numbers unless Sinn Fein are prepared to go to Westminster and vote with them which wonāt happen. As bad as things are in the Tory party, their MPās and those of the DUP will not break ranks because these could leave Labour in which they wonāt want so the confidence motion is a waste of time as anybody with half a brain will realise.
A significant proportion of the Labour support voted leave at the referendum which is the issue for Labour. The EU has done more for workers rights etc, but lots of workers havenāt had a tidy pay rise for years and they believe (following lots of press articles etc) this is down to immigration and the EU etc.
I do believe that a lot of voters are genuinely fearful of Labour and Corbyn following press features etc. This may be a misplaced fear but it is what it is and peopleās perceptions are hard to change. I think with someone more moderate in charge and a clear policy they would be smashing May, but that isnāt happening and wonāt happen until Labour are defeated at the next election. People still think Labour have run up the huge debts, but evidence points to the contrary, our police are struggling, the NHS is struggling, education is struggling and still the Tories are holding their own. If Labour want to win they need to change. |
I don't see Labour coming clean on their views until the Torres nail their colours to the mast.
If they take us down a no deal route, they'll advocate a second referendum. If they opt for a second referendum they'll instigate some policy that appeases the Brexiteers. Party before country as you say.
If nothing else, this Brexiteer has shown how vile and self serving all our politicians are. Not one is willing to say anything that may lose him / her votes. There's a flaw in the system somewhere.
And another thing, whatever happens, there is going to be so much discontent in the country I can see things turning very ugly. And of course, anything that goes wrong will be blamed on remaining / leaving (delete depending on the final outcome). It's been the most divisive thing to have happened since, well for centuries maybe. Well done Cameron! |  |
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| The Countdown begins. on 17:34 - Dec 16 with 1049 views | DJack |
| The Countdown begins. on 16:59 - Dec 16 by union_jack |
I don't see Labour coming clean on their views until the Torres nail their colours to the mast.
If they take us down a no deal route, they'll advocate a second referendum. If they opt for a second referendum they'll instigate some policy that appeases the Brexiteers. Party before country as you say.
If nothing else, this Brexiteer has shown how vile and self serving all our politicians are. Not one is willing to say anything that may lose him / her votes. There's a flaw in the system somewhere.
And another thing, whatever happens, there is going to be so much discontent in the country I can see things turning very ugly. And of course, anything that goes wrong will be blamed on remaining / leaving (delete depending on the final outcome). It's been the most divisive thing to have happened since, well for centuries maybe. Well done Cameron! |
Sad isn't it. The entitled, the self-aggrandisers, the narcissists and the psychopaths have taken control across the parties. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| The Countdown begins. on 18:04 - Dec 16 with 1030 views | rockinjk |
What youāre seeing is populism hitting reality.
Corbyn is a populist there isnāt anything he canāt find money for.
People are not stupid you have to get revenue to spend billions, his policies will reduce revenues and Brexit will mean even less revenue.
But that aside the man is just not very good, he doesnāt have the intelligence, eloquence, pragmatism, drive to be PM. That is why May is ahead she has one quality, she has resilience. It looks like sheās trying! Where is Corbyn?
A functioning opposition would be destroying the tories right now. I think it was Matthew Parris who said what would finish the tories as an electoral force possibly for ever is the resignation of Jeremy Corbyn. If that happened overnight there would be mass panic.
But as you were | | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 09:04 - Dec 17 with 851 views | pikeypaul |
102 AFLI
SIUYRL |  |
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| The Countdown begins. on 09:08 - Dec 17 with 850 views | WarwickHunt |
Wolverhampton 63-37% in favour of leaving. Merry Xmas you stupid cƻnts.
Len McClusky thinks a second referendum would be a betrayal - fƻcking moron. |  | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 09:22 - Dec 17 with 827 views | trampie |
Labour and Conservatives yet again on the same side and dragging the country downhill. |  |
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| The Countdown begins. on 13:20 - Dec 17 with 757 views | WarwickHunt |
Scare tactics - the last resort of a deluded and desperate PM.
It won't get through Parliament.
Edit:
From Sir Ivan Rogers, the UKās former ambassador to the EU.
The āno deal + ā fantasy is that if we just had the guts to walk away, refuse to sign the withdrawal agreement with the backstop in it, and withhold a good half of the money the prime minister promised this time last year, capitals, suddenly realising we were serious, would come running for a series of mini deals which assured full trading continuity in all key sectors on basically unchanged single market and customs union terms.
I donāt know what tablets these people are taking, but I must confess I wish I were on them. It will be said of them as it was said of the Bourbons, I think: āthey have learned nothing and they have forgotten nothingā.
The reality is that if the deal on the table falls apart because we have said ānoā, there will not be some smooth rapid suite of mini side deals ā from aviation to fisheries, from road haulage to data, from derivatives to customs and veterinary checks, from medicines to financial services, as the EU affably sits down with this prime minister or another one.
The 27 will legislate and institute unilaterally temporary arrangements which assure continuity where they need it, and cause us asymmetric difficulties where they can. And a UK government, which knows the efficacy of most of its contingency planning depends, to a greater or lesser degree on othersā actions out of its control, will then have to react ā no doubt with a mixture of inevitable compliance and bellicose retaliation.
