| Not all degrees worthwhile? 14:02 - Feb 5 with 9501 views | Professor |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42923529
Lisa made this point in another thread recently. I tend to agree that too many people go to university undertaking degrees that are arguable less worthwhile than an apprenticeship. I strongly advocate work-based learning that can be accredited towards qualifications, though many academics don't like this, why not work in civil engineering or business and study through work?
Any other thoughts? |  | | |  |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:23 - Feb 5 with 1141 views | exhmrc1 |
The problem isn't just one of subjects. Part of the problem was the opening up of universities to all and sundry. Pre 1990 universities were just that and polytechnics and technical colleges is what they were. Now everything is classed as universities when it shouldn't be. There are vast differences in entry standards between universities. Some require A*AA or higher whilst for some you can get in with far lower grades. Hence many who years ago would not have got into unis do so because of this change.
There are many very useful subjects beside science and engineering. Economics and Computer Science being examples but there are many courses which will probably not lead to the kind of future hoped for. | | | |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:25 - Feb 5 with 1151 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:21 - Feb 5 by perchrockjack |
Indeed money.
I believe university should be for exceptional talent and often it's not the case .
It's not fair on kids actually |
Don't agree with that Richie, Kids being Kids excel at different times/ages some early some later, many sports are the same as we often see.
If a Child/teenager wishes to go to Uni then there shouldn't be anything to stop them going for the above reason, pigeon holing a Childs academic development and growth is fundamentally wrong, I appreciate that some may go to Uni for the wrong reasons, but if they have achieved the qualifications to go there then there's not a lot can be done. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:33 - Feb 5 with 1147 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 15:18 - Feb 5 by monmouth |
Let me balance it by saying that some students are absolutely bloody excellent. Breathtaking in fact. The ones that really want to be there and really want to push themselves to learn. In essence the only ones that should be there. |
My lads testament to that Monny, he went to Cardiff Met and did a foundation course, which then got him into to Swansea Uni, during that time he lived at home and travelled not far granted, but he was never and still not into the Drinking culture I can't remember the last time he had a drink apart from a glass of Prosecco at Christmas and New Yr, he studied really hard to get what he's got, it hasn't been easy for him with his hearing difficulties, but done it he has. | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:37 - Feb 5 with 1139 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:23 - Feb 5 by exhmrc1 |
The problem isn't just one of subjects. Part of the problem was the opening up of universities to all and sundry. Pre 1990 universities were just that and polytechnics and technical colleges is what they were. Now everything is classed as universities when it shouldn't be. There are vast differences in entry standards between universities. Some require A*AA or higher whilst for some you can get in with far lower grades. Hence many who years ago would not have got into unis do so because of this change.
There are many very useful subjects beside science and engineering. Economics and Computer Science being examples but there are many courses which will probably not lead to the kind of future hoped for. |
My degree was in Economics mate, and its value is exactly equal to that of those who work alongside me who have degrees in Music Tech, Mathematics, some Art thing and Sociology. There is no discernable value unless you went to a top 10 university. Its a piece of paper, nothing more. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:40 - Feb 5 with 1139 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:23 - Feb 5 by exhmrc1 |
The problem isn't just one of subjects. Part of the problem was the opening up of universities to all and sundry. Pre 1990 universities were just that and polytechnics and technical colleges is what they were. Now everything is classed as universities when it shouldn't be. There are vast differences in entry standards between universities. Some require A*AA or higher whilst for some you can get in with far lower grades. Hence many who years ago would not have got into unis do so because of this change.
There are many very useful subjects beside science and engineering. Economics and Computer Science being examples but there are many courses which will probably not lead to the kind of future hoped for. |
That's a very good post and points, but its obviously helped many my lad included and helped lots get very good jobs, although for a good proportion it hasn't unfortunately and despite working/studying very hard to get their degrees have ended up in jobs that don't make use of their obviously talents and abilities. | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:46 - Feb 5 with 1136 views | longlostjack |
I am sure that a good apprenticeship could be more valuable than a ropy degree promoted by an educational establishment for it's own ends. Until private schools start advocating the benefits of apprenticeships for some of their pupils however, nothing will change. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:48 - Feb 5 with 1130 views | monmouth |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:33 - Feb 5 by max936 |
My lads testament to that Monny, he went to Cardiff Met and did a foundation course, which then got him into to Swansea Uni, during that time he lived at home and travelled not far granted, but he was never and still not into the Drinking culture I can't remember the last time he had a drink apart from a glass of Prosecco at Christmas and New Yr, he studied really hard to get what he's got, it hasn't been easy for him with his hearing difficulties, but done it he has. |
Excellent Max, good on him. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:03 - Feb 5 with 1113 views | yescomeon |
It depends what one means by worthwhile. Financially I imagine almost anyone would be best off doing an apprenticeship. I'm certain I would have been, and I studied a hard science, but that depends on the person in question knowing what they want to do, at 18. You don't know what you want at that age, or if you think you do you might not want that 10 years later. There is more to going to university than as a route to getting a job, or at least there should be, it should be about exploring your interests, learning more about a topic, the expanding of ones mind.
The university I'm at now puts a hell of a lot of focus on giving students skills for going out into industry it seems. A hell of a lot different to my undergraduate at Swansea, which was mostly theoretical pen and paper work. I've found, and I'm still in academia, that skills are way more important than knowledge (you'd want both obviously). If you can code and you know stats or numerical analysis you could go into almost any field even in the hard sciences at a graduate or post graduate level with relatively little prior knowledge of those fields. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:07 - Feb 5 with 1103 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 18:48 - Feb 5 by monmouth |
Excellent Max, good on him. |
He just come in from the Gym miserable sod he is, can't look at him nevermind speak to him on times, moaning to his Mother about his Tea now, not gonna end well that one  | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:45 - Feb 5 with 1063 views | perchrockjack |
By exceptional ,I mean above average ability.
it's what universities should be about | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:07 - Feb 5 with 1043 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 19:45 - Feb 5 by perchrockjack |
By exceptional ,I mean above average ability.
it's what universities should be about |
University's shouldn't been about that, it should be the broad church that it is for the reason's I've mentioned, its doubtful that my Lad would have got even an interview for the Job he got without his degree and even though he's my lad, I wouldn't say he's above average he just worked very hard at what he had to do, the more he learnt the better he got, so the joe averages of this World shouldn't be handicapped from entering the University system IMHO. | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:11 - Feb 5 with 1039 views | perchrockjack |
But university surely is all about the best talent .
Your lad has talent and fully justified his place but I don't think kids without the ability should be pressurised into going to university .
Schools want nothing more than to boast of how many pupils go to University | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:13 - Feb 5 with 1036 views | Neath_Jack |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:07 - Feb 5 by max936 |
University's shouldn't been about that, it should be the broad church that it is for the reason's I've mentioned, its doubtful that my Lad would have got even an interview for the Job he got without his degree and even though he's my lad, I wouldn't say he's above average he just worked very hard at what he had to do, the more he learnt the better he got, so the joe averages of this World shouldn't be handicapped from entering the University system IMHO. |
I agree with you Max, there's a lot of snobbery about when it comes to University and how courses are supposedly getting easier and easier every year.
We've had graduates who come to us who are absolutely useless, and others who have gone on to be experts in their fields. But the same can be said about apprentices as well, good and bad in everything.
I also agree that there should be more emphasis on more vocational studies as mentioned by someone else.
Schools shouldn't be teaching RE, maths lessons shouldn't include algebra, what they need to learn about is mortgages and interest rates as an example. |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:15 - Feb 5 with 1026 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:11 - Feb 5 by perchrockjack |
But university surely is all about the best talent .
Your lad has talent and fully justified his place but I don't think kids without the ability should be pressurised into going to university .
Schools want nothing more than to boast of how many pupils go to University |
No they certainly shouldn't be pressurised 100%, but if its the will of the child then they shouldn't be prevented from going through what is basically elitism.
I'm not saying I'm right its just my considered opinion. | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:16 - Feb 5 with 1018 views | Darran |
I’ve got City & Gulids in engineering.  |  |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:17 - Feb 5 with 1015 views | exhmrc1 |
The real problem is the difference in entry standards to get the same degree. Bath and London Metropolitan both offer Bsc Mathematics. To get into Bath you need A*AA whilst you can get into London Met with CCE | | | |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:17 - Feb 5 with 1022 views | perchrockjack |
And that is very fair Steve
You re good to debate with ,fair play .
We re only simply Jacks aren't we | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:21 - Feb 5 with 1015 views | Neath_Jack |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:16 - Feb 5 by Darran |
I’ve got City & Gulids in engineering. |
And a masters in Bullshit | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:24 - Feb 5 with 1011 views | perchrockjack |
Steve and Jay
Hey, I agree with your sentiments | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:25 - Feb 5 with 1003 views | Darran |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:21 - Feb 5 by Neath_Jack |
And a masters in Bullshit |
Prick.  | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:26 - Feb 5 with 1009 views | yescomeon |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:13 - Feb 5 by Neath_Jack |
I agree with you Max, there's a lot of snobbery about when it comes to University and how courses are supposedly getting easier and easier every year.
We've had graduates who come to us who are absolutely useless, and others who have gone on to be experts in their fields. But the same can be said about apprentices as well, good and bad in everything.
I also agree that there should be more emphasis on more vocational studies as mentioned by someone else.
Schools shouldn't be teaching RE, maths lessons shouldn't include algebra, what they need to learn about is mortgages and interest rates as an example. |
Maths shouldn't teach algebra? You've got to be kidding? I think I know the point you're getting at but surely you can just lump all that life skills stuff into a general studies course. And some schools do that anyway. | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:35 - Feb 5 with 973 views | Dr_Winston |
Over the years I have seen literally hundreds of graduates get their degrees and basically go "Now what?", almost as if getting a degree was the end game, rather than a means to a vocation. When they came in to see me they had absolutely no idea what they wanted to do. Many of them would have been better off not bothering.
I believe that additional emphasis needs to go into career planning before these courses even start, even to the point of including it as part of the ACAS process. What sort of work will it lead to, how likely is it that such work can be found in the areas that the candidates are willing to go to.
Sure, circumstances can change over three years, but at least it'll start the thought processes off. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:41 - Feb 5 with 963 views | perchrockjack |
Employers like graduates with science degrees as they feel it evidences an ability to analyse and problem solve .
Maths ,physics,Chemistry still seen as Best | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:43 - Feb 5 with 959 views | max936 |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 20:13 - Feb 5 by Neath_Jack |
I agree with you Max, there's a lot of snobbery about when it comes to University and how courses are supposedly getting easier and easier every year.
We've had graduates who come to us who are absolutely useless, and others who have gone on to be experts in their fields. But the same can be said about apprentices as well, good and bad in everything.
I also agree that there should be more emphasis on more vocational studies as mentioned by someone else.
Schools shouldn't be teaching RE, maths lessons shouldn't include algebra, what they need to learn about is mortgages and interest rates as an example. |
100% | |
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| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:45 - Feb 5 with 946 views | Cooperman |
| Not all degrees worthwhile? on 21:41 - Feb 5 by perchrockjack |
Employers like graduates with science degrees as they feel it evidences an ability to analyse and problem solve .
Maths ,physics,Chemistry still seen as Best |
Certainly the case for engineering and manufacturing. Not so relevant in arts and design, agriculture or environment. |  |
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