We already see the next generation of fantasies out there, and itās now just a matter of time before a Tory leadership contender offers them publicly as the Houdini act.
[Post edited 17 Dec 2018 13:35]
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| The Countdown begins. on 14:24 - Dec 17 with 728 views | Jango |
| The Countdown begins. on 13:20 - Dec 17 by WarwickHunt |
Scare tactics - the last resort of a deluded and desperate PM.
It won't get through Parliament.
Edit:
From Sir Ivan Rogers, the UKās former ambassador to the EU.
The āno deal + ā fantasy is that if we just had the guts to walk away, refuse to sign the withdrawal agreement with the backstop in it, and withhold a good half of the money the prime minister promised this time last year, capitals, suddenly realising we were serious, would come running for a series of mini deals which assured full trading continuity in all key sectors on basically unchanged single market and customs union terms.
I donāt know what tablets these people are taking, but I must confess I wish I were on them. It will be said of them as it was said of the Bourbons, I think: āthey have learned nothing and they have forgotten nothingā.
The reality is that if the deal on the table falls apart because we have said ānoā, there will not be some smooth rapid suite of mini side deals ā from aviation to fisheries, from road haulage to data, from derivatives to customs and veterinary checks, from medicines to financial services, as the EU affably sits down with this prime minister or another one.
The 27 will legislate and institute unilaterally temporary arrangements which assure continuity where they need it, and cause us asymmetric difficulties where they can. And a UK government, which knows the efficacy of most of its contingency planning depends, to a greater or lesser degree on othersā actions out of its control, will then have to react ā no doubt with a mixture of inevitable compliance and bellicose retaliation.
We already see the next generation of fantasies out there, and itās now just a matter of time before a Tory leadership contender offers them publicly as the Houdini act.
[Post edited 17 Dec 2018 13:35]
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ONE of Britainās most respected former diplomats has exploded the Remainer myth that the UK would suffer shortages if it fails to get a deal with the EU. Sir Christopher Meyer, the former ambassador to the US, pointed out that international law āmandatesā the seamless movement of goods at borders.
He also expressed his exasperation with the ignorance and aggression of Remainers attacking the World Trade Deal option of relying on World Trade Organisation rules. Comparing their project fear campaign to the infamous Spanish Inquisition.
After a series of scare stories by Remainers, including insulin supplies for diabetics drying up, lorries being trapped for hours at the borders and even sandwiches being taken off the British menu because food will not be imported, Sir Christopher Tweeted out the specific international law which proves they were all fake.
He said: āWhat's this tosh about giant lorry parks after 'no-deal' Brexit? The WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement (ratified by 136, including EU, states in 2017) mandates seamless, hi-tech practices at the border.
āThe World Bank reported in 2016 that 98 percent of border traffic went unchecked.ā
The Tweet attracted a high level of abuse from Remain supporting social media trolls deployed to try to bully and intimidate Brexit supporters and drown out comments which reveal that no trade deal with the EU is the best option for Britain.
In response Sir Christopher said: āYou know when you've got the other side on the run. They take refuge in abuse.
āTrying to get people to grasp that there is merit in the WTO Brexit option is like trying to persuade the 17th century Inquisition that the Earth rotates around the Sun.ā
A paper by Professor Patrick Minford, an adviser to Margaret Thatcher and chairman of Economists for Free Trade, showed that the option means Britain would completely decouple from EU regulations leading to a boost to the Exchequer of Ā£80 billion a year as well as meaning the Ā£39 billion divorce bill would not have to be paid.
Meanwhile, former Harvard fellow Michael Burrage, also from Economists for Free Trade, showed that countries which trade with the EU on WTO terms do three times better than member states.
So thereās 2 highly respected former U.K. ambassadors, both with knighthoods, with 2 entirely different opinions on a no deal brexit. | | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:57 - Dec 17 with 707 views | LeonWasGod |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:24 - Dec 17 by Jango |
ONE of Britainās most respected former diplomats has exploded the Remainer myth that the UK would suffer shortages if it fails to get a deal with the EU. Sir Christopher Meyer, the former ambassador to the US, pointed out that international law āmandatesā the seamless movement of goods at borders.
He also expressed his exasperation with the ignorance and aggression of Remainers attacking the World Trade Deal option of relying on World Trade Organisation rules. Comparing their project fear campaign to the infamous Spanish Inquisition.
After a series of scare stories by Remainers, including insulin supplies for diabetics drying up, lorries being trapped for hours at the borders and even sandwiches being taken off the British menu because food will not be imported, Sir Christopher Tweeted out the specific international law which proves they were all fake.
He said: āWhat's this tosh about giant lorry parks after 'no-deal' Brexit? The WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement (ratified by 136, including EU, states in 2017) mandates seamless, hi-tech practices at the border.
āThe World Bank reported in 2016 that 98 percent of border traffic went unchecked.ā
The Tweet attracted a high level of abuse from Remain supporting social media trolls deployed to try to bully and intimidate Brexit supporters and drown out comments which reveal that no trade deal with the EU is the best option for Britain.
In response Sir Christopher said: āYou know when you've got the other side on the run. They take refuge in abuse.
āTrying to get people to grasp that there is merit in the WTO Brexit option is like trying to persuade the 17th century Inquisition that the Earth rotates around the Sun.ā
A paper by Professor Patrick Minford, an adviser to Margaret Thatcher and chairman of Economists for Free Trade, showed that the option means Britain would completely decouple from EU regulations leading to a boost to the Exchequer of Ā£80 billion a year as well as meaning the Ā£39 billion divorce bill would not have to be paid.
Meanwhile, former Harvard fellow Michael Burrage, also from Economists for Free Trade, showed that countries which trade with the EU on WTO terms do three times better than member states.
So thereās 2 highly respected former U.K. ambassadors, both with knighthoods, with 2 entirely different opinions on a no deal brexit. |
Christopher Meyer's been picked up on this before. It's not a 'deal'. The WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement apparently doesn't mandate anything; it provides a framework. One in which the current WTO Director General said his "highly unlikely" we'll be able to operate under immediately upon leaving (he said there wasn't sufficient time to prepare when he was interviewed back in August).
Economists for Free Trade appear to be a campaign group of nutjobs, paid stooges and climate change deniers.
Sorry, but this reads like a load of unsubstantiated bollox written in the Express. |  | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 16:50 - Dec 17 with 642 views | Highjack |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:12 - Dec 16 by rockinjk |
āGeorge Sorosā
That is where I donāt engage anymore. Bless you |
Open Britain, Best for Britain and the peopleās vote campaign are offshoots of and receive funding from Soros open society foundation which donates billions to activist groups worldwide so itās more than suitable to list him as a leader of the remain campaign. |  |
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| The Countdown begins. on 17:44 - Dec 17 with 613 views | Batterseajack |
| The Countdown begins. on 16:50 - Dec 17 by Highjack |
Open Britain, Best for Britain and the peopleās vote campaign are offshoots of and receive funding from Soros open society foundation which donates billions to activist groups worldwide so itās more than suitable to list him as a leader of the remain campaign. |
Which is fine as its open and transparent. Can you tell me who funds the organisations that reside in 55 & 57 Tufton Street?
55 Tufton Street
Global Warming Policy Foundation
Civitas
TaxPayersā Alliance
Business for Britain
Vote Leave
The European Foundation
UK2020
The New Culture Forum
57 Tufton Street
Centre for Policy Studies
Institute for Free Trade | | | |
| The Countdown begins. on 18:25 - Dec 17 with 584 views | sherpajacob |
| The Countdown begins. on 14:24 - Dec 17 by Jango |
ONE of Britainās most respected former diplomats has exploded the Remainer myth that the UK would suffer shortages if it fails to get a deal with the EU. Sir Christopher Meyer, the former ambassador to the US, pointed out that international law āmandatesā the seamless movement of goods at borders.
He also expressed his exasperation with the ignorance and aggression of Remainers attacking the World Trade Deal option of relying on World Trade Organisation rules. Comparing their project fear campaign to the infamous Spanish Inquisition.
After a series of scare stories by Remainers, including insulin supplies for diabetics drying up, lorries being trapped for hours at the borders and even sandwiches being taken off the British menu because food will not be imported, Sir Christopher Tweeted out the specific international law which proves they were all fake.
He said: āWhat's this tosh about giant lorry parks after 'no-deal' Brexit? The WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement (ratified by 136, including EU, states in 2017) mandates seamless, hi-tech practices at the border.
āThe World Bank reported in 2016 that 98 percent of border traffic went unchecked.ā
The Tweet attracted a high level of abuse from Remain supporting social media trolls deployed to try to bully and intimidate Brexit supporters and drown out comments which reveal that no trade deal with the EU is the best option for Britain.
In response Sir Christopher said: āYou know when you've got the other side on the run. They take refuge in abuse.
āTrying to get people to grasp that there is merit in the WTO Brexit option is like trying to persuade the 17th century Inquisition that the Earth rotates around the Sun.ā
A paper by Professor Patrick Minford, an adviser to Margaret Thatcher and chairman of Economists for Free Trade, showed that the option means Britain would completely decouple from EU regulations leading to a boost to the Exchequer of Ā£80 billion a year as well as meaning the Ā£39 billion divorce bill would not have to be paid.
Meanwhile, former Harvard fellow Michael Burrage, also from Economists for Free Trade, showed that countries which trade with the EU on WTO terms do three times better than member states.
So thereās 2 highly respected former U.K. ambassadors, both with knighthoods, with 2 entirely different opinions on a no deal brexit. |
The Ā£39bn is not a, payment for a, trade deal.
It is settlement of commitments and liabilities we had previously agreed to.
Davis, mcvey, Tim Martin and others are being fraudulent in stating it doesn't have to be paid in the event of no deal.
They are essentially saying let's do a runner from the restaurant, but still expect to be able to book a table anytime they want in the future.
P.S., wtf does having a,knighthood have to do with it? [Post edited 17 Dec 2018 18:27]
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